TM 2021: A normal roguelike

[Augustus Caesar]

Since people hadn't liked your catchup and no one had towny feelings, I predict you think you'd still die with an investigative claim for example. Hence the n1 vig just to buy a night

[Summer Nights]

the point though is that you have perhaps the most like... stally, convenient claim you could have tho

maybe it is really bad luck for you but i really just dont think thats the case, my gut went 'nope'

zzz i hate alts

[Datisi]

The summer/Datisi part of peta's case is partly meta based, that doesn't really away me. Datisi do you know how summer regards your town/ scum games? Is the paranoia warranted?

They haven't been around since I repped in so I don't have a decent read there..... But if they're the elim over me I'm not that against it.

the paranoia is warranted but the way that paranoia was expressed didn't read honest to me.

there is Stuff bothering me here but it's 1am and i'm supposed to be revising but i keep refreshing this game and not doing work. i'll take a break for an hour or two from this.

[Augustus Caesar]

I listened to your music and I think you should rename yourself to Winter Solstice, Summer. I have a zebra-read on your vibes right now

Here's something to PUMP you up:

[Augustus Caesar]

Also, I think RCE would probably be a bit more outraged or have more FIGHT in him if town here. He seems too "yeah I guess this can't be helped" for my liking

[RCEnigma]

I'm not super thrilled with my return to forum mafia as a whole. Repping into a dead on arrival slot isn't super fun either. The only coherent argument to defend against based on my play was deasvail's but it was basically, scum would rep in and do things that town would do so you're scum.

Super condensed but yeah, caught me red handed giving readable content.

[RCEnigma]

Defending myself against someone else's meta is not worth the fight or going to get me anywhere and I honestly don't think that's on me.

[petapan]

so i wanted to say, having recently participated in two mini normals that the current setup design meta of normal games trends towards setups that are quite townsided, however, both those games were won by scum, in part because town made faulty assumptions about setup balance due to lack of knowledge and made unoptimal plays. i don't know how often people here play normals but i think it's worth laying out these expectations so people know what to do and can hopefully avoid the pitfalls others have fallen into.

basically, in any normal game, you're looking at least 4, but typically5 town PRs, guaranteed. now, for team mafia, the expectation is that every town player having 3 other people who can read the game with them tilts things townsided, and so town power is weakened to compensate. last year's TM mini normal had 4 town PRs, none of which were especially strong. this is somewhat complicated by what we know about this year's setup: the mafia have both multitaskin and knowledge of every PR in the setup, both of which are incredibly powerful. i think on that basis alone i'd guess 5 town PRs, 4 only if all of the town roles are fairly strong. this is info worth keeping in mind, because i think in general towns should be mass claiming day 2 or 3 and trying to narrow things down from there. if there's only 5 pr claims we should be eliminatingin VT claims and letting kills and potential night actions resolve most of the PRs. in general, don't get stupid and yeet PRs based on bad setup spec arguments. this is going to be tricky this game because, like i mentioned, scum are informed and can therefore craft the best sounding fakeclaim possible that doesn't conflict with other roles, but i think that's why it's good to have things outed early. any fakeclaim has to explain things further down the line.


RCE's roleclaim is a fairly weak one, but it's also one that becomes confirmed town if he gets a shot off alongside the mafia kill. that's why i'm not particularly gung ho about voting it out. i fully admit the point datisi makes about the way he acted about being run up is a bit incongruous with the claim is a good one, but i'm not so tunneled that i want to take a mechanically unoptimal play. ultimately, if he is scum, he can't produce an extra kill, will either have to shoot in the poe and claim another town role stopped the mafia kill (possible with informed) or claim he was blocked, and either way is going to be suspect tomorrow anyway and we can just vote him then. but the upshot if he is town is either scum waste their shot on him rather than someone else, or we get a clear town, and i am okay with those outcomes

[petapan]

i had that typed up a long time back, didn't post, hectic being gung ho about killing him makes me hesitate, kinda wanna go big balls

setup spec thoughts are still true regardless of how we play day 1 but on a miss i think claims should be held off til day 3

i'll run RCE's claim by the hivemind altho they obv have no idea about setup balance

[petapan]

tbh I kinda had Summer Nights as scum, but I'm kinda iffy considering she is the counterwagon to a very scummy claim.

the 'counterwagon' is being pushed by two of the peole who were voting RCE, though, so what do you make of that?

[Creature]

tbh I kinda had Summer Nights as scum, but I'm kinda iffy considering she is the counterwagon to a very scummy claim.

the 'counterwagon' is being pushed by two of the peole who were voting RCE, though, so what do you make of that?

This feels a lot "scum decided to give their partner one extra day"

[petapan]

lol

[xRECKONERx]

i really don't know how to think ab balance in this setup since scum know the full setup or whatever.

but...n1 vig seems like a VERY wild claim to fake bc it's very easily disproven and if there aren't two kills tomorrow then byebye RCE?

im wrinkling my brain trying to figure out if scum would ever claim n1 vig and i guess im at "if there's a real n1 vig in the game and scum are trying to bait out a 1v1" or something but even in that case the real n1 vig would just VIG THE FAKECLAIM so i am fine letting RCE prove it.


summer's reaction to getting wagoned is not good so i am fine here

VOTE: Summer

[The Bulge]

I'm not gonna go through all the effort of fully catching up or rejigging my reads if there is an impending flip. but i agree with hectic/datisi here about the claim. granted i was extremely wrong about not believing the Day 4 IC claim in a recent mini normal so I am feeling very paranoid about taking that stance but eh I don't like it.

