Mini 1349: Words with Scum (Game over!)

[whispersilk]

Well this is interesting. Amrun put IG, her top scum read at L-1, with no concern for the fact that she has yet to collect her tile for today.

[whispersilk]

^has=had

[whispersilk]

On an unrelated note: is anyone else having issues with bolding text, or reading text that is supposed to be bolded as normal?

For me, when using the bold tags, the text just previews as normal, and I'm seeing a bunch of votes, flips and collects showing up in normal font weight. This has only been happening today.

[whispersilk]

Example -

[Quilford]

Mod Announcement

Replacing 2minds1soul.

Voidedmafia, I recommend you post in the Help! forum.

Game Board

Spoiler: Activity Log

Code: Select all

Voidedmafia flipped tile A4, revealing a D.
AurorusVox flipped tile G6, revealing a W.
IceGuy flipped tile H6, revealing an O.
DLCXVI flipped tile B6, revealing an M.
MagnaofIllusion flipped tile B5, revealing an N.
vijay2vasandani flipped tile I4, revealing a G.
2minds1soul took tile I1, collecting an unknown...
Robocopter87 flipped tile F4, revealing an I. 
Lady Lambdadelta flipped tile D3, revealing an R.
Lady Lambdadelta took tile D3, collecting an R.
Robocopter87 took tile I5, collecting an unknown...
IceGuy took tile F4, collecting an I.
MagnaofIllusion took tile E1, collecting an unknown...
Voidedmafia took tile A4, collecting a D.
AurorusVox took tile I4, collecting a G.
whispersilk flipped tile B3, revealing an H.
DCLXVI took tile B6, collecting an M.
Amrun flipped tile F3, revealing an S.
vijay2vasandani took tile H6, collecting an O.
whispersilk took tile B4, collecting an unknown...
Amrun took tile B3, collecting an H.

MagnaofIllusion has used both his daily flip and collect.
AurorusVox has used both his daily flip and collect.
IceGuy has used both his daily flip and collect.
Lady Lambdadelta has used both her daily flip and collect.
2minds1soul have used their daily collect.
Robocopter87 has used both his daily flip and collect.
whispersilk has used both her daily flip and collect.
DCLXVI has used both his daily flip and collect.
vijay2vasandani has used both his daily flip and collect.
Amrun has used both her daily flip and collect.
Voidedmafia has used both his daily flip and collect. 

--- DAY 1 ------------------------------------------------
MagnaofIllusion flipped tile E5, revealing an R.
Hoopla flipped tile K1, revealing a C.
Voidedmafia flipped tile K6, revealing an X.
Lady Lambdadelta flipped tile D4, revealing an N.
Lady Lambdadelta took tile D4, collecting an N.
Robocopter87 flipped tile J2, revealing a P.
Robocopter87 took tile J2, collecting a P.
IceGuy flipped tile A1, revealing a P.
vijay2vasandani flipped tile C4, revealing an R.
2minds1soul flipped tile H4, revealing a C.
AurorusVox flipped tile A6, revealing a T.
Amrun took tile A2, collecting an unknown...
DLCXVI flipped tile F6, revealing a D.
Amrun flipped tile B2, revealing a V.
Arugula flipped tile D2, revealing an M.
Hoopla took tile E5, collecting an R.
whispersilk flipped tile G2, revealing a Z.
AurorusVox took tile A1, collecting a P.
MagnaofIllusion took tile B2, collecting a V.
Voidedmafia took tile C4, collecting an R.
vijay2vasandani took tile K1, collecting a C.
whispersilk took tile D2, collecting an M.
2minds1soul took tile H4, collecting a C.
Arugula took tile C6, collecting an unknown...
DCLXVI took tile A6, collecting a T.
IceGuy took tile F6, collecting a D.

Day 2

MagnaofIllusion

(4) whispersilk, IceGuy, Robocopter87, AurorusVox

IceGuy

(4) Voidedmafia, DCLXVI, MagnaofIllusion, Amrun

DCLXVI

(2) vijay2vasandani, Lady Lambdadelta

Not Voting

(1) 2minds1soul

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. 

Deadline hits in (expired on 2012-07-19 01:18:09).

MoI has declared Limited Access during weekends.

[MagnaofIllusion]

MOD – I’ll be LA from 4pm EDT today until Monday in the morning for my usual weekend family duties.

I’m going to have a group of bite-sized posts coming up as I think certain posts need addressed all on their own.

--

Not a scumclaim persay.

However, I have reviewed MoI's play, and though I don't think he is super scummy, I can definitely see why we want him lynched.

What I'm saying is. He is Null-Scum to me. Yet still a totally viable lynch for today.

