Mafiascum.net

In post 899, Lukewarm wrote:My issue, is that you have been giving this vibe since the very start of Day 2, but you were not being sussed until like the last 24 hours

from before then

meh I just went through marci's ISO again and I feel like it's not really fundamentally scummy other than passive play especially with respect to the 3p, and a lack of real engagement with Bingle as a direct result.

Some of that I can possibly imagine being from town since we were talking about eliminating in 6p for a lot of D1, but she doesn't talk to Bingle at all in the main thread until 452/454/459 (very soft/NAI type of engagement), but by then she was already questioning his alignment via her discussion with Luke in both the main thread and the hood.

I don't know what the rules are on directly quoting hood posts that aren't mine (especially since we can all see it other than N_M) but in the hood she argues to Lukewarm that Bingle had him pocketed by WKing him. If she's town, that's pretty insightful analysis prior to any flips when she wouldn't be certain of either Bingle/Lukewarm's alignment. I also don't see any indications of why she was suspecting Bingle in the first place, it couldn't be due to any direct questioning and she hadn't shared any reasons given the point above ^.

By 574 she's disagreeing with / engaging Bingle far more substantially, but this is well after the Bingle/Hopkirk throwdown and it's clear she was already prepared to vote there:

In post 574, marcistar wrote: is he the best vote for today? i think i dont mind voting him but if hes scum im unsure who his partner would be.

while still giving herself an out.

I'm having a hard time truly finding this scummy because my attitude towards EOD1 was much the same, which is also kinda why I had her just shelved as a townread. But it's not inherently townie either because whoever is scum with Bingle would want to start disassociating by this point, so I think it's mistake to rule out potential buddy behavior on that front.

I also noticed one question she asked to Bingle in that same post

In post 574, marcistar wrote:

In post 527, Bingle wrote:I’m townreading all of Dunn/Marci/GL/Luke. People are aggressively ignoring how obvscum norwee and hopkirk are.

what reasons do you have for the dunnstral townread?

had already been covered via Vanders' multiple posts about it, it was a pretty specific reason that Vander had given for voting Bingle, so with hindsight/more care paid to this question I find it odd she hadn't looked in Bingle's ISO to see if he had explained it already herself. Or that she hadn't paid attention to Vander calling it out.

In post 628, marcistar wrote:

In post 616, Lukewarm wrote:So to each of you, do you think Hopkirk and Bingle are TvT?

Do you think someone else would be a better Day 1 elim?

What makes you think they are scummier then hopkirk/Bingle?

If you are wrong, and it is a minelim, do you think it would give us more information then a flip on Hop or Bingle, and if so why?

No, i think its hopkirk town with a possibility of bingle being scum, tho im not 100% sure.

I don't have a better idea, but i don't wanna vote hopkirk so I kept my vote here.. I thought we were meant to be voting inside the 6p group?

Still hesitant to actually vote Bingle, and still trying to shift towards voting elsewhere. She then caves and votes him 3 hours later, again not inherently scum-indicative in and of itself but I can also imagine this as an attempt at distancing given the Bingle elim was likely going through by this point.

sorry EBWOP - I said "very soft/NAI type of engagement" but NAI was not the right term to use there. What I mean more is not-trying-to-sort, like they're just softball remarks back and forth to each other that I can easily imagine being casual scum-scum chitchat theater.

In post 899, Lukewarm wrote:

In post 898, marcistar wrote:

In post 887, Lukewarm wrote:I still stand by day 1 Marci feeling real different from Day 1 Marci in the other game, but this does feel a bit like Marci after she lost her partner...

I really don't like that every single town and every single scum read she has wavered on.

And she does not appear to be solving. It kind of feels like she was not putting in the effort today because she wanted to slide through on all of the town reads she got day 1.

check my other town games, i just dont have motivation when im sused because its not fun usually its me getting tunnel sused when i do that tho.

