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maybe scum is just trying to look townie instead of making other people look scummy

i agree about the claim. is a scum backup bulletproof possible? that wouldn't make any sense right? the mod wouldnt want to fake out the scumteam with a red herring like that. (it's really really not likely that a scum backup bulletproof was used to warn scum about the vig, right?) so either kerset made up a really good lie or she's town after all

ready2rock wrote:

Fidget wrote:Does scum Kerset need midway on the elimination table? What's the point of that scumread? I disagree with it highly and I don't find it very strong reasoning, but does that make them scum?

And whats the idea behind the Backup Bulletproof claim? Why would Kerset want to trick us into thinking it's Xylo with all the traitor spec?!

I would vote Kerset in a heartbeat if I could work out the answers to these

These are things keeping me from reading this slot as scum as well

Ready2rock reveal that unto me which is hidden!

Oh, you don't know either. Yeah I think it was you actually who first mentioned it making no sense for Kerset to want us to believe we're in Xylo prematurely. A real puzzler that one

I legitimately just rechecked my role PM to make sure it wasn't me that's how lost I am

In post 851, CantHateAPuppy wrote:i agree about the claim. is a scum backup bulletproof possible? that wouldn't make any sense right? the mod wouldnt want to fake out the scumteam with a red herring like that. (it's really really not likely that a scum backup bulletproof was used to warn scum about the vig, right?) so either kerset made up a really good lie or she's town after all

No you're right I think Kerset is either a strong scum PR (I mean.. it could be full bulletproof I guess) or is telling the truth

Maybe the best power scum gets in this setup is the freedom to have a good claim?

I didn't mean to send that yet

What i mean is, they somehow were aware there was an extra spot in the PRs. Like, extra room to fit in a claim. IDFK

I suppose scum!Puppy doesn't need to scumread me to win, he can win in spite of having to 180 on me via midway already wanting to get rid of my slot

But I don't know if I could pick Puppy over Kerset with a clear conscience. I don't find him scummier if I ignore the claim, I think Kerset is

I think 483 and 484 is a townie sequence for BM. He unvotes Ydrasse to check on whether there could exist two investigative roles, and he immediately revotes when he finds that to be unlikely. I don't think that is really necessary to do as scum.

if we're going to do the setup spec again... i think gunsmith/vig + vanillas everywhere else is balanced "enough". i would probably expect one other wrinkle, because umlaut likes that and gunsmith/vig probably needs some degree of scum counter, just something small to rebalance. i don't think that'd be a traitor, whether im willing to bet the whole game on that is something im waffling on

but kerset's claim as-is isn't strong enough, i think, to override thes ort of normal work of playing the game and trying to read people. it's not a slam-dunk like r2r's claim

In post 853, Fidget wrote:I legitimately just rechecked my role PM to make sure it wasn't me that's how lost I am

Well? Was it you?

I will stop eating sweets for a month if there's a traitor. A month! There's no way there is and I refuse to accept it. Town only gets 1 miselimination in that setup

In post 858, ready2rock wrote:

In post 853, Fidget wrote:I legitimately just rechecked my role PM to make sure it wasn't me that's how lost I am

Well? Was it you?

No. I almost wish it was cause I'd at least not be confused anymore

Why does bulletproof backup imply traitor so strongly? Are there other possibilities, and we're just running under the assumption of traitor in an abundance of caution? Or is there some kind of balance/setup standard with that role that I'm not aware of?

Kerset said that bulletproof is unusual for scum to have, except for scum traitors. If Kerset is town speaking the truth abt their claim, that implies he is backing up a bulletproof scumteam player (or it's a red herring)

I think it makes no sense to have a town player get stronger upon 1 of 2 scum dying in a 10 player setup, but that might just be me cause idk balance

Are there any other common bulletproof roles aside from traitor and scum?

For the record I think a red herring is definitely a possibility

Also if Kerset is backing up a bulletproof scum player, then upon the vigilante shooting the bulletproof scum (the only case in which that power can be sort of helpful), Kerset's roleclaim is probably just going to be an extra headache for that scum player to deal with. Why would there be a town bulletproof with a town backup bulletproof?

