Mafiascum.net

I... don't understand the motivation to join a quicklynch wagon on someone you thought was town, and if you didn't agree a PL was necessary.

I guess that's what's holding me up. It's not just that HS thought TF was probably town, but the way they interacted with the wagon shows they didn't agree a PL was necessary.

In post 937, Road Kamelot wrote:

In post 843, MortFeld wrote:

In post 839, Human Sequencer wrote:A policy lynch is a lynch on policy instead of player read, isn't it?

Yes, none of what I'm saying is disputing that Creeps is a policy lynch. Let me lay out what I'm saying:

-According to you, you pushed lynching Creeps as an alternative to lynching TF because you thought a policy lynch was inevitable and Creeps was more likely to be scum.
-This would be the town motivation for the push - there are numerous plausible scum motivations. If both sides are equally plausible the push was NAI.
-Your stated town motivation makes absolutely no sense. Even if a policy lynch was inevitable, it was a policy lynch

of TF

. Introducing Creeps as an alternative does nothing about the TF policy lynch; it's a completely different discussion. You're not explaining this part. How does saying 'Policy lynch Creeps instead!' convince people not to PL TF?
-Granted, even if this is explained, there are a number of other issues with the play. Also, the scum case makes way more sense than the town still. Creeps had softclaimed (though you claim to not have noticed and I kind of believe you?), Creeps is nowhere near a reasonable PL in my mind (he's new and bad, but he's not ruining the game. There are 3 scum), and you then voted TF 'once a policy lynch became inevitable.' Huh? You thought TF was town. Why would you ever vote a townie? And your vote took it to L-2, I'd hardly call L-3 inevitable but L-2 is getting there.

This sums up why I think your part in the PL wagon was scummy.

Pedit: yeah I'm curious about anyone's reasoning for strongly TRing LUV at this point.

You asked why this makes HS look town

For one its completely understandable to mix up a few things. namely that an alternative policy lynch somehow cancels out the first
This sort of illogical thinking is towny bc theres no scum motivation
UNLESS you made the case that HS was sort of losing footing and needed to explain himself offhand and made a mistake in doing so, but i dont see that happening and i dont think you see it either
So putting that aside, what does scum HS gain from proposing a different policy lynch? And something like making a mistake in assuming a policy lynch is inevitable or not, thats not scummy thats just a mistake. Theres no attempt at subterfuge, manipulation, coasting, etc. theres just doing what he thinks is correct and making some errors

plus his claim post was super town

Except there was motivation there for him to advocate that we should policy lynch Creeps because Creeps had soft claimed earlier. As Toto pointed out, HS looked like he was getting intimidated after the soft claims and since he assumed TF was claiming vigilante, I don't see why he wouldn't naturally try to shift the focus to Creeps since if I recall correctly, there was no little to no hints as to what power role Creeps may or may not have.

In post 939, Human Sequencer wrote:You could say the same about literally anybody else on the TF policy lynch wagon. I was vocally against it and tried to come up with a better solution, shouldn't that clear me relative to the others?

In post 945, Human Sequencer wrote:BTW anybody scumreading Mort is just wrong at this point.
Unless my radar is waaay fucking off

Who said anyone was SR Mort?

In post 949, Human Sequencer wrote:I voted TF because he was the dominant wagon at the time, and I didn't see it changing anytime soon. 'PL is inevitable' was my vote on creeps, 'TF lynch is inevitable' was my vote on TF.

In post 631, Human Sequencer wrote:If push comes to shove I suppose I'll join along, but it really is a last resort for me. Creeps, TB and Misa's slot are all much better options in my eyes.

I didn't just make it up, I did signpost that I'd join if TF's wagon didn't stop gaining steam.

You're kind of admitting that you just go with the flow and that's a terrible mindset to have. The thing is I don't think you went with the flow because you didn't know what to do but because you were afraid to rub anyone the wrong way.

In post 951, MortFeld wrote:I guess that's what's holding me up. It's not just that HS thought TF was probably town, but the way they interacted with the wagon shows they didn't agree a PL was necessary.

