Mafiascum.net

In post 899, Ranger wrote:

PantherPunt wrote:Ranger- can we talk your read on florestan real quick?

I don't see what's important about it, but I also don't see any reason why not to, so sure. We can talk about Florestan.

duppin wrote:Ranger, imagine if ploben is town for a moment, do you think scum would be on his wagon?

Probably not.

I'd have to check who did and didn't vote ploben to get a firm opinion. ploben is not a lynch I see scum going for. If ploben is scum, the reason is obvious. If ploben is town, the reason is to avoid being caught on an easy mislynch.

You said you town read her for disagreeing with your list. That's kind of light though. Don't you expect more from her? She's more analytical and has a lot more to say as town, wouldn't you say?

Also loving the wagon on me.

There's one name on it I wouldn't lynch.

One.

That being, Florestan.

Otherwise, surprise surprise.
It's an incredibly scummy counterwagon. With absolutely no resistance.

Not sure why you're assuming Florestan is a girl by the way

In post 901, Ranger wrote:It's an incredibly scummy counterwagon. With absolutely no resistance.

You realize that if it's a counterwagon it would HAVE to be for Kuroi, and not ploben/karnos, right?

PantherPunt wrote:You said you town read her for disagreeing with your list.

That's not what I said.

I said it was the Florestan treated my list.

Florestan was the player, and I do mean player, who treated my lists as I expect someone to treat my lists: reading them off of their content. Florestan's reads are nearly opposite of mine. Florestan apparently holds the belief my reads should be good. Florestan, as town, who holds reads, will presumably hold a similar philosophy towards reading to me: assuming are right. Under Florestan's belief, that they are right, and Ranger should be a good player, yet Ranger's reads are opposite of theirs, it would naturally follow from a town perspective to be suspicious of (and eventually vote) me.

Don't you expect more from her? She's more analytical and has a lot more to say as town, wouldn't you say?

This is my first game with Florestan. It's horrible to say that I suspect Florestan's an alt, but unless Florestan explicitly says that, I'm going to assume it is in fact Florestan's first game with me. So I would have no way of saying.

The whole point of that was an attempt to trap ranger into admitting she knows flor is an alt and that she has played 4-5 games with HIM before. My bad...flor is just a feminine sounding name (but I checked the main)

I wanted to rule out a flor/ranger scum team

But I can't really with how that was written...with acknowledgement of the alt

I also thought the way kuroi said "nice to meet you florestan" or whatever sounded like a faked distancing interaction

Dunnstral wrote:You realize that if it's a counterwagon it would HAVE to be for Kuroi, and not ploben/karnos, right?

Not necessarily, but also not out of the question.
If I'm wrong on a scumread, Kuroi is scum.
It would therefore hold that Kuroi was being wagoned, and I am the counterwagon.
If I'm right on all my scumreads, Kuroi could not be a town-driven wagon (Not with those names on it), and therefore the wagon on me must be a scum-driven counterwagon to someone else, i.e., ploben.

In short: it's possible I'm a scumdriven counterwagon to Kuroi. I'm not ruling the possibility out, especially given that my scumreads are not always right.
It's not the only possibility.
But the nature of the wagon should make it plenty clear either way: it is a scum-driven counterwagon. The only thing in question is to what, and why.

In post 899, Ranger wrote: Probably not.

I'd have to check who did and didn't vote ploben to get a firm opinion. ploben is not a lynch I see scum going for. If ploben is scum, the reason is obvious. If ploben is town, the reason is to avoid being caught on an easy mislynch.

Alright. Let me rephrase the question then. If ploben is town, what would that mean to your scum reads?

PantherPunt wrote:The whole point of that was an attempt to trap ranger into admitting she knows flor is an alt and that she has played 4-5 games with HIM before.

Like I said, I don't know who Florestan is. The attitude of, "my reads conflict with Ranger's, and I'm town, she must be scum" is something I'd associate between {Raskolnikov, beeboy, RadiantCowbells} (only those three), but Florestan doesn't seem like an RC alt. Furthermore, Florestan's attitude of saying I must be a god is not something I'd expect from Rask or beeboy, especially not beeboy, since both know the humanity between my methods, of assuming I'm right while acknowledging I could be wrong. So if it wouldn't be one of those three, then I can't see it as being someone who is actually that familiar with me, so I wasn't sure. Some things made me suspect (as above), others made me doubt, but ultimately, until you just now got me engaged in this conversation, I wasn't going to bring up the alt discussion at all since if Florestan is not an alt, it's incredibly rude to accuse them of being one and I didn't want to offend them.

duppin wrote:If ploben is town, what would that mean to your scum reads?

First instinct: keep the Dunnstral and PantherPunt scumreads, and substitute in a Kuroi scumread. Especially since they're now doing the very thing they accused Kuroi and myself of doing: pressure mounting on Kuroi, and then going, "WELL NOPE LET'S LOOK AT RANGER INSTEAD". Which is utter hypocrisy.

In short, I dare you to say this is not an accurate summary of events:
>Dunnstral/PantherPunt accuse {Ranger, Kuroi} as being scum pressuring each other, yet refusing to let that pressure amount to anything.
>Dunnstral/PantherPunt are, therefore, pressuring Kuroi.
>Both end up voting Ranger, and encouraging others to do so.
>In the process, they are refusing to let pressure on Kuroi amount to anything.

Don't worry I fully intend to go after Kuroi tomorrow regardless of whether you flip mafia or town

In post 910, Ranger wrote:>In the process, they are refusing to let pressure on Kuroi amount to anything.

