Mafiascum.net

If Garmr SK and Spy joined this wagon well Id be the happiest slaxx in the whole world

Slaxx sell me I like CDB way more than Empire

Here lets make it more interesting



on for at least another hour

I have a null read on CBD but I might throw my vote on him if we run out of time and in danger of having no lynch. Still prefer A NS/Peabody lynch.

We need to come to SOME solution, faster than slower.

ok. I'm marginally more comfortable with an Empire lynch.

fuckin a im goin to sleep

Lolwagons reads much more town than his predecessor.

I don't understand why none of you contemplate a SleepyKrew-lynch. I seriously don't.

I'll read up on Empire specifically now. Spyrex and fferyllt pulling it gives me faith.

Spyrex and fferyllt: What are your views on SleepyKrew?

@ferryllt: my lynchpool is SleepyKrew - Plum - Empire and given his behavior from last night, well, I can't say I'm liking Brian all that much anymore. But SleepyKrew is on his wagon, which gives me enormous pause, and somehow I would understand that a miller is demotivated at a stage like this.

In post 932, Grimgroove wrote:Lolwagons reads much more town than his predecessor.

I don't understand why none of you contemplate a SleepyKrew-lynch. I seriously don't.

I'll read up on Empire specifically now. Spyrex and fferyllt pulling it gives me faith.

Spyrex and fferyllt: What are your views on SleepyKrew?

I feel like you have read his posts with the answer you expect already in mind. It may be that reading the thread in real time, and experiencing the conversational ebb and flow leads to a different impression. The previous owner of the slot did come off scummy but he also came off with the prickly over-reactiveness that I associate with newer players and players learning a new site's written and unwritten cultural rules and mores. In reading over your notes on the first pages, I felt like you didn't pick up on that aspect of his play. I never voted him because I had serious doubts that he was scum.

So, you and I had a different read on the first player in the slot, and hence had different expectations of SleepyKrew. I really liked SK's entrance into the thread. I liked his push on me first for being snooty about RVS and then later for putting down what an intentionally ambiguous looking vote. I didn't want to make the case right away. I wanted to see if other players also noticed what I did about Maestro's first three posts. Instead, some pressure votes followed mine without comment.

I think that SK is right that the other votes on that wagon were for different reasons, reasons that were not based on scumhunting.

From there, I feel like it's possible to characterize SK's posts as you have, but it's not what his motivations looked like to me as I followed along more or less in real time.

Your case makes me a little more cautious than I otherwise would have been, though.

@ferryllt: my lynchpool is SleepyKrew - Plum - Empire and given his behavior from last night, well, I can't say I'm liking Brian all that much anymore. But SleepyKrew is on his wagon, which gives me enormous pause, and somehow I would understand that a miller is demotivated at a stage like this.

I have never played with SleepyKrew or Plum before. I'm learning their playstyles as we go. I didn't feel like I connected well with Plum's reads and stances to begin with, but over time I've seen some convergence in how we are seeing the game. I don't have as strong a town read as I'd like, but I kinda feel like the lack is on my end.

Empire and I have one prior game. I was scum, and it was pretty scary going up against town-Empire (as well as most of the other players in that game). I'm just not seeing the same degree of aggressive scumhunting (and townhunting) in this game.

I don't know what to think of Brian right now, especially his not showing up tonight given we're now down to less than 24 hours. It could be demotivation, but I feel like he's not come under a degree of scrutiny that would cause him to wither.

So I'm here doing my re-read. I'm up to page 16 or so. I probably won't get a chance to discuss things with people if I hope to get my post done tonight. But something is coming together I guess.

I've just ISO'd Empire and I have to say: it's difficult not to be impressed.

I don't see what you mean by him not scumhunting or townhunting. 423 blew me off my socks in that regard. The level of analysis shown there is just how I would like to have done it.

And in 411 he provided a perspective on the miller claim I hadn't even considered before: pre-game scum QT-talk. It's true, scum could have devided this plan, and who better to perform it than Brian Skies, the newbie nobody will suspect of having thought of such a thing?

I can't see Empire-scum. I'm looking at Lolwagons' and Spyrex' ISO now to see what case he's got against him, but from what I've seen Empire did attack Spyrex, making the latter's vote suddenyl look quite opportunistic. This could be a blitzwagon, with a lack of town-consensus, that Spyrex is trying to force through on character rather than on argument.

It appears I inadvertently entered the Champions League by joining in this game. Slowly starting to feel this is all going over my head.

That said: I prefer a Brian-lynch over an Empire-lynch right now. 411 is an eye-opener and Brian's latest behavior fits that scenario perfectly.

I'll have more in about 12 hours.

I'm at page 34 and it's late, so I'm just gonna grind this thing out and go to sleep.

