Mini Normal 2191 | Endgame

[Maduisha]

yeah I gaslit myself at the top of the page when I said I was wrong, because that only applied if you successfully got lynched

Look at this:

Official Vote Count

Maduisha

(3): samantha97, Maduisha, clidd

Not Voting

(4): maxwell, TheFuzzylogic99, Umlaut, Cabd

With 7 alive, it takes 4 to eliminate.

Deadline

: (expired on 2021-02-06 11:08:00)

It stayed like that for a looong time. It only took an impatient Fuzzy/Cabd/Umlaut for scum!Maxwell to enter autoloss in that proposed scenario. I don't really think this is a realistic approach.

[samantha97]

Not Voting (4): maxwell

[maxwell]

Something about the way Maxwell is actively stalling and then derailing the Maduisha wagon he said he wanted, just as he finally gets it, is making me want it more.

VOTE: Maduisha

Back to L-1 you go. Someone hammer this while we still can.

I'm not allowed to change my mind?

[Maduisha]

Really, in which scenario does scum claim doctor, push his partner whom nobody wants to push before that, and let the wagon sit at E-1 for almost a whole day.

How does this make any sense...

[samantha97]

he had to claim a power role and doctor was definitely not in the game

also letting the wagon sit at e-1 was not in his power, as he wasn't voting on it

and as for why you were voting yourself, it was probably a gambit

nothing's for certain since I'm not omniscient, but it is logical

[Maduisha]

also letting the wagon sit at e-1 was not in his power, as he wasn't voting on it

Yet he's being accused of derrailing now...? Definitely on his power but only when it fits the narrative, lol.

[maxwell]

also letting the wagon sit at e-1 was not in his power, as he wasn't voting on it

Okay, but I'm the reason why the wagonexists in the first place, do you think I try to bus when I've been forced to claim a power role? This is seriously nonsensical.

[maxwell]

samantha's arguments here are very forced.

[samantha97]

you done goofed

[clidd]

Ok, a lot of stuff going on, but I still want Maduisha.

I'm not a fan of Sam, but she still hasn't broken the impression I have of Nep (predecessor), so I'm giving a pass.

Regarding Max, I have some towny and scummy points, but his predecessor (Lenora) still beats the predecessor of his counterpart (Dkkoba), so he also has a pass for today.

It is interesting to note that we still need a flip, regardless of whether it is town or scum (although a scum flip would be fantastic), so speculations of pre-flip partnership are not going to be useful.

[maxwell]

What exactly are you finding towny about nepenthe? On a re-read of their ISO I found them staggeringly mediocre.

[Cabd]

oh sorry I meant the rationale behind targeting clidd

I mean Ive been fairly frank about that choice:

He is a townread.

I don't see cop as always something you hero play with trying to get a guilty. I see it as a way to remove paranoia from the board about players you think could be capable of getting past you extremely well.

I mean in general, I feel like criticism of my choice in shots boils down to disagreement in how optimal it was, which is like...

Put three scummers in a room and you'll find it impossible for them to all agree on anything? Let alone optimal play of a given role?

[samantha97]

I mean Ive been fairly frank about that choice:

I guess I should have been more clear when clarifying lol

I meant maxwell targeting him

[maxwell]

People tend to dogmatically rail against preflip associatives but given the smallish size of the game you have to look at who makes sense as a team and sam's reasoning here isn't good. Sort of staggering that she barely had the energy to do anything for the first few days after replace in but now is furiously trying to tie me to maduisha to ensure the wagon happens.

[samantha97]

yes it happened in a vacuum and not as a response to your behavior

[maxwell]

I thought I already explained it? I thought one of the PR claims was likely fake and mafia was highly unlikely to sac by killing the other and incriminating themselves, and if they did, it's no big deal, better to protect someone I had as a townread.

[maxwell]

Hey Cabd, if you think this wagon's on town, shouldn't you be pushing a counterwagon?

[clidd]

@Max

I'm considering the suspicion about me and the way he differentiated Chumbo (my predecessor) and my entry to have different reads on the slot.

Many errors that I imagine would make more sense coming from a town!Nep acting in an unfiltered way/not reflecting on how your posts would be viewed, than scum!Nep creating a false read progression on me.

