I'm not happy with a hammer right now because Dunn still hasn't posted Luke. Y'know, one of the two people I'm considering. I don't have enough to sort Dunn yet
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 8:45 pm
by Hopkirk
Killing motivation as a strategy doesn't make sense and is somewhat insulting. You can get a hammer without me, and scum want quick votes without a chance to rethink.
Being universally townread means I need to get my thoughts out/my full rereads before I die, because I'm likely to die.
Are you sure you understand why people are TRing me? It feels like you went along with it but don't.
Marci doesn't feel right.
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 8:46 pm
by Hopkirk
Vanders-dunn/luke-marci-GL is my order currently without having fully reread Luke and without being happy with Dunn's contributions
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 8:48 pm
by Hopkirk
Dunn's current posting is what scum who's accepted the loss but doesn't want to outright concede would be making. What do you think of Dunn's D2 Luke?
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 9:05 pm
by Lukewarm
In case anyone missed that hopkirk is single handedly holding up the entire thread, which I very much think is killing motivation for this game (at least I know it is for me)
Spoiler:
In post 756, Hopkirk wrote:i'll reread today. if i don't then free to call me 'Hopdork' or equally mean names.
In post 907, Hopkirk wrote:so uh, i said i'd do stuff today but then i kind of played a few marathon games instead because it's pretty rare. fortunately i have no plans tomorrow so i will read all of the stuff i said i would
i didn't fully get the Marcy case from what i skimmed to date (not the isos, just recent posts since i last posted properly)
In post 950, Hopkirk wrote:I'm not happy with a hammer right now because Dunn still hasn't posted Luke. Y'know, one of the two people I'm considering. I don't have enough to sort Dunn yet
He has been consistently and repeatedly telling us that he is going to to get back to us at a later date, and then we have all been waiting on him.
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 9:05 pm
by Lukewarm
In post 954, Lukewarm wrote:In case anyone missed that hopkirk is single handedly holding up the entire thread, which I very much think is killing motivation for this game (at least I know it is for me)
Spoiler:
In post 756, Hopkirk wrote:i'll reread today. if i don't then free to call me 'Hopdork' or equally mean names.
In post 907, Hopkirk wrote:so uh, i said i'd do stuff today but then i kind of played a few marathon games instead because it's pretty rare. fortunately i have no plans tomorrow so i will read all of the stuff i said i would
i didn't fully get the Marcy case from what i skimmed to date (not the isos, just recent posts since i last posted properly)
In post 950, Hopkirk wrote:I'm not happy with a hammer right now because Dunn still hasn't posted Luke. Y'know, one of the two people I'm considering. I don't have enough to sort Dunn yet
He has been consistently and repeatedly telling us that he is going to to get back to us at a later date, and then we have all been waiting on him.
And again, he has been much more active on site... just not this game
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 9:10 pm
by Hopkirk
I got back to everyone yesterday.
I was doing a lot of stuff earlier in the day, want to dispute that?
Me posting elsewhere isn't suspicious at all if you paid any attention to context, and we can't discuss that without discussing ongoing games.
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 9:18 pm
by Lukewarm
Honestly, no other wagon feels right.
I have pushed back on GL's Vanders read, so feel free to look at that
I think I have actually ended up with a town lean on GL at this point
I agree with GL on Dunn here
In post 883, GuiltyLion wrote:Like if Dunn is scum, you have to believe he didn't try to gain any towncred from scumreading/distancing/pushing Bingle, nor did he try especially hard to protect him, and you have to believe he's happy to give flippant low-effort posts in thread even when most players are casting suspicion his way. It's possible but it just doesn't feel like The One True Answer to me.
I ended up voting Marci, who was a tr before, just because I poe'ed my way there.
And you know what, I still think Bingle is pretty good at this game, so looking back, I think that there is a question of "what was Bingle doing day 1" well, the result of his Day 1 was you getting an unbelievable amount of town cred. I think I would rather lean into that possibility over any one of the other people's who wagons feel wrong.
I don't know how useful a 1 v 1 back and forth will be, so I think I am heading to bed. Very interested in what everyone else thinks
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 9:29 pm
by Hopkirk
D1 was him trying to exile me. If you thought it was convincing enough that you and your TR Dunn went along with it then don't try arguing it wasn't likely to go through.
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 9:32 pm
by Hopkirk
If it's Dunn then of course Bingle wasn't trying to make Dunn look good on a bingle scumflip. Dunn!scum was pushing me with bingle and they aren't intending a bingle flip. Not looking good in response to a scum partner flipping scum while they were pushing against the flip... I can see why that could be scum pretty clearly
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 9:47 pm
by Lukewarm
In post 959, Hopkirk wrote:If it's Dunn then of course Bingle wasn't trying to make Dunn look good on a bingle scumflip. Dunn!scum was pushing me with bingle and they aren't intending a bingle flip. Not looking good in response to a scum partner flipping scum while they were pushing against the flip... I can see why that could be scum pretty clearly
Noted. Will move him above Marci in my vote list now
Hopkirk -> Dunn -> hopefully I am not alive at Elo
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 10:08 pm
by Lukewarm
In post 958, Hopkirk wrote:D1 was him trying to exile me. If you thought it was convincing enough that you and your TR Dunn went along with it then don't try arguing it wasn't likely to go through.
