Mafiascum.net

"Launder, Craft Fetish and Ward can also cause insanity"

key word being WARD

Because there's no point throwing more questions at people who are already being interrogated adequately. I'm looking for people who are ducking attention.

Questions and votes aren't lovers. They can and do exist without each other. Much like how I asked you this!

And this!

Out of those tingling my scumdar and not already dogpiled, I choose Bowser.

Soooo you're pretty clearly saying one of the huge wagons is someone you think is scum.

I'm sure missing words that back that up.

that being said, it did not cause me any insanity, so i don't know why that's in the OP. Perhaps if you ward a stalk, or the passing of a fetish.

Furcolow wrote:if you are an investigator why are you suspicious of me for warding?
are you claiming i didnt ward?
if you are claiming i didnt ward, why would i claim ward BEFORE ANYONE ELSE?
if I didn't ward, why did El Goosuki hear noise?
i also read that wards would cause you to hear noise, but percy changed the rule on me
furthermore, i really thought my ward had gone down alphabetically at one point


how is this not convincing to you, seacore?
if you want to HELP the town, find some scum

reply to this seacore

Furcolow wrote:if you are an investigator why are you suspicious of me for warding?

I'm not suspicous of you for warding. I think warding was one of the good actions. I don't entirely believe your ward claim, that is my point.

are you claiming i didnt ward?

I have no idea what you did or didn't do, I just feel there's evidence heavily suggesting that you have lied about your night action, whether you have lied about your action, target or both

if you are claiming i didnt ward, why would i claim ward BEFORE ANYONE ELSE?

why wouldn't you claim that? It's a really safe action that explains noise

if I didn't ward, why did El Goosuki hear noise?

Perhaps you stalked them, or perhaps you're cult and a fetish was made of them.

i also read that wards would cause you to hear noise, but percy changed the rule on me
furthermore, i really thought my ward had gone down alphabetically at one point


how is this not convincing to you, seacore?
if you want to HELP the town, find some scum

Well I'm trying to do that, but currently I'm having to defend myself against, what I feel were, responses to two causes of concern, you and Benmage.

Furcolow wrote:"Launder, Craft Fetish and Ward can also cause insanity"

Ward could not cause an insanity on N0 as it only causes one on a dead target.

Craft Fetish is not available as an action for Investigators.

Therefore only

Launder (stupid option N0)
Cower (bad option N0, but maybe by lack of access which is why I asked people to claim)
Stalk (most likely anti town action N0)

could cause insanity in Investigators.

Well if you FLIP Investigator no one's going to go 'HERP DERP HE MIGHT BE A MURDERER'. Before they go Psycho, Murderers can be reformed or even just be misguided Townies who eant to stay Investigator. And besides, what if someone wanted to go Murderer and took Denial last Night HUH Mister wiseguy? In conclusion, your premise is full of holes.

Sorry, but I'm going after Cult until we actually get people Murdering. Benmage doesn't count because claimed one-time Murdering Investigators make it almost impossible for them to win or do damage as Murderers if the Town doesn't fall over dead drunk.

Though you [ only get an Insanity from Ward if you Ward someone who's dead, so that happens to be inapplicable.

Ellibereth, I don't think there's a single person in the game who's familiar enough with all its events to summarize it. Since in my current mood, I'm more susceptible to flattery than usual, I might give a Cliff's Notes version eventually, but first things first.

I side strongly with Furpants (who I now feel strongly is town, although I think his coyness over his suspects is counterproductive) in the Zach-Fur exchange. Trilobite's Seacore vote was terrible, and felt like opportunistic and lazy scum.

Zachrulez, what do you think about xvart, kunkstar, and Baby Spice? Both of them were even on Furcolow than Seacore was.

Also, you know, what do you think about the players who on the wagon? Just one?

