Mini 1567 - Such Unusual Pretermen... ...Evil Too!


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Post Post #900 (ISO) » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:52 am

Post by Lowercase »

He said it turned him into Darcy and that he is now PGO-ish.
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Post Post #901 (ISO) » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:08 am

Post by LoudmouthLee »

Just me, or too much information slip from Beli?

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Post Post #902 (ISO) » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:11 am

Post by Formerfish »

Knew about the Darcy switch, missed the PGO admission.
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Post Post #903 (ISO) » Fri Jun 06, 2014 4:41 am

Post by Empking »

Vote Count Thirty-Seven: Meet me 'n'eaven


Cho (3)- LowerCase, Jul, Belisarius
Nobody Special (3) - FormerFish, MTD, Cho
FormerFish (1) - Nobody Special

Not Voting: Kagami, LoudMouthLee

With Nine alive, it is Five to lynch

(expired on 2014-06-13 07:36:50)

The flavour of the kills in the first post are relevant.
Plus, if you guys want to make a point, skip the walls, because everyone else in the game does as well. - Magister Ludi
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Post Post #904 (ISO) » Fri Jun 06, 2014 5:52 am

Post by Belisarius »

What else do you supposed it does, turns Ray Liotta into a centaur?
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Post Post #905 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:10 am

Post by Juls »

I'm really uncomfortable having this transformer in my hands. I have tried to think what is the best course of action with it. The only one who has been "transformed" by it is NS who I explicitly don't trust. So I have five options: 1) use it on someone that I think is town. This could be good and it transforms them into goodness. It could be bad and transform them into badness. It's a risk. 2) use it on someone I think is scum. Same risks as using it on someone I think is town. 3) use it on myself. Since I am already transformed, I don't know if it will put me back to vanilla or if it will do something else. At least I would know what it does. With all 3 of these choices, I would have to pass it. And there is a whole other thought process about that. 4) I could pass it and not use it. This is probably the least likely because then I am just passing the buck to someone else to figure it out. Or 5) I could not use it at all.

I am open to suggestions but ultimately I will make the final decision and won't reveal what I am doing before the night.

@LML - I agree with your suspects list but don't like the idea of lining up lynches in general. A lot can change between now and then. It will also make people lazy and either they won't scum hunt or be resigned to their fate and quit trying if they are in fact town.
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Post Post #906 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:17 am

Post by Nobody Special »

You could use it on a dead Townie.
....what?



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Post Post #907 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:17 am

Post by Nobody Special »

....or dead scum, but I think that's a bad idea, for what should be obvious reasons.
....what?



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Post Post #908 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:21 am

Post by Juls »

Oh yeah...a 6th option that I forgot about. That has it's own risks. Zombies immediately come to mind.
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Post Post #909 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:39 am

Post by Lowercase »

As far as I'm aware, alignment changing mechanics are considered bastard unless it is known that they might possibly exist beforehand.

Outside of that, there is only so much negative utility a transformer could bestow on a Vanilla (the only serious problem would be if it made someone suicidal). All in all, I don't think the transformer could possibly be all that dangerous.
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Post Post #910 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:50 am

Post by Juls »

What do you think it would do to a dead person? Bring them back into the game?
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Post Post #911 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:05 am

Post by Nobody Special »

Well, it "transforms" -- and the only meaningful way to transform a dead person is to make them alive. That's the only thing I can think of.
....what?



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Post Post #912 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:07 am

Post by Lowercase »

Could make them a restless spirit/treestump.
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Post Post #913 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 3:12 am

Post by Lowercase »

I would imagine that if someone might be brought back into the game, they probably wouldn't have access to a dead QT. So I doubt just anyone could be brought back.
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Post Post #914 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:00 am

Post by Formerfish »

I'd say use it on a dead townie. Seems like it would be cool.
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Post Post #915 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:21 pm

Post by Kagami »

I can imagine lots of things it might do to dead people. Revival seems very unlikely, since that would be completely broken. Treestumping/restless spiriting don't seem as helpful as making a new PR, and there's a very good chance it simply does nothing, or transforms the dead into corpses of their characters.

If you find NS suspicious, then the obvious best thing to do is to zap a VT so that we can confirm NS's claim. Transforming the dead seems like a bad idea.
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Post Post #916 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:28 pm

Post by Formerfish »

And if he is scum and there is a negative utility to that ability we'll know as well. Just hope its not too bad of a thing.
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Post Post #917 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 2:30 pm

Post by Kagami »

If it did something like that though, he'd have absolutely used it and passed it to his buddy on N1.
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Post Post #918 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:19 pm

Post by Formerfish »

Unless he didn't know what it does, and nothing says that he knows now. Nothing he has said can be proven and all adds to the massive amounts of Wifom that we are facing. I have no idea what my ability does, only that it changes peoples roles. His could be much of the same but with negative consequences.
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Post Post #919 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 4:51 pm

Post by Lowercase »

Imo, there isn't really that much question about the positive utility of the role. The only possibility for WIFOM is if NS is scum and I doubt he is. We have lots of confirmed information about the transforming roles.

