Final Fantasy XIV - A Realm Reborn Mafia (Game Over)

[Head One and Head Two]

I'm officially here and reading from Page 1. If anyone would like me to pay extra attention to particular points, or give me some things to consider while reading, I'd appreciate it.

i am inclined to like this

~manatee

[Qrow and Raven]

Knowing what I know, Mirio is town.

okay this is town!T3

-Qrow

?? im curious about this thought process

~manatee

there's a certain level of obsession with meta T3 has as town I think?

-Qrow

[Head One and Head Two]

If anyone wants to know why I'm quiet now, besides being at work, I'm waiting for less people to be VLA in order to start the discussion up again.

Any particular questions for me I can answer tonight. Nice to see Panda here too.

not a fan of this post at all

~manatee

[Head One and Head Two]

Knowing what I know, Mirio is town.

okay this is town!T3

-Qrow

?? im curious about this thought process

~manatee

there's a certain level of obsession with meta T3 has as town I think?

-Qrow

noted

[Elsa Jay]

If anyone wants to know why I'm quiet now, besides being at work, I'm waiting for less people to be VLA in order to start the discussion up again.

Any particular questions for me I can answer tonight. Nice to see Panda here too.

not a fan of this post at all

~manatee

What did I do now?

[RealCheeks]

Knowing what I know, Mirio is town.

okay this is town!T3

-Qrow

?? im curious about this thought process

~manatee

there's a certain level of obsession with meta T3 has as town I think?

-Qrow

Having just come off a scumgame with T3 he has the same proclivity as either alignment.

[Mirio]

Has T3 fixed his lurkscum meta?

[RealCheeks]

He was not lurkscum. Based solely off the game we played together (mbos) I'd say he is still solidly within his scumrange.

[Qrow and Raven]

Nancy your going to have to change your signoff. People are going to think we're the same person o.o
-R

I don’t think so.

[RealCheeks]

With that said I have like 2 reasons he's prob town and only the one that he could be prob scum so benefit of the doubt today.

-R

[RealCheeks]

I think we could pass as twins Nancy
-R

[Qrow and Raven]

Do I even have to say how obvtown mastina is?

Can I just say that while me showing townness is something I get because I am town and genuinely feel like I've shown some of what makes me town, I'm kinda baffled by how

strongly

the townreads are because while I've shown some of what makes me town, the strongest markers of what make me look town to others (namely, conviction) have been absent so I kinda don't get it? Like, if I were going full-conviction-mode here, I'd not bat an eye at the description of me being obvtown as I'd agree. But I don't feel like I've obvtowned yet--towned, yes, but OBVtowned, not

that

strongly town yet. I've full confidence that I WILL be that obvtown eventually...but I don't feel like me as I currently am warrant that description? Townreads I get (I've done enough to earn them), locktown townreads where I am obvtown beyond any shadow of a doubt, I don't (I've not done enough to earn

that

).

Why is a 4 vote wagon

"Opportunistic as fuck"

?

If you had a flash-wagon on you, and you were town, what would

your

thoughts on the wagon be?

I believe I get where Titus is coming from and I think I just talked myself into a Titus townread because I don't think she fakes that thought process here as scum. (I believe it's within her capacity to fake it as scum, I just don't think she

did

fake it, and think it was genuine.)

Bell
Mirio
dwlee99
Mystic Bears (Noraa + Flea the Magician)
Titus
Head One and Head Two (T3 + ManateeGal)

Mandelbrot (House + Yume)

ArcAngel9
Toogeloo
tictac

Tomorrow Corporation
Whemestar
Sakura Hana
Momrangal
Romance

RealCheeks (RCEnigma + CheekyTeeky)
Elsa Jay
Save The Dragons


SirCakez

Qrow and Raven (Gamma Emerald + Nancy Drew 39)

Hard to tell how town Titus is precisely but I'll take the risk and put her in my strongest town tier.

???

How are we still at the bottom of this list?

[Qrow and Raven]

Explain Dwelee and Elsa.

Well Dwlee's content looks town enough. I'm not sure but he's town enough for now.

Elsa's content looks incredibly lackluster. It overall looks closer to scum not having a good grasp on what to do instead of town, but is not strong because it could just be town not having a good grasp on what to do. So, slightly suspicious, but not extremely suspicious.

I hadn’t even posted!

That was a huge part of the problem.

I realize that you had very very very serious shit going on and that meant a new fresh game was absolutely not on your priority list. But while I realize there's not a great way to handle out-of-game circumstances influencing games, that it's tricky to deal with them, I genuinely feel the way it was handled is indicative of your slot having a higher-than-random chance of being scum.

That's a shitty explanation, lemme see if I can try to better describe it.

