https://forum.mafiascum-staging.net/
i have thoughts to share once frogster responds. if i forget to share thoughts, please remind me.In post 895, Tayl0r Swift wrote:what sort of panic do you think im in? what exactly do you think is causing me to panic?In post 887, Frogsterking wrote:Panic from both the tayl0r and CFJ slots.
In post 892, callforjudgement wrote:I think there's a chance that Italiano is confused between the roles "neighbour" and "friendly neighbour"; Italiano has been confirmed to have the first by Walter, and has claimed the second (possibly by mistake). It is possible, even in a Normal, for him to have both. This is why it's important to get a clarification of the claim, because there's a big difference in terms of balance impact and in what we can deduce from Walter's actions.
Not confused and not a mistake. I have a dual-role.In post 892, callforjudgement wrote:@Italiano: Are you a Friendly Neighbour (can confirm self as town), or just a Neighbour (can talk privately)? If you are a Friendly Neighbour, a) who did you confirm yourself to (knowing this will probably let us confirm you as town), b) did Walter know that prior to the end of Night 1?
Alright.In post 894, RCEnigma wrote:Walter isn't confirmed even if Italiano is FN. Whether he knew going into the night or night, there are some large conclusions being jumped to, will consolidate my initial day 2 reads when I do some wagon sniffing.
However Nos town from eod (alright felt like this was true but ehh) as well as gerain. My vote on Shelly was kind of an eod prayer since deadline had already passed (even with the 2 hour delay) I threw it on Shelly thinking it probably wouldn't count but hey if it did we get a flip.
Gerain 100% could have just opted not to hammer and had already established he would probably miss eod.
Regardless I think it's an offwagon day. NM looks more like a pr hunt than anything else and should NOT dissuade off wagon hunting.
But RC, why would scum shoot offwagon if they weren't on the Shelly wagon? Well silly little townie, cuz mafia.
I’m confused. What were you expecting? It sounds like you feel you were duped or something.In post 899, Tayl0r Swift wrote:im concerned because i picked up on the crumb and made an assumption about your role and then hard defended you and walter (especially walter).
There are only two people in the neighborhood. The neighborizer can grow the neighborhood but that’s not a role that we can see.In post 899, Tayl0r Swift wrote:following that, the pressure on walter disappeared. if theres a possibility that walter could be scum (if most/all of you are in neighborhoods it becomes increasingly likely that at least some of you are in neighborhoods with scum). if the pressure on walter disappeared for bad reasons, then we should look back at day 1 and reconsider whether walter is a good push today.
well i was expecting you to be masons. or otherwise be sure of each other's role/alignment, since you said you thought walter is town. unless other people claim to be neighbors as well, its probably safe to assume that walter is town (a T-S neighborhood as the only neighborhood would provide a tremendous amount of disutility to town and would probably not be balanced in a normal game without some really strange other roles), but the point of the neighbor role rather than the mason role is that you can potentially be neighbors with scum. so based on the information you had at the time i dont know why you assumed walter was town. but i guess i dont have access to your pt so maybe theres something there.In post 903, ItalianoVD wrote:I’m confused. What were you expecting? It sounds like you feel you were duped or something.In post 899, Tayl0r Swift wrote:im concerned because i picked up on the crumb and made an assumption about your role and then hard defended you and walter (especially walter).
There are only two people in the neighborhood. The neighborizer can grow the neighborhood but that’s not a role that we can see.In post 899, Tayl0r Swift wrote:following that, the pressure on walter disappeared. if theres a possibility that walter could be scum (if most/all of you are in neighborhoods it becomes increasingly likely that at least some of you are in neighborhoods with scum). if the pressure on walter disappeared for bad reasons, then we should look back at day 1 and reconsider whether walter is a good push today.
Well I think it’s like Masons on steroids. This makes me think that the scum have some extra special powers or it’s a 9-4 setup like Frogster theorized, otherwise it’d be one or the other but not both.In post 904, Tayl0r Swift wrote:well i was expecting you to be masons. or otherwise be sure of each other's role/alignment, since you said you thought walter is town. unless other people claim to be neighbors as well, its probably safe to assume that walter is town (a T-S neighborhood as the only neighborhood would provide a tremendous amount of disutility to town and would probably not be balanced in a normal game without some really strange other roles), but the point of the neighbor role rather than the mason role is that you can potentially be neighbors with scum. so based on the information you had at the time i dont know why you assumed walter was town. but i guess i dont have access to your pt so maybe theres something there.
