In post 847, Amélie wrote:If todays choices are Bugspray and Lunar Martian, I actually prefer Lunar Martian over Bug spray now. The claim is a really strange role that doesn't seem like a scum fake claim to me.
You had me as Town, but now that you prefer bugs over me suddenly bugs is Town and you think I'm Mafia? That's very odd and unexpected. I don't understand.
Also, ER is OutWorldER, I think. That's what I meant anyway. I saw other people calling someone ER and assumed it was them.
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:26 am
by Luca Blight
Amelie’s reads have made absolutely no sense all game.
On what basis is ORAM a townread?
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:30 am
by Luca Blight
And just because the role claim isn’t fake doesn’t mean they’re not scum; a backup neighbour could be either alignment.
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:59 am
by Momrangal
Someone said earlier that bugs was a creative player. As a backup neigbor, what couldn't they come up with a better back-up fakeclaim?
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:02 am
by Lunar Martian
In post 854, Momrangal wrote:Someone said earlier that bugs was a creative player. As a backup neigbor, what couldn't they come up with a better back-up fakeclaim?
In post 779, Grendel wrote:I'd say you're allergic to me lol. If you can think of a reason every single post a player makes is scummy then you're trying very hard to make the player in question look scummy in your mind.
If this is where it stands then im not sure if theres much point in me engaging you this game.
You asked about why I said "if you're both town then chill out" w/regards to the Lunar Vs Luca thing. Its a means of discouraging self-destructive town tendencies, its a net neutral as far as telling scum it i think? "if you're both town" just appeals to a player's better nature in general. I use the phrase pretty regularly in most games i play.
The bolded is what I find unsettling in this post. My Grendel scum read is definitely still there.
In post 779, Grendel wrote:That interesting b/c the whole "keeping up with the game, and summarizing whats happening" is a crutch i leaned in hard on when i was inexperienced scum. Players are less liekly to turn on you when you say mostly uncontroversial things as a newer player in site meta. I will have to read AGambling Pigs posts agian as I dont recall them v well.
They had only 5 posts so I'm not sure it really meant much.
In post 780, Grendel wrote:"Quick lets flip this inactive slot before we get a replacement!" Froggking looking really town if AGB slot turns out to be mafia.
This is a super bad way to describe this and makes Frogsterking look particularly bad if ORAM ever flips town. I dislike ORAM's posts but I dislike the way you are approaching them even more.
In post 784, Grendel wrote:Not really sure about the idea of flipping ORAM today since its so low info tho.
This feels like you want it to happen later so Frogsterking can die right after.
In post 790, Lunar Martian wrote:I think Grendel is right to point out that ER has been inactive since pressure started to build on them. The pressure consequently dissipated, and they have remained inactive except a quick comment after being prodded.
In post 782, Grendel wrote:Lunar standing in the face of death and actively tempting Luca to hammer runs contrary to how survivalistic most scum are. It would be safer in that situation to just go ahead and (fake)claim and hope for the best as scum. Lunar actively spiting on that notion and aggressing the players active in that point of time is pretty inline with town behavior.
in short i think Lunar is more likely town then scum.
I get where you’re coming from, but I could also see that behavior coming from scum who know their time is up/are getting bussed.
I do think Bugs is the more likely scum of the two, and my recent meta-dive reinforces this belief.
I feel like if Bugspray was scum, they could just claim something really powerful and they'd be safe for the rest of this game. What they claimed doesn't match that description.
In post 803, Frogsterking wrote:I'm willing to hammer Lunar, ORAM, and bugs today in that order of preference. I'd be pretty stunned if there isn't at least one scum in this group and not very stunned at all if there are three.
Nulls I have are Trendall and OutworldER.
I townread everyone else. If one of my townreads is wrong my first pick would be Amelie as a proxy read off Gamma's intuition and my second pick would be NPOM because of his profile. There is also a weak associative tell I pointed out between the ORAM slot and Momrangal.
I think I'm going to drop Frogsterking to a scum read. It feels to me like he is looking for the easy pushes.
In post 717, Amélie wrote:I feel like this is either a huge play style clash or you are scum. I hate nearly every post you post.
Curious why frogster didn’t address this when bringing up that point about emotion before
Btw I think part of the problem with your posts Amelie is you put your thoughts behind the spoiler= tag so it’s harder to engage with.
If I did not put them in spoilers, people might complain about their length.
In post 816, Gamma Emerald wrote:@NPOM and the other anti-s: still this personality stuff is bullshit?