I think overall making a town player that directly backs up a scum players role, and the scum player cannot deny it (in the event they get shot), is just nerfing scum further

So not only is there a gunsmith/1-shot vig, but scum have their one sorta power (bulletproof) get nerfed by a town backup who will call them out

I think the most balanced sounding setups are either Kerset is a townie red herring designed to confuse us (+ scum power) or Kerset is just scum lying here and there are no more town PRs, Kerset is a scum PR

And above all I don't think there's a traitor cause if scum figures out their identity the game is practically over, town can only make 1 mistake

crazy paranoid aliens-built-the-pyramids-using-chemtrails-and-gay-frogs: r2r is a scum 1-shot vig, which is why the setup has 10 players. so then the backup bulletproof is. hm. never mind, back to your scheduled programming

In post 862, ready2rock wrote:Are there any other common bulletproof roles aside from traitor and scum?

For the record I think a red herring is definitely a possibility

Well if there is, in fact, a full bulletproof they'd have to be scum at this point since nobody is claiming it

The only 1-shot BP I'm familiar with is back when the newbie setup had one. It was town aligned.

In post 837, Fidget wrote:I see three ways this could go down (obv assuming midway is town), A.) we eliminate Puppy or Kerset, they're scum, yay

B.) we eliminate Puppy or Kerset, we go to Xylo and I would then know which one of them is scum and somehow I've got to prove it to try and save the game

or C.) We eliminate me first and you can use my input to potentially aide you in Xylo

I am not very excited at the thought of B happening

Actually, why do you post it? I don't see how your pov helps us, it is just lamist thing to do.

vig is town-exclusive role

Kerset wrote:[quote="In [url=https:<em class="Highlight" style="padding: 1px; box-shadow: rgb(229, 229, 229) 1px 1px; border-radius: 3px; -webkit-print-color-adjust: exact; background-color: rgb(255, 0, 0); color: rgb(0, 0, 205); font-style: inherit;">//</em>forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=12076640#p12076640]post 837[/url], Fidget"]I see three ways this could go down (obv assuming midway is town), A.) we eliminate Puppy or Kerset, they're scum, yay

B.) we eliminate Puppy or Kerset, we go to Xylo and I would then know which one of them is scum and somehow I've got to prove it to try and save the game

or C.) We eliminate me first and you can use my input to potentially aide you in Xylo

I am not very excited at the thought of B happening

Actually, why do you post it? I don't see how your pov helps us, it is just lamist thing to do.[/quote]That's my explanation for why I'm hesitant to vote

if I'm not the elimination today I'm gonna have to deal with the possibility of B happening so I have to either get it right confidently or let it be me first

Well if absolutely nobody seems to share my traitor feeling then, i guess i am wrong and there is only one scum left. Aside of traitor bulletproof is also given to serial killers but they can't exist in 10p normal.

In post 865, Fidget wrote:

In post 862, ready2rock wrote:Are there any other common bulletproof roles aside from traitor and scum?

For the record I think a red herring is definitely a possibility

Well if there is, in fact, a full bulletproof they'd have to be scum at this point since nobody is claiming it

The only 1-shot BP I'm familiar with is back when the newbie setup had one. It was town aligned.

I was thinking a town BP wouldn't claim so that a) they might draw the NK (unlikely though in this case since I'm still alive) and b) people might think they're scum bulletproof and they get miselim'ed

Again, setup spec is very much not my domain

Eh I think your first reason is a pretty good one for them to out. I see what you mean though, normally they'd want to stay hidden

eh kerset probably claimed because she genuinely thought it was lylo

Sort of, it was cause R2r was obviously going to die next. Although Kerset did think we were in Xylo yeah

In post 718, Kerset wrote:

In post 709, CantHateAPuppy wrote:it's definitely just one scum. setup doesn't make sense otherwise. it's probably gunsmith/1-shot vig vs. two scum, maybe with some other minor twist since this is umlaut

(x) Doubt

Vig will be tonights target, so i can reveal that i am backup bulletproof. Bulletproof is usually given to traitors to protect them from scum kills, so from design standpoint there is like 90% chance for one scum + traitor remaining.

Midway what is your puppy read? You never spoke about it.