Mini Theme 2164: Betrayal Mafia I (Game over!)

[lilith2013]

V OTECOUNT 2.015
P LAYER N AME	C URRENT V OTES		S TRENGTH	S PEED	K NOWLEDGE	P LAYER N AME
Gamma Emerald	Nosferatu	EL-6	3	2	4	Gamma Emerald
SirCakez	None	EL-7	2	3	3	SirCakez
CreativeMod1	None	EL-7	3	3	3	CreativeMod1
Albert B. Rampage	PenguinPower, Fun and Games, Ydrasse	EL-4	3	3	3	Albert B. Rampage
Pine	SirCakez, Gamma Emerald, JohnnyFarrar, CreativeMod1, Albert B. Rampage	EL-2	3	3	4	Pine
Bingle	None	EL-7	3	3	3	Bingle
Nosferatu	None	EL-7	3	3	4	Nosferatu
I Keep Siteflaking	None	EL-7	3	3	3	I Keep Siteflaking
PenguinPower	None	EL-7	3	3	3	PenguinPower
Fun and Games	None	EL-7	3	3	3	Fun and Games
Ydrasse	None	EL-7	3	3	3	Ydrasse
JohnnyFarrar	Bingle, I Keep Siteflaking	EL-5	3	3	3	JohnnyFarrar
Not Voting	Pine
With 12 alive, it takes 7 to eliminate. Deadline: (expired on 2020-10-11 20:28:04)
Notes: wooooooooooo PenguinPower now off V/LA - will prod in ~24 hours if he doesn't post by then pagetops: Lilith 15 | penguin 9 | cm1 2 | ABR 2 | gamma 2 | johnnyf 2 | gb 1 | fun & games 1 | nosferatu 1

[Gamma Emerald]

Read the damn game to know why Pine wagon is a thing

Both of us have read the game multiple times.

We understand the reasoning behind the Pine push. We just think it's really bad.

Like you think scum purposefully put +1 Knowledge on their OWN player on N0 so that he could more easily activate labs right?

The simplest counterpoint to this theory is that stats are public knowledge and it doesn't make sense to sacrifice a scum-player just to activate a lab.

More importantly -

labs do not matter this early in the game

There are currently at least 8-9 town players (3-4 scum) and only TWO labs activated - which means the bad guys are nowhere close to fulfilling their lab activation victory condition.

This means we have plenty of time to de-activate these activated labs - at least a few night-phases- though ideally we would just kill the bad guys and win the game that way. The best chance the town has to de-activate these labs is to have high knowledge players try to deactivate labs - so shouldn't we at least give Pine a chance to de-activate these labs instead of just yeeting him? If he fails like multiple times then your case for yeeting him gets much better.

I'm not solely arguing scum put knowledge on themselves because it benefits them. I'm saying it because two labs being activated points to that idea. The whole meat of this is entirely based around the known events of the game, where Pine got knowledge n0 and then 2 labs got activated n1. Pine very well could have the same role (aka career, just to lean on game terminology for a second) I do, which would have allowed him to activate a lab for free once in addition to still being able to use a night action through speed to do it. Pine also just hasn't been contributing, and when he's this low contribution as town I generally see him replace out or at least be upfront about it being a problem. So there's a non-mechanical reasoning for Pine to be scum.
Now, let's talk hypotheticals off of Pine's flip. If he flips with my Career (which I expect should show up in the flip despite full role text not) then we can treat my theory as effectively confirmed. If he flips as scum with a different role, then it says 2 things: that scum probably did end up using two standard night actions to activate those labs, and that it probably takes a relatively low roll to get. If he flips town we at least have a ton of wagon information to analyze from today and maybe yesterday. So I think yeeting him today is at the very least a strongly informative move.

As for whether labs matter, they ALWAYS matter. If we can destroy the labs now, they won't be around later, and I imagine there's a good chance there won't be infinite labs.

[Gamma Emerald]

And like, we now have TWO people with at least as much knowledge as Pine, so the "let him stick around to destroy labs" idea doesn't really work for me when there's 2 people who are seemingly just as effective.

[SirCakez]

i feel like a lot of this game is just going over my head at this point but @_@

VOTE: abr

we have some time and i don't really get saying that we should get a hammer ready when the game has finally picked up. idk if it's like, trying to get an elim through before pressure heightens or trying to get another doctor to not post more stuff + the cred of a scumflip buuuuut. i don't like it.

I actually like this post a lot. I feel v similarly.

Does anyone have a meta read on Albert? Just curious. I played with them years and years ago but can't say with any confidence that I remember anything about their scum vs town game.

I've never had success using meta on Albert - it backfired really badly on me (and him sorta too lol) recently

[Albert B. Rampage]

Cakez tunneled me in one of our games and I vigged him. We were both town. I had all the scum pegged and we were going to lynch them all but the scum had a win condition that didn't require having majority.

