Mafiascum.net

In post 921, floo wrote:I'm still doubting why a town!Vasex likes sheep mentality over his independent conclusions.

I understand this criticism , usually I talked like that about "sheep mentality" word in word, especially if I play with people I know very well and my opinion there worth a lot, so I don't need to listen my townies there, but this is other situation. And usually in unknown situation it is enough for me to find 1-2 townies who are rather experienced to follow their opinion. Usually it works on my experience. And I don't bet everything on that, this is just one of my tactics here, I also think about other arguments on everybody.

In post 924, Battle Mage wrote:i almost do want a massclaim selfishly, just to understand who the PR(s) are, but it's a stupid idea.

Tomorrow is good. At least we know for sure that Kitty is not PR. If we hang Kitty today...

*is good for that

If HUB + TRQ are experienced townies and they know what they are doing, shouldn't you first examine their arguments and understand them before blindly voting for flow trap?

the case on floo for lurking - diminishing by the post.

In post 928, floo wrote:If HUB + TRQ are experienced townies and they know what they are doing, shouldn't you first examine their arguments and understand them before blindly voting for flow trap?

I saw HUBs argument that he is ready to hang FT even if FT is townie
I like it

I really don't understand why BM is so sure that Floo is townie. Could you repeat your explanation in few simple words?

you like it? i can tolerate a policy lim in 1 situation - where the player in question is being abusive to other players and making the game unpleasant. didn't think that was the case here.

Not abusive, but the rest is correct. Without him it is more pleasent and easier to understand the rest, not thinking about FT again.

In post 931, Vasex wrote:I really don't understand why BM is so sure that Floo is townie. Could you repeat your explanation in few simple words?

yep - case on floo sucks, but general consensus is that's enough to elim - which suggests Floo is more likely town and low-hanging fruit for a mis-elim (yes, implies at least 1 of you 3 pushing this is scum, and least likely you given the others are just riding your coat-tails). Plus Floo was off-wagon yesterday, and so untainted by that mess.

So I don't want this to seem too off topic, but to understand my POV on Flow Trap, it might help to review the way 2ndchosen 1 (mafia goon) handled his claim in 2054:

In post 649, 2ndchosen1 wrote:not claiming

In post 661, 2ndchosen1 wrote:

In post 651, Krazy wrote:if you regard your reads list as shitty and barebones, why was the other readslist also shitty and barebones?

....what? of course it was, I'm working 13 hour days and am generally tired., I'm frankly surprised no one clutched their pearls and wnet *gasp* iioa! course that'd be to easy and I'm already on the chopping block, might be better to do nothing and letem hang.

I'm not vlaiming. you can hammer a policy on me if you want for that. msybe I am PR, naybe I'm not. yiu can take that chance. ;et's be honest ylu'll hammer me for all this snyway.

I don't movr my vote to wagpns to whatever is the current hot wagon, I don't want to be a sheep

@kasyam what're your current thoufgts on my wagon? am I acting as expectef?

In post 689, 2ndchosen1 wrote:fwiw I did claim, I breadcrumbed vanilla
"I'm not vlaiming. you can hammer a policy on me if you want for that. msybe I am PR, naybe I'm not. yiu can take that chance. ;et's be honest ylu'll hammer me for all this snyway."
Vlaiming - V
Msybe - Replaced A
naybe - N
yiu - I
;ets - replaced L
ylu'll - L
snyway - Replaced A

***

In post 935, 2ndchosen1 wrote:the gambit was based off of what I heard from Hayker, where suicidal things tend to be towny. I was legit expecting Kazyan to not vote me immediately after the "no."

So refusing to claim, followed by a backpedal to a VT claim, is a process that can very easily reflect scum motivation, in large part because scum may need to either a) stall because they're trying to decide the best fakeclaim or b) 'seem too scummy to be scum'

which is why you pretty much just always call flow trap's bluff day 1, it's not that they are always scum there, but there's so much potential scum motivation behind their posts that day 2 will be very hard to read even if they're town

but actually I was kinda wondering, did I actually get 2/2 scum refusing to claim day 1 then backpedaling to VT? I was like, considering whether I should write a blog post in Mafia Discussion about how scum should handle day 1 claiming to be added to the mod's IC posts. As it is maybe I should still do that in post to this game to discuss flow trap's play vs 2ndchosen1's play.

In any case after seeing 2ndchosen1 flip red in 2054, the likelihood that I was going to let flow trap survive day 1 after *doing the exact same play* was pretty much 0%, I get why my push there may have seem kinda hypertunneled though

also the argument that "this matched flow traps" meta does nothing for me, until flow trap has more scum games *on this site* I don't think a discussion of their meta is at all productive. Meta isn't "they did a thing as town previously", or if it is you're probably not using meta right

I still miss it. Why Floo is more townie than anybody for you?
If he is mafia, he knows the side of flow trap, that's why it is easy to cry that he is townie, knowing, that the rest of the town is going to hang the wrong man (that's why untained). And knowing that there are no big chances that smb will listen to suspicious floo in this situation to stop hanging flow trap.
So the death of vanilla townie flow trap doesn't make floo more townie than the others.
And if we will think about the night kill much, the position of Ydra was - Floo/Kitty, so they have a motive to kill her (if this is not only PR seeking).
So there is no big problems with Floo to be a scum, but you are so sure and I still cannot get your point. Many people scumread him? Who? Are there many votes? Partners couldn't vote him during random voting when there is no danger? I cannot hang Floo the second day

I also would get why it might have seemed like I had some cognitive load in the ft push since *holy shit this dude is doing the exact same thing as the scum in my other game* is not an argument I can actually make in this game while that game is ongoing and probably made my conviction seem disproportionate to my stated arguments

Vasex, your other question was why I had KT as a townlean early, so I'll go over some thoughts:

In post 141, KittyTacky wrote:I play lots of Town Of Salem but my experience with forum Mafia is packing. I'll read through this thread and write something up later.