I know I said the Furcolow/Benmage/Fate situation was a litmus test of intelligence/innocence...but I'd bet my life that at least three-four scum were smart enough to keep their hands far away. And I wouldn't be all that surprised if Trilobite was one of those scumbags.

Your hydra slot--despite consisting of three strong players--has been lurky, non-confrontational, sheepy, and not contributed a single opinion that wasn't safe and obvious ("Ooh, guys, Furcolow is innocent...for the same reason everyone else has already said!"). And instead of stepping up your game when called on it, you're trying to argue that because you're selflessly keeping the thread shorter. That's the biggest cop-out ever.

And LOL that the scummy posts are coming from Zach-head. Faraday predicted as much in our QT.

I'm not ready to move my vote just yet, but Trilobite is heading to the top of my list. Need to discuss things with Faraday when he returns.

====================================
Of today's popular non-xvart wagons, it'd probably go Bowser >>>>>>>>>>> Baby Spice >>>>> AurorusVox = Seacore for me.

Bowser is the only one of the four wagons that I don't dislike and would actually feel good about voting. The only thing holding me back is that CSL is capable of looking like obvobvobvscum even as town. He is always inconsistent and sheepy. It's too easy a wagon. But this is bad even for CSL; he hasn't given off a single towntell all game. Besides, he'll be lynched eventually, so today is a good enough time to cull the fat.

I wouldn't be utterly shocked if Baby Spice flipped scum, but she comes across as more of a town paranoid lunatic. Faraday also feels strongly that she's town (because he understands where she's coming from on Furcolow).

I hate how quickly the Seacore wagon has grown. After ISO-reading him, I feel much better about him. I'm not sure if this is enough to satisfy Plum, since this is mostly gut, but he was basically exactly the same as this (earnest, not always the sharpest in his reasoning, saying sloppy stuff that sounds scummy like "Of course, he could be saying this because he has a guilty investigation on me...but he doesn't!") in A Game of Thrones Mafia (and according to Faraday, as in PYP). Seriously, what exactly is the case on him, aside from voting Furcolow (which several other players did)? His playstyle? His most recent defence post also feels sincere. That said, I agree with Furcolow that actual suspects from Seacore would be nice.

(Yes, I know, Furc will now go, "HAHAHAHA, I KNEW YOU GUYS ARE SCUMBUDDIES!" I really couldn't care less.)

I now have a slight town read on AurorusVox after ISO reading him. His big oopsies seem to be that he wasn't willing to instantly clear Furcolow, being wishy-washy on Benmage, and perhaps trying to take too much credit for clearing Furc. Initially, Faraday and I thought SpyreX's case was decent. But since then, I think he's justified his opinions well and been reasonably protown. And if you want me to be honest, I'm pretty sure that people wouldn't have jumped on AV so blindly had it not been the almighty who'd voted for him.

SpyreX: I'd like to know why you've attacked AurorusVox, but not people whose interactions concerning the Furc/Ben/Fate clusterfuck have been worse IMO (for example, MagnaofIllusion, xvart--other than a throwaway sentence--kunkstar, Baby Spice, rewq, us when Lost Butterfly had voted Furcolow).

Also, what do you think of Trilobite? Because I think Furpants is looking miles better than Trilobite in their exchange...and yet you only seem to mind Furpants.

================================================================

Speaking of which, I realize I never answered this:

AurorusVox wrote:I've mostly liked Lost Butterfly's earlier posts, but (i) the vote for Triglav on page 4 came out of nowhere. I asked for clarification on this earlier. (ii) Also, the "bad vibes" from VP Baltar's post is odd - attributed to the smilies, of which he uses one (I get that it's a joke but it's also factually inaccurate!). (iii) His vote on Furc after saying how town he finds him stinks of opportunistic voting. The speed at which he declared it a technical error was astounding

(i) Faraday attributed his Triglav vote to "mostly gut" in the QT, so you'd have to ask him for more detail. I was okay with the vote because I thought Trig's vote on xvart was weak, and because Triglav was lurking and needed some pressure on him to step up their activity.

