https://forum.mafiascum-staging.net/
No, he's town here. As F-16 linked. Nacho reads him as scum and is wrong. Meanwhile, he's wandering around there with no clue and using his percentage points gimmick, just like here. And like I said, I would expect scum being run up to know who the next most viable lynch is without detouring onto JS.In post 949, RachMarie wrote:Umm Toomai was scum in that game if you see similar posting here how does that make it town here instead of scum?
The bolded was extensively discussed by Nacho, ffery, and me earlier. Why no comment then?In post 950, penguin_alien wrote:No, he's town here. As F-16 linked. Nacho reads him as scum and is wrong. Meanwhile,In post 949, RachMarie wrote:Umm Toomai was scum in that game if you see similar posting here how does that make it town here instead of scum?he's wandering around there with no clue and using his percentage points gimmick, just like here.And like I said, I would expect scum being run up to know who the next most viable lynch is without detouring onto JS.
15 posts and a game where he replaced in during the final 10 pages. I'm not sure how that's going to compare to a game where he's scum from the start. It's definitely different from his other games. Less moving the vote around, but at that point in a game there aren't as many places to move a vote and it looked like town had pretty firm ideas about where they were going next mostly, and as scum the options probably seem more limited than they really are. Interesting to see that he did keep at least the semblance of his processes in that game.In post 941, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:Okay, I'd like to hear Nacho's and ffery's take on it before we make a final decision. Toomai not voting Penguin who is the only counterwagon is puzzling me as well.
My preliminary thoughts on this are that the level of certainty he exhibited in his scum game is much higher than what he did in his town games. In his town games, there were times when he just felt lost and didn't know what to do. In his scum game, I don't see that tendency. He casts a vote on the L-2 wagon immediately upon replacing in. He seems sure of what he wants and where to place his votes. He has a "scummy" read, a "scummish" read, and a null read in his initial catchup with the rest of them being null town or town to some degree. It certainly looks like someone who is image-conscious in that he needs to provide scumreads, nullreads, and townreads. In this game I see none of it. He doesn't seem to give a crap about who is a "scumread" and who is a "townread." His list contains all nulls and he seems a lot more lost and uninformed.
Nacho, I find your certainty about Toomai flipping scum very troubling. In this game, you were sure that Toomai was scum and were wrong. Yet, here you show not the slightest hesitation in saying that he is scum. If I strongly ead someone as scum when they were town, I think I would be a bit more wary about scumreading them immediately in the next game and wonder how much of it is a playstyle issue and how much they naturally play scummily.
I want to hear what ffery thinks as well but I am don't feel good about lynching Toomai based on my meta-read.
I am going to reread through Amrun's case and note his interactions with Stubbs. She makes a lot of good points about his in-game behavior which undermine my meta-read but I'd like to go over each point in detail so we know we are making the right decision.
What resemblance are you seeing?In post 954, RachMarie wrote:I can definitely see a resemblance tween that scum game and here.
In post 528, Toomai wrote:Righto, D1 votes.
Columns named by event that started them; last column shows final votes, not vote changes. Random votes counted. unvotes noted. Wagon positions noted.
Player Game start StubbsKVM claim (257) JW claim (306) LnGrrrR claim (409) Final vote Syryana LnGrrrR (2), JW (3), StubbsKVM (3) JW (4) MSG (1), Marquis(4)penguin_alien Amrun (1), Marquis(1),, StubbsKVM (6)unvoteJW (2) StubbsKVM (3) StubbsKVM (2) fferyllt StubbsKVM (4) JW (6) [no vote] JasonWazza Amrun (3) Amrun (1) StubbsKVM Amrun LnGrrrR (1) LnGrrrR (1) LnGrrrR RM (1), Marquis(2)JW (5) StubbsKVM (1), ,unvoteMarquis(6)LnGrrrR (1), Marquis(3), JW (2)MSG Amrun (3), unvoteStubbsKVM (1) F-16_Fighting_Falcon JW (1), StubbsKVM (5) JW (2) StubbsKVM (2), ,unvoteMarquis(7)RachMarie LnGrrrR (3), , JW (2)unvoteJW (1) Amrun (2), LnGrrrR (3), StubbsKVM (1) LnGrrrR (2)
dead,conf-town,self-conf-town
What I see when I look at this:
- Three people (JW, Stubbs, and RM) never changed their votes throughout the day. JW claims he scumread Amrun, but still needs to explain why. Stubbs confirmed his vote once throughout the day with 242; RM kinda did with 264.
- fferyllt is the only person to not vote for Squilly/Marquis at some point, aside from JW.
- Something's bugging me about how Syryana's votes on the two claiming wagons and the lynching wagon are all in about the same place (midpoint/just before midpoint).
That was one very specific meta note. Aside from that he had posted two one-liner reads ("Rach is scum", "Feg is probably scum") with no promise of explanation.In post 527, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:How so? Marquis had at that point provided reads and explained her read on Rach in 222.Toomai wrote:That was my point. I felt Marquis had done less than promise reads.In post 523, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:271 where he says Jason has been more helpful doesn't sit right either. Jason had not done anything up until that point other than promise reads.
So, you are still saying Toomai and Penguin are scum?In post 962, fferyllt wrote:15 posts and a game where he replaced in during the final 10 pages. I'm not sure how that's going to compare to a game where he's scum from the start. It's definitely different from his other games. Less moving the vote around, but at that point in a game there aren't as many places to move a vote and it looked like town had pretty firm ideas about where they were going next mostly, and as scum the options probably seem more limited than they really are. Interesting to see that he did keep at least the semblance of his processes in that game.
It's shaken my read up. I'm working through the other reasons for thinking he's scum to see what that case looks like sans meta component.In post 966, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:So, you are still saying Toomai and Penguin are scum?In post 962, fferyllt wrote:15 posts and a game where he replaced in during the final 10 pages. I'm not sure how that's going to compare to a game where he's scum from the start. It's definitely different from his other games. Less moving the vote around, but at that point in a game there aren't as many places to move a vote and it looked like town had pretty firm ideas about where they were going next mostly, and as scum the options probably seem more limited than they really are. Interesting to see that he did keep at least the semblance of his processes in that game.
Those of you that are dumb fucks and are disbanding the fucking wagon, read the bolded.In post 971, Nexus wrote:
With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch. Deadline is at 10pm BST Sunday 6th October 2013.That's in uh...13 hours.