My issue, is that you have been giving this vibe since the very start of Day 2, but you were not being sussed until like the last 24 hours

This is the truth, and it was mostly just me

anyway, I'm still happy with the marci elim today - I realized that first sentence of my long post just now is also a lil misleading, I mean "not fundamentally scummy" in the sense of "I was hoping to bring an amazing case that would make us all convinced this will 100% end the game but wound up being closer to ehhh yeah I could see her being scum". I'm in no way against hammering her here, mostly just want Hopkirk to have a chance at ISOing and giving his thoughts.

In post 901, GuiltyLion wrote:If she's town, that's pretty insightful analysis prior to any flips when she wouldn't be certain of either Bingle/Lukewarm's alignment.

i just assumed that the way luke was about bingle was weird in a way

In post 901, GuiltyLion wrote:I also don't see any indications of why she was suspecting Bingle in the first place, it couldn't be due to any direct questioning and she hadn't shared any reasons given the point above ^.

wait im dumb where did i start susing him? i can walk u thru my process

In post 901, GuiltyLion wrote:it's clear she was already prepared to vote there:

In post 574, marcistar wrote: is he the best vote for today? i think i dont mind voting him but if hes scum im unsure who his partner would be.

while still giving herself an out.

1.) the vibes were just there
2.) should i not be worried about who his partner would be..? there was a couple votes on him already, and i wouldnt want to end phase too early without being able to wring more out of him i dont have good reads this game so i wanted to get as much out of him as we could

In post 901, GuiltyLion wrote:had already been covered via Vanders' multiple posts about it, it was a pretty specific reason that Vander had given for voting Bingle, so with hindsight/more care paid to this question I find it odd she hadn't looked in Bingle's ISO to see if he had explained it already herself. Or that she hadn't paid attention to Vander calling it out.

awfully bold of u to assume ill backread that far when im just in the moment asking whatever comes to my mind based on recent posts

In post 901, GuiltyLion wrote:Still hesitant to actually vote Bingle, and still trying to shift towards voting elsewhere. She then caves and votes him 3 hours later, again not inherently scum-indicative in and of itself but I can also imagine this as an attempt at distancing given the Bingle elim was likely going through by this point.

i did have hesitance in voting bingle, but if i truly wanted to stay off of him i couldve just easily made up something about forgetting to switch off of the vote i had at that point.
why would i have waited until someone asked me to do it?

so uh, i said i'd do stuff today but then i kind of played a few marathon games instead because it's pretty rare. fortunately i have no plans tomorrow so i will read all of the stuff i said i would

i didn't fully get the Marcy case from what i skimmed to date (not the isos, just recent posts since i last posted properly)

oh damn I didn't realize it was a marathon weekend! I'll def play in some games tomorrow

I think marci's pivot from "my elimination will be good for the game" to arguing with me about voting her is survivalist

Hopkirk I'm mostly operating from the perspective of "marci being scum could totally make sense and would explain why scum!Vander/scum!Dunn worlds don't feel right to me". Her D2 play has been really passive instead of solvey and her associatives with Bingle are entirely in the range of S-S. Also, I'm kinda going by consensus reads of the town as I know N_M and at least 2 of Dunn/Luke/Vander be townies genuinely scumreading marci, if scum engineered a marci miselimination I'm not seeing where

Here in a bit

I'm here, someone vote marci

In post 909, GuiltyLion wrote:I think marci's pivot from "my elimination will be good for the game" to arguing with me about voting her is survivalist

it is survivalist because i dont wanna be mean

man Hopkirk wasn't kidding when he said scum is gonna suffer huh

I'm down to hammer I'll set a self-imposed limit on it for 24h from now, may be earlier if Hopkirk ever gives those thoughts he wants to give or gives the green light

UNVOTE: marci

I get the hammer

In post 913, marcistar wrote:

In post 909, GuiltyLion wrote:I think marci's pivot from "my elimination will be good for the game" to arguing with me about voting her is survivalist

it is survivalist because i dont wanna be mean

Who do you think could be scum, you have good reads so please share if you're town

i did a reread of the Marc iso

242 – ‘I don’t mind being sussed’ changing into 898 - 'i just dont have motivation when im sused because its not fun' is weird
trying to talk Luke out of pushing me with Bingle + voting on Bingle still feels like a good sign
is there wishy washiness? i don't fully understand these concerns

