I think the best way forward here is for Icon to pick a group of 2-3 to inspect. To minimize info leak, they could maybe do it randomly, or semi-randomly (exclude an unstated pool of townreads, and randomize from among the rest), but I'm okay with either. (Of course, don't offer justification for any player's inclusion/exclusion.)
I agree with this and think Ico should play everything close to the vest from this point forward and avoid giving reads as further information only benefits scum. I think the pool should probably be come from suspicious people but if it's not sure of its reads then it can randomize the selection (excluding the TD as a possibility, obviously). Thinking on this: if the pool if 5 players and we hit tea, then we can eliminate one and check half of the remaining 4 on the next day, either we get a tea result and eliminate in that 50/50, or we don't and know we can eliminate in the other 50/50. This gives us at least 1 guaranteed scum elimination by day 4, which we need to not lose. If those 5 get cleared, that kind of sucks but we just have to hunt in the remaining pool. If we do a pool of 3 instead, we can guarantee a scum elimination by day 3 if we hit tea, if we don't, we can do another pool of 3 and hope to hit tea there and guarantee an elimination by day 4. A pool of 4 just seems like an unhappy medium now that I look at it this way. I think I might prefer the group of 5 method in this case because it gets us more information sooner but I'm willing to listen to what other people think.
Right, just realized we can pick 5 today and if we miss we can do 3 tomorrow and cross our fingers, if we can't find one scum in 9/15 players (the checks+today's vote) then we probably deserve to lose the game anyway.
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:11 am
by Not Known 15
Scumreads:
-NorwegianboyEE
In post 483, NorwegianboyEE wrote:Oh wait!
Execute Maxwell
This can be my standard "Don’t really know where to vote so i’ll park here" slot.
Gut reads are an easy hide place for scum lacking true reads. And they do not say on whom these reads are.
-notscience
Mainly for triggering kuribo`s rage that way, but also because after that, there are almost exclusively shitposts(or defense), as if they are scum trying to hide connections to their other scummates(instead of scumhunting), which they probably are.
-Hel
Their disruptive posts also very rarely contain reads or pushes. Looks like scum going the "go crazy to get townread" route to me.
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:12 am
by Titus
I'm ok with an execution/invest on NK 15.
Am I reading right that both Hel and Ico are claiming PA now?
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:12 am
by Something_Smart
Hel's claim was a joke. Ico is uncc'd.
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:15 am
by notscience
So your big reads you were hiding were lolposters and me for triggering the rage of someone I didn’t realize who they were (and lolposting)
Okay buddy, that’s clearly a town train of thought
Should I be? I don't think you've done anything particularly town-indicative, you're voting the counterwagon to my top suspect, and said top suspect has rather strange interactions with you. Of course, I don't claim to already know two scum with 100% certainty, but I'd say the evidence is against you more than it is for you.
--
In post 915, Menalque wrote:It seems odd that scum!nk would insist on getting to choose the lynch while knowing that the town!PA is out there somewhere and able to CC at any point
And if he really thought it was me and he’s scum, then why worry about it so much? Idk maybe it’s worth it if the equation was that if I was town I never could CC because it would out the tombody daughter but idk
I’m thinking NK town
I'm inclined to agree. I don't see what NK15 did as anything resembling a real scum plan.
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:17 am
by Menalque
I think it’s strange given your townreads that I’m not also in your townreads, yes. What’s strange about my interactions with umlaut?
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:17 am
by GuiltyLion
In post 698, Menalque wrote:I think it’s ironic GL that you’re accusing me of maybe “wanting” to TR datisi and not basing my read on her on her actual posts because I feel like that’s exactly what you’re doing with ali
I mean I think I can point to what feels like an infinite number of posts where Alisae spots and calls out things I think are worth calling out, where we share reads on a situation or a player, where I feel Alisae is doing things to push town in a useful direction. The only reason I'd have to scum read Alisae at this point is sheer paranoia that e's scumgame is
so godly
that I can never feel confident townreading em.
I really cannot say the same about Datisi and as far as I can tell the only reason you've given for the townread is 'playing to town!meta' like... what? What exactly has Datisi done that Datisi doesn't do as scum??
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:19 am
by Moment
In post 924, Menalque wrote:I think umlaut being counterwagoned is probably another point in favour of scum!notscience
Who exactly is it on the Umlaut wagon that you think is scum defending notscience?
