Mafiascum.net

In post 900, Greeting wrote:Hm, StrangeMatter’s reaction was too nervous for my liking.

Anyone willing to vote them out today?

nervous? in what way

In post 916, frogsfrogs wrote:Ok, I think Strange is totally right about greeting seeming to parrot other people's reads of them,,, I think greeting's explanation for implosion is really weak and weird, even, too. You think that implosion is slightly less townie for taking action to back off on Val's train after he selfvoted? Scum would totally take advantage of the probably anti-town play there. It's like you would have preferred Val get quick hammered.

also are you seriously using another players meta to read me

woops dont know why that was quoted the post was directed at greeting

frogs are you able to make an opinion of your own
i have a townlean on you and i dont really want that to drop

In post 915, catboi wrote:Greeting, look at MafMen trying to say you/Val was scum theater and tell me if you think that's a theory a townie really has?

do not treat that as the main point of my reads
i found them both individually scummy and so i looked for potentially fake interactions? is it confbias to actively look for something to support my theory? yes, and im conscious of this which is why im more hesitant to vote val

in all fairness greetings recent posts lead me to believe im an absolute clown but whatever

Actually I'm going to look into something. Maybe I was thinking of the wrong person since I clearly remember a Val89 and FrogFrogs scumteam being mentioned together.

I can probably do MafMen. I'm like, especially susceptible to confirmation bias this game for whatever reason and so me thinking his recent stuff from like a few days ago was townish combined with catboi meta-casing him as town was enough that I kind of ignored him. But under the theory that the last few days would be especially difficult for scum to effectively bluff their way through, he is a player who, well, was absent and wouldn't have had to do that.

StrangeMatter, I don't think Greeting is copying my reads, the point of reads is that if they're sensible people should be able to come to their own conclusions... and besides, the way I'm reading Greeting has little to do with Greeting's own reads.

In post 928, MafMen wrote:frogs are you able to make an opinion of your own
i have a townlean on you and i dont really want that to drop

What do you mean by "i don't really want that to drop?" Like, you don't want frogs to be scum?

In post 923, MafMen wrote:so lets make that 5 different wagons you participated on

This is a weird comment - why are you mentioning it? Do you think participating on 5 different wagons is scummy? I personally think there are almost no scum who would be brave enough to jump wagons that much in a newbie game, where that kind of thing is stereotyped as scummy.

No, I was just outright wrong on that end. It's still is extremely weird that part of it is very very close to what Implosion has said.

It really rubs me the wrong way that Greeting is suddenly advocating for everyone to focus on me and MafMen. I get that attention to a slot is almost always good, that's how you read someone, but this just comes off to me as odd and I can't exactly put my finger on it but it feels...desperate to get people to push either of our slots?

if it was scummy i would have said it was
just i can tell why everyone who catboi set his sights on became frustrated

In post 932, implosion wrote:

In post 928, MafMen wrote:frogs are you able to make an opinion of your own
i have a townlean on you and i dont really want that to drop

What do you mean by "i don't really want that to drop?" Like, you don't want frogs to be scum?

im arrogant and dont like being wrong LOL

In post 934, StrangeMatter wrote: It really rubs me the wrong way that Greeting is suddenly advocating for everyone to focus on me and MafMen. I get that attention to a slot is almost always good, that's how you read someone, but this just comes off to me as odd and I can't exactly put my finger on it but it feels...desperate to get people to push either of our slots?

Let's take a look at my readslist, shall we?

I mentioned three people as moderate scumleans or scumleans: yourself, frogsfrogs and Val89. I also mentioned MafMen as a neutral read.

It is mathematically impossible for all four players to be scums. At least two of them are town (but I am about 80% confident that there are two scums amongst these four players). What I am trying to do is to find common ground amongst townies to vote out someone basing on my readslist. I ruled out Val89, because catboi, the player I trust the most at this point, thinks his reactions are townie. I am looking for a compromise and also, I have to admit that there is a plausible explanation for his actions if he is town. It's hard to swallow your pride but it's even harder to deal with a game lost because of having too much pride.