I have no idea, I can only speak for our neighborhood.In post 904, Tayl0r Swift wrote:as for your second point i realize that its only the two of you in that neighborhood, but there could be other neighborhoods, right?
this felt aggressive. this just based on yesterday's play? Frogster was one of the early members of the shelly wagon, that is interesting though.
everyone needs to reset after a nightIn post 867, Gamma Emerald wrote:I can’t say I expected that execute flip, or that kill
Maybe I need to reset?
a ton of mud thrown in one short post.In post 870, Raya36 wrote:I'm more interested in cfj's theory than I am worried about how he was town reading shelly although I am suspicious of both.
VOTE: Walter
pour quoi?In post 873, ItalianoVD wrote:Or we can just vote you off.In post 867, Gamma Emerald wrote:I can’t say I expected that execute flip, or that kill
Maybe I need to reset?
I don't understand this. you say the reason scum get lynched day one is due to error or luck, but you toss in a 3rd reason which is scum drove it?In post 873, ItalianoVD wrote:Or we can just vote you off.In post 867, Gamma Emerald wrote:I can’t say I expected that execute flip, or that kill
Maybe I need to reset?
why?In post 879, ItalianoVD wrote:@Taylor: I am scumreading Gamma, just so you know.
we are all assuming walter/italiano claims are good I take it. if they are scum, then game is over. [wanted to put this here so I can go "I told you so" at the end of the game]In post 891, Raya36 wrote:Scum!Walter would have likely NKed the FN. Nobody would know for sure if it was luck or if Walter knew.In post 884, Tayl0r Swift wrote:ok but do you know each other's roles? because a scum-town neighborhood is definitely a thing
UNVOTE:
to never try and guess scum kills, at the end of the game I never follow their reasoning in their thread.In post 891, Raya36 wrote:Scum!Walter would have likely NKed the FN. Nobody would know for sure if it was luck or if Walter knew.In post 884, Tayl0r Swift wrote:ok but do you know each other's roles? because a scum-town neighborhood is definitely a thing
UNVOTE:
not in a neighbourhood unlike Italiano. Watching to see who else responds to this, as I can't see any other results in response to taylor's plea yet.In post 897, Tayl0r Swift wrote:at this point it may be helpful for everyone to claim whether or not they are in a neighborhood. no need to claim neighbors, but it would be very helpful for me to understand my role. i can claim/explain everything or at least something based on what people say.
I am not in a neighbourhood.In post 897, Tayl0r Swift wrote:at this point it may be helpful for everyone to claim whether or not they are in a neighborhood. no need to claim neighbors, but it would be very helpful for me to understand my role. i can claim/explain everything or at least something based on what people say.
This doesn't make sense to me. How can you assume that Italiano targeted Walter?In post 891, Raya36 wrote:Scum!Walter would have likely NKed the FN. Nobody would know for sure if it was luck or if Walter knew.In post 884, Tayl0r Swift wrote:ok but do you know each other's roles? because a scum-town neighborhood is definitely a thing
UNVOTE:
WIFOM, but intriguing.In post 894, RCEnigma wrote:But RC, why would scum shoot offwagon if they weren't on the Shelly wagon? Well silly little townie, cuz mafia.
This is a good post. I definitely agree we should have the receiver of the FN message claim by the end of the day so we can confirm italiano is town. And it's also important to know if Walter knew about Italiano being the FN.In post 908, callforjudgement wrote:At this point it's very unlikely that Italiano is scum; a Friendly Neighbour claim is hard to substantiate as scum (you have to keep claiming to target your buddies and/or the nightkill), and easy to prove as town (that's literally what the role does, proving itself as town). It would be helpful to verify that the claim has actually been substantiated before day ends, though, otherwise it'll lead us to be paranoid into future days.
If scum knew that Italiano was a Friendly Neighbour, that would make him an obvious nightkill choice. So it's also useful to know whether Walter knew Italiano was a Friendly Neighbour prior to the end of Night 1; if he did, that somewhat reduces the chance that Walter is scum.