@Plum: Discrimination is discrimination. I have half the activity and number of posts as Garmr and I still feel like I've given you more content than him. The only things I've really seen Garmr do that's different from me is his initial push against ns in the beginning of the game and his reactionary push against Kaze. And in regards to activity, I think I've been pretty fair in comparison to the players I had to deal with in the game that just ended today: The Room of Doom. Now, I understand my activity is still an issue, but I still feel you're over-reacting. People get busy, yet I'm the only one that gets all the flak for it (CDB, YYR, Garmr). The only reasons why I'm not replacing out is because I like to finish what I started and I don't think it's fair to completely make a slot look bad and give it to some poor unfortunate soul replacing in.



- Town. This slot feels warm and fuzzy to me and completely unlike the game I played against her in Mismatched. She is actively engaging people, trying to make reads, and using meta.

- Town. This slot has felt I was scum from the start and for good reason. I feel like his distrust for me is legitimate based on my play. There was a small period where I was concerned he was scum trying to push my lynch, and then he questions SK's utility lynch against me. This is a town reaction.

- Town. I liked his trajectory of believing my claim and I still do. There was deliberation and I am satisfied with the answer he gave when questions about it. Kaze's scum-hunting feels genuine even though some people may disagree with it. His interactions with SK read to me as slightly irritated town. I know I said I wanted to talk to Peabody, but to be honest, I'm not completely caught up (I'm actually caught up I just don't remember what he wrote). I've already decided the slot is town for today.

- Town. Smudger had some issues with some of his earlier actions seeming somewhat opportunistic or shallow. However, his interactions with SK feel like irritated town in much the same way as Kaze feels that way. I was getting the feeling Smudger was getting annoyed at SK that SK kept telling him he wasn't scum-hunting when Smudger was convinced he was. I've been pretty happy with Lolwagons being town since he replaced in.

- Less town. This is mostly due to recent irritation. But it's not like the slot moves anywhere. The slot is asking incisive questions and the scumhunting feels legitimate. The irritation of having to deal with inactive players also reads as town.

- Town. During my re-read, a lot of the comments and thoughts actually read as town to me (yeah, go figure).

In post 686, ChannelDelibird wrote:

In post 626, notscience wrote:Everyone died ;-;

This post makes me think notscience is town. You'd think it was an easy thing to say but I've been burned recently by scum who just sat back and observed nothing happening while nothing was happening.

Then he goes and makes this post.

In post 706, ChannelDelibird wrote:I haven't done a thorough examination of all of notscience's games and I'm not going to for fun reasons. I'm using my limited anecdotal experience with him and a recent reminder from another game of how scum prefer it to form a hypothesis, which does the job of answering the question to myself of "would I be OK to lynch notscience today?".

This post feels somewhat genuine to me as it is the same exact question I constantly ask myself when dealing with notscience. So yeah, CTD gets to be town for a day. I still think the slot could be scum and I could easily slide it down into scum territory. It's mostly a gut thing (it's my gut and after the Room of Doom I'm going to do whatever I want with it).

- Town. The push against ns early looked town-motivated to me. The push against Kaze looked reactionary and bad, but he did follow it up with a decent argument that makes me think it's just town tunneling against his aggressor. Overall, it just feels like lost town.

- Null. I wish I could feel better about this slot, but I can't. The guy has been completely reading me based on my claim and not my actions. Not to mention the whole neighbor thing that I don't want to get into right now. Nothing he says really resonates with me in either direction.

- Null. I kinda just stopped reading. I don't really have an opinion because I didn't have an opinion on the slot to begin with. There wasn't enough content generated by YYR to make me care enough. As for Grimgroove, it looks like he generated a lot of content the last few pages but I just haven't had a chance to look at it. Now, if I had to choose, I'd choose town. From the little content YYR did generate, it did look like the slot had good town-motivated intentions in it's actions.

- Scum. I still don't like notscience's easy flip-flop in terms of voting me early on in the day. Backing off of the early wagon looks like it could of been done by anyone. The slot feels somewhat obnoxious in its attempts at townreads. I don't understand what's with the post-by-post-analysis. He knows I discriminate in favor of more verbose and logical posts, preferably walls. So I can't really get the angle and am wondering if it's directed at me or at everyone. Regardless, he's a claimed neighbor and should be sorted out later. If I had to choose one between the neighbors being scum, I would choose ns at this point.

- Scum. I actually feel like Empire could be town, so this is mostly by association through SK trying to pull votes off of Maestro than anything. I still like his reads list in general and some of his recent posts strike me as town. However, his opinion of me being coached for my miller claim feels like reaching and his Kaze/ns reads still bug me.

- Scum. During the first read-through of the game, it just felt like a town player replacing into a slot where the predecessor made a poor play. "Attacking everything that moves" initially felt town to me. However, during my re-read, I get a completely different view. It mostly feels like scum fighting for self-preservation and throwing mud at whoever to see what sticks. The discussions with Kaze and Smudger feel like he's forcing them down our throats and I don't like how hard he was pushing those wagons. How the part in italics would read as town-motivated to you guys is beyond me.

Now, I see a few wagons forming, but the only one I'm interested in isn't even up for consideration. I'm quite disappointed. With my luck, I might not even be around in time for the deadline hammer, but who knows. You already have my claim, so it's whatever.