Is this a slip? Because I am pretty sure that you spent 90% of this game saying that his push on you was a shit push, but now it was supposedly good enough to go through?
I know I fell for it because I was being White Knighted, but honestly, the point isn't if I thought it was going to go thought anyways. The point is, did Bingle think it was going to go through. And based on your reaction, I don't think that he or you thought it would
Spoiler: Hopkirk making it clear he did not think it was a convincing push
In post 302, Hopkirk wrote:trying to draw my attention away from looking for scum with a shitpush?
In post 581, Hopkirk wrote:i'm not giving Bingle the benefit of the doubt here because from what i've heard about him he
should
be too good to tunnel on something as stupid...i don't really buy him being this bad?
Sarah- so like... scum don't shitpush this hard in practice so you're wrong on Bingle!scum
In post 626, Hopkirk wrote:i'm probably overthinking things and the openwolf is just a wolf
And in the neighborhood "the fact that everything bingle said about me was stupid is what should have made you reconsider before Marci pointed it out to you"
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 10:08 pm
by Lukewarm
And remember,
@everyone
, bingle did not start making this push until after he got Not_Mafia and Norwee to start suspecting him.
In post 184, NorwegianboyEE wrote:By the way, one of the reasons i thought Bingle might be town is something i realized he didn't believe in the hood after all so i'm not really trusting Bingle over N_M anymore.
In post 958, Hopkirk wrote:D1 was him trying to exile me. If you thought it was convincing enough that you and your TR Dunn went along with it then don't try arguing it wasn't likely to go through.
Is this a slip? Because I am pretty sure that you spent 90% of this game saying that his push on you was a shit push, but now it was supposedly good enough to go through?
It was a shit push. You bought it though. If Dunn is town then he did too. A shit push doesn't mean a push that will never actually work with the scumteam hard pushing it, it means a push that's founded on shitty reasons
I know I fell for it because I was being White Knighted, but honestly, the point isn't if I thought it was going to go thought anyways. The point is, did Bingle think it was going to go through. And based on your reaction, I don't think that he or you thought it would
Spoiler: Hopkirk making it clear he did not think it was a convincing push
In post 302, Hopkirk wrote:trying to draw my attention away from looking for scum with a shitpush?
In post 581, Hopkirk wrote:i'm not giving Bingle the benefit of the doubt here because from what i've heard about him he
should
be too good to tunnel on something as stupid...i don't really buy him being this bad?
Sarah- so like... scum don't shitpush this hard in practice so you're wrong on Bingle!scum
In post 626, Hopkirk wrote:i'm probably overthinking things and the openwolf is just a wolf
And in the neighborhood "the fact that everything bingle said about me was stupid is what should have made you reconsider before Marci pointed it out to you"
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 10:19 pm
by Lukewarm
I think there are two ways to look at Day 1. Bingle either absolutely shat the bed OR he was in fact openwolfing / making a shit push on purpose.
I would like to remind everyone that this is Bingle's second time in this set up, and in the first game, scum lost Day 1 by having the 6p mafia get voted. So coming at the game with a strategy designed to specifically stop that seems likely.
So, if you think Bingle just shat the bed, then I guess this arguement fall flat here, but if you think that Bingle did it on purpose, what did his partner gain from it? What player in the 6p thread interacted with Bingle / Bingle's push / Bingle's wagon in a way that would help set them up for a win.
Dunn? - If Bingle had a plan, Dunn did not capitalize on it
GL? - He did not either, I mean Not_Mafia walked into Day 2 with GL as his #1 choice
Marci? - Does she seem like she is following a plan right now? Do you think Marci would want to endgame for her entire team?
Vanders? - When I read though his ISO, I struggle to find anything to pull my read on him out of null to be honest? Does that should like it was following a plan?
Or Hopkirk? The person who got cleared by the entire thread because of how Bingle played?
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 10:32 pm
by Hopkirk
Bingle clearly wanted me exiled. It almost worked too.
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 10:34 pm
by Lukewarm
In post 963, Hopkirk wrote:It was a shit push. You bought it though. If Dunn is town then he did too. A shit push doesn't mean a push that will never actually work with the scumteam hard pushing it, it means a push that's founded on shitty reasons
My point is that you/Bingle did not think it would go through.
quoting you from the neighborhood again to highlight that:
"the fact that everything bingle said about me was stupid is what should have made you reconsider"
I am pretty sure that the majority of the thread hated Bingle's push
In post 477, Bingle wrote:I'll hammer Scamp if he hits E-1 on the premise we turbolim Hop then Norwee after.
