Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:31 am
Not ignoring your posts, they keep pinging meIn post 948, Nachomamma8 wrote:Trust me, I can tell.In post 946, Infinity 324 wrote:Honestly I'm not too interested in sorting L&G at this point
This is what tunneling looks like. You're not giving my posts or my points a fair shake because you think that I am scum. You are ignoring what I am doing because you think that I am scum.
In post 15, Venus Fly Trap wrote:if we just do this early on and he's town and we flip him we just let scum jettison their weakest player, and if he's scum and we flip him we just lose our strongest player
(and honestly in most universes depending on who the scumteam is that's like ... my slot or yours)
so like
I like Skitter's opening vote on me. I think I'd be an odd target for her to go after initially (and as scum I think she might be hesitant in pushing against the clique early), and not voting me immediately looks like a genuine thought process unfolding as in she pointed out something she disliked then decided to ramp it up to a vote after processing it.In post 17, Venus Fly Trap wrote:i mean true, but nacho's post had this 'ugh might as well just do it and get it over with' vibe which i think would just exacerbate/compound that problem, esp. given we're talking abt not mafia
actually i'm gonna vote VOTE: nacho
kismet have i played with u before?
~ skitter
Lilith's perspective here seemed like a genuine one. For me, this adds a bit of depth to skitter's initial push on me.In post 101, Venus Fly Trap wrote:tbh I'm kind of thinking scum!nacho is getting his buddy NM out of the way so that he can direct a nightkill onto a townie of his choice rather than only being able to kill a miselim-able townie during the day.
- lilith
This post was in reaction to my initial notscience push.In post 127, Venus Fly Trap wrote:I actually think notsci has a halfway decent scumgame. At leasy the last one i played with him i was townreading him for a fair amt of it
Kismet i have two more guesses for you
Also nacho's last post was, uh, not very good
I agree with the infinity townreads too btw
Pedit interesting
~ skit
Skitter, is there a reason you were townreading mena other than him getting frustrated at NM policy lynch not falling through?In post 192, Venus Fly Trap wrote:Its probably like infinity > kismet > mena > notci if i had to rank it
And I don't like this in particular when it should have been clear that I wasn't only interested in lynching NM.In post 284, Venus Fly Trap wrote:re: opinion on Nacho, like I said I don’t understand how someone comes to the conclusion that NM is the most valuable elim we can make D1. I don’t buy that this is a genuine town thought process from nacho. I think it’s more likely that nacho is trying to sacrifice a buddy to an elim so that he gets to direct an NK than scum!nacho trying to miselim the LHF town!NM so that he can sacrifice someone on his team who is presumably more valuable to his team than NM is to town. why ever go after such LHF like that when you have to sacrifice a partner for it? ergo, scumbuddies.
I'd like to hear more about this. Why did it feel floppy? What are your reads on both? How does this affect your reads on them?In post 285, Venus Fly Trap wrote:The infinity / leafeon interaction on like page 6 also felt really floppy
this is likely the extent of my contribution to the thread for the day.
@salsa hope you feel better
- lilith
Liked the tone here.In post 298, Venus Fly Trap wrote:you're literally ignoring me, so you can stop pretending that you're trying to read me whatsoever. "waiting on Lilith to give town pings" okay well how exactly are you doing that if you're not even reading my posts, and in particular the parts of those posts that are addressed to you?
I liked this approach to salsa. Salsa is one of those who if town scum will almost certainly need to mislynch to win the game so I like making that path harder here.In post 333, Venus Fly Trap wrote:huh she actually has a wider range than i would have guessed, with decent tone + activity
but she's kinda trending towards short declaritive statements/questions and not as much like 'in the moment trying to sort out what she's thinking' if that makes sense. she's almost more definitive/assertive in this scumgame than in the towngame i saw her in.
