Mafiascum.net

In post 945, Infinity 324 wrote:PEdit 3: Creature is and always has always been my top townread, already explained that.

The dude that intentionally lied and misrepresented facts is your biggest town read is more proof you can't possibly be town.

Nobody puts an untrustworthy person as their top read. A person who acts scummy as shit and does a complete 180 and somehow magically sees a breadcrumb THAT NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED

I get you can't admit you are scum but you can just turn tail and run. Or maybe replace out and hope your replacement can save you.

In post 949, Infinity 324 wrote:3rd scummiest and lean town.

I have a shitton of town reads.

Bullshit

In a game that typically has 3 scum, number 3 is what?

STILL FUCKING SCUM

Poe alone says #3 scummiest has to be a scum read

Impossible to be any sort of town read

Jesus christ you can't possibly be saying I'm scum for thinking creature is town. We've gone over this before, he misremembered something that it would've made no sense to lie about as scum, and he made a 180 that basically made sense given the situation, eggman's crumb made no sense given the situation. 180s aren't even very scummy to begin with.

Petroleum is only slight lean town for play, I didn't take into account PoE at all.

I get my reads have been weird, but instead of asking me to clarify you brought up all the parts that weren't completely clear at once and then called me scum for them. This play is not helping town at all.

Don't see this push coming from scum, but holy crap you aren't helping.

No you are scum because you got got changing your reads around in a manner that makes no sense.

You got caught saying someone you lean town on is your 3rd scummiest read in a game WHEN THERE IS PROBABLY 3 SCUM

Which would make it mathematically impossible for him to be 3rd scummiest and be town

I stated my read on petroleum based on what I have seen from that slot so far. What I saw was a good catchup post, which had a small chance of being written beforehand, and that overall read null slightly leaning town to me. It's nothing more than that.

Yes, petroleum may have a higher chance than that to be scum, but since we don't have a flip yet and I have yet to interact with some slots, I don't see a real purpose in calling the read scummy just by PoE. I'm not trying to call the scumteam yet.

Bye Felicia go sell your story to some other sucker

To condense my Robbnva vote into a few points that are not just snippets of notes:

Robbnva is immediately dismissive of suspicions on himself (starting as early as Post #18 where he rolls his eyes at Dwlee99 for placing a serious vote on him). For example:

In post 32, Robbnva wrote:Since I'm not scum not have I done anything remotely scummy it would be just plain stupid to vote me but hey whatever floats your boat

In post 487, Robbnva wrote:Lol how did i go from null to scumlean?

In post 669, Robbnva wrote:I haven't done anything townie yet?

Calling out a weird 180 and doing research to catch a player in a lie isn't townie?

In post 671, Robbnva wrote:Dude my posts scream town. Saying I haven't made any townie posts is like saying Jeremy Lin is the best player to
Ever play in the nba.

In post 847, Robbnva wrote:There is literally no way you can read my posts and think I could be scum right now.

In post 936, Robbnva wrote:Yeah I'm calling foul.

1. I didn't do anything scummy

There are a few more 'subtle' ones (such as pointing out how he has looked into games other than this one, pointing out how he has questioned ha[lf] of the player list, indicating how engaged he is, etc.). Of course, all of this rather contradicts the following gems:

In post 710, Robbnva wrote:I'm not worried about how my actions are perceived.

In post 430, Robbnva wrote:I'm genuinely worried that at this point he doesn't have more reads. Tbh I have posted enough I should be more than a null for anyone. People should be able to tell if they think I'm townish or scummish. the fact that anyone is null reading me still is worrisome. As for not having anything AI in my posts, I find that quite amusing. I fee there's plenty I've said that can lead people to determine my alignment.

Robbnva fairly concerned about how his actions are perceived, or else he would not immediately jump in to dismiss people who find him suspicious. And apparently, everybody should have an opinion on Robbnva, but the only possible opinion conceivable is that Robbnva is Town.

