Mafia of the Raptured (Game Over!)

[Katsuki]

I'm not seeing it. Maybe I'm not reading enough but I'm not getting anything from skimming his ISO.

His reasoning for voting MattP is amongst one of the things on my mattP checklist from when I first thought Matt was scum through D1.

[Amrun]

He won't take responsibility even for his own stances. I no likey.

Also MattP is townz.

[Vi]

~Vote Count XXIX

hp [leaves] (4) ~ Zdenek, Amrun, implosion, sword_of_omens
MattP (3) ~ Tammy, Katsuki, hp [leaves]
fferyllt (1) ~ Syryana

Not Voting:

fferyllt, MattP, Oversoul,

(sword_of_omens,)

Tierce

--With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.
--Deadline is 04:20 EDT on June 26, 2013.

(Only got 2 days left)

[Tierce]

Your sidesniping is unappreciated and unwarranted, though I'm unsure if you're trying to sling mud and plant seeds or just plain rude. Because I've known you to do THAT as either alignment.

I'm not doing things for you to "appreciate" them, I'm trying to figure out if your behavior and reads are indicative of Town or scum. I don't care if you think I'm rude, my goal is not to make the game

nice

for you, my goal is to lynch scum, and if pointing out failures in your scumhunting that I've seen in multiple instances helps me rationalize your behavior as one alignment or another, I'm not going to refrain from doing it. There's a big difference between pointing out what I don't like in your playstyle and what I don't like in

you

, and you should realize that before you start acting offended about me trying to understand your play and its idiosyncrasies.

[fferyllt]

Yes, Pjo and you were my top picks at the start of the day yesterday…I especially didn’t like the way you and Bungles interacted..and if you look on that same reads list you would notice that Bungles’ name was directly above yours..i explained how this did not seem like his town game at all… considering I just came from one with him and that you were in that same game, you should have noticed the difference too… His one liner posts were not normal for him… Once he was replaced by hp, I did try and question him as I wanted to try and get a read on his slot and he seemed to be evading the question…

And yes, I did vote for him yesterday…but I don’t see how you think it came out of nowhere...the deadline was approaching and I couldn’t get anyone to vote Pjo with me…The only 2 wagons that were viable at the time were Antagon’s and hp’s… i had reservations about Antagon, as I normally like to play it safe, so preferrably did not want to vote him…and hp was a good vote..his pred’s actions weren’t his normal town, and hp's posts weren't much beyond trying to line up lynches…when he did answer my question, he said that Pjo was town but he still hadn’t read you, which also seemed a bit convenient… not to mention that his flip would also give me better insight on you..if he did flip scum, then I would bet even money that you were his buddy…

You'd lose that bet. I am obviously not doing a very good job of articulating why the timing of mrbungle's vote felt townish to me, but I originally played mafia on sites where sometimes players don't post long cases prior to voting, especially early day 1. There is an intimidation factor involved and also a "hmm...what did HE see?" factor for non-involved players. Two players gave me that vibe during a fairly close interval in the thread - MattP and mrbungles. I did not read it as scummy on either of their parts at the time. And per my usual, I didn't bite.

It was interesting that my lack of concern about a lack of case was cause for consternation. But, I figured a case would show up eventually or the votes would go away.

Anyway, I'm still a little concerned about you. It sounds to me like you, too, are lining up lynches here.

[Amrun]

@Tierce:

a) Nothing you said even remotely came close to accurately reflecting the things I said in-game.

b) You weren't even attempting to draw conclusions. If you had been, that would have been quite different. What you actually said was "this is a null tell."

c) You could have said the same thing in a way that would not have been rude, but you chose to be rude.

Especially given A and C, that's why I commented at all. If I had been brow beating people for considering any other possibility than the one I am considering (which I most certainly am not) OR if you hadn't deliberately gone on your way to say something that would step on just about anyone's toes, I would have just rolled my eyes and moved on.

But since there is literally no way one can interpret my posts that way, it bears commenting on to see how you would react.

Are you just being rude for rudeness' sake? Are you going to pretend you weren't being rude on purpose, which you CLEARLY were? Were you doing it to try and get a rise out of me and read me better?

The answer to these questions say something about your alignment.

Your response is to mollify me but continue to be rude, which, all in all, is a fairly good one alignment-wise. But it does not indicate that you are really trying to read me better, so it's not the answer I was hoping for. I thought you were somewhat scummy yesterday, but in light of the flip, I hesitantly changed my read to town. I would really like you to just towntell or scumtell so I can move on, but the paranoia is niggling at me. I have to sort out the things I find scummy in your play all the time from the things that actually are scummy (as with anyone).

[Tierce]

b) You weren't even attempting to draw conclusions. If you had been, that would have been quite different. What you actually said was "this is a null tell."

Oh okay because this isn't a legitimate conclusion. Right. Especially when you follow it up by saying that you think what

I

did is alignment-null--your conclusion is acceptable but mine isn't? See above on how your way must always be the one and only correct perception of things. It's not, and I'm going to judge your play for potential indications of alignment. If the conclusion I get to is

null

, I'm fairly sure I am still going to bring it up because I think that conclusion is important.

I'm done indulging that line of thought. As I said, I don't care if you think I'm rude, and you can't tell when people are addressing your play and not you. I'm not interested in your ranting, and I have far better things to do than deliberately getting a rise out of you, because then you act emotional and irrational in a way I cannot figure out alignment. So no, I wasn't doing that, but I am blunt and honest and not going to sugarcoat things for you or anyone.

[Amrun]

No, I said what you did was good for alignment, which in hindsight I can see is poor wording. What I mean is that I find your response fairly townie, but not AS townie as some iterations of all possible responses.