(ii) I normally don't mention bad gut feelings in the thread, but Faraday seconding me on this gave me confidence to bring it up. And I know this is silly, but ever since Mafia, I've been paranoid of the smiley. Evil Scumbag Percy wrote lots of long and nicely formatted wall posts that were sooooooo helpful and protown, but occasionally, there was off. And you know what I think that something was. The smiley! There's something insincere about it. (Wait a minute...oh, shit, maybe I shouldn't have given away to the mod one of his own scumtells!) Admittedly, Evil Scumbag Baltar didn't use them in that game.

(iii) By this point, you've probably noticed the whole "Two different heads bicker with each other" thing by now. But see, this is the kind of thing I wish Baltar et al would look at. Whether the vote was opportunistic, not whether two hydra heads disagreeing with each other is inherently scummy.

Plum wrote:Well if you FLIP Investigator no one's going to go 'HERP DERP HE MIGHT BE A MURDERER'. Before they go Psycho, Murderers can be reformed or even just be misguided Townies who eant to stay Investigator. And besides, what if someone wanted to go Murderer and took Denial last Night HUH Mister wiseguy? In conclusion, your premise is full of holes.

Sorry, but I'm going after Cult until we actually get people Murdering. Benmage doesn't count because claimed one-time Murdering Investigators make it almost impossible for them to win or do damage as Murderers if the Town doesn't fall over dead drunk.

Though you

can

[ only get an Insanity from Ward if you Ward someone who's dead, so that happens to be inapplicable.

Okay, admitidly I totally forgot about denial, although lets face it, that would not be a good insanity for a potential murderer to pick.

I'm okay with investigators using their one off kill to try and vig, but stalking N0 means you chose your target without game information, and that is anti town.

But the rest of your argument has already been told to me and has convinced me previously, that's why I'm not going after Benmage anymore.

Plum, I understand if you skimmed over my giant walls of doom, but could I get an answer to these:

Lost Butterfly wrote:Oh, and I still haven't ISO'd AurorusVox, but I've been feeling better about AurorusVox and worse about SpyreX as the day has progressed. Plum and Benmage--aka, the people who'd cast doubt on SpyreX--exactly what in particularly bothers? Personally, he looked blindingly town at first, but it seems as though he's forcing his case a bit.

Lost Butterfly wrote:I already suspected Baltar and xvart (although I'd be surprised if both were scum based on how xvart followed Baltar onto me), and have had doubts of RC because of how shamelessly he jockeys for influence by kissing up to people, appealing to their past history, and padding his posts with fluffy jokes. (I've been meaning to ask Magna and Plum--both of whom have experience with him but have come to completely opposite reads--for a while if all the obnoxious buddying and joking is in character with ReaperCharlie's town self.)

LB's comment about Bowser is exactly why I haven't voted that way, even though I've been so tempted to. CSL did such a bad job of looking town in A Clash of Kings that even as a mod I occassionally forgot that he was town. Placing a vote on him just feels too easy. I ISO'd him to see if I'd missed a better reason, but there's nothing much there, just vague badness.

Anyway, yes, you'll get some actual suspects out of me before I got to bed tonight.

I'm not saying you were, I'm saying that given your position on Benmage this was a bit . . . yeah:

Seacore wrote:

Furcolow wrote:

unvote;
vote: seacore

even if this guy is town, he will not help us
he obviously is incapable

Wow, just wow. What exactly have you brought to the game Furc? Your list of certain scum? Please wait until I'm lynched and revealed as somebody with 0 insanity points before you answer that.

Lost Butterfly:

1. I need to reread SpyreX, but the immediate honing in on one single target in such a big Day 1 and the longish, long-thought seeming posts smacked more of scum that Town given SpyreX. That said it could be a function of something else, possibly the size/speed of the game. I'm not certain.