Say a scummer was, suddenly and inexplicably, badly V/LA due to a hurricane, as an example.
The absence of the scummer from a game would, explicitly, be expected and NAI due to the bad V/LA thanks to the hurricane.
However, the alignment of the scummer in a game can still differentiate the specifics and how things manifest.
So in spite of the situation being the same regardless of alignment, of the scummer being badly V/LA due to a hurricane in this example, there can still be alignment information to be gleaned in how that V/LA manifested.
It's hard to approach because you don't want to frame things as "the scummer is scum from overplaying their V/LA to gain an advantage and the hurricane was not that bad"--that's the sort of thing you absolutely don't want to say.
But if the scummer as town would do X when badly V/LA due to a hurricane, but as scum would instead do Y when badly V/LA due to a hurricane, you still have a need to point out the difference between X and Y (in spite of the scummer having been badly V/LA due to a hurricane regardless of their alignment and not lying about their circumstances regardless of their alignment).

Hope that makes sense for what I am getting at.

To put it into this game's context, you being gone? Not suspicious. The manifestation of that, however, feels like the Y (scum) rather than the X (town) to me.

Also Gamma kinda looks like scum on his own. You're the easier head to read but just because you're not around doesn't mean I won't try to read you off of your partner's posting.

God, I really thought I put this to rest. What Gamma was referencing is just straight up coincidence. I made a post about it and Gamma jumped to the wrong conclusion. That’s it. Activity is never a reliable basis for reading me and I would think you should know this by now. If I could screenshot our DMs without getting us modkilled I would but I really really don’t want to duscuss absolutely irrrelevant OoG stuff that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this game, so can we please not duscuss this topic anymore? I really wish Gamma had never brought it up because it has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with this game.

[Qrow and Raven]

tictac is mechanically town; just trust me on this one. I'll elaborate on day 4 so hold me to this.

Why day 4?

[Qrow and Raven]

I was only offsite for > 48 hrs and I didn’t even know that the game had begun.

sorry to bring yer rl into things, but there's an implication here about u not having access to a maf pt 4 pre-game planning that should not be ignored. otherwise game having started probs not a surprise.

Well I did get my role pm but it was still in pre-game, so no I didn’t know.

[Qrow and Raven]

[spoiiler=]

ftr multiple sum factions being in a raid and disagreeing on success/fail would lead to undefined behaviour.
so glaring design flaw in the ruleset or this is in fact single ball.

I would imagine fail overrides in that setup. Unwnd is a co-mod, this is going to mechanically sound and have failsafes.

VOTE: Momrangal
i guess

But if she's scum she's actually the role she's claiming.

i mean shes basically claiming the powerset that scum are mod confirmed to have

kinda wish flea would engage with more slots

-Qrow

Flea has gone back to faer reflexive meta because bad brain juju (see Neurodiversity threads and GTKAS), and in large games that actively sucks, admittedly. It's why I don't play many larges. Poking on what I see that I dislike though.

VOTE: Titus

I very strongly agree but Mirio why are you voting Titus? I don't think there's any reason to be voting Titus for that post for anyone that isn't me.

VOTE: Titus

-norbeario

This vote does not come from both of us, I would rather stay on Tictac for now.

I can tell you what it's missing!

It's lacking conviction!

You know how normally in games I get into the "tunnel" mode, where I exaggerate both town/scumreads to be stronger than they actually are? How I will make pushes with confidence and conviction?

I'm struggling to do that this game. Closest I've got is my Qrow/Raven scumread (which might be a bit of the tunnel mode read), and a few of my townreads (Mirio/Dwlee come to mind as exaggerated townreads tho Bell's town enough that the townread on him isn't exaggerated). But I'm struggling to lock people down, and struggling when locking things down to make them be strongly so. I've got basically no conviction here and it fucking sucks.

Give it a bit of time tho, I'm sure that'll change eventually and slowly.

That would do it, I was thinking that but reading over it and was like "yeah but this is mastina... that won't be it."

1. What is Mirio doing?

Fantastic question, because I have no freaking clue.

Ok Bell's town.

I'm pretty hyper aware of my own town tells and even I don't know what tripped the town bell tell in my last few posts.

You posted.

Shit posting, when you seemed pretty alright before.

Letting the game breathe and quiet voices come forward. Mostly just busy today.

Honestly I don't feel you're actually doing much except nullposting. Like you're not even fluff posting.

Mirio is locktown. Sheep me on this after I'm dead.
-tehtehteh

Talk me through it? I really don't like them currently.

Mastina town
Flea town
Elsa Jay town
Qrow town

I’m null on them. I’m not sure how to read Flea and I’m waiting for more from Noraa.

~R

In fairness I think this is our second actual game together?

tictac is mechanically town; just trust me on this one. I'll elaborate on day 4 so hold me to this.

Oh I will, for now I think I have outstanding that needs responding to.