~

For somebody with 135 games under his belt he has been prone to seemingly not understand very basic things. Off the top of my head:

-> He seems to consistently not understand how Creature can use process of elimination to narrow down players into a suspect pool. (This is done by putting everybody think is Town in the Town pool, and then everybody on that list goes in the Scum pool).

-> He very badly attempts to direct investigations:

In post 610, Robbnva wrote:Fuck it

vote: crab

Somebody please investigate creature. Clearing that slot would make me sleep better

And he has attempted to direct investigations a second time as well in Post #848.

This is basic mafia theory. In fact, I had a post about this over ten years ago that is still applicable. For somebody claiming to have played in 135 prior games, this is fairly egregious.

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I do not like Robbnva's assessment and push of Eggman's lynch for a few reasons.

First, he attacks Creature's unvote of Eggman as being "weird." It should be evident that removing a player from L-1 is prudent play for any player with doubts about the lynch, but this goes unaddressed.

Second, he fails to consider Eggman's relative newness to the game when assessing Eggman's claim / "crumb":

In post 345, Robbnva wrote:If anything VTs should try and give off a vibe they are a pr rather they are a vt

Essentially he tries to hold Eggman to the standards of an experienced player, and then using Eggman's failure to meet those standards as evidence of Eggman being scum.

Third, he puts Eggman back at L-1. When he moves his vote, it is while attempting to connect Creature to Eggman (as Smithereens hypothesized). His efforts thereafter go towards lynching Creature. While he go to lengths to effectively state he was not trying to set up lynches (i.e., "lynch Creature today, lynch Eggman tomorrow"), I get that impression from his vote switch.

[Note: Smithereens has very similar offenses when it comes to Eggman / Creature].

~

Stopping there. Will try to write up another post or two about other things. It's past midnight and I'm getting tired.

Responses first. Trying to respond to Robbnva's Post #847 and Post #848 feels unwieldy and going line-by-line would likely be confusing. I will just make a few comments.

-> Robbnva, you seem to be going out of your way to show how 'helpful' and 'engaged' you are, hence my issue with the wording of some of your posts. In fact, you made fun of Dwlee99 for "trying so hard" to look Town ("ladhst") while doing the same yourself. Your reaction to his serious vote on you was "I'm not scum but... you're on my watch list." You then were apparently so engaged by page 4 of the game that you had to "calm down." You were so engaged and posting-on-the-fly that upon discovering you "missed" Creature's case on Smithereens, instead of simply reading it you said that you'll "read it later." What I don't like here is that you were actively and constantly posting; you could have just and gone back and read it instead of explaining you were going to do it. I just see "look how engaged I am!"

-> I am not defending atm487, but I attacking the way in which you dealt with atm487. He is a new player, and your language while speaking to him was rather insulting. You go so far as to state that he could not be seriously suspicious of you or else he should have mentioned his feelings .

First, that's not how this game works. People very much keep opinions to themselves for multiple reasons. And newer players in particular can be nervous about attacking players (especially vocal / abrasive ones).

Second, atm487 mention his suspicion of you (see, e.g., Post #100).

Third, while insulting him, you also claimed to have never voted for atm487. Except you atm487 was your first non-serious vote (see Post #107), you voted him (without explanation) directly after he expressed suspicion of you.

-> Berating somebody for asking for prods is bad; asking for prods is .

-> Claiming that you will ignore players is also bad.

-> I am unsure of Eggman because I have trouble reading newer players. I would not consider attempting to crumb a vanilla townie, for example. And I do not know how I could put myself into a "newbie mentality" any more. While I do not think his play was , I have a hard time deciding if it is .

-> I can pressure who I want in the order I wish. Your criticism that I should be pressuring Dragon of the West or Smithereens over yourself are noted.

atm487,

-> Why did you use the language that you "know for a fact" Creature is Town?
-> Could you please rephrase your Eggman vote? Do you have anything to add to this vote now?
-> Why do you seem so eager for an Eggman lynch? (See Post #405 and Post #573)? And further, do you agree that there is an "objectively sound case" on Creature?

I realize you are likely on vacation.