In post 909, GuiltyLion wrote:I think marci's pivot from "my elimination will be good for the game" to arguing with me about voting her is survivalist

Hopkirk I'm mostly operating from the perspective of "marci being scum could totally make sense and would explain why scum!Vander/scum!Dunn worlds don't feel right to me". Her D2 play has been really passive instead of solvey and her associatives with Bingle are entirely in the range of S-S. Also, I'm kinda going by consensus reads of the town as I know N_M and at least 2 of Dunn/Luke/Vander

must

be townies genuinely scumreading marci, if scum engineered a marci miselimination I'm not seeing where

is this less solvey than her other games (Which i haven't read)? - Luke, what are you thoughts here since you've played together a few times right?
given most/all of her other games are in the newbie queue i'm cautious to assume that not being solving is definitely scum indicative

In post 887, Lukewarm wrote:VOTE: marci

I still stand by day 1 Marci feeling real different from Day 1 Marci in the other game, but

this does feel a bit like Marci after she lost her partner

...

I really don't like that every single town and every single scum read she has wavered on.

And she does not appear to be solving. It kind of feels like she was not putting in the effort today because she wanted to slide through on all of the town reads she got day 1.

oh Luke mentioned difference and that's why they're voting Marci
@Luke- can you talk me why you're thinking the bolded bit given scum!Marci would have been very likely expecting Bingle to die there since she pushed back against the wagon on me and voted Bingle?

In post 919, Hopkirk wrote:

In post 887, Lukewarm wrote:VOTE: marci

I still stand by day 1 Marci feeling real different from Day 1 Marci in the other game, but

this does feel a bit like Marci after she lost her partner

...

I really don't like that every single town and every single scum read she has wavered on.

And she does not appear to be solving. It kind of feels like she was not putting in the effort today because she wanted to slide through on all of the town reads she got day 1.

oh Luke mentioned difference and that's why they're voting Marci
@Luke- can you talk me why you're thinking the bolded bit given scum!Marci would have been very likely expecting Bingle to die there since she pushed back against the wagon on me and voted Bingle?

• Day 1 Marci was very active. Like one of the top posters. Providing reads, asking questions, probing others peoples.
  
  During Day 2, Marci claimed Tracker, and no on CC'ed her (was in the newbie queue, and there was a possibility for there to be 1 or 2 PRs, turns out we only had 1). Because no one cc'ed her, and her stated investigation result for Day 1 was a correct guess (claimed did not move and the person was a VT), everyone believed her claim. Her partner ended up being voted that day.
  
  Starting Day 3, so once she was widely town locked by most of the player base and her partner was dead, her activity level dropped drastically. She hardly posted unless someone directly asked her a question or until someone eventually accused her of being a fake claim. Then she came back with somewhat of a defense.

Her play day 1 in that game was wildly different then her play day 1 this game, which is why I assumed she was town this game.

But her play today is very similar to her play starting Day 3 of that game. And I also see the possible similarities of her being near universally town read and 1 of the scum having already been eliminated.

the d3 sounds similar. did anyone else SRing Marci read that game?

Robert said they TR bugs several times but did nothing to argue against the wagon is a negative point
they don't interact with or mention Flow whatsoever (pretty common for new scum to just ignore partners)
Robert says he has a SR but doesn't try and push anyone or vote even while a TR is being voted off (allegedly a stronger TR?)
the vote on Mo feels omgusey in retrospect

^ reading through the Robert iso with the knowledge it's scum that's what sticks out as sus

wrong thread

In post 922, Hopkirk wrote:Robert said they TR bugs several times but did nothing to argue against the wagon is a negative point
they don't interact with or mention Flow whatsoever (pretty common for new scum to just ignore partners)
Robert says he has a SR but doesn't try and push anyone or vote even while a TR is being voted off (allegedly a stronger TR?)
the vote on Mo feels omgusey in retrospect

^ reading through the Robert iso with the knowledge it's scum that's what sticks out as sus

You convinced me

VOTE: Robert