In post 948, alstroemerial wrote:Is it customary that the thread locks without warning once the mod is ready, in other words, should I just post what I have as I have it rather than risking taking the time to make one long post?
just say what u gotta say it won't do nothing imo
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:43 pm
by GrandpaMo
alstro pls carry tmr . i belive in alstro and t3
yk what since t3 cant claim masons wit me can u claim wit me pls
"Claim Mason with me! Claim Mason with me! No, YOU claim Mason with me!"
um isnt it obvious that i really dont care
cant i not meme
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:04 pm
by alstroemerial
Votes on VFP
Spoiler: Recap of the Two VFP Wagons
80: Zyla votes VFP for the no elim defense debacle, but relatively quickly moves to Grandpa in 118; Grandpa was her other hero solve member but didn't really provide a reason
Rapid Wagon One: 355: Zyla switches back from Grandpa to VFP, though the post is mostly about Val and Grandpa. The reason is short but multipronged:
They've posted almost nothing substantial this entire game, said they were going to vote someone at 317 and never followed through, and from reading a random sample of 3 of their town ISOs, I don't think it's just playstyle.
368: Here's my vote, switched over from my initial vote on James. It was mostly just to put pressure on someone suspicious besides James, since the conversation there was stalling and I was dissatisfied with VFP's lack of content at the time. 377: Cook hops on about half an hour with no explanation at all. Prior vote was an RVS on the first page, so this is Cook's first serious vote. 382: T3 votes in hopes that pressure will "actually make VFP play the game", which to be fair is basically the reason I voted as well.
And with that we get from nothing to H-1 in about 2 hours and one page.
Disintegration of Wagon One: 395: T3 almost immediately hops off the wagon (five minutes later) once he realizes that he put VFP at H-1. He mentions in 384 that he didn't even really SR VFP but just wanted to make VFP post. 440: I switch my vote over to Cook because I freaked over how fast we got to H-1 and the quiet jump from Cook TR VFP to jumping on the wagon. 531: Cook switches vote to Grandpa. No posts were made between justifying the vote on VFP with one extra post (380) and this one. Because I was paranoid and foolish, I unvoted Cook 30-ish posts later which I really regret while writing this post.
Now we are back with only Zyla voting for VFP.
I should note that between Wagon One and Wagon Two, VFP switched from No Lim to making the firm case against Grandpa, with the vote in 585.
Rapid Wagon Two: 850: NEE gets the ball rolling with no explicit reason, presumably in reaction to the conflict between VFP and Grandpa (?) 851: Literally within two minutes, Cook joins in. Given the formatting in Cook's post, I honestly believe Cook was working on this post before NEE's posted, but still, this does kind of look like Cook being opportunistic three for three here. I think this third one is a bit of a fluke though because of the incredibly close timing. 888: Grandpa votes for VFP in a climactic moment of their argument 889: VFP accidentally self-hammers by posting nearly simultaneously with Grandpa.
I should also note that Zyla attempts to look like she is voting but stopped in a pedit because Val demonstrated that her original vote from 355 is still there in 873.
To summarize the order of events:
Wagon 1: Zyla, Alstro, Cook, T3
Getting Off Wagon 1: T3, Alstro, Cook (Zyla on the whole time)
Wagon 2: NEE, Cook, Grandpa, VFP (ouch)
I'm inclined to think VFP is town based on the way these last few pages have played out, and to me that makes Cook look pretty bad when you read over how the wagon developed. And we'd likely still want to go for Grandpa at that point. I'd be leaning some combination {Cook, Grandpa, NEE}. It's weird because I have in my notes that they SR each other early in the game, but I'm trying to get this post out quick for now.
If VFP flips scum, then of course the situation is very different. I don't think Cook would just be tossing a vote on like that especially at points where it wasn't like, "oh it's inevitable guess I gotta bus to look good later". In that case, I'd want to actually take a closer look at James, who was heavily discussed earlier but has fallen out of focus, in large part due to discussions centering around VFP and Grandpa.
I'm now running low on thoughts for today. I'm ready to see a flip and get things moving.
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:10 pm
by VFP
In post 955, alstroemerial wrote:VFP accidentally self-hammers by posting nearly simultaneously with Grandpa.
about it. Bar some super improbable game shattering event, We lim Grandpa tomorrow 100%. No point town!VFP 'trading' if we let the scum his trade catches walk free.
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:19 pm
by VFP
I'm just going to say, Grampa.
If your only play as scum is to use AtE, it just feels a bit disgusting to me.
