[Game Over] Open 743 - The Crown of Misery

[Auro]

Leodanny (L-3)

: Thor665, Persivul, Auro, Dunnstral

rb (L-4)

: Leodanny, Something_Smart, DarkLightA

DarkLightA (L-5)

: Nako, bristep123

Persivul (L-6)

: Lamees

Dunnstral (L-6)

: rb

Egix96, Malakitty

I remember I was null to you after my first Thor exchange, what changed since then?

[Lamees]

How on earth is Leodanny a town read?!

Why is he scum? I get the "not cotributing" part, but that isnt alignment indicative. I town read him because he isn't pushing for a scum wincon imo. Like you get players who troll around and don't contribute/lurk. But they still push aggressively for mislynches as scum (see notmafia in that game we played together) and kind of what rb was doing earlier this game. Leodanny isnt doing that.

[Lamees]

Leodanny (L-3)

: Thor665, Persivul, Auro, Dunnstral

rb (L-4)

: Leodanny, Something_Smart, DarkLightA

DarkLightA (L-5)

: NotNova, bristep123

Persivul (L-6)

: Lamees

Dunnstral (L-6)

: rb

Egix96, Malakitty

I remember I was null to you after my first Thor exchange, what changed since then?

Posts like 818 feel scummy. But mostly just gut feel. I'm obviously wrong as there cannot be that many scum in the game. So will need more time or flips to lessen my scum pool.

[Auro]

Why is he scum? I get the "not cotributing" part, but that isnt alignment indicative. I town read him because he isn't pushing for a scum wincon imo. Like you get players who troll around and don't contribute/lurk. But they still push aggressively for mislynches as scum (see notmafia in that game we played together) and kind of what rb was doing earlier this game. Leodanny isnt doing that.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=77730

I was town in this game. 0verki11 was scum, who was a newbie, and was also playing really meh.
I reasoned, "Oh if he's scum he's not playing to any agenda! This looks like newbie town", and stubbornly refused to lynch him, even though night kills pointed to him.
Turns out he WAS scum just not playing to any win-con, with almost no presence/co-ordination with his scum buddy, and that threw me off.
So these kind of "newbie" players are totally capable of hiding behind that and coasting along, Lamees.

Pushing aggressively is a good thing, and it makes someone easier to sort. Hard-lurking and doing jack isn't. Especially when you know that said slot isn't going to produce any significantly AI content in the future as well.

[Egix96]

What happened to your "hot take"?

It was a reaction test.

Reactions just from me or from the others as well?
I'm assuming you either towned or nulled me on my reaction, since I'm not in your scumpool.
What would you have expected scum!Auro to say in that situation? What did I say that you don't think comes from scum?

- Reactions from you mainly.
- Your reaction suggests to me that you're unlikely to be scumbuddies with the DLA slot.
- Since I'm not you, I can't really say what I would have expected scum!you to say. But I'm thinking it would have at least been different in some way from what you actually wrote.
- To quote you:

I don't see any benefit in planning to have her self-vote and then suddenly have me distance from her after townreading and defending that slot, do you?

A lot of fuss, over DVa self-voting, scumclaiming and open wolfing? What do you expect town!Auro to say in this situation? I mean if I didn't want to lose my scumbuddy DVa, I wouldn't have let her done the self-voting crap anyway.

VOTE: DarkLightA, L-2

The first sentence reads pretty genuine to me. Saying that you wouldn't have let her done the "self-voting crap" is sort of a WIFOM-y argument, but you calling it crap gives me a vibe that you have a genuine disdain for that strategy.

[Auro]

Posts like 818 feel scummy.

Can see why you think "I don't want this player in LyLo" is scummy, but in my last scum game I did exactly that -- I took Leodanny to LyLo, the other guy just quick-voted Leodanny. This is also kinda why I was fine with Snowbeast as a lynch in Robocalypse, btw.

[Lamees]

He hasnt been that lurky. He has defended a town read and also pushed a scum read. That's not too bad imo. Being day 1 with 13 players, there's more chance to come off as lurky. I've seen so many prod dodges this game alone lol.

Look at malakitty's recent post. Keep in mind there were questions that was asked of her. What did she hop in and decide to comment on?

The fact that there are not great pushes being made on leodanny is kind of strengthening my town read of him.

[Egix96]

Why Darklight?

In all honestly, it's mainly because of his predecessor's words and actions. Admittedly though, if he is scum, I can kinda empathise with him since it's not his fault that DVa had a bit of a freakout.

[Egix96]

Only if you join us.

can I join, even if you’re not my type

Who’s paying?

I find it odd that you two chose to specifically comment on the whole "get a room" thing when there were some other, more pertinent things that you could have talked about instead.

[Auro]

Look at malakitty's recent post. Keep in mind there were questions that was asked of her. What did she hop in and decide to comment on?

Fair point, I went and checked too, I see quite a lot of prodging.
I was thinking it's a bit mean to wagon her for content when she did say she was really busy IRL and would chime in later.
Adding her to my lynchpool for the day nonetheless.

[Egix96]

To those without a vote (Egix96, Malakitty, Dunnstral, Auro):

Read Leodanny's ISO and either vote there, or explain why you won't.

Doesn't seem to me like he's playing too differently from Newbie 1898. At the same time though, I'm thinking that if he were town, he'd be able to... how should I put this...

do more

by virtue of being more experienced than last time.
I'll finish off my catchup before deciding my vote.