I'm obviously not going to suggest to frogsfrogs that he vote for himself. Which is why I asked them to look at you and MafMen. Similarly, if you are town, I am not asking you to consider voting yourself but to look at MafMen and frogs.

Why are you suggesting that all of the people in your scumlean look towards each other for a compromise...?

In post 938, StrangeMatter wrote:Why are you suggesting that all of the people in your scumlean look towards each other for a compromise...?

Because two of them are town and I want to hear their opinions. I also want to hear the opinions of the scums.

Why are you asking this question?

In post 939, Greeting wrote:

In post 938, StrangeMatter wrote:Why are you suggesting that all of the people in your scumlean look towards each other for a compromise...?

Because two of them are town and I want to hear their opinions. I also want to hear the opinions of the scums.

Why are you asking this question?

Because rereading it, that feels potentially like scum doing something opportunistic, in a way that you want town members to rip into each other.

I'm still going to read into them but I'm going to just put a pin in this and shut up.

In post 940, StrangeMatter wrote:

In post 939, Greeting wrote:

In post 938, StrangeMatter wrote:Why are you suggesting that all of the people in your scumlean look towards each other for a compromise...?

Because two of them are town and I want to hear their opinions. I also want to hear the opinions of the scums.

Why are you asking this question?

Because rereading it, that feels potentially like scum doing something opportunistic, in a way that you want town members to rip into each other.

Some players indeed may rip into each other. And I don't see anything wrong with that, as long as we agree to turn it into a productive direction and ultimately have five players agree on a single player they want out.



Let me just say that I could have just chosen to tunnel myself with my vote on Val89. Instead, I chose to try to organise townies to make an informed and reasonable push, from a narrowed list of players, that a majority can agree on.

StrangeMatter wrote:I'm still going to read into them [...].

Thank you.

In post 920, catboi wrote:

In post 919, frogsfrogs wrote:This is the clearest that greeting has been about reads all game and I still don't trust it.

why's that?

I'm seeing greeting echo implosion's reads on you ("catboi's put in too much effort to be scum" is what made him start to townread you today) and on strangematter ("they're fence sitting"), but he uses the opportunity to scumlean strange. I don't think him not having seen this from implosion but arriving at the same ideas is impossible, but I don't believe it and don't like his "it isn't literally word for word!" response either. Not really addressing the issue: that copying off of implosion's homework would be something scum is interested in / fall back to doing, the posts are similar as to be basically word for word, and I don't think he's expanded on the thoughts beyond what implo said.
Again, I think his Implosion section is weak. His examples in the first part are fine and I've not actually been able to articulate my implosion townread better than he does here :'') but when he tries to explain why implosion is only moderate town to him, he's citing implo's "carefulness" that it's supposedly too late in the day for? Implosion hasn't claimed to or seemed to be pushing for a nolim and I don't know why scum , if Val was at e-1. Seems like nonsensical logic, at best totally based on being poisoned on val and at worst trying to call being careful with our lim here a scum thing to do, like he wants us to have rushed into something.

Even though he's my sus too, I think his MafMen read is kind of a straw grasp tbh. "His reads and reason for voting me were simplistic" but the cited post is by design an elaboration-less sort list and a non-explanation on why he finds greeting sus. Feels like taking something out of context, ask follow up questions if you're concerned about no explanation.

My section is, again, something you and Igor have already said, but he adds more of his own here by way of questioning. 1. I voted catboi instead of you because, as you can see in the list you link, I considered him more scummy than you. He was also the one being questioned and pushed at the time. 2. Val said it and was making arguments for the same PoE just before the post you cite, but it was already there in my reads list from the start of the day, so I don't think the "repeated from Val" characterization is very accurate. "Why" is a lot to answer but, generally, I'm strong in my townreads elsewhere, don't think StrangeMatter should be the vote today because we've had people speculate PR on them, and have found you three to be the least convincingly town. I've explained more in the past. 3. I've been trusting Val for a while now because I townread him so strongly on d1. I understand if you're abrased by him but. He asked me to put a vote on him to try and make sure we had a lim / to examine behavior, I didn't think anyone else would actually vote him after I did, or that someone doing unexpectedly would say a lot. I obliged him. Speaking of.