But that your conclusion is null is not what bothered me; it's that your wording was DELIBERATELY rude. There are tons of other ways to word the same observations that hold just as much information but are not rude. I was trying to determine your motivation in wording it that way -- which, in the end, seems to be rudeness for rudeness' sake. I don't really care what you think of me or my play, especially given that most (but not all) of your criticisms seem to stem, like this one, from highly selective reading. I can doggedly repeat that my conclusion is not the only right one, but you can conclude that I think my conclusion is the only right one and just ignore all the things I said because ?? (The ?? is what I was trying to figure out.)

Knowing that you're just being rude is important to me, because in this situation, scum is less likely to be rude for rudeness' sake. Making enemies gets you lynched faster.

[Tammy]

So I'm just going to be useless this day phase. I have a long drive tomorrow, and if I have some time tomorrow night, I'll do something. I'm going to be in airports/on planes for a good bit on Wednesday and thought I could do something then, but deadline is early.

I'm finding some of the irony on this page amusing. Don't know if that's the right word though, haven't slept much...can barely think.

What I do know is that of all the tinfoil hats going on I think mine is the prettiest. I do think it's possible whimsy messed up the name of whom he was referring in his first post cuz Matt never said that. But I also think its possible that he attacked me for attacking his partner and he realized he messed up and that's why he flaked. He did make two posts on Sunday and did log in on Monday, but never came back here.

There are a couple things bothering me with amruns play but I can't quite put my finger on it, ill see if I can figure it out. It might not be alignment related though.

Will move to hpleaves though.

Townreads are: tierce, zdenek, probs Oversoul, probs syryana, probs fferyllt, probs katsuki.

[Oversoul]

Don't argue with Tierce, Amrun.

It isn't worth it.

I think it is the ... Brutally honest type personality clash. Emphasis on brutal.

[Amrun]

Tammy that really IS tinfoil hat... But I think I kinda like it!! I don't think it's accurate because I independently think Matt is town. But it's so nice and wonderful and neat I wish it was true.

[MattP]

What if I told you guys that both HP and ffery are town

[MattP]

Fuck but the hammer on Antagon shit

[MattP]

HP asking if Antagon softclaimed Cultitante and asking why we aren't lynching that shows two things:

1) He was either faking spec of Antagon's role for towncred or he really thought Antagon could have been Cultitante
2) He either didn't know Cultitante wasn't a scum aligned role meaning he wasn't scum himself or he was trying to pretend he thought Cultitante was scum aligned

Both of those together seem like a stretch for feigned ignorance

[Amrun]

wait a minute what the fuck is cultitante

this is something i'm supposed to know ISN'T IT

[Amrun]

Oh, it was the apocalypse thingie, wasn't it?

Were we supposed to know that before it flipped? Have I forgotten something crucial I once knew?!

[MattP]

We were supposed to know there was a specific role, not its name. HP didn't refer to it by it's name but he assumed that it was a "bad guy"

That assumption seems unlikely for scum to feign

But idk I feel so stupid DONT LISTEN TO ME IM A STUPID LITTLE BOY

[Oversoul]

Like I said... Ignorance is a scum tell. I'm willing to kill HP over it but I would like a definitive cop on Tierce.
And by that I mean a vig kill.

Because you can't frame or fuck a vig shot.

I'm also willing to kill Syr over the ignorance thing.
I'm Also willing to kill Matt over that but I think he was legitimate. But you all need to reevaluate life choices if you thought a Demise flip was town. His curse is the reason Ganondorf exists in the Legend of Zelda series.

[Amrun]

WELL it's not unlikely if my koolaid is the tastiest. The scum likely know if there is/isn't two scum teams simply based on their team(s). If there is, he could easily assume it was on the other scum team.

And even then, I'm not sure how unlikely it is to feign it -- I almost want to agree, and almost had a moment of striking doubt, but then I thought... Why would town want us to autolynch the thingie even if it was scum? It changes the game in a way to favor scum. I don't really follow that train of thought.

Another possibility is assuming it is self-aligned (which is often denoted scum), which doesn't seem too strange to me. Myself, I never assumed it was town. I just assumed "who the fuck knows" and decided not to draw conclusions without more information.

Hp, feel free to chime in.

p-edit: My first thought was "necrophiliacs can fuck vig shots" and this is disturbing. I think I need a time out.

[MattP]

post_id=5036869 time=1371358721 user_id=10128]It might be all the stress but did Antagon just softclaim "the role"?

Why is he still alive and not hanging?

Let's talk about this post

Why would town actually ever want to lynch a player that puts us into countdown mode

[MattP]

His curse is the reason Ganondorf exists in the Legend of Zelda series.

Wtf are you a nerd??

[Amrun]

post_id=5036869 time=1371358721 user_id=10128]It might be all the stress but did Antagon just softclaim "the role"?

Why is he still alive and not hanging?

Let's talk about this post

Why would town actually ever want to lynch a player that puts us into countdown mode

Yeah, that's what I just said in the post above.

Like it didn't even cross my mind when I originally read it, just when you were talking about it above as a town tell. I was like "omg what if he's right, no my reaaads" (Exactly like this: )

But then I was like "no, what in the actual fuck"

[Zdenek]

I don't understand the point you are trying to make.
Town wouldn't want to lynch that role. Town or scum could want to lynch someone who soft-claimed that role.

I see it as hp pushing the lynch of a buddy for whatever reason he can come up with regardless of whether it makes logical sense.

This is to MattP's question.

[MattP]

Ok fine HP can be scum

I like this idea of coming into games halfway through and being like "NO HERE IS SOME CLARITY BITCHES" and then saving the day from a mislynch

But I'll deal

pedit: Yeah zd I realized I was being dumb

[Zdenek]

Oh and my theory is that there is an SK/secret voter, but that's neither here nor there.