That's something you'd have to call us out on, on day 2. I have every intention of hard pushing Kuroi tomorrow, and you can call me out on it if I don't.
Well, I mean, I guess you won't be able to....

Anyone else notice that Karnos is pretty much nonexistent since people started townreading him?

Dunnstral wrote:Don't worry I fully intend to go after Kuroi tomorrow regardless of whether you flip mafia or town

And therein lies the difference between you and me.

You are avoiding someone you say is scum regardless of circumstances, to go after someone you say could be scum or town.

I am going after people I'm saying are scum regardless of circumstances, and won't go after someone who could be scum or town.

Dunnstral wrote:That's something you'd have to call us out on, on day 2.

Can't have your cake and eat it too. By this logic, you also cannot call either Kuroi or myself out on it until D2.

In post 910, Ranger wrote:In short, I dare you to say this is not an accurate summary of events:
>Dunnstral/PantherPunt accuse {Ranger, Kuroi} as being scum pressuring each other, yet refusing to let that pressure amount to anything.
>Dunnstral/PantherPunt are, therefore, pressuring Kuroi.
>Both end up voting Ranger, and encouraging others to do so.
>In the process, they are refusing to let pressure on Kuroi amount to anything.

I pressured kuroi "too much" and he said he's taking his ball and going home

(Told me to fuck myself basically)

I kept having to ask multiple times for answers to questions, reads, etc and apparently it was too much pressure

I encourage any and everyone to look at 764

This is right about when kuroi told me I'm asking too many questions and told me "now you get nothing!"

PantherPunt wrote:I pressured kuroi "too much" and he said he's taking his ball and going home

This still doesn't hold, because guess what I've been doing?

Kuroi refused to play your game, instead saying he'd play his own.
I'm refusing to play your game, instead playing my own.
Again. You're trying to both have your cake and eat it too.

764

For your convince. (Hit submit accidentally before going to preview to add post tags)

In post 917, Ranger wrote:

PantherPunt wrote:I pressured kuroi "too much" and he said he's taking his ball and going home

This still doesn't hold, because guess what I've been doing?

Kuroi refused to play your game, instead saying he'd play his own.
I'm refusing to play your game, instead playing my own.
Again. You're trying to both have your cake and eat it too.

What the fuck are you talking about

Kuroi flat out refused to answer a direct question about a post. And a direct question about just giving names of scum and town reads.

How am I trying to have my cake and eat it, now?

In post 913, Dunnstral wrote:Anyone else notice that Karnos is pretty much nonexistent since people started townreading him?

I've noticed.

No, really you should see a clear pattern in my posting. I work until 3:30pm EST in a job that makes it very easy for me to post at work. After 3:30, I have to pick up my son from daycare, often need to do chores, cook, dinner, watch my son, etc.

So usually from 3:30 EST to about 8:30 or 9ish when my son falls asleep, my ability to post is very limited. Even after 9pm, sometimes I can't post... really my best time to post is at work. I can read the thread a bit though, which is why I am posting this brief post now, but I can't focus on the game enough to post multiple back and fourth arguments, do iso checks, etc. I can't play as I like to play, so I mostly lurk.

My opinion of what I have just been reading- ranger's wagon seems to be growing pretty darn fast. I don't think a wagon on scum would grow that fast, unless she is being bussed. I think the idea of lynching her is bad, but if she does flip scum I wouldn't count that as a proof that her wagon is all town.

In post 917, Ranger wrote:

PantherPunt wrote:I pressured kuroi "too much" and he said he's taking his ball and going home

This still doesn't hold, because guess what I've been doing?

Kuroi refused to play your game, instead saying he'd play his own.
I'm refusing to play your game, instead playing my own.
Again. You're trying to both have your cake and eat it too.

This makes me want to break my own rule and unvote Ranger.

In post 799, PantherPunt wrote:Karnos and chip

Can I know where each of you stand on ranger, kuroi, and btd

(Chip I think you told Dunn you'd get to this so pardon me if I somehow missed it..just link me)

Ranger has been nothing but a town read for me, which I find a little ironic since one of my comments about "if she is scum we are doomed" seemed to trigger the initial push to lynch her. Oops.

BTD I had a strong scum read on. Since then, he hasn't really posted, so I can't say I read him any townier after that, but post from the other players I had on my scum list seemed to reinforce my opinion of them repeatedly, so BTD has fallen a bit in my scum ranks, he is still a big alternate scum pick if my main choices somehow flip town.

Kuroi. There is something odd about his posts, but I am not sure if it's a scum indication or just an indication of someone who replaced, posting in turbo mode to catchup, and making a few typos.

If I had to pick one to lynch, it would be BTD. If I had to pick one to investigate at night, it would be ranger.

PantherPunt wrote:Kuroi flat out refused to answer a direct question about a post.

And how much have I refused to answer on the spot, now, hmm?

Yeah, thought so.

You're ascribing a behavior to Kuroi one way, and that same behavior to me in a different one. Or do you want me to quote all the times where you've more or less said that I've refused to elaborate on my scumreads?

karnos wrote:ranger's wagon seems to be growing pretty darn fast. I don't think a wagon on scum would grow that fast, unless she is being bussed. I think the idea of lynching her is bad

Exactly this.

In post 923, Ranger wrote:

karnos wrote:ranger's wagon seems to be growing pretty darn fast. I don't think a wagon on scum would grow that fast, unless she is being bussed. I think the idea of lynching her is bad

Exactly this.

I mean I figured Kuroi was bussing, didn't think you'd admit it though