i was kinda liking her before and still think beeboy's take is kinda bad and like the opposite from how she ought to be read but i'm not as confident as i was before
~ skitter
Don't love this. I understand skitter's reasons for disliking us individually but there's no good reason there has to be one scum between in that if Cakez is getting suspicion when I flip town then I'll be more frustrated than I am now which is hard to imagine.In post 479, Venus Fly Trap wrote:Also what i saw of nacho's response to cakez felt bad. Nacho your tone is like just super super super off and that whole convo with cakez felt really weird on both ends, but you especially felt stilted/unnatural. There's something fucky going on in that pair. I'd bet good money on at least one scum, if not both. If i had to pick just one i'd say nacho tho cuz sircakez did have a few ok posts last night
I understand why you would be bothered by me in the way that you are. I kind of expected that we'd clash when playing together as town, so it's no surprise that we're clashing here. The tone piece is something that is unusual for me full stop, and I do believe that it is a mistake to go "your emotions are weird and I don't understand them, you are scum" basically 100% of the time which is what I feel is happening wrt people having problems with the way that I approached Cakez this game.In post 545, Venus Fly Trap wrote:well, i mean, maybe don't have bad tone? i'm not really sure the problem is with me when two different people said the same thing now
I like Skitter's general play around trying to sort mena and multiple attempts to pull mena into the thread.In post 559, Venus Fly Trap wrote:i wish me and mena were posting at the same time so that i can sort him
~ skitter
Liked this post a lot as I said before.In post 648, Venus Fly Trap wrote:yeah I think I agreeIn post 642, The Bulge wrote:that whole exchange feels like a good example of the "pointless garbage" point i mentioned before. I have a hard time believing town in infinity's shoes would care at all about that line of questioning, and then to have that exchange flip her read from scum to town is wild to me
sorry I didn't mean to spout pointless garbage ._. I was just feeling FOMO for the exciting conversation about NM and wanted to give my two cents but it was like a million pages too late
real talk though, the majority of my reads are formed based on how well I can see and understand the other person's view, preferably that person's read on me, because I can pick apart what does make sense (I guess this is @ nacho too for "why is this read such a sticking point" etc etc). I don't mean to come off as like, self-centered but it's way easier to parse people's reads on me and why they are reasonable or unreasonable as town progressions. if I'm having a hard time following and understanding Nacho's reasons for his initial push of NM, his read on our slot, the kind of "agenda" that he's presenting to people for why he acts in certain ways, then I think he's way more likely to be scum based on my own experiences.
This is just silly though and while it might have worked with Murdercat in the past this is something that will frequently let you down.In post 814, Venus Fly Trap wrote:b) like i have a general vibe of what your towngame is supposed to be and true it's not firsthand but how you're interacting with sircakez here is not really fitting that paradigm.
This is... unfair. The only reasons that your reads or bork's reads or notsci's reads don't look incredibly opportunistic is because they include me at the top. I do think that town has done a good job of finding each other this game and I think that scum has done a poor job worming their way in. This would make sense if you thought one of my townreads was wrong, but as far as I'm aware, you do not.In post 822, Venus Fly Trap wrote:following the general popular ones and everyone bad and below are gonna be easier pushes than the people at the top
I'm trying to capitalize on our friendship to get him to listen to me after I die.In post 848, Venus Fly Trap wrote:i'm gonna be honest i don't *think* nacho is trying to tilt you via ate but i think he may be trying to capitalize on your friendship (which i'm assuming you have to some extent from how you're talking? idk maybe i misread that bit) or at the very least on how you view his towngame and past shared games to get you to back off him via the whole 'let's do what we should have done in popcorn mafia and will you commit to sheeping my reads after i flip' thing
(and i already mentioned why i think that's bad in that he doesn't really have any reads strong enuf that would be worth sheeping like that just now anyways)
pedit yeah i already called out this his reads suddenly look like everyone else's >.>
~ skitter
This game I don't feel it's necessary, but I was feeling nice and melodramatic when I posted it, so...In post 2117, Nachomamma8 wrote:These are my four names. If your post doesn't say "yes, I will follow those in order until one flips town", you shouldn't be posting. Give teammates time to catch up, you've chosen your lynch for the day.In post 2096, Nachomamma8 wrote:My personal death list is:
Sotty ---> Kagami ---> GreyICE ---> Zar.
Are you going to follow those names when I flip town, Grey?
And I am surprised you don't understand where I'm coming from here, at all.In post 814, Venus Fly Trap wrote:ok soooo you're basically telling me that you're so pissed off at sircakez for something that happened two months ago that you insta-scumread him and are aggressive abt it in a way that doesn't match anything he actually did here, in this game. and that that's a more likely explanation than you just deciding he was an easy place to push here and thus doing so - at a time in the game where iirc several other people were suspicious of him as well
i feel like you said the opposite in 118In post 953, Nachomamma8 wrote:I like Skitter's opening vote on me
Letting scum that you caught early and having a wrong sr and failing to re-evaluate are both different sides of the same coin - just means that you are prioritizing the wrong information.In post 952, Infinity 324 wrote:I could get into my "how do I know how confident to be" thing but basically, it's more common that I have a correct early scumread but drop the read than I have a wrong SR and don't re-evaluate.
I did not.In post 956, Kismet wrote:i feel like you said the opposite in 118In post 953, Nachomamma8 wrote:I like Skitter's opening vote on me
did i say that? it stuck out at me as inconsistent w/ your previous positionsIn post 959, Nachomamma8 wrote:That's all you got out of that wall?
you didn't say it, but i don't think it's an unfair assumption to make whenever i post a wall and someone reacts to exactly one thing.In post 960, Kismet wrote:did i say that? it stuck out at me as inconsistent w/ your previous positionsIn post 959, Nachomamma8 wrote:That's all you got out of that wall?
i'm rereading vft and disaster.In post 957, Kismet wrote:also i basically don't know what you're even doing right now
i already agree that vft is town.In post 961, Nachomamma8 wrote:you didn't say it, but i don't think it's an unfair assumption to make whenever i post a wall and someone reacts to exactly one thing.
eh i retract this. there's some mixed stuff in there.In post 966, Kismet wrote:but again you lambasted me for having them in the top tier of reads along ns last night and then you come out with this basically glowing endorsement and i just don't know what to think other than this is just the WIFOM olympics at this point for later
You're not the first person to say this but it's not correct.In post 963, Infinity 324 wrote:you tried to push VFT and it didn't take.