2. RC I have experience with from Thrillville Mafia. That said I could try later to figure out what's making it so clear, but for now I'll have to assume that various form s of meta have assimilated into my brain.

Butterfly wrote:SpyreX: I'd like to know why you've only attacked AurorusVox, but not people whose interactions concerning the Furc/Ben/Fate clusterfuck have been worse IMO (for example, MagnaofIllusion, xvart--other than a throwaway sentence--kunkstar, Baby Spice, rewq, us when Lost Butterfly had voted Furcolow).

Also, what do you think of Trilobite? Because I think Furpants is looking miles better than Trilobite in their exchange...and yet you only seem to mind Furpants.

I've haven't got there because a.) I still have a hate-on for AV despite all you tsk, tskers. b.) you'll notice I'm holding a whole MESS of things closer to the vest than I would normally due to the madness of the setup.

BUT, before I really address this:

How caught up is this post, because I'll let you hit the retry button.

Especially on this:

I now have a slight town read on AurorusVox after ISO reading him. His big oopsies seem to be that he wasn't willing to instantly clear Furcolow, being wishy-washy on Benmage, and perhaps trying to take too much credit for clearing Furc.

Because if somehow you got THAT being what I'm getting at then I may, in fact, explode.

Plum wrote:I'm not saying you were, I'm saying that given your position on Benmage this was a bit . . . yeah:

Seacore wrote:

Furcolow wrote:

unvote;
vote: seacore

even if this guy is town, he will not help us
he obviously is incapable

Wow, just wow. What exactly have you brought to the game Furc? Your list of certain scum? Please wait until I'm lynched and revealed as somebody with 0 insanity points before you answer that.

Plum, I'm not saying I'm a great player. I'm fairly rubbish at scumhunting through posts, my talent comes from moments of insight when I combine investigations with claims, find holes of logic and catch scum that way. I caught 2 scum in PYP1 through that.

What I objected to was saying I was useless, when (admitidly from my unique standpoint) I'm aware that he's wrong about me, and probably wrong about LB and Fate.

The other difference was I disliked Benmage being actively anti-town rather than being rubbish-town. I feel there's a difference.

Furcolow wrote:"Launder, Craft Fetish and Ward can also cause insanity"

Furcolow wrote:that being said, it did not cause me any insanity, so i don't know why that's in the OP. Perhaps if you ward a stalk, or the passing of a fetish.

If anybody is keeping a tally of how confused Furc seems to be getting about the consequences of his claimed N0 action, please add this to it.

Anyway, I'm leaving work. I'll start ISOing in a few hours after I have some dinner.

SpyreX wrote:Questions and votes aren't lovers. They can and do exist without each other. Much like how I asked you this!

Questions without votes are fine, when people you're asking questions of are answering. Seems like Bowser could use a little nudge to contribute.

SpyreX wrote:

Out of those tingling my scumdar and not already dogpiled, I choose Bowser.

Soooo you're pretty clearly saying one of the huge wagons is someone you think is scum.

I'm sure missing words that back that up.

I'm also saying that I think there are other, non-wagonned people I think might be scum. But I don't have any reasonable basis to point fingers yet, nor do I think I'll extract more information for town by putting more pressure on players already under pressure from others.

Ok, I'm tired and have to sleep.

But I'm not seeing at ALL how:

Out of those tingling my scumdar , I choose Bowser.

=

I'm also saying that I think there are other, I think might be scum.

SpyreX wrote:Ok, I'm tired and have to sleep.

But I'm not seeing at ALL how:

Out of those tingling my scumdar

and not already dogpiled

, I choose Bowser.

=

I'm also saying that I think there are other,

non-wagonned people

I think might be scum.

My statement implies that the total group of players is divided in two ways:

Group A = People I think are probably scum
Group B = People I think are probably town
Groups A + B are exclusive.