[Lamees]

Yeah I've made up my mind. We should lynch malakitty today.

VOTE: malakitty

I specifically asked her who her scum reads are and it was page top so I don't buy the "didnt see it I was busy" excuse, not that she isnt busy, which I think she is. Also she read and responded to a post in a thor/auro exchange (lol) so she's definitely reading the thread.

I'm thinking scum would have little to no motivation to mention scum reads while busy/limited activity because as scum you have to make up scum reads, as everyone you want lynched is conftown. (Besides bussing obviously). So she rightfully ignored the question.

Pair this with that time in the thread where she got like 2 votes on her and then was defending herself and active during that stage. After the momentum died so did her activity.

[Egix96]

his

(Egix's)

play so far has been a bit underwhelming

I'd be interested if you could elaborate on this. But if you think I'm scum and you don't want to give me any ideas, then that's fine too.

[Egix96]

Town-
Leodanny

Null-
Bristep123
Dunnstral
Nako
Egix96

Scum-
Auro
Persivul
Malakitty
Rb
Something_smart
DLA
Thor

And I though my scum pool had too many names...

[Auro]

I'd be interested if you could elaborate on this.

Well, I got a feeling you were a bit more passive and sideline-y, for example your initial Leo vote because of the wagon felt kinda lazy, and I was getting scummy pings from your "reaction test" as well. I'm satisfied by your response detailing the reaction test though, I'll re-evaluate your ISO.

The obv-townness from 1893 is kinda missing I feel, but in both my games with you I was scum so I admit there's definitely a bias here. I noticed you have one recently completed scumgame as well, I'll have a look at that too.

But if you think I'm scum and you don't want to give me any ideas, then that's fine too.

Lol, I actually think the whole "My thought process will give scum!you ideas" philosophy is bad.
I always believe it's best for everyone to be transparent.

[Lamees]

Town-
Leodanny

Null-
Bristep123
Dunnstral
Nako
Egix96

Scum-
Auro
Persivul
Malakitty
Rb
Something_smart
DLA
Thor

And I though my scum pool had too many names...

Lol some games just are like that I guess, where everyone is scummy. We need to get that lucky break some time in the later stages which gets us some conf towns and we can move from there. Otherwise it's just gamble after gamble until that final 50/50 decision at lylo.

[Auro]

VOTE: Malakitty

Agree with Lamees.

[Auro]

But if you think I'm scum and you don't want to give me any ideas, then that's fine too.

Wait,

hot take

- was that a reaction test too?

[Egix96]

But if you think I'm scum and you don't want to give me any ideas, then that's fine too.

Wait,

hot take

- was that a reaction test too?

Actually there is a very specific reason why I included that sentence, but unfortunately I cannot detail it at this present time.

I'm currently not sure whether to vote Mala or Leo... I'll see how I feel later.

[Auro]

Actually there is a very specific reason why I included that sentence, but unfortunately I cannot detail it at this present time.

Hmm, I think I have a guess, correct me if I'm stepping in the wrong direction
If it is what I'm thinking I'll throw some town points your way.

[Persivul]

If scum knows there is an angel and also a priest (highest chance to roll) in the game then it makes sense for them to choose both immortal and ghost. So this gives our town power roles not as much effect.

It also says if a ghost were to frame a town player, that player will die when smite is used. Only person I remember was insisting that I name a target is persivul.

VOTE: persivul

Read again. When I read about the ghost, I retracted the idea of you naming a target before night. I then checked with mod about a lynch scenario, and IIRC mod verified that the smite from a lynch takes place in twilight, and so could not be affected by a ghost.

[Thor665]

Thor, you think RB's slot is iffy, don't you think that flip is better?

I don't think it's better, and there's more support for Leodanny.
You town read him - why are you trying to redirect from a null/scum read of yours to a town read?

Thor, I want to talk about this more - I think it's a horrendous idea to gate a cop check to one or two people, since if there's a cop it's almost guaranteed that we have a framer/GF or both.

Why were you happy at that suggestion?

You say this like GFs aren't near constant issues with Cops in basically every game.
I'm happy with the Cop targeting.
I'm happy with the Cop targeting me or a top scumspect of mine.
If I opposed any part of that then I'd need to oppose the COp targeting anyone.
Do you fear Framer/GF so much you think the Cop shouldn't target? Unless your answer is 'yes' I fail to see your issue here.

Why is he scum? I get the "not cotributing" part, but that isnt alignment indicative. I town read him because he isn't pushing for a scum wincon imo. Like you get players who troll around and don't contribute/lurk. But they still push aggressively for mislynches as scum (see notmafia in that game we played together) and kind of what rb was doing earlier this game. Leodanny isnt doing that.

He's currently voting the biggest wagon that isn't him.
Before the wagon on him he was on the biggest wagon.
His vote isn't doing nothing.

[Auro]

I don't think it's better, and there's more support for Leodanny.
You town read him - why are you trying to redirect from a null/scum read of yours to a town read?

I do think RB is town -- however, I felt a possible inconsistency in your read on the slot versus your vote, so I called that out. Similar to how I'd question a case on a scumread if I felt it inconsistent, I can also question why someone isn't pushing a townread of mine if it looks potentially inconsistent with their previous sayings and clarify.

[rb]

Town-
Leodanny

Null-
Bristep123
Dunnstral
Nako
Egix96

Scum-
Auro
Persivul
Malakitty
Rb
Something_smart
DLA
Thor

lol

[rb]

is auro pocketing me