Mafiascum.net

In post 848, team rocket queen wrote:

In post 846, team rocket queen wrote:but at the same time, eliminate from the wagon! is good position for scum!you to take as well, so it is hard to evaluate

especially if partner is also off wagon,

this is just speculation though - i'm sure you could attach hypothetical motives to anybody's behaviour as town and scum. Yes, if I was scum here with say FBJim, I'd definitely be making the point that scum is on wagon. However:

1. If I'm scum with somebody who was also off-wagon yesterday, scum should win this game 9 times out of 10 without even trying. So why am I trying?
2. The point that scum is likely to be on a dodgy mis-elim is...not a controversial thing. I strongly recommend all towns treat mis-elim wagons with healthy skepticism. That's the right approach regardless of my alignment.

In post 847, Battle Mage wrote:let me put it bluntly. Yesterday 3 SE's ran up a newbie who was fairly obviously town. I don't believe all 3 SE's screwed up. Additionally, from my experience, I trust my instincts, and my instincts are that there is at least one experienced player pulling the strings for scumteam here.

game state was a factor, but yeah, probably my bad, but if going to go with 'mafia if wrong!' is ... based on my history of quite frequently being wrong; ydrasse was town, so also wrong, leaving happy unbirthday boon, which i've considered this possibility but it doesn't seem consistent with my other observations

In post 849, Battle Mage wrote:Tbh scum-me doesn't ever come into the game like this - my slot was pretty clean amongst a mass of utter filth. If I was scum here, I'd just cruise to a win rather than rocking the boat.

i am sure we could all say some version of this

In post 817, Vasex wrote:

In post 816, Vasex wrote:He is too relaxed

HUB

for what it's worth, I wouldn't describe HUB as relaxed - maybe the opposite. HUB was absolutely frantic to get the mis-elim over the line yesterday, and has been very quiet since.

In post 850, Battle Mage wrote:this is just speculation though - i'm sure you could attach hypothetical motives to anybody's behaviour as town and scum. Yes, if I was scum here with say FBJim, I'd definitely be making the point that scum is on wagon. However:1. If I'm scum with somebody who was also off-wagon yesterday, scum should win this game 9 times out of 10 without even trying. So why am I trying?2. The point that scum is likely to be on a dodgy mis-elim is...not a controversial thing. I strongly recommend all towns treat mis-elim wagons with healthy skepticism. That's the right approach regardless of my alignment.

right, so it is good to consider what seems most likely option.

1. does scum!floo/you really seem like win without trying to you? because it does not to me

2. and do you not think we are doing that with our considerations of happy unbirthday boon and kittytacky?

In post 851, team rocket queen wrote:

In post 847, Battle Mage wrote:let me put it bluntly. Yesterday 3 SE's ran up a newbie who was fairly obviously town. I don't believe all 3 SE's screwed up. Additionally, from my experience, I trust my instincts, and my instincts are that there is at least one experienced player pulling the strings for scumteam here.

game state was a factor, but yeah, probably my bad, but if going to go with 'mafia if wrong!' is ... based on my history of quite frequently being wrong; ydrasse was town, so also wrong, leaving happy unbirthday boon, which i've considered this possibility but it doesn't seem consistent with my other observations

In some ways you were less culpable right - since you didn't really go for it wholeheartedly. If anyone on that wagon had doubt, it was probably you. Although of course that begs the question - were you town having legitimate concerns, or scum who was hoping to distance from the wagon and that it would complete without you on it, but was eventually compelled to join just to get it over the line.

In post 851, team rocket queen wrote:

In post 849, Battle Mage wrote:Tbh scum-me doesn't ever come into the game like this - my slot was pretty clean amongst a mass of utter filth. If I was scum here, I'd just cruise to a win rather than rocking the boat.

i am sure we could all say some version of this

you could meta me of course - and if you're going to indulge in wild speculation such as you have, you probably should. I'm sure anyone could try and say some version of it - however in some cases it wouldn't be as credible. What if I'd replaced into the KittyTacky-slot? or the HUB-slot? it's not the same thing.

In post 853, team rocket queen wrote:

In post 850, Battle Mage wrote:this is just speculation though - i'm sure you could attach hypothetical motives to anybody's behaviour as town and scum. Yes, if I was scum here with say FBJim, I'd definitely be making the point that scum is on wagon. However:1. If I'm scum with somebody who was also off-wagon yesterday, scum should win this game 9 times out of 10 without even trying. So why am I trying?2. The point that scum is likely to be on a dodgy mis-elim is...not a controversial thing. I strongly recommend all towns treat mis-elim wagons with healthy skepticism. That's the right approach regardless of my alignment.

right, so it is good to consider what seems most likely option.

1. does scum!floo/you really seem like win without trying to you? because it does not to me

2. and do you not think we are doing that with our considerations of happy unbirthday boon and kittytacky?