@Tayl0r: mods (and playerlists!) differ on how much utility a T/S neighbourhood gives to town and/or scum. Some mods think that such a neighbourhood helps town (you can quiz your neighbour in the PT, figure out they're scum, and sometimes even figure out their buddies by the way they talk over the game with you); I once caught 2 out of 3 members of a scumteam because I was in a neighbourhood with one of them. But recently, players have had a tendency to assume that neighbourhoods are T/T, so some mods/reviewers will balance a T/S neighbourhood as though it helps scum and put in extra town power to compensate.
This is on the assumption that Italiano told Walter (since he townread him so strongly). Waiting in confirmation of this.In post 909, Looker wrote:
- Who did ItalianoVD target N1?
This doesn't make sense to me. How can you assume that Italiano targeted Walter?In post 891, Raya36 wrote:Scum!Walter would have likely NKed the FN. Nobody would know for sure if it was luck or if Walter knew.In post 884, Tayl0r Swift wrote:ok but do you know each other's roles? because a scum-town neighborhood is definitely a thing
UNVOTE:
Will wait on this to out it. I have an idea of what Taylor's role is but I'll wait on that as well.In post 897, Tayl0r Swift wrote:at this point it may be helpful for everyone to claim whether or not they are in a neighborhood. no need to claim neighbors, but it would be very helpful for me to understand my role. i can claim/explain everything or at least something based on what people say.
OK, yes at this point we definitely need a PT massclaim (i.e. everyone claims "I'm in a PT" or "I'm not in a PT". Players with results should keep them hidden until after everyone has confirmed whether they're in a PT or not (and thus would be a miller to a PT cop).In post 912, RCEnigma wrote:Since we're making assumptions.
Assumption 1: frog is in a hood
Assumption 2: this game is not 9-4
Assumption 3: I can end this game by day 3 potentially.
I'm a PT cop and have a result on someone that is not frog/walter/Italiano.
In post 915, RCEnigma wrote:Player List:
ItalianoVD claims hood
callforjudgement claims no hood
Gamma Emerald
Looker
geraintm
Raya36 claims no hood
Frogsterking claims no hood
Nosferatu
RCEnigma
Tayl0r Swift
WaltertheDunce10 claims hood
I don't know the type or cause of what I'm perceiving to be panic, it's just how I would describe the tone of your posts. I'd expect town to be somewhat relieved or even emboldened over the results of the previous night and day alone. Then fmpov Italiano brings even more good news for town with his claim and I didn't read a positive emotional response from you then either.In post 895, Tayl0r Swift wrote:what sort of panic do you think im in? what exactly do you think is causing me to panic?In post 887, Frogsterking wrote:Panic from both the tayl0r and CFJ slots.
I did not know about Italiano being the FN prior to N1.In post 910, Raya36 wrote:This is a good post. I definitely agree we should have the receiver of the FN message claim by the end of the day so we can confirm italiano is town. And it's also important to know if Walter knew about Italiano being the FN.In post 908, callforjudgement wrote:At this point it's very unlikely that Italiano is scum; a Friendly Neighbour claim is hard to substantiate as scum (you have to keep claiming to target your buddies and/or the nightkill), and easy to prove as town (that's literally what the role does, proving itself as town). It would be helpful to verify that the claim has actually been substantiated before day ends, though, otherwise it'll lead us to be paranoid into future days.
If scum knew that Italiano was a Friendly Neighbour, that would make him an obvious nightkill choice. So it's also useful to know whether Walter knew Italiano was a Friendly Neighbour prior to the end of Night 1; if he did, that somewhat reduces the chance that Walter is scum.
@Tayl0r: mods (and playerlists!) differ on how much utility a T/S neighbourhood gives to town and/or scum. Some mods think that such a neighbourhood helps town (you can quiz your neighbour in the PT, figure out they're scum, and sometimes even figure out their buddies by the way they talk over the game with you); I once caught 2 out of 3 members of a scumteam because I was in a neighbourhood with one of them. But recently, players have had a tendency to assume that neighbourhoods are T/T, so some mods/reviewers will balance a T/S neighbourhood as though it helps scum and put in extra town power to compensate.