These are my thoughts exactly. When it was going down it read like he only jumped on because he didn't want to be SR for not being on the wagon.

: Could you fix the quote in 952

In post 947, MortFeld wrote:I'm wondering if you've actually read my posts on HS. I'm not pushing them purely because they saw TF as green and eventually voted TF. Even in that respect, your votes differ. Yours was based in a sentiment you had been expressing for most of the game and was actually a PL. HS' reasoning was that HS saw a PL as inevitable. HS' vote is worse because they originally opposed the PL.

Actually, I might be wrong. Correct me please if you've already explained this, but why did you eventually vote TF, HS?

Yeah... I don't have too much of an issue with the rest of your push.. im just kinda nick picking and probing around for holes in peoples stories as I'm struggling to decide if these pushes are all TvT... it just seems bad to me that all these pushes would be a TvT... So.. I'm kinda looking for some traction..

Naomi. Thoughts on Chaos please.

guys... I was doing some research as I thought that all the current trains was Green.. I was looking over the vote counts for data and I found something that I found rather worrying with mort (I wasn't planning this)

Okay... So... Mort has been on every major lynch wagon of the game and has never had any vote down time once it went up... This says to me that they are Red! they have never questioned enough to unvote and freeze in limbo and its been a long while. (EDIT: Okay so while reading though some stuff generating this post he HAS has vote downtime just not enough to register to a vote count)
Here is a list (not all votes shown just the ones where he was on leading wagons 3 or more votes)

64 [3] MisaTange - ChaosOmega, Mortfeld, Creeps20
94 [L-2] Creeps20 - TwoFace, copper223, Human Sequencer, MisaTange, Mortfeld,
422 [3] ThinkBig - copper223, Mortfeld, Human Sequencer,
584 [L-3] MisaTange - ChaosOmega, Toto, Mortfeld, Creeps20,
825 [3] Human Sequencer - Toto, Mortfeld, Drone,

These lists are taken from when the first vote count he joined a wagon not at their height. But yeah Its rather worrying to me that he has been on every train bar tf. The tf train he kinda chainsawed too. If you examine TF and Mort they also support each other a bunch as well so.. I'm starting to think that they are both red. there is a definite connection here at least..

other things that are kinda weird are things like in this post; 719 Where he unvotes misa as they was getting replaced.. now given his hard stance aganist policy lynching that must mean he either was reading Misa!Red or they was red! and post unvote and replace his stance changed abnormally fast. 779 Here we can see his read list and it portrays that without Rocky (misa's replacement) doing any work at all they went from being there vote (aka top pick) to there 4th pick and one of those people who over took them was AFK idle!

This shows to me that Mort is probably red with his buddy being TF so for now... VOTE: MortFeld

In post 958, TwoFace wrote:Naomi. Thoughts on Chaos please.

they don't post much or very often they could be lurking scum but there not really pushing at all on anyone. think its more likely there just dishearten with the current field of play and like me for the past 10 pages or so didn't care for either train.

There's no tf/mort connection.

In post 961, TwoFace wrote:There's no tf/mort connection.

none that I quoted. But If you read the interactions between you two when the pressure started to turn up there is a correlation but correlation isn't causation. Which is why I'm not really focused on yourself..

I need one more day of rest then I'll be good to go.

Weird vote.

In post 959, Naomi-Tan wrote: Okay... So... Mort has been on every major lynch wagon of the game and has never had any vote down time once it went up... This says to me that they are Red! they have never questioned enough to unvote and freeze in limbo and its been a long while. (EDIT: Okay so while reading though some stuff generating this post he HAS has vote downtime just not enough to register to a vote count)

Why is this Red? Like, why is it Red! motivated to be on wagons? Also, I question all the time. At the moment I'm still questioning my vote on HS.

In post 959, Naomi-Tan wrote: 64 [3] MisaTange - ChaosOmega, Mortfeld, Creeps20
94 [L-2] Creeps20 - TwoFace, copper223, Human Sequencer, MisaTange, Mortfeld,
422 [3] ThinkBig - copper223, Mortfeld, Human Sequencer,
584 [L-3] MisaTange - ChaosOmega, Toto, Mortfeld, Creeps20,
825 [3] Human Sequencer - Toto, Mortfeld, Drone,

These lists are taken from when the first vote count he joined a wagon not at their height. But yeah Its rather worrying to me that he has been on every train bar tf. The tf train he kinda chainsawed too.