--
In post 931, Menalque wrote:I think it’s strange given your townreads that I’m not also in your townreads, yes. What’s strange about my interactions with umlaut?
What is it about my townreads that indicates to you that you would be a part of them? Be specific, please.
I didn't say that you have strange interactions with Umalut – I said that
he
has strange interactions with you. Off the top of my head, the "we all agree Menalque is town" comes to mind.
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:22 am
by Radical Rat
In post 824, Iconeum wrote:earlier scummy vibes and here 'not really liking the plan, but thinking it's solid nontheless'?
Still catching up, but I just want to clarify that I meant I don't like that NK15 claimed so early so that he could drive the executions while also not even really playing. It makes the game less fun, and I think Port Authority is more valuable hidden.
However, since he DID claim, the plan he proposed was indeed solid. I didn't (and don't) LIKE it, but it would have a pretty good chance of working.
I know things probably changed since this VC but I want to inspect the Wheat group here, especially if Umlaut is town
VOTE TO INSPECT: Wheat
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:25 am
by Not Known 15
In post 902, username wrote:Like, a guy who's putting to "protect the real PA" is t making a post that's like "okay everyone follow my lead"
Correct.
I didn`t want to protect the real PA. I wanted to protect the TD. There were three possibilities:
-Menalque is the PA, and Datisi is the TD. In this case, Menalque cannot claim which would cause a very bad situation. But me claiming fixes that, removes suspicion from Menalque, and allows me to eliminate anyone but these two.
-My thoughts were wrong and I get counterclaimed. In this case we have a claimed PA(finally) who can direct our lynches, and I can tell you why I did what I did. I continue to believe that outing the PA and making them choose all lynches is good, not bad.
-My thoughts were wrong and I do not get counterclaimed. In this case we have a terrible PA and probably not good chances to win anyways.
In post 916, Hel wrote:What's the advantage to scum for getting shipmaster to claim? I can actually kinda believe NOt Known would take 7 seriously, and try and provide "cover".
But if he was doing that, why try and seize complete control? Not Known, don't you think shipmaster!Menalque would counterclaim you after you do something like that which is very beneficial to scum?
UNVOTE:
If NK15 actually believed Menalque's claim was likely to be a genuine slip-up, they would know Menalque couldn't actually hard-cc them because that outs the TD as well. From that perspective grabbing control like that reads as massively scummy.
Except that counterclaiming as scum means that I will get checked, at minimum. Which means an early and free scum lynch - terrible with White Flag rules. Me getting checked isn`t so bad for town, though.
if you were town, you don't need his permission to shed his blood because murdering him would be righteous
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:29 am
by Moment
I will concede that if Norwegian is scum that makes notscience being scum far more likely, and vice versa.
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:30 am
by Not Known 15
In post 929, notscience wrote:So your big reads you were hiding were lolposters and me for triggering the rage of someone I didn’t realize who they were (and lolposting)
Okay buddy, that’s clearly a town train of thought
Your reasoning is terrible. The reason for fakeclaiming was Menalque and their idiotic claim at the beginning.
The reason for not giving reads was to credibly fake being PA AND because I actually knew who the PA and TD were(Menalque), in case no one CC`d me(save for the unlikely case of a dumb PA not counterclaiming).
if you were town, you don't need his permission to shed his blood because murdering him would be righteous
I had already voted him at this point and was memeing him getting the final word over everything.
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:32 am
by GuiltyLion
In post 791, Hel wrote:This doesn't even have reasons attached. How can you "especially like" it?
idk I guess I just basically tried to put myself in Norwegian's eyes and see if the reads and the way he's played make sense, we've played together a lot recently and I felt his not putting myself as a townread was genuine (no effort to pocket/TMI townread me), I share the suspicion on Datisi, I liked that he's townreading Titus/Alisae. I'm not someone who needs reasons for every read especially ones I agree with or feel I understand - which is maybe a flaw in my game and perhaps I'm too hasty to TR him there, but it is what it is.
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:35 am
by notscience
In post 939, Not Known 15 wrote:Your reasoning is terrible. The reason for fakeclaiming was Menalque and their idiotic claim at the beginning.
The reason for not giving reads was to credibly fake being PA AND because I actually knew who the PA and TD were(Menalque), in case no one CC`d me(save for the unlikely case of a dumb PA not counterclaiming).
What are you even on?
Please point to my faulty reasoning, I’m right here bucko.