[Bingle]

I'm not solely arguing scum put knowledge on themselves because it benefits them. I'm saying it because two labs being activated points to that idea. The whole meat of this is entirely based around the known events of the game, where Pine got knowledge n0 and then 2 labs got activated n1. Pine very well could have the same role (aka career, just to lean on game terminology for a second) I do, which would have allowed him to activate a lab for free once in addition to still being able to use a night action through speed to do it. Pine also just hasn't been contributing, and when he's this low contribution as town I generally see him replace out or at least be upfront about it being a problem. So there's a non-mechanical reasoning for Pine to be scum.
Now, let's talk hypotheticals off of Pine's flip. If he flips with my Career (which I expect should show up in the flip despite full role text not) then we can treat my theory as effectively confirmed. If he flips as scum with a different role, then it says 2 things: that scum probably did end up using two standard night actions to activate those labs, and that it probably takes a relatively low roll to get. If he flips town we at least have a ton of wagon information to analyze from today and maybe yesterday. So I think yeeting him today is at the very least a strongly informative move.

As for whether labs matter, they ALWAYS matter. If we can destroy the labs now, they won't be around later, and I imagine there's a good chance there won't be infinite labs.

:/

First, despite all of my attempts to use your roleclaim to find out, you remain adamant that you don't know what roll scum need to activate a lab. I would wager, in fact, that activating a lab is comparatively easy to destroying one, because in a game without nightkills scum is going to need some serious advantages. Your mechanical argument for Pine scum is a very weak case, yet it's seen a disproportionate amount of support.

Second, can you provide instances of Pine town apologizing for not being around in the early game? I don't think I've ever seen that happen.

Third, Careers almost assuredly don't flip given the mod information that everyone has a career and the fact that GB didn't flip with a career, just as a test subject.

Fourth, if you can destroy labs and act normally at night, why didn't you attempt to destroy a lab on N0? There should have been no drawback to attempting given it would have been a free action and it's public knowledge that labs get harder to destroy when they're active, something I doubt you wouldn't have read with a role about destroying labs. If you can guarantee a lab's destruction (you more or less softed that with 792 and 827), then guaranteeing a lab's destruction early on for free is exactly equal to guaranteeing a lab's destruction late game for free, with the added benefit of it not risking you dying before you manage it.

Frankly, I don't think your actions line up to a town perspective and your claim is unbelievable. I think you're trying to railroad Pine, which is pretty much the entire reason I'm not going to vote for him.

[PenguinPower]

Vla lasted longer than I thought. I’ll be caught up by tonight.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Bingle what does lamist mean

[SirCakez]

look at me I'm so town

[JohnnyFarrar]

Aw shid I knew that.

[I Keep Siteflaking]

VOTE: abr

[JohnnyFarrar]

Bingle what do you think about ... well... anything? Is anyone scummy? Or town? You've posted a lot but I can't call anything you believe to mind

P: WHAT if we don't do one today we should do iksy

[JohnnyFarrar]

Ebwop if we don't do *pine*

[Fun and Games]

All my games are updated in my wiki.

Voting me is counter-productive to me solving you. My power is my night time attack. If I find a weapon it becomes even more powerful. I could probably 1-shot some of you with good dice rolls. I plan on solving this game alone and doing what's necessary to win. You're either with me or against me.

Can you be more specific about your power? It would really help us solve your slot.

[Albert B. Rampage]

I'm a vig, better than even chances to one-shot a 3-3-3 player, if I get a weapon it becomes almost certain to one-shot them unless they roll perfectly.

[Albert B. Rampage]

Class is NAI but mine is called "warrior"

[Albert B. Rampage]

VOTE: abr

Why?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Bingle what do you think about ... well... anything? Is anyone scummy? Or town? You've posted a lot but I can't call anything you believe to mind

P: WHAT if we don't do one today we should do iksy

Yes we can. For sure one or two scum are voting me. I will decide what to do about it soon. Their time will come.

[Fun and Games]

I'm a vig, better than even chances to one-shot a 3-3-3 player, if I get a weapon it becomes almost certain to one-shot them unless they roll perfectly.

Do you get a bonus to your attack role or a bonus to damage dealt? I'm curious to the mechanism.

[Albert B. Rampage]

There is nothing alignment indicative in me describing the mechanic of my attack.

[JohnnyFarrar]

Let's talk potential night targets ally. I don't wanna narrow it down too much, because I don't want to risk a block or something, but I don't wanna get blindsided either.

Also, did you attack someone yesterday?

[Albert B. Rampage]

Let's talk potential night targets ally. I don't wanna narrow it down too much, because I don't want to risk a block or something, but I don't wanna get blindsided either.

Also, did you attack someone yesterday?

Like I've been saying all day, I'm taking suggestions. It's a waste if I use my attack on someone who everyone agrees is scum and we will lynch anyway.

No, I went to the gym so I could explore and find a weapon + attack tonight.

[SirCakez]

VOTE: abr

no problem with an ABR vote but why aren't you pushing me if I'm your top SR?

[SirCakez]

Who should I teach iks

The highiest person on this list you townread:
-Nosferatu
-Gamma
-Pine
-everyone else
-Cakez

judging from this

[lilith2013]

boop