Mafiascum.net

In post 567, Kilgamayan wrote:@Tuxedo: Framing my vote as being "parked" is pretty disingenuous on your part, honestly. Nothing Hoctac has done has made me want to change it; see 515, which quotes my major problem with Hoctac's Koba vote. There has been no movement to my vote because Hoctac went a while without posting, and then defended against OMGUS charges while ignoring my major issue stated in 389 (which is quoted in 515). Note that this approach to defense, delaying and then ignoring/misdirecting, is also a scummy act.

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A restatement of my issue with Hoctac, for (hopefully) full clarity

Koba voted Hoctac in 207, and Hoctac turned around and voted Koba in 208. An argument can be had over how scummy OMGUS is, or if it is even scummy or not, but that is a discussion for another time. The important thing to look at here is Hoctac's vote reason: "For a pillow push and changing their warrant once questioned." This is later expanded upon in 214 with "Additionally, they implied they disliked Holden's defensiveness, yet switched their vote to me too quickly, indicating they were unhappy with pursuing that push since it was drawing questions into their alignment and motives", and in 240, Hoctac adds that "My vote has nothing to do with your vote on me specifically."

Why is this scummy?

This is discussed in my 389, but for the sake of clarify, I'll explain again.

* Hoctac posts and is engaged with the game in 178.
* Koba unvotes Holden in 186.
* N3R unvotes clidd (an RVS vote) and votes ceejay in 197.
* Hoctac questions N3R's 197 unvote in 198.

Hoctac is at least someone active and engaged with the game in this interval of time, because 178 and 198 are both game-engaged posts. Hoctac is also keeping track of unvotes, as evidenced in 198 by questioning N3R's unvote.

The kicker here is that no effort whatsoever is made to engage with Koba over Koba's unvote, despite Hoctac clearly paying attention unvotes. No voting for or questioning of Koba whatsoever. If the vote and justification in 208 and the further elaborations in 214 and 240 were genuinely what TownHoctac thought, then Hoctac would have made an effort to engage with Koba over Koba's 186 unvote in 198, if not sooner.

As no effort was made in that interval of posts, it is simple to conclude that Hoctac's Koba vote and reasoning was not genuine, and as such Hoctac is scum.

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If Hoctac is somehow telling the truth then I will look elsewhere, but there is no way to know this until Hoctac flips, so this is a rather pointless question at this juncture.

In post 728, Kilgamayan wrote:Bluhhhhh actually the more I dwell on it the more I want to do this. WAGON DECONSOLIDATION WITH LESS THAN 12 HOURS LET'S GO

UNVOTE: Hoctac
VOTE: enomis

The more I think about the multiple instances of "hey everyone let's lynch ceejay" without any effort to explain

why

we should vote for ceejay (not even in the original ceejay vote) the more I dislike it. I also was not impressed by our exchange related to hammer votes, which makes me feel even better about this, but the reasonless vote and continued enthusiastic pushes are really bad.

In post 826, Kilgamayan wrote:Overnight thoughts. Can't wait for one or more of these people to have died and made me look stupid with their flips!

The enomis train

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Kilgamayan

- Well, I know I'm town.

Tuxedo Mask

- Bluh. Had previously expression suspicion of enomis in 553, but (a) it seems to come about largely as a result of PoE (the post also lists Holden, N3R, Hoctac, Clidd, and myself in the Town section), and (b) it comes right alongside a suspicion of ceejay. (This is going to get PbP-ish, but I promise it's going somewhere.) Changes vote to ceejay in 558, but proceeds to question me in 562 about why I don't like ceejay and enomis, as well as I why I dislike ceejay more at the time, and then also questions enomis in 576 about "why CJ over Hoctac", despite having his own vote on ceejay at the time. The kicker than comes in 730, with a statement about thinking Hoctac and Koba are down while switching his vote to enomis on the grounds that ceejay may be getting replaced. The problem with all this? Between 553 and 730, Tuxedo Mask has town reads on everyone but ceejay and enomis and is willing to vote either of them, but does not appear to ever make an effort to reconcile these with the fact that ceejay and enomis actively dislike each other (and have actively disliked each other for a while, including enomis voting for ceejay). I feel like Town Tuxedo would want to stop and rethink given he is town reading six players and scum reading two players in a two-scum game while those two scumreads were actively hostile toward each other and had been hostile toward each other for a while. I also feel like (a) questioning people over why they would prefer to vote ceejay over other people while he himself is voting ceejay, and (b) changing his vote from ceejay to a person voting ceejay that ceejay thinks is scum means Tuxedo doesn't really care that much about the implications of his scumreads.

(Also worth noting that Tuxedo Mask leaves his vote on enomis even after ceejay starts posting again, which makes it clear that ceejay is not getting a replacement, which eliminates the reason for switching to enomis in 730. Koba had just voted ceejay in 778 as well before ceejay started posting again, so a ceejay lynch was definitely viable at that point.)

ceejayvinoya

- Vote seems reasonable to me; even with his limited post volume, ceejay had been displeased with and poking at enomis for most of the day. Perfectly logical vote for a Town ceejay.

HoldenGolden

- Noooooot great. 568 mentions a preference to have enomis hammer the day's lynch "for reasons I'm about to post", but those reasons are never actually posted, and his 573 reread of enomis's ISO results in concluding that it "isn't nearly as bad as I thought I saw". He briefly engages with enomis about the hammering discussion/issue in 635, but the wording doesn't seem to imply "I think you are scummy for thinking this way", and then Holden doesn't mention enomis again until the vote despite having plenty of time to engage in the PP/Koba argument.

DkKoba

- I'm feeling pretty good about TownKoba given ScumKoba would have known enomis was town and therefore could have very safely and easily let PP hammer enomis instead as PP said he would do. Jumping in to hammer a possible SuperSaint when there was stated intent to hammer from elsewhere just seems so needlessly risky for little-to-no benefit.

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tl;dr

ceejay's vote is null at worst

,

Koba's vote looks town

, Tuxedo's

and Holden's

votes look scummy. VOTE: Tuxedo Mask because I think his vote is somewhat worse than Holden's,

but they're both pretty bad and I wouldn't be sad to see Holden get lynched instead

.

(None of this is to say ceejay is definitely town, of course.)

Wow, didn't expect the night to take out THAT much of the enomis lynch. Makes me feel better about my Tuxedo vote, though!