I did not read that entire block of text. If Frogsterking can summarize it and make it shorter, I am willing to read it.
In post 777, Amélie wrote:You recently said you reviewed my posting and thought me town. Then soon after I moved you to my scum reads and this post followed.
Can you talk to me about how you are thinking?
That isn’t an accurate representation of the timeline
I feel like it’s hard to parse out what factors into your reads so they come across as baseless and random
Amelie is a bit disorganized but, she posts stream of thought posts in the attempt or organize and communicate her thoughts and ideas which I maintain is difficult for newer scum to do. It looks like to me that her mind is moving much faster than she is able to get down on paper and it does show that she is trying to solve a puzzle vs trying to manipulate the situation to make it look like she is solving a puzzle.
I don't think scum defends me here and this is a very accusation representation of my play. I am very overwhelmed by the amount posted and am always catching up again and again. Momrangal moved back up to a townread.
In post 833, Gamma Emerald wrote:yeah that kinda seems to be the case imo as well
your breakdown of me v. Amelie and grednel v. Amelie really made that click I think. It also covered my question towards you before of you you weren't factoring in Amelie's own distaste for Grendel, fwiw
I thought you just called Frogsterkings personality tests bullshit.
I'm not entirely confident on this but I'm going with the consensus
This is the worst vote on bugspray so far. Im dropping this to null.
For now, since the deadline is coming up and no one particularly agrees with my reads, I will compromise and
VOTE: Lunar Martian
Summary of my big post:
1) Big-picture wise Gamma, Grendel, and Amelie all have very intuitive personalities (Openness) that are roughly similar.
2) Gamma and Grendel are primarily applying logic while Amelie is primarily relying on her intuition.
3) Looking at sub traits, Gamma has a slight preference for Order which could become a target for Amelie who is going off her intuition because it naturally clashes with Openness. Grendel has a slight preference for Cautiousness which could also become a target for Amelie; both because it also clashes with Openness and because it can often be a scum tell.
While writing the post I understood Amelie's process more and felt confident again that Amelie is town. I believe Gamma had a similar experience.
Momrangal coming in with her second opinion, which included that my second-guessing of your alignment was a waste of energy and was making her irate, caused me to become more confident in my town read on Momrangal, ironically making the process worth it FMPOV.
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:12 am
by Frogsterking
I think bugs claim is real and as Luca said, it doesn't mean that they're town 100%. I think there is a decent chance it will become obvious later.
I believe the lynch should be flipped onto Lunar or ORAM.
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:13 am
by bugspray
In post 854, Momrangal wrote:Someone said earlier that bugs was a creative player. As a backup neigbor, what couldn't they come up with a better back-up fakeclaim?
i literally crumbed it very early from the MOMENT i sniffed who might be in the hood
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:18 am
by bugspray
backup anything is a really bold fake claim because it has no real point other than to be the target of a rolecop/complex role if there is nothing to actually backup
maybe a backup miller could be conftown if a rolecop can read them because i don't think scum backup miller would pass nrg
In post 854, Momrangal wrote:Someone said earlier that bugs was a creative player. As a backup neigbor, what couldn't they come up with a better back-up fakeclaim?
i literally crumbed it very early from the MOMENT i sniffed who might be in the hood
I think what she's implying is good for you bugs because she's implying you're telling the truth or you would have been more creative.
In post 854, Momrangal wrote:Someone said earlier that bugs was a creative player. As a backup neigbor, what couldn't they come up with a better back-up fakeclaim?
i literally crumbed it very early from the MOMENT i sniffed who might be in the hood
I think what she's implying is good for you bugs because she's implying you're telling the truth or you would have been more creative.
In post 860, bugspray wrote:backup anything is a really bold fake claim because it has no real point other than to be the target of a rolecop/complex role if there is nothing to actually backup
maybe a backup miller could be conftown if a rolecop can read them because i don't think scum backup miller would pass nrg
Now you're arguing against yourself because you're saying saying it's exactly the kind of role you would make up.
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:21 am
by Frogsterking
bugs come on, can you say something good about Lunar?
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:26 am
by Gamma Emerald
In post 848, Amélie wrote:I thought you just called Frogsterkings personality tests bullshit.