I'm willing to wagon. This does not mean I no longer suspect DCL. I want DCL dead. But it probably isn't the best bet for today. (Not because he looks town. But because AV is killing my wagon with a trident.)

Yup … you are scum aren’t you.

“I think DCL is scum but I don’t think that he’s the best bet today (as I can start that mislynch wagon fresh tomorrow. Meanwhile MoI is sorta scummy but I want to leave ‘escape hatch’ language in my post so I can point fingers at others more easily when he flips Town”.

--

MoI, if you think this wagon is scum motivated, point out which of the people are the scum that are motivating it.

Why is the master of not giving reasons with statements asking me this again? Yes, that’s some sarcasm but I think it’s warranted.

Were you unable to deduce who I suspect? Let’s look at the Arugula wagon and my current wagon …

Arugula (7) DCLXVI,

IceGuy, Robocopter87, AurorusVox,

vijay2vasandani, Voidedmafia, Amrun

MagnaofIllusion (4) whispersilk,

IceGuy, Robocopter87, AurorusVox

I’ve taken the liberty of bolding the very interesting duplication of voting on both. Futhermore my wagon has all the earmarks of everything I pointed out on the Arugula counter-wagon … Iceguy is sitting in danger (he was L-2 at worst) and suddenly in a quick flurry of votes suddenly a powerful counterwagon appears.

Meanwhile note that the DCL wagon hung around with him at L-1 for awhile. It isn’t a coincidence that Iceguy keeps having super-quick.counterwagons appear for him while others do not.

At this stage I think Iceguy is more or less confirmed scum and Robo is his partner. Some very good points have been made about how Robo is ‘hanging around’ in Iceguy’s ISO as suspicious. But he’s never suspicious enough to actually pressure or vote. Reads as soft distancing. Meanwhile Robo has staked “Iceguy is Town” with little reason that strikes me as “scum unwilling to even consider bussing” behavior.

Whisper is just rather flighty and not so great Town and if DCL is Town (as I am now leaning based on who the DCL Top Wagon - Iceguy Top Wagon - MoI counterwagon path went along) then odds are favorable you are probably Town for the unvote you made.

[MagnaofIllusion]

First, he insinuates I'm scummy for again changing my read on IG (nevermind the fact that it changed back to a scum read and he also thinks IG is scum), and in an even more subtle way, he's saying that I'm somehow trying to save DCL (who is a scum read of mine).

Actually no ... that’s not what that first paragraph says at all. Frankly I’m to the point of frustration with you Whisper. I’m about 99% sure you are Town simply from your activity and investment in the game as opposed to your scum games. You ping pong back and forth on players much akin to how a leaf reacts to the breeze …

Should I throw down some AtE here? I’m not going to but the point is well made. You had a scum read on Iceguy Day 1. A combination of AtE and “game theory agreement” made you decide he was Town and uvote him. Then today you do a re-read that mostly (from what I can tell) encompasses Day 1 and decide ‘Welp, he’s scum again”. You then vote him and he basically Wall of Attitions you (which he claims is a scum tactic I’m using) and you go into a doubt spiral which leads to where we are now.

Then despite saying he wants to lynch IG more than DCL, and the case on IG is better, he really does not want to derail the DCL wagon.

Your point here? Why again should I immediately leave a wagon that at the time I found on a possible Iceguy partner simply for your single vote? Iceguy is the better lynch. His fabrications and reactive play assure me of that. Your 360 flip back to him as Scum came at a time when DCL was a viable and well received wagon. I needed to know why you felt the need to do the re-read then of all times.

Then, after DCL and Voided vote IG, he jumps off DCL and votes IG.

Again … your point? You already know that I preferred Iceguy as a scum lynch. He then gets three votes and I’m sitting on the DCL wagon that also at that stage has three votes other than my own. If you are suggesting it’s scummy for me to be the fourth vote on my top candidate over the fourth vote on someone else who I found scummy then whelp I don’t know if there is any point to discussing it.

Now Voided's vote on IG is terribad too. Voided ditches the case he's had on IG since day 1 (except he hasn't really had a case of his own, mainly sheeped other people) to vote DCL, who is also trying to push a IG lynch, but the way he does it is like he's trying to ditch the responsibility onto someone else.

This was aimed at Voided but I want to weigh in on it … this is terrible logic.

When Voided and I were pushing Ice at the start of the day there was NO support in sight. 2for1 mis-voted from his Agent Ireland account but the response from the rest of Town (including you) was to basically ignore us.

Then DCL and Robo begin their back and forth and DCL begins posting things that were frankly pretty scummy. Top that off with my thoughts that he was a possible partner via the Arugula wagon analysis and his wagon becoming stronger made him vote-worthy.

