I don't know if it's stamina per se. I have a strong desire not to let down my team, especially in circumstances like mini 2181 where I was scum with friends I hydra with. I find the stamina when I'm last scum standing. I don't need stamina when I'm not, especially if my partner looks good to go long. That was the dynamic in the Newbie game where I replaced in a scum slot with Egix as partner.
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:33 am
by fferyllt
In post 872, unwnd wrote:That being said, we can go the other way. We could all just agree to vote Ivyeo, and that is a scenario both of you seem more willing to think about. That comes down to what Ivyeo has to say however, because some part of me does feel bad for her. Looking back on her own posts I was scumreading her lack of attribution over the course of time, and especially the instance where it suddenly seemed like something clicked for her. However, that is just one instance amongst a bunch of posts that are mostly cautious and unsure. Is it just that her own confidence was taken from her once she was wrong? Or is it because she's afraid of making the wrong move for her partner?
"we could all" includes Ivy's partner, if she's scum and 2 scum if she's not.
I AM thinking about it. There's stuff I want to give her time to react to in the game thread right now. I feel like my reasons for suspecting her are in the thread already, and don't need to be rehashed unless there's something I've missed.
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:37 am
by unwnd
Yeah I'm definitely aware of that, and willing to give her time. I don't know what the deadline is however so hopefully it's sooner rather than later
I feel like you're not really pursuing your reads, unwnd. Not pressing, not questioning, not taking apart our posts into their component atoms.
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:47 am
by fferyllt
It's odd that it fell to me to crawl through the timestamps. I feel like that should have been a key thought in your own mind -- does it make sense that I wasn't hammered before you even arrived on the scene?
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:48 am
by unwnd
I take offense to that and don't feel that way about myself at all
Maybe you just have some expectation of me I don't know about
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:50 am
by unwnd
In post 881, fferyllt wrote:It's odd that it fell to me to crawl through the timestamps. I feel like that should have been a key thought in your own mind -- does it make sense that I wasn't hammered before you even arrived on the scene?
When it comes to a clutch situation, I put on a brave face and start listening to my gut. There's a ton of innerworkings going on but you simply have to believe they're there. I don't want to tell you about the past 3-4 hours of this game I was thinking about while driving, right down to what exactly what I was going to say. That isn't productive nor is it bringing me closer to being understood. When it came to your hammer-- I didn't think about it. I only noticed it because you said something, but before then I was already going 'yes ffery town' and felt compelled to start there.
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 8:57 am
by fferyllt
In post 882, unwnd wrote:I take offense to that and don't feel that way about myself at all
Maybe you just have some expectation of me I don't know about
I've been wondering if your general not-happiness-with-mafia is in play. And, aside from the game where you replaced in as my scumbuddy I don't have direct experience with replace-in you.
you fought your elim really hard in that game. :/
This, I dunno. Maybe it's that I'm used to seeing you process games in real time for the most part. This doesn't feel like Xenoblade-you or Tenet-you right now.
Maybe my expectations are bad.
I'm going to go skim some of your recent games I didn't play.
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:06 am
by unwnd
TENET took a lot out of me, like I probably left about 5% of myself with that game. And my god that was only D1. There was also booneytunez where I had Cakez/MathBlade called as scum and I fought 5000+ posts and then eventually just tilt replaced out because I couldn't suffer another 5000. My next game after that was FL v Flavor Leaf where the care less attitude became more adopted, and I wanted to reinstate myself. The sparks you saw in TENET/Xeno are absolutely still there, but it would take a lot for me to get there. In some regard, I don't want to because it's just such an obsessive place to be. If I can reap the same results with maybe less transparent effort then I'll do it. It will save me some trouble and I'll feel less responsible for the outcome as well.