AtE to me is something that should be boarder line outside influence when used like this, but that's just my opinion.
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:21 pm
by VFP
Done get me wrong, using it to act naive or surprised isn't an issue. Even to occasionally act frustrated like town would be...
But if its your only go to and used 50+ times in a single game day, there's something very wrong.
You meant to type you are both "town" here and slipped, just like in you did in your last scum game, didn't you??
i always refer to town as third person. im doing it this game too lol ur point is?
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:26 pm
by GrandpaMo
hence why i didnt think i slipped in post game lol
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:26 pm
by GrandpaMo
In post 959, VFP wrote:I'm just going to say, Grampa.
If your only play as scum is to use AtE, it just feels a bit disgusting to me.
AtE to me is something that should be boarder line outside influence when used like this, but that's just my opinion.
bro wtf is ate
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:27 pm
by GrandpaMo
ive been ignorning u and this thing about AtE, but idek what u are talking bout now
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:27 pm
by Val89
Even so, there is a difference between referring to town in the third person, and calling yourself "both scum".
about it. Bar some super improbable game shattering event, We lim Grandpa tomorrow 100%. No point town!VFP 'trading' if we let the scum his trade catches walk free.
actually i have a question for you. tell me why you scumread me? also don't mention anything of the past 10 pages.
mention stuff i did scummy in the begiining the game because you townread me in the beginning and pushed james.
so i understand ur initial pivot. but does this mean you think james is town now?
what can you think of that can build a scum case on me without mentioning anything on the way i talk, or my playstyle really. (generally in the last 10 pages)
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:29 pm
by VFP
In post 965, GrandpaMo wrote:ive been ignorning u and this thing about AtE, but idek what u are talking bout now
Appeal to Emotion
An appeal to emotion is a particularly devious sort of fallacious argument, particularly in a game of unknowns such as Mafia. "If you eliminate me, you'll lose!" is an easy example, but there are many others, played by both/all Factions in most games at some point. The nature of the game lends itself to appeals to fear or hope or trust.
This tactic is in general very effective against people who are not aware of it. As such, deploying it in a Mafia game with experienced players tends to backfire, as they'll be aware that you're trying to manipulate them, behaviour which is more typically seen coming from scum than from town.
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:30 pm
by GrandpaMo
In post 966, Val89 wrote:Even so, there is a difference between referring to town in the third person, and calling yourself "both scum".
lol flailing scum tryna make anything to make me look scum
like yk what i meant and its so obvious that im just fucking around wit u atp.
In post 965, GrandpaMo wrote:ive been ignorning u and this thing about AtE, but idek what u are talking bout now
Appeal to Emotion
An appeal to emotion is a particularly devious sort of fallacious argument, particularly in a game of unknowns such as Mafia. "If you eliminate me, you'll lose!" is an easy example, but there are many others, played by both/all Factions in most games at some point. The nature of the game lends itself to appeals to fear or hope or trust.
This tactic is in general very effective against people who are not aware of it. As such, deploying it in a Mafia game with experienced players tends to backfire, as they'll be aware that you're trying to manipulate them, behaviour which is more typically seen coming from scum than from town.
oh i just do it out of geninune frustration / confusion
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:31 pm
by VFP
No, you don't.
And I stand by what I said.
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:33 pm
by GrandpaMo
In post 971, VFP wrote:No, you don't.
And I stand by what I said.
can you tell me why not?
you've never really address this.
ok ok so now you may respond wit yes u did.
now pretend i didnt see it and this is the first time im asking u this.
now asnwer again why do you think i am lying bout my frustration? also im looking for a specific thing -- and if you mention it anywhere in ur quote i will scumread u even more even tho ur hammered idc tho it gets me happy points for me as well
In post 966, Val89 wrote:Even so, there is a difference between referring to town in the third person, and calling yourself "both scum".
lol flailing scum tryna make anything to make me look scum
like yk what i meant and its so obvious that im just fucking around wit u atp.
ur just taking advantage of it
@Val89 just kill me at night ok? its not worth to make thse arguements just to waste a day to vote on me. i mean its underatandable from ur side cuz ur scum. but u being persistant to keep saying i should be the vote tmr is scum imo
wait if there is cop pls cop check me omg game will be solved holy shit -- DO NOT THROW I STG AND CHECK ME
Posted: Wed Jun 23, 2021 1:36 pm
by GrandpaMo
lets play the silent game -- whoever talks next is scum and gets limmed tmr >:D