See this is something i've noticed lately.. are people scared of me overreacting or something? :/ I post stuff, I get passed over and boom Flea's doin jack all.

[/spoiler]

Noraa, did you mix us up with RC? We’re both signing our posts with a “R”.

RCE signs with R in RealCheeks and I sign R for Raven.

[Toogeloo]

I am not saying we should not do the raids. I am saying we should let the entire game check in first.

VOTE: mirio
This post gives me tonally gross vibes

given my experiences with games advancing the first step “too early” I agree that mirio’s approach feels a bit scum-motivated. I’ve been on both ends of a town win where a very early D1 scum elim put scum on the back foot for the rest of the game.
VOTE: Mirio

-Qrow

This is where I draw my scum read from your slot, Qrow/Raven. I liked Mirio's request for people to check in before locking in the raid party, and it should have been done. The primary reason you are here though is that you fed right into Cakez vote, which set off alarms for me as possibly trying to get a wagon going on a player who posited a logical and reasonable point of the game state. I felt it opportunistic, and was glad nothing eventually came from it, and more importantly, you attacked Mirio under the basis that they were trying to prevent an early D1 scum elim, when in fact they were trying to slow the game down for the raid formation.

[Qrow and Raven]

I am not saying we should not do the raids. I am saying we should let the entire game check in first.

VOTE: mirio
This post gives me tonally gross vibes

given my experiences with games advancing the first step “too early” I agree that mirio’s approach feels a bit scum-motivated. I’ve been on both ends of a town win where a very early D1 scum elim put scum on the back foot for the rest of the game.
VOTE: Mirio

-Qrow

This is where I draw my scum read from your slot, Qrow/Raven. I liked Mirio's request for people to check in before locking in the raid party, and it should have been done. The primary reason you are here though is that you fed right into Cakez vote, which set off alarms for me as possibly trying to get a wagon going on a player who posited a logical and reasonable point of the game state. I felt it opportunistic, and was glad nothing eventually came from it, and more importantly, you attacked Mirio under the basis that they were trying to prevent an early D1 scum elim, when in fact they were trying to slow the game down for the raid formation.

Okay you definitely missed my point entirely
I specifically said "first step" in quotation marks to indicate I wasn't trying to draw an exact parallel, but making a point that in any other game the elim is the first major decision of the game, but here it's raid entry
also don't like some of the wording here. Why exactly are you glad nothing came of this?

-Qrow

[Qrow and Raven]

I am not saying we should not do the raids. I am saying we should let the entire game check in first.

VOTE: mirio
This post gives me tonally gross vibes

given my experiences with games advancing the first step “too early” I agree that mirio’s approach feels a bit scum-motivated. I’ve been on both ends of a town win where a very early D1 scum elim put scum on the back foot for the rest of the game.
VOTE: Mirio

-Qrow

This is where I draw my scum read from your slot, Qrow/Raven. I liked Mirio's request for people to check in before locking in the raid party, and it should have been done. The primary reason you are here though is that you fed right into Cakez vote, which set off alarms for me as possibly trying to get a wagon going on a player who posited a logical and reasonable point of the game state. I felt it opportunistic, and was glad nothing eventually came from it, and more importantly, you attacked Mirio under the basis that they were trying to prevent an early D1 scum elim, when in fact they were trying to slow the game down for the raid formation.

I obviously didn’t agree with that.

Gamma are we still voting Mirio because I think that’s a mistake.

~R

[Qrow and Raven]

Yeah, I took the vote off after he posted more and his posting felt genuine

-Qrow

[Mystic Bears]

I was hoping to do round 2 of catching up but I'm afraid I don't have the time. Hopefully I won't be online at all tomorrow because I have some things I want to be doing tomorrow. I may or may not be here tomorrow, we'll see I guess.

-satbearbear

[Titus]

Mod: The only three mafiascummers attending Titusmeet are myself, House and Mathblade. It had low attendance because of distance I suppose. We're still rocking it though.

Note to self, based on vc look at Cakez and Elsa team possibility.

[tictac]

I specifically said "first step" in quotation marks to indicate I wasn't trying to draw an exact parallel, but making a point that in any other game the elim is the first major decision of the game, but here it's raid entry

okay, that's not even where ur quotation marks are..
it's so easily checked, i dont even think u intentionally being deceptive, but I also don't think there was a pause for an introspection and a memory between the accusation and the response. it's like u on some weird autopilot.
the earlier thing was me thinking Raven not being aware of gamestart may be a towntell, and i do still think that, but oh man

[Mandelbrot]

Why is a 4 vote wagon

"Opportunistic as fuck"

?

Don't have to really attack anyone if you vote the slot on vla.

Oh, well if that's how it works...

VOTE: Titus

This should be an easy lim, then.

[Mandelbrot]

^ House