This veers NAI, but I see early volunteering of previous experience from a new player as +townie. Not a hard tell but some new scum may still be trying to decide how hard they want to play the newbie card. I'll call this +1 townpoint

In post 146, KittyTacky wrote:Anyways I'm getting a mild scumread on flow trap. Dodging questions is seen as quite scummy where I come from.

FOS: flow trap

Not voting yet because it would put them on L-2/E-2 (2 from being lynched/eliminated). If neither Ydrasse and Vasex are scum and I'm wrong, then the two scums could then quickhammer him.

I guess a lot of people don't like the f-1 vote on flow trap, but actually if there was something scummy in his iso, I'd say the nervousness in voting here would be scummy, but I kinda handwaved this since it felt like other-site-meta. What I did like was the singular push on a single player. I think this feels more like NAI now (I could see someone arguing there could be +1 scumpoint here), but yesterday it felt more like +1 townpoint because I thought he might be onto something with FT

In post 158, KittyTacky wrote:Well you soft-claimed PR way back. Mafia is likely to target you anyways since a PR dying is good for them regardless of what it is but your soft-claim provides no info to us. Share with the class.

This is another +1 townpoint for me, I feel like scum are often reluctant to directly engage in discussion of PR softs in worry of blowback

In post 158, KittyTacky wrote:Not really, TBH. Nothing that can be well-articulated.

This was in response to asking if he had any other reads other than Flow Trap. For me this was like +3 townpoints, and was the main reason I listed KittyTacky with Vasex in the RussiaBloc as good townleans. I still kinda like this post, and KT isn't super pinging me right now either? Although I need to fully reread this iso since this day 1 reasoning needs review, but I've liked KT's most recent posting

In post 863, KittyTacky wrote:Where I come from, fucking around like FT was and then waiting a long time to give a claim is... Practically an instant hang. Okay I admit the E-1 post was badly-written but how am I scummy for pushing on a borderline-trolling player who turned out to be a townie? Play stupid games win stupid prizes.

this feels real to me

like it's not a hard tell, but this still veers town to me. this doesn't feel like a scum that is trying to backpedal off the scum he pushed for misflip

In post 934, Battle Mage wrote:yep - case on floo sucks, but general consensus is that's enough to elim - which suggests Floo is more likely town and low-hanging fruit for a mis-elim (yes, implies at least 1 of you 3 pushing this is scum, and least likely you given the others are just riding your coat-tails). Plus Floo was off-wagon yesterday, and so untainted by that mess.

So you just DECIDED that he is townie, like imagined or smth, and you are trying to all-in on that with no good explanation?

HUB, floo is mafia scum?

Is Floo a mafia scum?

I agree that pushing floo for post count isn't great. He's positionally scummy insofar as if he'd hammered flow trap, I'd probably be townreading him more, there is a world where he was fishing for towncred for white knighting the townie... but he also could just be town defending town. I need to reread his iso, but I don't remember being super pinged by his posting directly, it's more like the game just kinda makes more sense if he's scum.

I'm really intrigued by Battle Mage's posting though, and I want to:
-reread flow trap's trajectory on floo
-reread Ydra on floo
-evaluate BM's read of floo
-evaluate BM's play today

all of this though is stuff that will take time, and that is time that I just don't think I have today, but I will get to all of this as soon as I can. I will say I haven't had hard townpings from floo and if ALL of my townreads are correct (vasex+jessie) + (kittytacky as townlean) then the main world I'm looking at is a floo/BM world, but BM feels pretty off meta right now and I just want to think more about that slot and make sure I'm not giving someone a townpass too easily. I do think it makes more sense to flip off wagon today since the wagon all in all felt pretty townie to me, it's harder for me to understand a "nah, flow trap is a bad day 1" POV than a 'flow trap was a fine d1 even if they were a miss.'

I'm never voting Jessie today, not that she was on the table anyway

In post 942, Vasex wrote:Is Floo a mafia scum?

if you're town and Jessie is town then I think that's 66% chance of yes, right?

I just don't want to be like "omg let's speedlim floo" until I reread flow trap's iso knowing they were town now, and get a better grip on how I feel about BM

also need to reread Jim, I've felt townvibes when I talk to Jim in real time but I remember being early pinged, probably veers town but need to review that iso too

In post 874, Vasex wrote:If Kitty is townie, than mafia Floo and BM/Jim.

you've ruled out BM/Jim as a pair?

In post 946, Happy Unbirthday Boon wrote:you've ruled out BM/Jim as a pair?

I think we'll lose if there is no at least one scum in Kitty-Floo

If you are thinking that Floo can be mafia, then we have a pair of players where 1 mafia scum should be among them according to the opinions of all players.
So we need to hang them both, one after another, especially if the first one of them will be townie... We shouldn't stop because of that.
And the partner to the scum, that will be hanged, will be found on the last stage by two townies.
This is fast plan that even doesn't require to talk much about all of that the whole week.
But we can talk, yeah.

I don't like floo at all. I read him again now. He builds serious otputs on the first townie execution, like everyone was absolutely sure that flow trap is mafia, but it is not true. And now it is too convinient for mafia to use this argument against townies for their mistakes (townie make mistakes oftenly). Only BM and Floo now using this argument. And if Kitty didn't talk today (I didn't like what he said and his reasons) I would be sure that Floo is definitely mafia.