From what I've seen, you seem to have a lot of trouble with that
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:48 am
by Greeting
In post 901, StrangeMatter wrote:I'm sorry (if I'm pulling a Val89 here) but, there is no way you on pure randomness stumble into the exact same thing someone else has said.
So you're implying I copied some of my reads from catboi and implosion word for word. Can you point me to some examples please? It would actually be very interesting if they really are alike - and a good sign as well. If I managed to establish a circle of people I can trust for myself, I'll be able narrow the pool of suspects. Otherwise, this game is going nowhere.
@catboi @implosion - do you think that StrangeMatter's claim about me copying your reads "word for word" is true?
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:49 am
by StrangeMatter
Go ahead and check you two. I've already shown one of the two.
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:50 am
by catboi
In post 881, Greeting wrote:In conclusion, Val89 looks like he's playing a game of his own.
I think this is a basically correct assessment that doesn't have a real bearing on his alignment
StrangeMatter I mostly am just confused why they're seemingly universally above null; it feels like they've played quite on the outskirts today, haven't really committed to any hard stances or... voted at all yet. If you're town then they could easily be scum coasting on a good gamestate. Or if you're scum they'd make sense as a partner.
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:56 am
by catboi
I can write more words on this but in this case you might want to check his meta
What I see you doing is making a more or less true assessment of his play that is not actually a scumtell and can squarely fit into the mold of a town player with an outsized ego.
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:57 am
by catboi
What I also think is when I finally pushed him past his breaking point it came in a towny way and not a scummy way
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 6:59 am
by StrangeMatter
I will admit I was wrong on the catboi part about thinking the scumteam is frogfrogs and val89 though (I think, I reread and he said he found them individually scummy). But this is just really weird.
StrangeMatter I mostly am just confused why they're seemingly universally above null; it feels like they've played quite on the outskirts today, haven't really committed to any hard stances or... voted at all yet. If you're town then they could easily be scum coasting on a good gamestate. Or if you're scum they'd make sense as a partner.
- Ever since entering the game they seem to be comfortably sitting on the fence, questioning and judging around, but without going into any concrete direction. Sure, it's okay if one doesn't like my self-hammer play (374, 385) I respect that. Sure, it's okay if one thinks I'm harming town (673). It feels to me like commenting on whatever I'm doing at the moment and questioning me is an easy way to get towncred without actually doing anything themselves. It is notable to me that they haven't really shared any strong read on anyone or even voted for anyone.
While StrangeMatter isn't exactly my first choice for an elimination vote, I can join that wagon.
These two posts are similar in content and make similar points, but I slightly expanded my read by including post examples and mentioned getting towncred and said nothing about a scum partner. Therefore, I definitely would not call it similar „word for word”.
However, I must say that I agree with implosion’s read on you as well. There’s a 170 post difference between our reads and it seems that your behavior hasn’t changed at all.
In post 881, Greeting wrote:In conclusion, Val89 looks like he's playing a game of his own.
I think this is a basically correct assessment that doesn't have a real bearing on his alignment
That's... true. I can accept that there is a possibility of there not being more to his behavior than that of him just being an uncooperative and stubborn single player.
Would you be willing to vote out frogsfrogs or StrangeMatter? I'm also open to the possibility of voting out MafMen, but would much prefer either one of these two.
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:18 am
by catboi
In post 913, Greeting wrote:Would you be willing to vote out frogsfrogs or StrangeMatter? I'm also open to the possibility of voting out MafMen, but would much prefer either one of these two.
I'm not compromising on strange, frogs would maybe if I had to, I think MafMen is more likely to be a hit though
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:19 am
by catboi
Greeting, look at MafMen trying to say you/Val was scum theater and tell me if you think that's a theory a townie really has?
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:26 am
by frogsfrogs
Ok, I think Strange is totally right about greeting seeming to parrot other people's reads of them,,, I think greeting's explanation for implosion is really weak and weird, even, too. You think that implosion is slightly less townie for taking action to back off on Val's train after he selfvoted? Scum would totally take advantage of the probably anti-town play there. It's like you would have preferred Val get quick hammered.
In post 913, Greeting wrote:Would you be willing to vote out frogsfrogs or StrangeMatter? I'm also open to the possibility of voting out MafMen, but would much prefer either one of these two.
I'm not compromising on strange, frogs would maybe if I had to, I think MafMen is more likely to be a hit though
Alright, I'll read up some more on MafMen then.
catboi wrote:Greeting, look at MafMen trying to say you/Val was scum theater and tell me if you think that's a theory a townie really has?
I found his reads in general to be rather shallow and easily dismissive. What I found super odd about him was the timing of his vote on me and the subsequent explanation that they don't trust my self-hammer play. That... makes zero sense.
If they don't trust my self-hammer play and think it's scum, why did they go out of their way to defend me Day One in the first place?
Why is their vote on me so conveniently timed when there's very little talk of me being voted out (there was a brief frogs vote I think, but so brief I barely noticed it)?
Why did they go 180 on me, how and when did this happen? Their readslist (730) is a smear on me and it happened a fierce defense. What made him change his point of view?
Check out GrandpaMo in N2078. GrandpaMo was scum in that game. Don't MafMen's posts sound a bit similar?