Group 1 = People who are dogpiled
Group 2 = People who are not dogpiled
Groups 1 + 2 are exclusive, but both can co-exist with A or B.

Bowser has been selected as a representative of both Group A and Group 2.

Furpants_Tom wrote:Bit curious about this Seacore wagon, now. What's the purpose? We've got 8 days to go, there's no information you guys particularly seem to be looking for from him, and yet you're happy to take much of the pressure off other suspects who haven't talked so much - like Bowser, <redacted> and <redacted>, for example.

Attention: Trilobite and hitogoroshi

, very interested in your votes in this regard.

P.S. Rethought pinging my other scumreads on the preview screen; since I'm not ready to explain them. One at a time, easy as she goes.

:GOODPOSTING:

Seriously the Seacore wagon has been ENTIRELY:

"Seacore's done nothing but this all game, he must be scum"

AND NOT A SINGLE

"Seacore you've said a shitload about Ben/Furc, WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT OTHER PEOPLE?"

Which means the wagon contains: Scum, Scum bussing (unlikely given my read, but I'm open to it), Lazy ass town.

SO NOW LETS SEE WHOS ON IT.

^WE CAN AND SHOULD DO THIS. THANKS IN ADVANCE.

(hitorogoshi, Plum, ReaperCharlie, AurorusVox, totallynotmafia, Trilobite, ReaperCharlie)
hitorogoshi-
Dont' really feel like doing it because he's obvobvtown. He started the wagon and accused Seacore of being scummy in a well reasoned way at least. -LAZY OBVTOWN

Plum-
Looking through Plum's ISO I see no direct questioning of Seacore's play. Awkwardly moved her vote from Bowser to Seacore, after not mentioning Seacore in her initial content posts (cept for a "Seacore first?"). Her vote is an obv hop on hitotown's logic. She continues to exhibit signs of "confirmation bias" in twisting all of Seacore's new posts into scumtells for him, rather than trying to feel out his alignment.-SCUM/SCUMBUSSING That's right Plum. YOU JUST LOST YOUR TOWN READ GIRL

ReaperCharlie-
Reaper is being a god damn Reaper as usual. He says "oh no im gonna die lets make D1 worth it" then proceeds to act like the champion of town with no fear of dying/producing real content the whole day. Continues to call for Seacore's lynch based off Seacore's one post of ("people who think I'm cult with Fate are fucking stupid"), without any addition to his case or questioning of Seacore. -SCUM

AurousVox-
Holy fuckING HELL I JUST CTRL+SEACORE AND THE SECOND PAGE OF HIS ISO <- THIS IS THE COMPANY YOU HAVE ON THIS BULLSHIT WAGON. No seriously his ISO mentions Seacore -SCUM

Totallynotmafia-
His reactionfishing seemed geniune enough plus other shit I was reading on him, skipping this one for now will address him seperately. -TOWNISH

Trilobite-
Isn't Ojanen that guy I nailed as scum in Gods and Men D1? LOLHAI DER. Hops on Seacore wagon with reasoning of "he's a better/moreviable wagon than MoI" No questioning. PLUS WHEN OBVTOWN FURPANTS SCOLDED THE WAGON, THIS HYDRA'S RESPONSE WAS "Lol like he's gona get lynched this early" NOT "you're right, we should look elsewhere."

Trilobite should have a -SCUMMY after it.

RE: TNM, the frustration "fuck it Im done with MS for now" was mostly due to furcolow, and also another on-going game in which I was being attacked by another VI. The compounding of stupidity resulted in me taking a break.

Your post left me more puzzled than angry, because I was like "nah he's not serious. I'm pretty sure TNM is a more solid player than that" but in context with all the other dumb tells and you saying "that would be funny if he did that" gave me pause as to whether you were serious or not. Your later explanation of "Reaction test" AND having the same reaction I did to Seacore's posts (WTF? REASONABLE? That means you IMPLICATE yourself??!?)=Town read on you.