Mafiascum.net

PART 1

In post 662, dramonic wrote:If he swaps out Koki and Koki was fakeclaiming (which is my primary theory) we're most likely in lylo.

You're also ignoring the possibility of Koki fakeclaiming but there being scum anyway.

In post 693, Pine wrote:So we're all agreed, we're lynching me

In the group we know contains scum

Swapping out confirmed Town for another scumspect like Cakez or Dram

Why so suicidal (repeat from earlier)

In post 706, dramonic wrote:

It's [BuJaber, Wisdom, Kokichi, Pine, Riku].
You don't fuck up the guilty for the lolz because you think you're better than facts.
You lynch the group as is and you get your scum lynch

Regardless of opinion on what dram wants, this rage posting from dram feels rather town.

In post 742, Wisdom wrote: The cop result will still be true tomorrow even if my swap misses

This is a good point.

In post 763, Wisdom wrote:

In post 750, DeasVail wrote:Wisdom, why is it just one scum?

Because me, Kokichi and Bu are 100% town.

I don't see how Bu is 100% town from your POV. Strong town sure but not 100%.

AND NO THATS NOT SHADE CASTING AT BU I THINK THEY ARE TOWN TOO

PART 2

In post 772, Wisdom wrote:And now that im caught up
Unless i see a rational response on why I shouldnt swap Pine for realmen and lynch group3, thats what Im doing and then I am forcing your hand because youre not going to lynch g2 without Pine in it.

I called this

In post 776, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE wrote:my reasoning:

PINE IS BEING A REAL MAN AND WILLING TO DIE WITH HONOR

riku isn't so much

PINE WILLINGNESS TO BE A REAL MAN IS OBVIOUSLY FAKED AFTER HE GOT A BAD RESPONSE TO BEING AN UNREALMAN

In post 783, Wisdom wrote:In other matters I agree with DV that fitz is the G1 scum
His play feels different than town-fitz

glad to see people coming around on this one

people voting 3 pre-swap - what are you doing??
I feel better about DeasVail now.
(realmen, fitz, pine) feels even more likely.
fuck me i was getting close to taking #1 post count then this happened damn

@REAL MAN, this is the last thing i will say on it tonight (if you want to talk about something else, fine, but you're just plain wrong about the logic here and i don't really care if you're wrong and you're town or you're just pretending not to see the obvious because you're scum and you're happy you're getting swapped out)

even if felt really good about both wisdom and kok being town (and i am nowhere near that, which is why i think the safer play is the better option), i would not be arrogant enough to bet the game on it. the optimal play is still the one that guarantees at least one scum and potentially two with no swapping occurring. if you're town and you're wrong about your wisdom and kok reads, you're fucking the game over with the suboptimal play; the only world in which this is an optimal play is if you're sure that wisdom and kok are town. i'm not. i wouldn't bet on it. i'm not going to go along with any plan where the foundation of it is this assumption

i honestly do not care what people think of how i'm playing (i thought this was going to be a relaxing game that wouldn't require me explaining such basic things but here i am). this is the exact reason i stopped playing a couple years ago, only this time i'm not exploding in a fit of rage about it because it isn't really worth it. i'm so sick of towns doing stupid shit based on shitty assumptions that end up being wrong most of the time and i hate having to play with people who can't think logically or are so confident about something that they're willing to ignore best play

it's worse when i waste my time going through the explanation of the pros and cons of certain things only to be ignored (though i would hope most players in this game can see the obvious)

the only thing i'm going to say about it is this: if you're town and you're wrong about wisdom and/or kokichi, you've most likely lost us the game by doing the swap-play. but if i'm wrong and kokichi-wisdom actually an absurd idea, the worst that comes out of lynching that group with no swaps is a scum lynch

consider that before you try to tell me what optimal play is

i'm done with this conversation

good shit muffin

Why do you keep scumreading realmen

@cakez

Realmen is it ok if i swap dram instead of you
The defenses on him are getting me and im just feeling hes town after all

Actually i can just swap muffin
Hes going to save himself with his swap anyway if i dont

Wisdom wrote:Why do you keep scumreading realmen

@cakez

Earlier their ISO looked really crappy with a lot of surface level stuff that looks like scum trying to blend in and upon reviewing that doesn't look to have really changed.
And this new push on Muffin is looking ugly to me, especially since Muffin's most recent post was town af
And then when I asked why people were townreading them the only two who responded were gal who said something about tone and then said she was reconsidering, and Buj who agreed they look scummy.
And then also just PoE if we assume it's 1-1-1 I have decent townreads on Muffin and dram so that just leaves realmen.
I wish I knew who the players were because it could potentially affect my read if my suspicions are right.