Are you suggesting either of us should have just parked our vote where it wasn’t doing much good in a game where we know there are 2 scum other than Iceguy out there?

[MagnaofIllusion]

Yes, of course, I started a wagon on you to save the guy that I started a wagon on.

Colour me lol!

Well color me given that you aren't the only player on the wagon.

[MagnaofIllusion]

Really? Cuz in a game I played with him where he was scum and I was town, he hella ramped up my scumminess and spent all of the first two pages pushing a policy lynch on me by telling everyone I was the worst player around and was power-lurking scum.

This is funny because you are somehow trying to say my 100% correct read on you in Secret Society Mafia when I was Town that you NKed N1 somehow makes you conclude I am scum.

Do you want to debate that I was wrong in SS Mafia? I can pull the links to all the posts where I point out posts that screamed scum intent. I’d rather not bother since I have a pretty good Town read on you and don’t want to clutter the thread unnecessarily.

--

Ice's nitpicking is ridiculous.

Yeah I know right? It’s like he’s scum flailing away. But he’s totally a 100% Town read for you, right?

--

MoI: Why did that unvote seem to affect you so much?

I think I covered this in my Whisper response but if you want it further stated let me know.

[AurorusVox]

vote: iceguy

Discuss.

[DCLXVI]

I thought you had a townread on him?

[MagnaofIllusion]

vote: iceguy

Discuss.

What would you like us to discuss? I personally approve of the vote. He's scum and it puts him one step closer to being lynched.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Ok, that comment about "LOOK AT THE DUPLICATION ON THE WAGONS OH GEE" from MoI makes me wanna ##FuzzyKittenHug him.

... to death.

[Quilford]

Mod Announcement

PeregrineV replaces 2minds1soul. Thanks!

Game Board

Spoiler: Activity Log

Code: Select all

Voidedmafia flipped tile A4, revealing a D.
AurorusVox flipped tile G6, revealing a W.
IceGuy flipped tile H6, revealing an O.
DLCXVI flipped tile B6, revealing an M.
MagnaofIllusion flipped tile B5, revealing an N.
vijay2vasandani flipped tile I4, revealing a G.
2minds1soul took tile I1, collecting an unknown...
Robocopter87 flipped tile F4, revealing an I. 
Lady Lambdadelta flipped tile D3, revealing an R.
Lady Lambdadelta took tile D3, collecting an R.
Robocopter87 took tile I5, collecting an unknown...
IceGuy took tile F4, collecting an I.
MagnaofIllusion took tile E1, collecting an unknown...
Voidedmafia took tile A4, collecting a D.
AurorusVox took tile I4, collecting a G.
whispersilk flipped tile B3, revealing an H.
DCLXVI took tile B6, collecting an M.
Amrun flipped tile F3, revealing an S.
vijay2vasandani took tile H6, collecting an O.
whispersilk took tile B4, collecting an unknown...
Amrun took tile B3, collecting an H.

MagnaofIllusion has used both his daily flip and collect.
AurorusVox has used both his daily flip and collect.
IceGuy has used both his daily flip and collect.
Lady Lambdadelta has used both her daily flip and collect.
2minds1soul have used their daily collect.
Robocopter87 has used both his daily flip and collect.
whispersilk has used both her daily flip and collect.
DCLXVI has used both his daily flip and collect.
vijay2vasandani has used both his daily flip and collect.
Amrun has used both her daily flip and collect.
Voidedmafia has used both his daily flip and collect. 

--- DAY 1 ------------------------------------------------
MagnaofIllusion flipped tile E5, revealing an R.
Hoopla flipped tile K1, revealing a C.
Voidedmafia flipped tile K6, revealing an X.
Lady Lambdadelta flipped tile D4, revealing an N.
Lady Lambdadelta took tile D4, collecting an N.
Robocopter87 flipped tile J2, revealing a P.
Robocopter87 took tile J2, collecting a P.
IceGuy flipped tile A1, revealing a P.
vijay2vasandani flipped tile C4, revealing an R.
2minds1soul flipped tile H4, revealing a C.
AurorusVox flipped tile A6, revealing a T.
Amrun took tile A2, collecting an unknown...
DLCXVI flipped tile F6, revealing a D.
Amrun flipped tile B2, revealing a V.
Arugula flipped tile D2, revealing an M.
Hoopla took tile E5, collecting an R.
whispersilk flipped tile G2, revealing a Z.
AurorusVox took tile A1, collecting a P.
MagnaofIllusion took tile B2, collecting a V.
Voidedmafia took tile C4, collecting an R.
vijay2vasandani took tile K1, collecting a C.
whispersilk took tile D2, collecting an M.
2minds1soul took tile H4, collecting a C.
Arugula took tile C6, collecting an unknown...
DCLXVI took tile A6, collecting a T.
IceGuy took tile F6, collecting a D.