Dragon of the West, could you please summarize the contents of your Neighborhood discussion with Robbnva? Please avoid direct quotes.

Smithereens, to make it formal:

-> What were the "faulty assumptions" you made about Creature early in the game?
-> Why did you propose a "trade" of Robbnva helping you lynch Creature today in an exchange for a crazycrabman lynch tomorrow? Do you make a habit of trying to order lynches?
-> Why did you attempt to pressure Creature into putting Eggman to L-1?

crazycrabman, why were Robbnva and Creature knocked down in your updated 'chart' to a scumlean?

Relatedly, could you please elaborate on these posts:

In post 602, crazycrabman wrote:I believe that Creature and some lurker is scum. I believe creature is scum because his attitude fits that of scum and his posting style. This is a result of a flawed strategy so take it with a grain of salt. I know you are going to say t re-read the game with a different mindset but anything different besides the one I have used and am using right now would be lying to myself.

In post 630, crazycrabman wrote:Also, many things changed between creature's early game and now. Early on he acted like he did in my first game with him, where he was town. Now he is acting a lot different, a bit like atm in that first game. I did like his posting style before, but not now.

~

Sleep now.

a) Faulty assumption was that Creature had town read the first post some players had made in the game. This wasn't true.
b) Trading of services such as reciprocal bandwagoning with another player who I think is town is fair play, since it helps me get my lynch through and helps them get theirs.
c) It was quite apparent that Creature was trying to alleviate pressure on Eggman, which made me want to lynch him even more.

Petroleum, it's a fair point against Rob, however I think the correct interpretation is emotional involvement. If you read your case with that presumption in mind, it suddenly stops being scum AI.

In post 950, Robbnva wrote:A person who acts scummy as shit and does a complete 180 and somehow magically sees a breadcrumb THAT NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED

Yeah, because town should always let their townreads get lynched.

In post 963, Creature wrote:

In post 950, Robbnva wrote:A person who acts scummy as shit and does a complete 180 and somehow magically sees a breadcrumb THAT NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED

Yeah, because town should always let their townreads get lynched.

How does "protecting a townread" explain a blatant lie?

Catching up, making a long post, the usual.

In post 964, F-oh-ex wrote:

In post 963, Creature wrote:

In post 950, Robbnva wrote:A person who acts scummy as shit and does a complete 180 and somehow magically sees a breadcrumb THAT NEVER FUCKING HAPPENED

Yeah, because town should always let their townreads get lynched.

How does "protecting a townread" explain a blatant lie?

Isn't it obvious my intention wasn't to lie, but rather say what I think?

@petroleum: Do you think some of the point again robb could be explained by a very different playstyle as opposed to him being scum? Cause I'm not really seeing the scum motivation for his actions

About the Creature "lie" - even if creature was somehow confirmed scum it still probably wasn't a lie. There is no scum motivation in lying about something where you can so easily be caught.

I am thinking Robbnva is town, but that'd be funny if he won as scum by being emotional.

I don't see robb fake catching me in what he thinks is a scumslip, that's just too much even for an experienced player.

Creature what are your thoughts on derek?

Yeah I don't see more votes in infinity. Why not? He's caught scum.

Open your eyes people

I don't think it's a scumslip.

Shocker you wouldn't.

In post 959, petroleumjelly wrote:What I don't like here is that you were actively and constantly posting; you could have just and gone back and read it instead of explaining you were going to do it. I just see "look how engaged I am!"

When I read cases I like to be focused. I play on my phone and I'm mobile a lot. I can't sit and read a case at a red light or when I'm walking through a store

In post 959, petroleumjelly wrote:Third, while insulting him, you also claimed to have never voted for atm487. Except you atm487 was your first non-serious vote

I corrected myself later and admitted my mistake.

In post 959, petroleumjelly wrote:Berating somebody for asking for prods is bad; asking for prods is good.

Asking for prods when it's long overdue is a good thing. An hour last 48 ours is annoying and imo an attempt to look town by being proactive.