If you research, his last game was as scum and his attitude during the game was mostly friendly with whoever was town, but hostile with his own scumpartner. He doesn't seem to be the type of scumplayer who would engage in a 1v1 with town, especially one that apparently would be, theoretically, vocally difficult to eliminate or cast shade.

But again, these are assumptions, I can be wrong.

[maxwell]

I think in this case it could just as easily be unselfconsciously throwing out reads without bothering to check on whether there's a consistent thought pattern, like he could've justbeen commenting without paying attention to who was in the slot because he isn't actually solving and doesn't care to keep track. I can see in some sense the tone but I still feel as though his reasoning behind all his pushes was extremely shallow on review. Ultimately all he really had on voting you was "uses too many words" which pretty shoody. There was also this bit in his iso:

okay yeah... fuzzy's play makes sense in the context of a pr. i guess i can see how they got scumread but it's kind of a reach. people i'd be comfortable voting today are still clidd, definitely cabd. i don't really see zulfy as being particularly towny either, but i'm open to being proven wrong. also - hopefully will be able to commit more time to this game at hours that make sense this week and opening myself up to any questions people might have in order to help themselves read me.

First time he mentions cabd is as a possible vote, the most he said prior to this was that "i'm wary of that slot", it doesn't really make sense as a progression at all and he makes basically no comment on cabd's content itself.

[maxwell]

Speaking of, as I'm revisiting this iso:

okay yeah... fuzzy's play makes sense in the context of a pr. i guess i can see how they got scumread but it's kind of a reach. people i'd be comfortable voting today are still clidd, definitely cabd. i don't really see zulfy as being particularly towny either, but i'm open to being proven wrong. also - hopefully will be able to commit more time to this game at hours that make sense this week and opening myself up to any questions people might have in order to help themselves read me.

My only question to you is if you can expand your read on me in a way where you say literally everything you are thinking, without filters, regardless of whether or not you have an offensive opinion. It is important that I understand exactly how you are seeing me, because then I can tell if you are town or scum fosing me.

my issue with this is that if i fos you, it wouldn't make sense for me to want to appeal to you or prove that i'm town - if i see you as mafia, then i see you as an informed minority which means that i feel confidently that you know i'm town. feels like a bit of a logical disconnect.

in any case, i think it's just your playstyle. sidebar for everyone: i'm going into this without meta and i'd prefer not to look at people's previous games when i say things about playstyle either - i want everyone to feel like they have a clean slate insofar as from me, they'll only be judged on how they play in this game

for me, it's that you say what looks like a lot but is really just a very simple idea expanded on to give the appearance of more content, and i get the feeling you're playing to a specific agenda which is always scum indicative to me. i think town is more natural in how they observe and share their findings and something about you today feels like you're maneuvering to find the easiest person to lynch.

Doesn't this fit that model of behavior? He's pushing at you but being polite about it, trying to appear 'reasonable'.

[clidd]

Ok, I'll be back in 1 or 2 hours. I need a break to think.

If you think that Maduisha is town and Sam scum, just keep the ball rolling and I'll take a look later.

[maxwell]

I don't have a ton more to go on, maduisha stayed committed to her view of the game even as I was tunneling her, where in her situation I'd expect more pushback from scum on me, rather than trying to reason things out.

[maxwell]

well your hunch is bad

if you really don't want to lynch maduisha for some reason then I can vote for cabd if there's support for it

Since I seem to have missed this for some reason the first time, let me answer it: I think cabd's play around this deadline has been exceptionally scummy and I would absolutely still vote him in a heartbeat if there was support there.

[samantha97]

I retract that offer anyway, that was before I realized I had some kind of psychotic episode or something at the top of the page

@everyone else:
https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p12560866

if you look there, he claimed doctor just before cabd claimed cop

I think the logic behind claiming doctor was the commuter aspect of the joat made it less likely to be counterclaimed, but I'm not familiar with how power roles are balanced in games of this size

[maxwell]

I probably don't claim doctor here as scum, too uncomfortable of a fit with the setup. But WIFOM, etc, not worth putting much stock in that argument. Attacking me for the timing of my claim doesn't make sense, though: fuzzy had outed his result on me, I basically have to out from that point. The reason I waited until after he said I was non-VT is that, in the off chance he was lying about his claim, I'd be able to counter him. None of this is scummy, I did what I had to do given the situation. People weren't going to let fuzzy not out a result with hw suspected he was at the time.