Day 2

>>>

IceGuy

(5) Voidedmafia, DCLXVI, MagnaofIllusion, Amrun, AurorusVox

<<<

MagnaofIllusion

(3) whispersilk, IceGuy, Robocopter87

DCLXVI

(2) vijay2vasandani, Lady Lambdadelta

Not Voting

(1) PeregrineV

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch. 

Deadline hits in (expired on 2012-07-19 01:18:09).

MoI has declared Limited Access during weekends.

[Voidedmafia]

Ok, that comment about "LOOK AT THE DUPLICATION ON THE WAGONS OH GEE" from MoI makes me wanna ##FuzzyKittenHug him.

... to death.

...better than before, but why do you want to do that?

[Amrun]

You gave a laundry list of things you said MoI was scummy for, and I said I only find ONE of those valid. That means the REST are invalid stretches. Come on, now - you have to be doing this on purpose.

Okay, then explain why they're invalid.

I ALREADY DID. Stop asking for things I've stated clearly. I don't think that they are scumtells and I think you are using rhetoric and semantics to make them look like they are.

You say you only use things that are legitimately scummy, but as we've covered earlier, I only consider one of the points you brought up legitimate.

It's not about presentation, IceGuy. You are clearly concerned about how you are perceived in this game; every single post drips with it. That's a trait found FAR more often in scum.

To give an answer to both of your points...

Why don't you give an example?

If those traits are so pervasive they're in almost every post, where is your problem with pulling out one of those posts and explaining your point?

Is it because the whole house of cards would fall apart? Because it would force you to commit to a specific position I could disprove instead of throwing out accusations?

I literally just gave you like 5 examples. What the fuck are you smoking.

@Amrun:

No, I think IG was asking for examples of what I've bolded in your post above, of which you haven't given any (your deflection being immediately obv). I'm highlighting this for two reasons, (a) IG is now being made look scummy for his arguing with you, when in fact you're the one not backing up all your points against him and (b) I'm curious to see what you're talking about because in my experience of discussion with IG (especially on D1), he's come off as either stupid, rude or just plain stubborn. He's defended himself pretty well against me today, but not in the way you've claimed. The more I've pushed him, the more I've liked his responses.

Look, no offense, but are you reading carefully? I responded to EXACTLY what IG's question was about, which is why he, in turn, responded again like he knew what I was talking about.

Also, the example for the bolded that I chose to expound on happened FAR before this - I broke down his response to your case on him and showed he was doing this. What is more is that he 100%, TOTALLY AGREED that he did this, but says he just "values presentation." I think it is scummy.

I am not at all convinced you have ACTUALLY read the preceding argument.

Do you make a habit of sheeping your scum suspects and giving them what they want?

Did you SERIOUSLY just ask this? What a hypocrite! That's what everyone is scratching their heads about because it's what YOU just did!

@Amrun:

If you could stick around for like 5 minutes to answer something: Why is IG scum?

I have found him extremely scummy starting from yesterday; I dislike how he questioned Arugula's townread on me while NOT having a scumread on me. In general, most of his reads don't gel in this way. This is a hallmark of "looking for things to attack" rather than genuinely scumhunting, and undermining town reads like that is a favorite scumtell of mine.

Yes, it's interesting that I raised this in my case against him, except he explained his reason for the attack pretty well. He brought it up only after Aru brought it up. Some 4 pages of the game had passed since Aru had called you town. If IG was "looking for things to attack", you think he would have jumped on that before then.

No, the point you raised in your case was different. It was about the TIMING of the attack. And I agree that he answered that all right. However, my point was originally brought up on Day 1 and is different. He has never responded satisfactorily.

But that's quite interesting, because you have just done the same thing. I cannot comprehend your jump from IceGuy to MoI. It makes zero freaking sense.

MoI has been this little nagging thing in my gut, and I made a post at the end of yesterday explaining why I found him scummy. I've went from voting IG to MoI, because of MoI's actions and the way he abandoned the DCL wagon.

Also, looking back at the voting patterns from earlier today, it makes no sense that MoI would abandon his awesome case and vote on IG to jump to DCL, when IG and DCL had an equal # of votes.

Um, yes it does make sense? This argument only makes sense if you think IG is scum with MoI, which you clearly do not think (supposedly). What?