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:11 am
by unwnd
FL v Hectic*
Just in case you wanted to go view it
I also have a scumgame that I won by winning a CC battle, you can view that too; Mini Normal 2187
I think the difference in style/way I talk about my reads should be telling enough
unwnd wrote:Do you guys want to-the-point blunt unwnd or subtly-inferring unwnd
Which unwnd are you here? Is there another?
-------------------
That resonates. Tenet took a lot out of me, too. More because of being so wrong in places, though not getting correct scumreads elimmed was also tough.
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:21 am
by unwnd
I think it is genuinely impossible to play 1:1. People just go through a wide range of emotions including myself. There is a unnecessary need for meta these days, so much that I find people will avoid games with unfamiliars. Not saying you are like this but I digress. There is probably tilted-and-doesnt-want-to-post-unwnd along with shitposting-unwnd etc.
As for this unwnd? going-with-gut-hoping-good-intentions-win-out
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:31 am
by fferyllt
I'm meta-informed, not meta-based. I've experienced the pitfalls of cold meta enough times that I'm cautious. It's not so much that I avoid games with unfamiliars as that I seek out games with people I enjoy playing with. At MS, that usually means there will always be some unfamiliars/not-so-familiars in games I play.
In post 860, Lukewarm wrote:and also made everyone (myself included) unsure of their town reads on Ivy.
Can you tell me what this exactly means? Are you still thinking it's me/FFery?
ffery has been steadily working away at the idea that Ivy could be scum all through out Day 3. I feel like she has tried a bit to get me to consider a Bell/you + Ivy possibility. I still don't see that combination as possible, but I am cracking a bit on my hard Ivy is town stance, and am becoming less sure if you or Ivy are ffery's partner. But imo, that is an issue for Day 4 Luke to deal with.
In post 848, fferyllt wrote:Give yourself agency if that's what's holding you back. The way you're playing right now scares me. You want me to reevaluate Bell, but I need YOU to process the game now. Bell's gone and none of the questions I want to ask him can be asked now.
I feel I've talked about my own disposition and I don't feel privy to repeat it. My personal feeling is seeing the game in two ways
1) You/Luke are sweating in a mafia PT together while trying to maintain the proposed image throughout this whole day, while a despondent town Ivyeo feels like she has no voice
2) One of you/Luke is shielding Ivyeo
I am proposing the 2nd option right now and have been since I repped in. However, I don't want to be fooled. I don't want to be the person who says 'let's rethink this' then have Ivyeo just end up town. The question I have to ask you is this: in a situation where scum is one lim away from victory, do you think now would be the time to bet it all? Do you still scumread Lukewarm? I've seen you two slowly backing off from another
If you want to push a me+ffery team, more power to you, but I honestly cannot imagine anyone considering me+Ivy after Bell left that vote on ffery. That would have been a slam dunk win.
Bell's vote on ffery proves that one of the two must be scum. It does not necessarily prove which is scum, but it proves that one of them are. The fact that both unwnd and ffery are putting it out there that they are considering scum teams that do no include the other one is completely baffling to me.
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:40 am
by unwnd
In post 890, Lukewarm wrote:Bell's vote on ffery proves that one of the two must be scum. It does not necessarily prove which is scum, but it proves that one of them are. The fact that both unwnd and ffery are putting it out there that they are considering scum teams that do no include the other one is completely baffling to me.
What do you think about the timestamps ffery pointed out? Even if that argument involves you
In post 793, Egix96 wrote:What I will say, though, is that there's a certain person I've talked myself into thinking is scum.
Tl;dr that person was Luke.
Oh my god, get me out of this game....
In post 860, Lukewarm wrote:This is what I have seen from ffery, that terrifies me, and is the main reason I came into today saying that I do not want to go into Day 4 with both me and ffery.
She replaced in, and multiple people had her slot pinned down as scum. And she started posting, and posting, and posting, and she managed to crack that perception. And then she kept posting and posting and posting, and managed to convince the entire lobby that Demainer was the correct vote.