I'm like, headscratching on this. Are you just looking at vote counts and noticing my name isn't first on the list? I'm not bandwagoning and if you ISO me that should be obvious.

In post 959, Naomi-Tan wrote: other things that are kinda weird are things like in this post; 719 Where he unvotes misa as they was getting replaced.. now given his hard stance aganist policy lynching that must mean he either was reading Misa!Red or they was red! and post unvote and replace his stance changed abnormally fast. 779 Here we can see his read list and it portrays that without Rocky (misa's replacement) doing any work at all they went from being there vote (aka top pick) to there 4th pick and one of those people who over took them was AFK idle!VOTE: MortFeld

What? I have no hard stance against policy lynching. I'm also confused - I was reading Misa!Red, then I unvoted pending a replacement, so my vote could accomplish more. Why is the Misa slot being 5th (not 4th) on my reads list inconsistent? I started looking at HS after the Misa unvote, i.e. a lot has happened in these 200 posts.

I was thinking about my play yesterday - I do admit I have a lot of recency bias. So if something happens/I notice something more recently, I'll unconsciously catalogue it as more heavily indicative of Red! alignment. This might have a little to do with what you see as primacy issues in my reads list, but I still don't see anything inconsistent.

Road/Misa wasn't afk when I posted that list btw, that list was in response to Road asking for a tl;dr.

Also, any connection you see with TF is odd because I don't read them Green! and I don't know their alignment.

In post 966, MortFeld wrote:Also, any connection you see with TF is odd because I don't read them Green! and I don't know their alignment.

Why not? I'm like most obvious green in the game

In post 967, TwoFace wrote:

In post 966, MortFeld wrote:Also, any connection you see with TF is odd because I don't read them Green! and I don't know their alignment.

Why not? I'm like most obvious green in the game

Is this just megalomania or are you reasoning this?

Dunn and massive are alts? Wonder who their mains are. I've played with both before and never knew that. btw grapes we've played together before.

Damn wrong game. Ignore that

In post 968, MortFeld wrote:

In post 967, TwoFace wrote:

In post 966, MortFeld wrote:Also, any connection you see with TF is odd because I don't read them Green! and I don't know their alignment.

Why not? I'm like most obvious green in the game

Is this just megalomania or are you reasoning this?

Idk what megalomania means but yeah based on my play I should be obv town to everyone.

Actually, ISOing you your reads do align with mine. So I do Green! read you. I'm pretty much fine with the connection to TF, if he flips Red! it means I was utterly wrong in all of my reads and I should pack up and get better at the game.

With that in mind I have pretty good PoE after a flip.

Something weird about Naomi - she's only voted me and TF the whole game. TF was a PL, the votes on me were both bad IMO but that could be OMGUS? When someone has only voted a Green! read of mine and a confirmed Green! twice, it's a little suspicious.

Starting to sour on HS. For a contrafact of an R Kelly song - my mind is telling me yes, but my body, my body is telling me no.

In post 944, Human Sequencer wrote:Toto, you've clearly learned a whole lot since our last game, whereas I've gotten overconfident and sloppy. Either that or the shift in your player meta indicates scum, but I'm apprehensive about that because you're reading somewhat town to me.
Addressing post 922.
In this post I wasn't rolefishing. I was moreso thinking about how if everybody townreads Copper, he's essentially confirmed town, which is bad to the mafia. Therefore, that makes him a good target to kill (confirmed townies are bad for mafia), and if he by chance happened to be a PR, then we lose something very valuable. I don't think it proves knowledge that's applicable to this game.

Well to me even discussing whether Copper is a PR or not is a form of role-fishing. The point is that here is that this is much more subtle and more defensive of town.

I'd also like to here from Chaos about other examples but I read the Mafia PT in that game and he was actually talking about that there so I don't think he is lying.