I really liked your case on IceGuy, and then you ruined that nice town sense I had of you by changing gears so suddenly and now I'm conflicted. It's one thing to change your vote, and quite another to suddenly vote for the person your previous scumread has been pushing, with whom the arguments with were the basis of your original suspicion.

Where did I ever say that the IG/MoI arguments were the basis of my original suspicion vote on IG? Link please.

Also, I've had a null-leaning scum read on MoI since yesterday, so it's not like I've pulled the vote out of my arse. He's just done and said enough to be my top scum read.

"Part of the basis" is more accurate, but it comes up many times, including this:

Wasted like when you wasted an inordinate amount of time arguing with MoI, who according to several comments you made throughout the day, was town?

The point is not that you went from null to scum on MoI, it's that you switched from voting IceGuy, MoI's main detractor, to voting MoI. The transition makes ZERO sense.

Made it to page 25, will have to finish up when I finally get home as I'm about to get back on a train.

Thoughts so far:

-IceGuy still scum. What's really funny is that he's saying MoI "ramps up" a person's scumminess, which is totally true, but is NOT a scumtell...

It's actually a TOWNTELL for MoI.

And it's doubly funny because IceGuy also does this, but I've never observed him doing it as town.

Really? Cuz in a game I played with him where he was scum and I was town, he hella ramped up my scumminess and spent all of the first two pages pushing a policy lynch on me by telling everyone I was the worst player around and was power-lurking scum. Except he can't pull that in this game cuz I'm obv town playing completely against my lurk-scum meta.

Which thankfully Hoopla pointed out for everyone.

That's not my experience with him as scum. I'm sure he does it sometimes as scum, as well - my point was that it's not a scumtell.

Awesome! If you're sure he does it sometimes as scum, where is your justification for the underlined part in your post above?

I've never seen him do it as scum, ever. However, hearing from you that he has done it in the past as scum does not surprise me. I think it indicates town for MoI once it reaches drastic levels, which I have already stated earlier that I don't think it has quite reached that level yet. You're not reading, again, but this was not worded clearly as well, so partially my fault.

The bolded really pings my scumdar. It has all the hallmarks of "teehee I killed Hoopla so nk analysis wouldn't implicate me! Now I can use her meta tell on me as legit and no one will question it!"

If my read on IceGuy wasn't so strong, I'd be voting you.

Thanks for misrepping my point.

I'm not misrepping you. Do you think I'm ACTUALLY saying that you said you killed Hoopla? Of course not. I'm trying to read underneath the underneath. It was a very self-serving comment and there is tons of scum motivation for making it and very little possible town motivation.

Well this is interesting. Amrun put IG, her top scum read at L-1, with no concern for the fact that she has yet to collect her tile for today.

How is that interesting? I didn't realize he was at L-1, which was quite obvious. I should have counted but I didn't have time right then and I just wanted to contribute.

Ok, that comment about "LOOK AT THE DUPLICATION ON THE WAGONS OH GEE" from MoI makes me wanna ##FuzzyKittenHug him.

... to death.

I agree that the duplication point was silly and I'm not sure where he's going with it, but why does it make you want to kill him?

[PeregrineV]

PeregrineV replaces 2minds1soul. Thanks!

Thank you for that lovely introduction. I've read only the rules and like first 20 posts, so if anyone has anything that needs to be looked at sooner let me know. I'll go back and forth between catching up and current, but if we have any ground rules, claims, etc. so far can at least three different people tell me what they are?

Thanks!

[AurorusVox]

Unvote

Content from Pere before day ends or bust.

[IceGuy]

I ALREADY DID. Stop asking for things I've stated clearly. I don't think that they are scumtells and I think you are using rhetoric and semantics to make them look like they are.

No, you did not. All you did was throw out generalities like this one.

[Quilford]

Mod Announcement

Prodding vijay2vasandani.

[vijay2vasandani]

got prodded. will post tonight. sorry guys. why is MoI scum again? I don't see IG's point about him claiming scum

[DCLXVI]

@Vijay

DCLXVI

(2) vijay2vasandani,

Lady Lambdadelta

You need to explain why your vote is still on me.

[Amrun]

I ALREADY DID. Stop asking for things I've stated clearly. I don't think that they are scumtells and I think you are using rhetoric and semantics to make them look like they are.

No, you did not. All you did was throw out generalities like this one.

That's pretty specific; don't twist. You're just going to continue saying they are scumtells and I'm going to continue saying they're not.

[Voidedmafia]

Just to be clear, your reasons why they're invalid is because IG was using rhetoric and semantics to make them look valid?

[whispersilk]

I'm semi VLA till tomorrow night. Will try to post later tonight.