Mafiascum.net

In post 849, Gypyx wrote:I mean, there's a reason my signature says bottom text

In post 851, bob3141 wrote:is this the top

In post 852, Battle Mage wrote:

In post 849, Gypyx wrote:I mean, there's a reason my signature says bottom text

I had assumed that was a reference to something much more sordid.

In post 854, Gypyx wrote:

In post 852, Battle Mage wrote:

In post 849, Gypyx wrote:I mean,

there's a reason

my signature says bottom text

I had assumed that was a reference to something much more sordid.

Well no that's

just a random signature

, you thought it was a reference to what?

In post 856, Tayl0r Swift wrote:wait am i right in thinking that menal shaded me for my RVS vote on shelly and then proceeded to join me on the shelly wagon? hmm i guess maybe im missing something in the 14 pages i havent read yet

In post 860, Battle Mage wrote:would people prefer to run up a bunch of people asap, or to just no-lunch today? i'm getting frustrated we feel so far from a consensus.

In post 860, Battle Mage wrote:would people prefer to run up a bunch of people asap, or to just no-lunch today? i'm getting frustrated we feel so far from a consensus.

In post 221, piisirrational wrote:If you want a TL;DR of the above, it's basically:

Townleans: Battle Mage
Scumleans: Noraa, Menalque
Nulls: Everyone else

In post 862, Tayl0r Swift wrote:

In post 860, Battle Mage wrote:would people prefer to run up a bunch of people asap, or to just no-lunch today? i'm getting frustrated we feel so far from a consensus.

this is a bad post and you should feel bad for making it

In post 865, Noraa wrote:im not caught up at all and I'm not really sure when I will be but I'll try to get caught up soon

In post 868, Battle Mage wrote:

In post 865, Noraa wrote:im not caught up at all and I'm not really sure when I will be but I'll try to get caught up soon

dude, please at least read my long-ass post specifically to you, it took me like minutes to write

In post 832, Battle Mage wrote:Dear Noraa,

I'd like you to read this post carefully, as I'm going to extend a proverbial olive branch to you, in the knowledge that it's possible you might be town. I'm only doing this once, and to be clear, I'm not doing so to try and make you townread me, nor is this an attempt to judge your alignment. I'm communicating with you 'out of character' to try and be helpful and constructive to your development, as I do when I'm an SE player in a newbie game.

I'm doing so because if you're town, I don't want you to leave this game with the feeling of "damn, that BM was so scummy, it was all his fault, I didn't get any enjoyment or educational value from that experience at all". Even if you're scum, as a new player, it would be preferable if you leave this game having gained some valuable experience and knowledge about expectations of town players.

My head says you're giving off lots of textbook scumtells, and like Ico, I'm slightly biased towards eliminating you early in the knowledge you might be town who distracts from eliminating scum and basically a liability at endgame. My heart says you're probably just town - I had a similar experience with a newbie (in a newbie game) a couple months ago which ended pretty badly, and he ended up being town.

Please therefore take this advice, and it is only my opinion from my own experience, in good faith. You are free to think I'm scum before, during and after, but please actually read this and take on board.

1. You and I have no personal beef. I did put you under significant pressure early in the game, and would not have done so had this been a newbie game. However, because this is a normal game, I treat everyone as having a reasonable level of experience by default. You felt I tunnel-visioned you, but I didn't. I tested you, partly because I felt you were newer and more likely to slip up if you were scum. Is it exploitative? Yes, but outside the road to rome, I've always considered everyone fair-game. You are free to look at other completed games of mine, to see that it's just an approach I use - and I do so regardless of alignment, so it's neither an inherent scumtell or towntell.

2. Pretending to tunnel-vision to put pressure on somebody is often good. Actually tunnel-visioning somebody is bad. However, I can say that even as an experienced veteran, I have tunnel-visioned and normally done very badly as a result. In one large theme game, I single-handedly cost town the game by tunnel-visioning. I don't claim to be the world's best mafia player, but I've played a lot of games over the years, and I try hard to improve. Nowadays I'm much more chilled and try to continually re-evaluate people. It doesn't really matter if I get it right first time, the goal is to get the right answer in the end, and if that means admitting my earlier suspicions were wrong, so be it. On a personal level, if you all you do in a game is attack one player, and that player ends up being town, you've essentially just been a detriment to the town. Giving opinions on other players means you make a bigger contribution to the town wincon. Throwing around terms like "confscum" won't do you any favours in terms of building credibility. Saying things like "I think bm is basically a confscum(at least in my head) which is why imma tunnel some more and hopefully get a good case on him bc I want a bm lim today" is obviously problematic for me, because it's acknowledging that you are focussed on trying to create something to prove yourself right, rather than looking at things objectively, and assuming I'm town in this case and unlikely to actually be lunched, it risks making you a redundant player who is not playing for the town and should be policy-elimmed. If you try to actually solve my slot by asking me questions and engaging with me, you'll find it fruitful and insightful. Otherwise, I'm not motivated to engage because you have already made your mind up.

3. You're right not to just give up, but keep an open mind. When Golden told you to abandon your BM-scumread because nobody else agrees with you, I think you were justified in standing by it. Just because nobody agrees with you, doesn't mean you're wrong, and there are scum in this game who will try to influence you, so having a backbone is a good thing. However, what if you're wrong, and I'm not scum? It's important to keep an open mind because, let's say I flip town - what then? I don't think you will want to go and re-read the whole game again. Also, if I'm town, you focussing only on me means that scum can get away with more, and distracts the rest of the town from doing good work. In other words, the key is striking a balance - suspect people but also keep looking and re-evaluating as you go. People will take you much more seriously if they think you are actively scumhunting, rather than trying to find things to confirm your own presumptions. Additionally, even if you're right about me, you're not gaining anything by trying to elim me today because it won't happen - so if I was scum, you'd be better off trying to pick off my partner(s). Crucially, your job as town is not to "prove yourself correct" but to eliminate scum.

The reality is, as I've already claimed, I'm town in this game. But being wrong about my slot is fine. I just ask kindly that you engage with other things going on and make a wider contribution than just focussing entirely on me, which isn't productive for you or anybody else.

I hope this is helpful, and even if you aren't able to read it in good faith now, it's something you can return to after the game as part of a 'lessons learnt' exercise.

Kind regards,

BM

In post 799, TheGoldenParadox wrote:looking at a {shelly, ico, x} scumteam rn but i think that flipping shelly and observing their interactions will be super helpful. if shelly flips scum i'm confident in ico!scum as well and if shelly flips town i'd go to a TL on ico