Your claim was you faked it to protect them from a meme claim on like page two of the game? And you’re acting like you did this super protown thing (didn’t you post after that claim anyways?)
I called your shit out as sketch and I was proven right.
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:37 am
by GuiltyLion
In post 864, Datisi wrote:i guess i'm more interested as to why - i gave out multiple reads in the same posts, all with the same level of explanation (i.e. none), so i found it weird that you'd single out that one read as TMI and ignore/not comment on the rest
because I wasn't townreading Moment
In post 864, Datisi wrote:re 683: can you tell me why you think posts like those are bad?
what's your read on Hel? What's your read on Norway? Do you think the contradiction you're calling out makes Norway scum, or are you just posting just to post?
In post 91, username wrote:Okay so this is a fakegod setup which means there's slim to no chance of finding a breaking strategy
I'm usually the first to object to denying tribute to the blood gods on day one but what if we no-execute and send out shipments / shipment check And work off that on day 2?
Reduces our risk of outting / killing the tomboy on day one. There's no night kill, and then we have a jumping off point tomorrow.
No. We only have 5 chances to find scum. Reducing that to 4 is not a good idea.
In post 908, NorwegianboyEE wrote:If NK15 is town then he’s misplayed hard. But i’m not really willing to take that chance.
He's literally a safe elimination (and in that sense it would be a mistake to not flip him or check him at some point) but also some of the scummiest players in the game (Datisi, Umlaut) are flocking to voting him like flies on rotting meat
heh
okay Maxwell are we town together again cause I would very much like to be town together with you again!
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:42 am
by notscience
Hi friends- nk claimed he fakeclaimed to protect menalque after his meme claim page 1. NK had a post after the claim prior to his fake claim and he didn’t even comment on it but felt that moved over a RVS claim that he had to protect them because “he knew who they were” like we all aren’t reading the same thread. He flat out agreed he was avoiding giving reads to give the illusion he was the pa which is literally what I called him as scum doing like 20 pages ago.
The reads he shared were all lolposters and myself for the kuribo thing which is lazy at best if he’s town but much more likely scum taking safe stances.
Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:42 am
by GuiltyLion
In post 943, GuiltyLion wrote:what's your read on Hel? What's your read on Norway? Do you think the contradiction you're calling out makes Norway scum, or are you just posting just to post?
also on this line of thought to - with respect to the Norway/Hel reads, why can I not find those in your posts already?? Why does it feel like I have to actually pull teeth to get any real solving from you? That's not how you've felt in any of our past games together
I think the best way forward here is for Icon to pick a group of 2-3 to inspect. To minimize info leak, they could maybe do it randomly, or semi-randomly (exclude an unstated pool of townreads, and randomize from among the rest), but I'm okay with either. (Of course, don't offer justification for any player's inclusion/exclusion.)
I agree with this and think Ico should play everything close to the vest from this point forward and avoid giving reads as further information only benefits scum. I think the pool should probably be come from suspicious people but if it's not sure of its reads then it can randomize the selection (excluding the TD as a possibility, obviously). Thinking on this: if the pool if 5 players and we hit tea, then we can eliminate one and check half of the remaining 4 on the next day, either we get a tea result and eliminate in that 50/50, or we don't and know we can eliminate in the other 50/50. This gives us at least 1 guaranteed scum elimination by day 4, which we need to not lose. If those 5 get cleared, that kind of sucks but we just have to hunt in the remaining pool. If we do a pool of 3 instead, we can guarantee a scum elimination by day 3 if we hit tea, if we don't, we can do another pool of 3 and hope to hit tea there and guarantee an elimination by day 4. A pool of 4 just seems like an unhappy medium now that I look at it this way. I think I might prefer the group of 5 method in this case because it gets us more information sooner but I'm willing to listen to what other people think.
Right, just realized we can pick 5 today and if we miss we can do 3 tomorrow and cross our fingers, if we can't find one scum in 9/15 players (the checks+today's vote) then we probably deserve to lose the game anyway.
This plan looks good. You should lynch me because I am definitely not the TD, and would need to be checked anyways, and leave the rest to Iconeum.
Two things you should absolutely do though:
-
On days when selecting a lynch outside of an approved group, Iconeum decides the lynch.(no tea found days)
(avoids lynching TD)
-
Refrain from posting any more votes today before Iconeum has selected the group(do not quicklynch me and kill the plan).