[The Bulge]

also @peta/datisi, ive seen your most recent responses to me. looking over my iso this game there's a lot I don't feel good about anymore but idk

[Creature]

but...n1 vig seems like a VERY wild claim to fake bc it's very easily disproven and if there aren't two kills tomorrow then byebye RCE?

Scum doesn't need to claim something they can fake, just something that makes them live at least one more night. Scum has little to lose claiming something that will get them caught the next day but a lot to lose getting lynched the day before and townclearing a bunch of players the next day.

[xRECKONERx]

oh yeah from talking w/ agar today:

- He thinks we should be yeeting RCE anyway bc N1 vig is a bad claim, I'm more willing to give him a pass to see what shakes out.
- Datisi/DV are top townreads for him
- Ari threw weird shade at slots like xof and Sirius and then ghosted. Ari never got back to me after my post ~400 posts ago or whatev, and just disengaged and avoided me, threw his hands up about RCE/beeboy, engaged me on the readslist (but not the post from earlier). "I would vig Reck" is a weird claim, it's like he's doing exactly what he accused me of doing earlier and tunneling on one read that he can latch onto in lieu of engaging with the rest of the game
- peta is being cagey. Doesn't understand why peta called out beeboy slot for meta but then voted elsewhere. Doesn't like 562 bc it feels like a dash of self meta being used as a reason not to give out reads that can be tested and tracked.
- Creature is null/unimpressive, not much to say here; says if RCE turns out to be town then 591 is a Creature post that feels like TMI/prepping for a misyeet
- Hectic is brainmelding with AGar a lot, +town points for that

[Datisi]

i feel like i'm gonna regret this. whoever is not yet voting, get onto a wagon.

VOTE: summer

if we do flip summer today, tomorrow i am not buying any story about a roleblocker or a rolestopper or a jailkeeper or whatever the fuck.

also it's 2:30am and i'm still not done and i just wanna sleep.

[xRECKONERx]

but...n1 vig seems like a VERY wild claim to fake bc it's very easily disproven and if there aren't two kills tomorrow then byebye RCE?

Scum doesn't need to claim something they can fake, just something that makes them live at least one more night. Scum has little to lose claiming something that will get them caught the next day but a lot to lose getting lynched the day before and townclearing a bunch of players the next day.

i mean that's a good point, i guess, but my question is why not just... claim something that won't get caught the next day then? like why wouldn't scum just claim something uncheckable here or unprovable, or fuck, claim "n3 vig" or something that buys even MORE time?? it's the immediacy of the "n1" part of the claim that makes me think it has to be town

[Datisi]

also @peta/datisi, ive seen your most recent responses to me. looking over my iso this game there's a lot I don't feel good about anymore but idk

i'm not sure what this means.

[Creature]

but my question is why not just... claim something that won't get caught the next day then?

Claiming something iffy won't help you not get lynched. Sometimes it is a lot better to just claim something that will get you caught the next day but guarantee surviving today than risk getting lynched today anyway.

[Creature]

It's also not even that much provable because RCE can easily claim to be roleblocked or something and then we're back to day 1 with likely two less town players.

[petapan]

i really don't know how to think ab balance in this setup since scum know the full setup or whatever.

but...n1 vig seems like a VERY wild claim to fake bc it's very easily disproven and if there aren't two kills tomorrow then byebye RCE?

im wrinkling my brain trying to figure out if scum would ever claim n1 vig and i guess im at "if there's a real n1 vig in the game and scum are trying to bait out a 1v1" or something but even in that case the real n1 vig would just VIG THE FAKECLAIM so i am fine letting RCE prove it.


summer's reaction to getting wagoned is not good so i am fine here

VOTE: Summer

kinda weird to be following my wagon if you still suspect me?

[The Bulge]

also @peta/datisi, ive seen your most recent responses to me. looking over my iso this game there's a lot I don't feel good about anymore but idk

i'm not sure what this means.

I looked and thought to respond earlier this afternoon, but I wasnt feeling good about my push or just where my head was at in retrospect, so couldnt really say much that I really felt. I'm not gonna just leave them hanging but once I'm better re-established here I'll try to put a nice little ribbon on them for you.

[xRECKONERx]

i don't think this close to deadline i'm going to get a viable flashwagon going or have time to give the due diligence needed to sort you, peta. not to mention while i have a gut rumbling about you that something is off, it's mostly my team yelling that you're sketchy/scummy.

i'm not really "following" you i'm reacting to the reaction from summer, which feels scummy regardless of me or my team's thoughts about you

if i thought people would have the appetite to flashwagon ari i'd do it but summer has support and we need a yeet before deadline