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:28 am
by Greeting
*happened after a fierce defense
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:32 am
by frogsfrogs
This is the clearest that greeting has been about reads all game and I still don't trust it.
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:35 am
by catboi
In post 919, frogsfrogs wrote:This is the clearest that greeting has been about reads all game and I still don't trust it.
why's that?
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 7:42 am
by igorsprite
now i'm in doubt '^'
UNVOTE:
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:04 am
by Greeting
UNVOTE:
In post 919, frogsfrogs wrote:This is the clearest that greeting has been about reads all game and I still don't trust it.
When you look at my readslist, you will find that there are two other players I find a scumlean or moderate scumlean and one more that I don't find towny either. We have two scums in this game, which means that
at least two
of these players I mentioned in my list are town. If you are one of these two townies, then may I suggest you join our efforts into looking for a suspicious player to eliminate and perhaps try to find some common ground with others. Look at StrangeMatter and MafMen. Do you think any of these two are suspicious? If so, then why?
And I ask the other players to do the same.
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:12 am
by MafMen
so lets make that 5 different wagons you participated on
Posted: Fri Nov 12, 2021 8:14 am
by MafMen
In post 890, Greeting wrote:In order from the biggest townlean (up) to the biggest scumlean (down). Consider this also to be the list of whom I will be the most or least willing to vote out at this point of the game. I can settle to vote out the moderate scumleans and scumleans if my current choice (that is Val89) doesn't have a majority to be eliminated.
Townlean
Spoiler:
catboi
- Already spoke of them in 701. Has made an extraordinarily big (and good) effort to solve the game. I didn't notice much that would really make me interested in this slot. If catboi is scum then I congratulate him, because he successfully convinced me otherwise.
igorsprite
- Although his play is, in my opinion, really bad, unfortunately it would appear that he has some sort of town PR role. If it wasn't for that, I'd be voting them out right now.
Moderate townlean
Spoiler:
implosion
- Admittedly, this isn't a very strong read, but his actions in this game seem generally quite towny. His assessment of actions of other players, including myself (in posts such as 99, 130, Something which also tells me that implosion isn't scum is the way in he tried to mediate between me and Val89, whom, I believe, at the time he considered town. His interactions with catboi scream town speaking with town (as in 511).
Looking back in retrospect, I don't like his newer posts - most notably 775 and for now that is the major reason why implosion isn't a full townread. While this carefulness makes more sense when it's early Day Phase, we are slowly nearing towards the end - and town is very clearly and seems to be unwilling to go in a common direction. This post could be interpreted as being overly careful about looking bad if Val89 flips town.
While this is partly explained by them in 845 - I have one major remark implosion - there is less than 24h left and Val89 is, at the moment, the only viable option for elimination with three votes on that slot. So if you want to make a case for someone then you'd better hurry up.
Neutral
Spoiler:
MafMen
- I don't know what to make of them, really. The content of their posts seems genuine. The wording and the frequency remind me of another user - GrandpaMo, whom I know from N2078. GrandpaMo was a scum in that game and he managed to win it. That doesn't really let me move MafMen into my townreads. It's extremely subjective, but opinions are subjective by definition.
He seems to have conviction in whatever he's doing at the moment, but I must admit that his reasoning for voting me, in 730, is really weak (and I'm not saying this out of spite, as Val89 had voted me before and made much more valid points!) and my wagon seems a comfy place to stay at when I'm not in danger of being eliminated. I hope he either manages to put me at E-1 (with myself voting as promised) or keeps his promise from 861, otherwise this is slowly going into a moderate scumlean.
Moderate scumlean
Spoiler:
(two players in this category are of equal suspicion to me)
StrangeMatter
- Ever since entering the game they seem to be comfortably sitting on the fence, questioning and judging around, but without going into any concrete direction. Sure, it's okay if one doesn't like my self-hammer play (374, 385) I respect that. Sure, it's okay if one thinks I'm harming town (673). It feels to me like commenting on whatever I'm doing at the moment and questioning me is an easy way to get towncred without actually doing anything themselves. It is notable to me that they haven't really shared any strong read on anyone or even voted for anyone.
While StrangeMatter isn't exactly my first choice for an elimination vote, I can join that wagon.
frogsfrogs
- I think he could be playing Robin to Val's Batman in the scum team. I totally see them working together and opting for a cooperation tactic. Of course, my scum read on them is weaker and dependent on Val flipping scum, but I wouldn't be opposed to voting them out today either. I actually agree with catboi's assessment of them in 379.
Frogs actively participates a bit more in the game than StrangeMatter. Nonetheless, I find his stances rather vague and uninformative. He made a basic readslist in 421, but I fail to see (maybe frogs can point me to it) how it affected his later behavior in the game and especially his later vote for catboi in 578? What exactly has changed? If you think that me and catboi are aligned then why didn't you vote for me instead?
In post 796 you spoke of scum being amongst the three of me, catboi and MafMen - which is an opinion you repeated from Val89 (786). Why?
Furthermore, why are you voting for Val89 if you don't think he's scum? I understand that you are voting for them because they asked you to do so (824), but what makes you trust them so much?
im just gonna straight up give you a big fuck you for minimizing hours of my fucking effort by labeling my reads “simple”
in what way are they “simple”