UNVOTE:

In post 931, implosion wrote:I can probably do MafMen. I'm like, especially susceptible to confirmation bias this game for whatever reason and so me thinking his recent stuff from like a few days ago was townish combined with catboi meta-casing him as town was enough that I kind of ignored him. But under the theory that the last few days would be especially difficult for scum to effectively bluff their way through, he is a player who, well, was absent and wouldn't have had to do that.

StrangeMatter, I don't think Greeting is copying my reads, the point of reads is that if they're sensible people should be able to come to their own conclusions... and besides, the way I'm reading Greeting has little to do with Greeting's own reads.

I’m back.

So, what is the way you’re reading Greeting right now? I also don’t get how you don’t see that as a little odd it’s very similar? I get mindmelding is a real thing, but they use the exact same concept of fencesitty and that I haven’t voted (though, votes can dictate pressure but pressure isn’t always voting, and I just want to pressure people. It also doesn’t mean that someone doesn’t want to vote someone out either).

The way I'm reading Greeting is a combination of the selfvote and the play around it, the way/timing he was pushing igor having not that much utility for scum, and his presence today as things have been in turmoil. But honestly the selfvote is the biggest piece of it.

So what's the case on MafMen?



As I had mentioned before, in 890 and and 917, I don't like their posting . Not because I'm some kind of English language pedantic. As a matter of fact, English is not my native language. But in my experience in this site, I've encountered two other players who had a similar posting style and were scums. That posting style is grammatically liberal, without clear usage of sentences, something which I interpret as showing off a laid-back attitude. Therefore, I consider this a scumlean by association. Definitely not something that I'd wholly base a case on, but in combination with other factors, this might tip the scales.

Another thing about them that I think is really weird is their change of heart with regard to me. In posts like 288, 294, 296, 312 I am bad town. Now their assessment of me is scummy.



I made many posts he's scumreading here way before MafMen even voiced the slightest suspicion about me. Why the sudden change of heart? The explanation that comes to my mind is that at this point of the game a Greeting wagon is definitely not viable and sitting on it is a comfy place to be. I mean, after all, Greeting is sus and has been suspected throughout the game so being on there can be justified. And it's a pretty easy way to avoid getting implicated with a misvote. This theory is supported by the fact that they did not join the Thyhinth wagon (368), nor any wagon actually. Mafia like to keep their hands clean and that is what might have happened.

Post 859 is nonsensical - first the assessment is that me voting igorsprite at the time is scummy, then when I unvote it's also scummy? If anything, this post makes MafMen look like a clown.



The content of their posts seems really genuine. MafMen clearly doesn't hold back what he thinks and that is generally a sign of a townie.

He has been absolutely correct with the assessment of the game - in posts like 152, 162, 163, 265, 288. A scum wouldn't really have any reason to make such posts - seems to me like a lot of effort to get townread.

I kind of disagree with you, catboi, on his assessment of me v. Val in 730. It was an annoying and tedious argument and, although really unlikely, could have been a mafia tactic. Although obviously he's wrong on this, I think this judgement can be justified. He confirmed this in 929.

_______________

To be fair, this hasn't been helpful at all. I'm still neutral and conflicted when it comes to this slot. It is, however, around 15 hours until deadline, so if others agree on this wagon and not on anyone from the other three (Val89, StrangeMatter, frogsfrogs) then I'll join it.

VOTE: MafMen

I still think a lim today is better than no lim. If this doesn't coalesce in time I'm open to moving elsewhere but the idea of a MafMen wagon gives me a lot less angst over there being no way in hell it flips scum compared to val or catboi or greeting, at least. I'm open to others in theory (frogs or maybe strangematter, idk) as well but I think this is an acceptable direction for the game to go in, provided Val gets over himself and plays. I guess if this flips town he'll be forced to tomorrow anyway.

Alright, that’ll be E-2 then. VOTE: MafMen

uuuugh this game