1. haha I'm offended. Yes, me and Floo should win this game as scum 9 times out of 10. Not a big compliment to us, more a reflection on how badly town played Day 1 if me and Floo were scum. Don't panic though - I'm town!

2. I think it applies to everybody. Hold people to account for mis-eliminations. I don't think it stops at HUB and KittyTacky - how could I be sure it isn't you? or Vasex was the other one?

i'm really struggling with Vasex's hard-town reads on HUB and TRQ/jessie...just a different outlook i guess

In post 854, Battle Mage wrote:In some ways you were less culpable right - since you didn't really go for it wholeheartedly. If anyone on that wagon had doubt, it was probably you. Although of course that begs the question - were you town having legitimate concerns, or scum who was hoping to distance from the wagon and that it would complete without you on it, but was eventually compelled to join just to get it over the line.

i was town considering whether it was better to hammer wagon i didn't fully believe in but mostly understood the reason for or to move to kittytacky with fbjim

In post 854, Battle Mage wrote:I'm sure anyone could try and say some version of it - however in some cases it wouldn't be as credible. What if I'd replaced into the KittyTacky-slot? or the HUB-slot? it's not the same thing.

i meant a version applied to their slot. like why would i do X as mafia here? is very very common from all alignments

In post 855, Battle Mage wrote:2. I think it applies to everybody. Hold people to account for mis-eliminations. I don't think it stops at HUB and KittyTacky - how could I be sure it isn't you? or Vasex was the other one?

you could evaluate my slot outside of this? it just feels like you aren't willing to evaluate me and just say i'm potentially mafia based on something i think should hold less weight than other factors,

In post 857, team rocket queen wrote:

In post 854, Battle Mage wrote:In some ways you were less culpable right - since you didn't really go for it wholeheartedly. If anyone on that wagon had doubt, it was probably you. Although of course that begs the question - were you town having legitimate concerns, or scum who was hoping to distance from the wagon and that it would complete without you on it, but was eventually compelled to join just to get it over the line.

i was town considering whether it was better to hammer wagon i didn't fully believe in but mostly understood the reason for or to move to kittytacky with fbjim

i'll probably go back and re-read the closing stages when I have more time.

In post 857, team rocket queen wrote:

In post 854, Battle Mage wrote:I'm sure anyone could try and say some version of it - however in some cases it wouldn't be as credible. What if I'd replaced into the KittyTacky-slot? or the HUB-slot? it's not the same thing.

i meant a version applied to their slot. like why would i do X as mafia here? is very very common from all alignments

yes but the fact scum can say it doesn't mean you dismiss it out of hand. you should evaluate it on it's merits - that goes for everything. anyone can say it, but some will say it and have a strong case, others won't.

In post 857, team rocket queen wrote:

In post 855, Battle Mage wrote:2. I think it applies to everybody. Hold people to account for mis-eliminations. I don't think it stops at HUB and KittyTacky - how could I be sure it isn't you? or Vasex was the other one?

you could evaluate my slot outside of this? it just feels like you aren't willing to evaluate me and just say i'm potentially mafia based on something i think should hold less weight than other factors,

tbh, i'm trying to focus attention on elimming my top suspect (which is not you). I am continually re-evaluating you as we talk, rest assured on that.

Floo is scummy to me because they are lurking hard. See Vasex's post count. Only 16 posts in the whole game. That's sus AF if I have to say.

Honestly if you hang me I don't mind that much, gives town more info. But get floo next if I'm hanged today.

Have some time now to post.

I like how Battle Mage has jumped right into the game with lots of discussion. I had nulled fairy before (but didn't get to post reads). In the game I played with fairy, fairy made some insightful reads and ended up a huge threat to the scumteam, but in this game I didn't see that from fairy. Instead I saw noncommittal in votes, which might have been slightly scumleaning. Mage's style so far is very pro-town though.

KittyTacky seems like he has glanced over the wrong flow call and doesn't understand why he's scummy otherwise. IIRC Kitty was one of the people who sussed me for being less active but defending flow a lot, same goes for him except he attacked flow. His reasons for voting flow were vague. The earlier PR claim fiasco was obviously stupid, going from "flow is PR!" to "flow fakeclaimed PR to trick town" to "I'll stop posting about this and instead give a vague reason in my E-1 post." Feel like this might border on TSTBS, but if incompetent town can do this, incompetent scum can do the same. As said before (I think by Battle Mage?) town!Kitty is elimination bait in a possible ELO, and Mage's vote on Kitty thus was partly for policy elimination. (correct me if wrong) I want to explore vote options other than Kitty for the start of the day, but I agree Kitty is one of the scummiest players and is today's most likely elimination.

flow wagon didn't give us as much information as we'd want, but I disagree with flow's comment that the wagon would give no info. We have a scumpool. The poorly argued wagon had to have at least one scum on it, more likely than not two, and the Ydrasse elimination gives us the scumpool. That doesn't leave out fairy and Jim, however, who defended flow (not too strongly) while struggling to find another wagon to push. I honestly can't have multiple strong townreads. FBJim has played the most pro-town on D1 with insightful analysis and looking past a flow vote.