I can see how you might think that but I don't, that was just a typo that affected the message more than I thought
I feel like that thing from frogster actually proved the worth of the personality test stuff
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:28 am
by Gamma Emerald
In post 860, bugspray wrote:backup anything is a really bold fake claim because it has no real point other than to be the target of a rolecop/complex role if there is nothing to actually backup
maybe a backup miller could be conftown if a rolecop can read them because i don't think scum backup miller would pass nrg
I learned the hard way that miller isn't a possible scum role in normals
so backup millers would be cleared if checked by a rolecop
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:36 am
by Frogsterking
In post 829, Gamma Emerald wrote:Something about the number of people calling bugspray second best makes them seem more likely scum. Not because buddies are trying to push townies rather than bus, but because generally the way to avoid getting limmed as scum is not to be ultra-town but to just not be the scummiest in the room.
I'm seeing a lot of this second-hand interest in ORAM as well. Galreon, NPOM and I have expressed interest in a potential ORAM execution, or at least in Galreon's case he stated that ORAM was worth a closer look. I think ORAM might be second or third for Luca as well.
In post 854, Momrangal wrote:Someone said earlier that bugs was a creative player. As a backup neigbor, what couldn't they come up with a better back-up fakeclaim?
i literally crumbed it very early from the MOMENT i sniffed who might be in the hood
Well you said that you thought they might be in a hood. As in you outed that. But I don't see any hints that suggest you are a backup neighbor. Could you point them out?
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:39 am
by Lunar Martian
For someone who everyone seems to be OK with killing, there's been a ton of push-back against killing bugs. What does that mean? Fellow Mafia are coming to defend them? A few Town are more insightful than the rest of us?
As much as a lot of people are OK with killing bugs, a lot of people seem to view it as a default vote, so it would be very easy for all the Mafia to be letting us go this direction and mostly shutting up about it.
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:42 am
by NoPowerOverMe
We're just discussing if the fake claim is viable or not. I'm leaning no, because he hasn't been very active and I feel with a lame role like backup neighbor he'd be more active.
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:44 am
by Lunar Martian
It seems to me like the claim is plausible but could go either way. Then we should evaluate based on the merits of the case, right?
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:45 am
by NoPowerOverMe
Yep, that's what we're discussing.
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:11 am
by Frogsterking
There's a little voice inside my head that's talking me into hammering bugs.
In post 847, Amélie wrote:If todays choices are Bugspray and Lunar Martian, I actually prefer Lunar Martian over Bug spray now. The claim is a really strange role that doesn't seem like a scum fake claim to me.
You had me as Town, but now that you prefer bugs over me suddenly bugs is Town and you think I'm Mafia? That's very odd and unexpected. I don't understand.
For the sake of getting an elim today, you are now in my scum reads. I think bugs as scum could claim something more important like cop or vigilante. Because of this I believe the claim is real. Alignment we can slowly figure out along the way. No one here is willing to elim anyone except you and bugspray.
This is very rude. I can't remember why honestly speaking.
In post 854, Momrangal wrote:Someone said earlier that bugs was a creative player. As a backup neigbor, what couldn't they come up with a better back-up fakeclaim?
In post 779, Grendel wrote:I'd say you're allergic to me lol. If you can think of a reason every single post a player makes is scummy then you're trying very hard to make the player in question look scummy in your mind.
If this is where it stands then im not sure if theres much point in me engaging you this game.
You asked about why I said "if you're both town then chill out" w/regards to the Lunar Vs Luca thing. Its a means of discouraging self-destructive town tendencies, its a net neutral as far as telling scum it i think? "if you're both town" just appeals to a player's better nature in general. I use the phrase pretty regularly in most games i play.
The bolded is what I find unsettling in this post. My Grendel scum read is definitely still there.
In post 779, Grendel wrote:That interesting b/c the whole "keeping up with the game, and summarizing whats happening" is a crutch i leaned in hard on when i was inexperienced scum. Players are less liekly to turn on you when you say mostly uncontroversial things as a newer player in site meta. I will have to read AGambling Pigs posts agian as I dont recall them v well.
They had only 5 posts so I'm not sure it really meant much.
In post 780, Grendel wrote:"Quick lets flip this inactive slot before we get a replacement!" Froggking looking really town if AGB slot turns out to be mafia.
This is a super bad way to describe this and makes Frogsterking look particularly bad if ORAM ever flips town. I dislike ORAM's posts but I dislike the way you are approaching them even more.
In post 784, Grendel wrote:Not really sure about the idea of flipping ORAM today since its so low info tho.
This feels like you want it to happen later so Frogsterking can die right after.
In post 790, Lunar Martian wrote:I think Grendel is right to point out that ER has been inactive since pressure started to build on them. The pressure consequently dissipated, and they have remained inactive except a quick comment after being prodded.