I think that Mena's early policy push on NM is as alignment-neutral as it gets. If he tried hard to do it in a recent game and someone else tries to do it here he's basically obligated to do it again. His frustration seems genuine, but I think that frustration would exist regardless of his alignment here as a sort of emotional residue from last game.In post 161, Disaster Cartel wrote:Probably bc I slept like an hour and a half from 11 until after midnight and have spent most of the night losing in teamfight tactics
Also because I literally, like actually literally had to have this argument in JK9++, let it go, we got shitwagoned for the trouble and then NM was scum all along
Do u see why this is frustrating to have to run through again? Im not getting why the setup is so different that it’s not worth it
-Mena
Seems like a strange callout from the perspective of "I want to work with skitter and skitter seems to be clearing someone too early for me". Mena later argues that this is a setup where scum are encouraged to townread each other but Mena wasn't scumreading skitter at this point and didn't really have a read or any input whatsoever on Kismet so doesn't really make sense from a town perspective.In post 198, Disaster Cartel wrote:I wasn’t pissed at you I was just a bit frustrated that EVERYONE was shooting it down
bc I have no baseline or any idea of who it is and that inherently makes me slightly +sus unless it’s hectic (which it apparently isn’t)
I’m not SRing them, I just feel uneasy with the slot
-Mena
Mena, why did you vote L&G here?
Don't love this post. Progression of this was "I don't really have a townread on Kismet but I'm not townreading him either" to pushing him and kicking him to lean scum here.In post 447, Disaster Cartel wrote:Seems hella convenient that you’re sussing me when I’m like the only one who hasn’t been happy to rubberstamp you as town, kismet!
-Mena
Why were you leaning town on her in your readslist then?In post 467, Disaster Cartel wrote:Skitt herself is like... I normally townbin her D1 but I’m not doing so here because of the weird ratio. I feel like she’s not particularly playing to an agenda, although her defending NM has been twigging me slightly as has her lack of paranoia on me and early town
Before #508 when Disaster asked why he was so low in my reads, the main thing he engaged with is the NM policy lynch, the L&G read, Kismet scumread, Notsci townread. I also engaged with NM policy lynch, the L&G read, the notsci townread, but I was townreading Kismet, I was pushing Cakez and VFT whereas Mena didn't have a lot to say about them. So yes we were on similar trajectories but I don't understand why Mena thought I should've been townreading him here as town but as scum can definitely see him trying to get a possible mislynch to townread him.In post 528, Disaster Cartel wrote:My not thinking it makes sense that I should be townread in general =/= I don’t think nacho shouldn’t be townreading me more and find it kinda weird he isn’t given that I’ve been on a similar trajectory to him but also, importantly, have gotten there on some things before him (like voting leafy). Given that I can’t just be sheeping him bc of that, I find it weird that someone who’s coming to the game from a v similar viewpoint in many ways, he doesn’t see as town
One thing that makes me doubt DC scum is the fact that they started out with the NM push then moved to L&G and then sort of drifts back to NM scum... If they are scum then there are posts like ^this^ which lends me to think that they are taking a pretty bus heavy approach.In post 598, Disaster Cartel wrote:this is a very succinct version of my thoughts on nacho so far!! i didnt like how he was trying to like... pointfarm nm and i know nacho was saying like "if nm flips scum" etc etc but it felt like so far that nacho almost... knows nm will flip scum? there's confidence in how he posts about it and like, this plan is basically to try and farm up some towncred and then reaping the rewards after knowing that it'll probably be easy to do this? i dont think nm ever obvtowns in a game so it makes this more believable/easy to execute?In post 101, Venus Fly Trap wrote:tbh I'm kind of thinking scum!nacho is getting his buddy NM out of the way so that he can direct a nightkill onto a townie of his choice rather than only being able to kill a miselim-able townie during the day.
- lilith
I agree that beeboy's take there is good but I don't think calling someone town for being annoyed is something that's particularly difficult to do as scum.In post 683, Disaster Cartel wrote:i should be asleep but i skimmed, and i actually like 523/524, i feel like... that sort of read on infinity’s psyche is ablot harder to fake as scum than it is to talk about the contents of the reads themselves. at least i don’t think i would go down that path?
to be honest i wanted to be lazy and read beeboy off of activity because i was in that dance game he mentioned too and saw his inaction in action :>
- ydra
I don't really understand why you're scumreading me here. I first of all don't understand why you think that I was confident that Not_Mafia would flip scum (I don't think I gave that impression like at all?), and I understand disliking the policy push for NM thing but that's already been hashed out in thread multiple times. Do you not have an opinion on the rest of my play?In post 827, Disaster Cartel wrote:i have some thoughts about nacho mainly moreso than lg because lg gave me like... one good thing from them but i am also in a tft game right now so they'll come after
You were.