Either way, the best thing we are looking at with targeting dead people is probably some kind of treestump or restless spirit. Maybe revival, more likely nothing. Imo, zapping a town-read and passing to a different town-read is the optimal usage for the ability.
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Post Post #920 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:10 pm

Post by Nobody Special »

In post 918, Formerfish wrote:Unless he didn't know what it does, and nothing says that he knows now. Nothing he has said can be proven and all adds to the massive amounts of Wifom that we are facing. I have no idea what my ability does, only that it changes peoples roles. His could be much of the same but with negative consequences.
I could say the exact same thing about you and your ability.

Just sayin.
....what?



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Post Post #921 (ISO) » Sat Jun 07, 2014 5:30 pm

Post by Formerfish »

Something is niggling at me about NS and his claims so far, I'm just having trouble wrapping my head all the way around what it is and how best to verbalize it. Something seems very off about the roles and and the way he has used them.

Pedit- except two people have come forward to admit to being transformed as a result of my actions. You on the other hand only have the transmission of a dohickey.
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Post Post #922 (ISO) » Sun Jun 08, 2014 1:54 am

Post by Belisarius »

I'm going to giggle my nuts off if both NS and Fish wind up being town.
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Post Post #923 (ISO) » Sun Jun 08, 2014 5:33 am

Post by Kagami »

In post 922, Belisarius wrote:I'm going to giggle my nuts off if both NS and Fish wind up being town.
I think that's reasonably likely. I hate walls, but I'll make one to summarize what I've said so far regarding this and add a couple more points:

Spoiler: NS
His play has been bad so far; he chose not to use his power the first two nights, and his reads list from day 2 had some pretty ridic points (specifically, scumread on LC, who to his mind should have been confirmed gunsmith given his being a gunsmith miller). I also don't like Josh's mention of a possible passable item.

BUT

He kind of always misses night actions and does anti-town things.

He has not used his role the way scum likely would. He didn't have to claim that it's passable, he did. He could have passed it back and forth with his buddies, or even passed it off without telling people that he originally had it.

His claim of "laser gun without battery" seems too odd to disbelieve, and fits somewhat with the sort of flavor FF has claimed. From what we can tell, this ability is simply "gunsmith miller," once again implying town.

We'll find out tomorrow if the transformer has a pro-town effect, which it almost certainly does if it actually changes people into their picks (implying the power is identical to FF's). If it does, then it makes no sense for scum to be allowed to not use it. Usually scum-has-protown-ability means that the ability is compulsive (as it was in SUPREME 1).

Lastly, I find it incredibly unlikely that NS didn't send the PM to empking he claimed in . Empking seems to be logging on exclusively to mod this game. NS tells us at 5:04pm that empking has sent him an answer to his PM, and there's a votecount at 5:07pm. That's a pretty freaking incredible coincidence if NS is lying about having received a reply. It's possible that NS sent a message about something else or that NS asked "If I were town, how would you reply to..." but I find that very unlikely coming from NS.


Spoiler: FF
I actually don't fully understand some of the townreads headed in his direction. I find his play neutral if not a little fishy (haha, get it?).

His role as we understand it does imply town, though. He nerfed Who/LC, but even if he is scum, I don't see how he would have known that would happen. Juls hasn't complained about whatever happened to her, so we can assume the ability is positive utility. As we learned from SUPREME 1, pro-town ability doesn't mean town, but does usually mean compulsive if scum, and it seems reasonable to believe that FF did in fact do nothing night 1. (An alternative possibility is that he can't target himself or anyone he's targeted before, which means he could have zapped his partner night 1, but his posting habits partially corroborate his excuse for missing the night 1 action.)

Also, while the compulsive monkinator of SUPREME 1 couldn't simply kill the newly made monks (since the monkery was bulletproof), there's no obvious reason FF couldn't just kill his transformation targets the same night he zaps them. If Juls has become something snowball-y, like LC did, then it also makes little sense that FF is scum, since a snowballing mechanic implies that the zapped person is supposed to stay hidden.
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Post Post #924 (ISO) » Sun Jun 08, 2014 9:32 am

Post by Formerfish »

How does the flavor match what I have claimed?
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