Then again if hes scum this will let him have his swap available for the future

bah

the only thing that troubles me is how easily realmen agreed with me
I guess town is expected to disagree with me after all since they don't know im town or kokichi's meta

also no one is considering that if we do the swap and lynch 3 play and we're wrong about the scum in 2 then scum will take whoever the next suspect is and bury their ass with a bunch of obvtown tomorrow

i will probably just swap again with whoever you swap me for

then lynch group 2

because that would be the best play

but i'm willing to sleep on it and think about how much i feel like being a dick after waking up

Still better than lynching the same bunch of obvtown today
At least we get a chance at not being wrong

@cakez

In post 732, zMuffinMan wrote:dram isn't actually a setup cop, buj...

What the hell.. then what he did is confusing and anti-town as hell. It completely distracted me and sent me off on a tangent with regards to the swaps.

In post 745, Wisdom wrote:

In post 670, BuJaber wrote:

I vote we swap koki with RMOJ

If you dont buy into the "koki might be scum" paranoia why are you against swapping pine/riku to group 3 and lynching group 3?

Because of muffin's claim I think we can use both of your abilities in a cooperate way to give us an even better option. Also because we disagree on RMOJ. Sure I'm less sure about my scumread of him but I'd feel a lot better not intentionally saving him from the lynch. He just has bugged me because he does a lot of posturing but hasn't been as consistent with it as he makes it seem. And he seems obsessed with willingness to die as the only basis for reading people. I also can't decide between cake and muffin. I was beginning to townread muffin based on conviction and tone but what he's saying is really bad.

Because I can agree with him that lynching group 3 is not the best move (assuming you both have swaps - if muffin is lying about the swap it's a different story obviously) but lynching group 2 without any swaps is DEFINITELY not the most 'optimal'. It is what scum would try to advocate as the safest option but it's lazy and while dramon and muffin are both right that guarantees 1 scum it also lynches 4 townies 98% of the time.

More on my suggestions coming uo. I need to think about it a little and write it in a separate post.

Okay im currently leaning on swapping dram instead of Realmen
If anyone disagrees and prefers realmen, Im listening

i prefer neither, fwiw!

In post 914, BuJaber wrote:Because of muffin's claim I think we can use both of your abilities in a cooperate way to give us an even better option. Also because we disagree on RMOJ.

Muffin gets to switch himself with fitz or Riku so we lynch even more potential scum
And i can swap dram instead of rmoj if thats a problem

when did you start town-reading dram and why?

Okay first of all

Muffin swaps first

Wisdom doesn't reverse the swap.

We hammer after both swaps.

If any of these things are not done it is a scum claim from the actor.

Are we agreed so far?


Pedit - I don't like dramon at all this game. He's pretty much my number 1 scumread. I might ask you to swap him but it won't be to save him. It would be to put him in a lynchable group 2.

In post 913, Wisdom wrote:Still better than lynching the same bunch of obvtown today
At least we get a chance at not being wrong

@cakez

True I guess
I'm mostly paranoid about someone I'm strongly townreading being the scum because I've been burned hard by that before.

ugh

In post 918, zMuffinMan wrote:when did you start town-reading dram and why?

When DV made me realize being against my suggestion is not as anti-town as I thought
Plus many people townreading him
Plus the fact your insisting he's town probably means he really is town if you're scum

In post 919, BuJaber wrote:Okay first of all

Muffin swaps first

Wisdom doesn't reverse the swap.

We hammer after both swaps.

If any of these things are not done it is a scum claim from the actor.

Are we agreed so far?

Muffin does not agree with the plan so I don't think he's going to swap before I do

In post 919, BuJaber wrote:Are we agreed so far?

no. but continue

and what does the order matter anyway?