Spoiler:
While I did think that Demainer was scum, I openly advocated against voting him off Post 611, I outlined that a vote against demainer, if he did flip town, would put us in a much more precarious position then voting ffery (and here we are)
But ffery kept posting, and posting, and posting, and all 4 members of town followed the vote she recommended. Like, from my PoV all 4 votes on Demainer were town, and that terrifies me.
And then today, she has posted, and posted, and posted. She is 43% of all posts today, in a 5 person game. And she has successfully talked Egix into thinking I am scum, and also made everyone (myself included) unsure of their town reads on Ivy.
Fferyllt keeps saying that she would never play this way as scum, but from my PoV the way she is posting is very successfuly leading the town to its own destruction. She convinced the town that her slot shouldn't be locked under suspicion, she convinced the town that we should vote out Demainer, she convinced the confirmed town that I am scum, and she has convinced everyone to become suspicious of Ivy.
If we do not vote out Fferyllt today, please vote me. Put me out of my misery.
Hate to break it to you, but this attitude isn't doing much to make me change my mind :/
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:28 am
by Lukewarm
In post 892, Egix96 wrote:Hate to break it to you, but this attitude isn't doing much to make me change my mind :/
Then I don't know what else to say. If Egix is scum reading me, then we are probably going to lose, so I guess I am going to take a gamble.
I am going to vote fferyy, and intend to keep it there until the end of the game. If I am town + fferyy is town, we lose, but I am pretty sure that combo was going to lose no matter what from this game state.
I would still recommend everyone else, who is town, to hold off voting until the end of the day.
If we don't lose, then I think this proves one of the two of us must be scum.
VOTE: fferyy
Once everyone has checked in, if we don't lose, then at least we have some new concrete info to go off of.
because of Bell's vote, one of unwnd+fferry must be scum
and because of this vote, one of luke+fferry must be scum
we can work on it from there.
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:30 am
by fferyllt
sigh.
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:34 am
by unwnd
I'm going to be honest that just sounds like scum who has run out of options
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:36 am
by fferyllt
Unwnd, because of bell's vote I feel like you have to be scum. regardless of whether a Lukewarm/Ivy team had opportunity to arrange a quickhammer.
Why on earth would town-Bell leave his vote on me and leave the game with no way for that vote to be removed until a replacement was found?
I feel like your push on Ivy suggests that she's not your partner, even though I have some doubts about her on her own.
Maybe Luke makes this play as scum? I can't even make sense of where his head is at this point.
That vote has broken me.
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:39 am
by unwnd
I think to him it was a hero vote, and maybe it was
But your reactions to everything, your general discourse and presence. Does not seem like scum to me. We can both be fools in the end if you want
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:46 am
by Lukewarm
In post 895, unwnd wrote:I'm going to be honest that just sounds like scum who has run out of options
I mean or town who has run out of options.
If I do nothing, and Egix ends the day with a scum read on me, we lose the game. No matter how hard I try, I cannot keep up with the sheer volume of posts coming from you and fferyy, so talking it out seems pointless.
The mafia team gets two shots at this. If Egix chooses one of them, they still get to go on to day 4. I don't have a second shot here. If I am the vote today, I lose. So hail marry attempt to limit all possible ways for this game to be read. Assuming this game does not end the moment Ivy logs on, this play will lock the game state in to exactly two possibilities.:
Either, the team is me+undwnd OR fferyy is scum.
Once we have limited down all possibilities that need to be considered, maybe we can get somewhere.
Posted: Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:50 am
by Lukewarm
In post 897, unwnd wrote:I think to him it was a hero vote, and maybe it was
But your reactions to everything, your general discourse and presence. Does not seem like scum to me. We can both be fools in the end if you want
Do you not see that this stance does not help me in my postion? lol
From my PoV, it is quite literally impossible for you and fferyy to both be town.
Not that it matters if you are scum
, but if that is the stance you are taking, and you are my town mate, what alternative do I have to this play?