In post 782, Grendel wrote:Lunar standing in the face of death and actively tempting Luca to hammer runs contrary to how survivalistic most scum are. It would be safer in that situation to just go ahead and (fake)claim and hope for the best as scum. Lunar actively spiting on that notion and aggressing the players active in that point of time is pretty inline with town behavior.
in short i think Lunar is more likely town then scum.
I get where you’re coming from, but I could also see that behavior coming from scum who know their time is up/are getting bussed.
I do think Bugs is the more likely scum of the two, and my recent meta-dive reinforces this belief.
I feel like if Bugspray was scum, they could just claim something really powerful and they'd be safe for the rest of this game. What they claimed doesn't match that description.
In post 803, Frogsterking wrote:I'm willing to hammer Lunar, ORAM, and bugs today in that order of preference. I'd be pretty stunned if there isn't at least one scum in this group and not very stunned at all if there are three.
Nulls I have are Trendall and OutworldER.
I townread everyone else. If one of my townreads is wrong my first pick would be Amelie as a proxy read off Gamma's intuition and my second pick would be NPOM because of his profile. There is also a weak associative tell I pointed out between the ORAM slot and Momrangal.
I think I'm going to drop Frogsterking to a scum read. It feels to me like he is looking for the easy pushes.
In post 717, Amélie wrote:I feel like this is either a huge play style clash or you are scum. I hate nearly every post you post.
Curious why frogster didn’t address this when bringing up that point about emotion before
Btw I think part of the problem with your posts Amelie is you put your thoughts behind the spoiler= tag so it’s harder to engage with.
If I did not put them in spoilers, people might complain about their length.
In post 816, Gamma Emerald wrote:@NPOM and the other anti-s: still this personality stuff is bullshit?
I did not read that entire block of text. If Frogsterking can summarize it and make it shorter, I am willing to read it.
In post 777, Amélie wrote:You recently said you reviewed my posting and thought me town. Then soon after I moved you to my scum reads and this post followed.
Can you talk to me about how you are thinking?
That isn’t an accurate representation of the timeline
I feel like it’s hard to parse out what factors into your reads so they come across as baseless and random
Amelie is a bit disorganized but, she posts stream of thought posts in the attempt or organize and communicate her thoughts and ideas which I maintain is difficult for newer scum to do. It looks like to me that her mind is moving much faster than she is able to get down on paper and it does show that she is trying to solve a puzzle vs trying to manipulate the situation to make it look like she is solving a puzzle.
I don't think scum defends me here and this is a very accusation representation of my play. I am very overwhelmed by the amount posted and am always catching up again and again. Momrangal moved back up to a townread.
In post 833, Gamma Emerald wrote:yeah that kinda seems to be the case imo as well
your breakdown of me v. Amelie and grednel v. Amelie really made that click I think. It also covered my question towards you before of you you weren't factoring in Amelie's own distaste for Grendel, fwiw
I thought you just called Frogsterkings personality tests bullshit.
I'm not entirely confident on this but I'm going with the consensus
This is the worst vote on bugspray so far. Im dropping this to null.
For now, since the deadline is coming up and no one particularly agrees with my reads, I will compromise and
VOTE: Lunar Martian
Summary of my big post:
1) Big-picture wise Gamma, Grendel, and Amelie all have very intuitive personalities (Openness) that are roughly similar.
2) Gamma and Grendel are primarily applying logic while Amelie is primarily relying on her intuition.
3) Looking at sub traits, Gamma has a slight preference for Order which could become a target for Amelie who is going off her intuition because it naturally clashes with Openness. Grendel has a slight preference for Cautiousness which could also become a target for Amelie; both because it also clashes with Openness and because it can often be a scum tell.
While writing the post I understood Amelie's process more and felt confident again that Amelie is town. I believe Gamma had a similar experience.
Momrangal coming in with her second opinion, which included that my second-guessing of your alignment was a waste of energy and was making her irate, caused me to become more confident in my town read on Momrangal, ironically making the process worth it FMPOV.
I don't think this entire game should just be written off by saying I scum read people because of personality clash. You make it seem like I could never have a correct scum read.
In post 869, NoPowerOverMe wrote:We're just discussing if the fake claim is viable or not. I'm leaning no, because he hasn't been very active and I feel with a lame role like backup neighbor he'd be more active.
Why does lamer role = more activity?
Posted: Thu Dec 31, 2020 11:14 am
by Amélie
In post 872, Frogsterking wrote:There's a little voice inside my head that's talking me into hammering bugs.
Dont. I think we need to shift off bugspray right now.