We need to question flow trap voters to glean what info we can from the wagon. The scums are unlikely to be able to explain adequately why they, as rational thinkers, would vote flow. I could have asked them on D1 but all the players (including town) seemed self-convinced and unwilling to discuss until they were proven wrong. It was a better use of my time to defend flow than to push his voters.

In post 859, KittyTacky wrote:Floo is scummy to me because they are lurking hard. See Vasex's post count. Only 16 posts in the whole game. That's sus AF if I have to say.

Distorted number because I prefer to post in paragraphs/walls. You and Vasex should consider not just how many posts other players write, but how much info they actually give, and how that info has been helpful.

Where I come from, fucking around like FT was and then waiting a long time to give a claim is... Practically an instant hang. Okay I admit the E-1 post was badly-written but how am I scummy for pushing on a borderline-trolling player who turned out to be a townie? Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Yes I may have had muddled reasons but I'm new to forum mafia, this is my first game, you can check.

In post 862, floo wrote:

In post 859, KittyTacky wrote:Floo is scummy to me because they are lurking hard. See Vasex's post count. Only 16 posts in the whole game. That's sus AF if I have to say.

Distorted number because I prefer to post in paragraphs/walls. You and Vasex should consider not just how many posts other players write, but how much info they actually give, and how that info has been helpful.

Most of that was in defense of FT-- who turned out to be an actual townie so that's NAI by itself (might be a scum using a doomed-looking townie to gain cred). But something to think about.

In post 860, KittyTacky wrote:Honestly if you hang me I don't mind that much, gives town more info. But get floo next if I'm hanged today.

Here Kitty says that he is not a town's important role.

In post 862, floo wrote:

In post 859, KittyTacky wrote:Floo is scummy to me because they are lurking hard. See Vasex's post count. Only 16 posts in the whole game. That's sus AF if I have to say.

Distorted number because I prefer to post in paragraphs/walls. You and Vasex should consider not just how many posts other players write, but how much info they actually give, and how that info has been helpful.

So who are scummies for you?
This is the most important info.
Now it looks like you are ready to vote anyone with no strong suspect, this is a usual mafia tactics.

In post 861, floo wrote:I want to explore vote options other than Kitty for the start of the day, but I agree Kitty is one of the scummiest players and is today's most likely elimination.

So start it. Where is your vote?

Floo, I was your main suspect. Has anything changed? Why?

well TRQ/BM definitely isn't S/S which is nice


im going to loosely agree w/ BM on one point - the flow trap wagon bothered me a lot because a) there was little reason to do it because meta suggested it was flow trap's style, and b) it felt like a borderline policy elim which is not good. like yes getting the game state readable is better but there was a much easier way to do it, which was to not constantly respond and react to FT's posts which is kind of what HUB did - constantly arguing with FT and then pushing a borderline policy elim based on "ft just argues and obfuscates all the time" is a big time problem

i'm going through ISO and its honestly difficult to form a case about floo that isnt entirely based on activity level. that's not a *bad* reason but he's not a compelling elim option yet.

i will hold on E-1 for KT because i don't want a hammer threat with an "important" player still in v/la.

if HUB-KT is the likely team (for me) its because they have the most scummy *actions* right now. KT's weird E-1 has already been mentioned as has HUB's hard miselim push. the problem is that it puts both scum on the miselim wagon, and puts *both* of them in a really visible position in the miselim. KT as the e-1 and HUB as the one pushing it the hardest. this is why i want to wait for HUB to return - at the risk of overthinking it, i dont think *both* mafia would stick their necks out for a D1 miselim which is a likely result anyway.

If you use the post count against Floo, you should also use it in defence of HUB. The maximum quantity of posts should be more significant, than low amount. Because anybody can have not much time or interest in a game, but mafia very rarely stays on the first place of activity if it is absolutely not necessary. I reminded activity overview more to defend HUB, than to shade Floo.

We can hang players three times.
It looks like it will be in this range: KT, Floo, HUB/BM (if Jim is townie indeed).
Till the end of the day we need to decide who is possible mafia if KT mafia and Floo townie in this range: HUB/BM.
I hope that after listening to everybodt we can solve this puzzle even without PRs, but PRs should make it much easier.

KT cannot be PR now in any possible universe. He suggested to hang him for getting more info.

If Kitty is townie, than mafia Floo and BM/Jim.