Reminder of how extremely scummy this post is and an memorabilia to the day Bingle got caught as a wolf.
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 10:35 pm
by Hopkirk
Dunn/Vanders>Luke/Marci>GL actually
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 10:43 pm
by Lukewarm
Good night
Posted: Sat May 29, 2021 11:40 pm
by Lukewarm
@Everyone, If you only read 1 post from me from tonight, please read this one
my read/push on hopkirk originally started from frustration at the game state, and was not 100% serious. I was not having fun in this game, and asked myself "What could change that" and just started posting.
But by post 957 I have become 100% serious. (and the anit-motivation part of the push can be ignored tbh)
I do not think Bingle actually wanted Hopkirk to be eliminated Day 1.
I think that this post was designed to ensure that his push on Hopkirk never went through
In post 477, Bingle wrote:I'll hammer Scamp if he hits E-1 on the premise we turbolim Hop then Norwee after.
I think that everyones reaction to that post sells that idea (especially Norwee's)
In post 477, Bingle wrote:I'll hammer Scamp if he hits E-1 on the premise we turbolim Hop then Norwee after.
Would you agree to a vote on you given the same premise?
Yes.
Okay. Here is what I am thinking. Bingle is (from what I can tell from other games) an extremely good scum hunter. Like multiple people in other games looking at his scum reads like they are gospel. And here, he is either scum, or he is 100% convinced he has found the scum.
I am no longer willing to consider any vote outside of [Norwee, Hopkirk, Bingle], and if we vote Bingle and he is town, then we immediately follow through on his Hopkirk read.
That post from Bingle effectively convinced everyone to be down for Bingle to die day 1, and I think he made it because he did not actually want the Hopkirk wagon to go through (if you are wondering why he had to die there, see me and Dunn both independently pushing for Hopkirk to be eliminated Day 1 in addition to his own shitpush).
I think that this is why no wagon has felt right this game, and why no one seems to have really capitalized on building towncred on a Bingle bus the way you would have expected from his partner.
----
I also think that hopkirk was not expecting the turn around here. His counter argument that Bingle's case was convincing enough that I should not try to argue that it wasn't likely to go through (post 958) I think betrays that. I think he stated "this is what we want you to think about mine and bingles interactions from day 1" instead of what he genuinely things, because the claim in 958 is fairly incompatible to how he has described Bingle's push every other time up to now. Every other time, it was basically saying that "that everything bingle said about me was stupid" and basically no one (well, me, I) should have ever fallen for it... until saying that it could have gone through could be used as a defense.
@Dunn, look back at your scum read on Hopkirk Day 1. Do the things you found suspicious still seem suspicious to you if you are reexamining him now?
In post 922, Hopkirk wrote:Robert said they TR bugs several times but did nothing to argue against the wagon is a negative point
they don't interact with or mention Flow whatsoever (pretty common for new scum to just ignore partners)
Robert says he has a SR but doesn't try and push anyone or vote even while a TR is being voted off (allegedly a stronger TR?)
the vote on Mo feels omgusey in retrospect
^ reading through the Robert iso with the knowledge it's scum that's what sticks out as sus
You convinced me
VOTE: Robert
This is not a player in this game so not accepting this vote.
In post 955, Lukewarm wrote: He has been consistently and repeatedly telling us that he is going to to get back to us at a later date, and then we have all been waiting on him.
And again, he has been much more active on site... just not this game
where i play usually with meuh, people hate on anyone for pushing someone based on their online status / if they've posted recently. there could be many reasons on why hes doing it, not always scummy intentions.
i dont really think hes scum, the way hes been replying doesnt feel like it to me.
In post 969, Lukewarm wrote:I think that this post was designed to ensure that his push on Hopkirk never went through
(thinking emoji here)
i like ur points sis, but i dont agree with a hopkirk sus
In post 973, marcistar wrote:where i play usually with meuh, people hate on anyone for pushing someone based on their online status / if they've posted recently. there could be many reasons on why hes doing it, not always scummy intentions.
i dont really think hes scum, the way hes been replying doesnt feel like it to me.
In post 969, Lukewarm wrote:my read/push on hopkirk originally started from frustration at the game state, and was not 100% serious. I was not having fun in this game, and asked myself "What could change that" and just started posting.
But by post 957 I have become 100% serious. (and the anit-motivation part of the push can be ignored tbh)
We can ignore all of that. Not really a part of my serious time push. My actual, 100% serious push, is that Bingle never really wanted his push on Hopkirk to go through. It was a fake push designed to fail, so that everyone would townbin hopkirk (which everyone did).
That is why no other wagon feel right and why no one else seemed to really capitalize on a Bingle bus.