Yeah!
Let's do this.

VOTE: Sleepy Krew

Every reads list you guys post sways me again. Brian Skies isn't scum. Look at his read on Sleepy Krew, it's so wonderfully correct and just like how I foresaw: if you re-read the topic you can see SleepyKrew is scum. It's not something that can be seen from one post, it's something that you feel, through his interactions with everything, on a whole.

So, I started a little game that I thought would be fun, but it got tedious after 5 minutes. I did manage to get something out of it, I think.

ISO SleepyKrew.

What is the first thing you notice?


QUESTIONS!
Questions everywhere. His entire ISO reads like a barrage of questions, it's a vulcan gun set on topspeed firing questions in every direction.

sleepyKrew has more than 180 posts in this topic so going too far with this exercise wouldn't be good, but these are the questions from just his first 39 posts (so not even half of his activity).



Observation number 1:
Most of these questions have two things in common: 1. Tedious to answer. 2. Pointless.

1. is what scum wants because it makes everyone who doesn't answer in full look bad.
2. Pointless as there is no clear track of follow-up that I can discern. SleepyKrew ending up on the miller-wagon is an indication of this.

What is the possible follow-up of all these "why"-questions? You think scum can't come up with "reasons"? It's the easiest thing to do.
"What are your thoughts", same.

SleepyKrew doesn't mind long posts so my question to him: Pick five questions out of that list and tell me what you learned from them.

Observation 2:
SleepyKrew asks more than he answers. He's taking this game to anything that's not about him, even when talking about him. When you talk about him, he turns it around and makes it about you, too lazy to find examples, to useless in his votes, too this or too that. This is the sandstorm I've been talking about, and SleepyKrew created it with his tempest of ?????????

When reading SleepyKrew you have to cut away all this weight of questions, and you'll see there's very little left of him.

So conflicted

Not liking this bit AT ALL

In post 937, Brian Skies wrote:With my luck, I might not even be around in time for the deadline hammer, but who knows.

What does that have to do with luck? You're sounding like the "world is against me"-type of person here. AtE...
What does it even matter if you're around for the hammer or not? You look like you just said all you wanted to say.

I wish SleepyKrew-Brian Skies in a scumteam would make more sense, life would be easier.

Where are you guys?

I'll be back tomorrow in around 14 hours, so I'll be here during the last hour of deadline. If the SleepyKrew-train didn't gain any traction I'm aleady now claiming willingness to hop on Brian's choochoo.

Empire, no, not feeling it, sorry, you'll have to look elsewhere for support for that one.

@Gg: It actually has nothong to do with that. I live on the west coast so I could easily be 3 hrs behind people and I have a bunch of classes today. I'm not a fortune teller so I dont know when the hammer will come or who it will be on.

I should be able to get on in two hrs for a bit though.

I'm not scum-reading Lolwagons anymore. My problems were mostly with Smudger.

Of the new wagons forming, I like the CDB wagon and the SleepyKrew wagon. I don't feel either has been given due attention today. SK's coaching is weird. CDB is more of a gut-possible scum read. However, I'm more inclined to think SK is town because his questions are thoughtful... Except... well... a lot of them were pointless. I'm interested in hearing his response to GG, saying what he learned from his questions. Empire looks more town to me than the other two, and I think his catchup-reads post is his best. I'm not unskeptical though. Meh, my thoughts are so scattered.

A scum flip on SK will clear GG, who is already clear in my mind. I'm not really sure what more information will come of it. Associative tells will be weak since everyone pegged him as town. On the bright side thought, we'd be free of one red. A town flip on SK will tell us virtually nothing. CDB has been largely null to me, but I'm willing to see him flip. If Brian is town, CDB's method of questioning at the beginning of the game looks like scum eager to put his two cents in and look as townie as possible. Additionally, he's casted doubt on my slot, which seems to be the popular slot of the day. Opportunistic.



A BrianSkies/Empire lynch will most likely not lead to a scum flip, however, a Brian flip would lead to many more associative tells than I originally thought when writing my catchup posts.

GG, some of those questions don't look like they were intended to scum-hunt. Some are pointless. Some are thoughtful.

I'd like to see how SK answers.

Unexpectedly busy today, haven't got a chance to read anything. Very sorry. Possibly will be able to tonight if I can put off sleep long enough, but tomorrow if not.

It's not easy finding mafia games in the huge pile of threads SK has posted in.

Scum game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Town game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Town game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4566495

Town game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go (replaced out)

Town game: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 9#p4430758

This is through page 4 of his list of threads and I'm too tired and bored to keep looking.

From initial scan, I'm seeing that short posts and mostly asking questions is his style. In games where he was in at the start, he seems more likely to gambit or troll at town. This game has been srs bzns and not really conducive to trolling as a play style. I'll look in more detail later, but I am not really seeing the scum motivation in his posts.

Disclaimer: I could be biased about accepting grimgroove's impressions and analyses due to having been massively misread by him in a where he replaced in at the start of day 2.