Mafiascum.net

Alright, I've got to go but I got up to page 20 so I'm calling that a W.

My readslist hasn't changed but I think this post from mykonian is very underrated

In post 453, mykonian wrote:To Prism:

I don't think the pairing matters so much. I am not very interested in the neighbourhood.

The final lady gets the "hammer" on two competing "l-1 wagons".

Those two I believe will think about it because they have already given thoughts on the game that can be judged. It is the key decision of today, I want it in hands of town or if we get fooled into a scum forced to make it seem reasonable.

As is their entire set of posts on page 20. I think they realize that Enchant accepting really kicks a lot of predictability and scum agency out the window with the playstyle clash, and he fundamentally wants to be able to leave with a scum if required.

Oh, and was unsure how much to buy the mech dumbtells around that time. Me, Lukewarm, fireisredsir all not understaning the mech. I suspect it was easily missed even for the scumteam so my current stock is zero.

In post 900, Malakittens wrote:

I'm standin' there
On a balcony in summer air
See the lights, see the party, the ball gowns
See you make your way through the crowd
And say, "Hello"

~Yes to @Luke~

decisions in this game need to be to count.

I to perform flip.

In post 951, Prism wrote:Oh, and was unsure how much to buy the mech dumbtells around that time. Me, Lukewarm, fireisredsir all not understaning the mech. I suspect it was easily missed even for the scumteam so my current stock is zero.

for the record i did understand this setup, but i didn't know what y'all were saying about lovers. i haven't danced before so i didn't have the prior assumptions about setup that some others apparently had

mala luke acceptance is unofficial but assuming that goes through, we're at me + datisi choosing from noraa, dunn, and ceph?

i know datisi said he didn't want to hammer, but....

idk how much more productive the noraa vs dunn conversation will be. i would have liked for mala to not accept luke already because i think we could have gotten more info out of that situation

i guess she hasn't yet but it seems like she's decided

In post 955, fireisredsir wrote:mala luke acceptance is unofficial but assuming that goes through, we're at me + datisi choosing from noraa, dunn, and ceph?

i know datisi said he didn't want to hammer, but....

i open the game and this is the first thing i see, and like

i joined the game as a lady because i thought i wouldn't have to be making as many/hard decisions than as a gent but here we are i guess

In post 808, Lukewarm wrote:

In post 731, Dunnstral wrote:So no, you can't prove it

This really doesn't sit well with me. Because, in Web of Lies, Noraa was absolutely falling all over themselves to spout how they were the Dunn whisperer, with an impeccable ability to read Dunn. And Dunn never said anything to imply that that was false. And then Noraa was right that game.

Regardless of Noraa's actual ability, it is fairly clear that Noraa views themselves to have this ability and that Dunn is aware that Noraa view themselves that way - and both of those things can be seen in a game where both Noraa and Dunn flipped town.

So it is strange for Dunn to then go to "Prove that you can read me" which just seems like a discredit angle. But it is also an irrelevant angle if he thinks that Noraa is scum.

in web of lies, was noraa consistently townreading dunn?

also, why are you turning the conversation into "dunn told noraa to prove ze can read him" when dunn was telling noraa to prove he gives out softer stances as scum than as town?

In post 871, Noraa wrote:Ok datisi i'll ask you one question.

Do you think scum dunn is going to be harder to catch. Or do you think scum noraa is going to be harder to catch.

I've caught scum dunn in multiple games where NO ONE AGREED WITH ME. Dunn died day 5 in Control and was last scum standing in Mask of lies or whatever that was calleed. I caught dunn on day 2 in control, day 1 in mask of lies. There was definitely another game that i caught them in. NO ONE AGREED WITH ME in any of them. Do you not think that funnily looks exactly like this game.

And datisi, on lukewarm, do you really think that level of emotion and confusion is very town? as i've previously admitted, yes it could come from scum, but it feels extremely genuine and i want to believe it. also if lukewarm were scum with me, i would believe their ability to defend themselves. i would be much more worried about keeping myself afloat and not leaving behind any connections to scum buddies if i get left. hard defending a buddy sounds like a shitty association to leave a buddy no?

i've never seen your scumgame and the only time i've seen scum!dunn is when we were partners and he was equally low-effort throughout the whole game so fuck if i know. i feel like you want me to say that you don't like playing scum and will get tired out as the game progresses and dunn won't, but that is not meta that i have.

okay, dunn is scum this game. if you are so certain that dunn is scum this game, then what was the problem before? why were you throwing fits saying how you didn't want both you and me (who you townread) to get yeeted day 2 if you're wrong on dunn?

i've played with scum!luke. i've seen scum!luke throw such an emotional fit that i 100% bought he was town and that i got uberpocketed by a different townie, until after he flipped. so excuse me for not taking his emotion at face value because i know scum!him is capable of genuine emotion-posting. and yeah, it does look shitty, maybe it's a mistake, i don't particularly care. i've used the "defend buddy, then scream how i'm not so bad as scum to leave such bad associates behind" myself way too many times.

opening the next page and seeing noraa once again talk about how ze is gonna get instayeeted tommorow on green!dunn is wild

and the fact that ze has not yet acknowledged my "why didn't/don't you try to pair with someone you don't townread then" is even wilder

i'd prefer the leftover gentleman to be between noraa and luke

a preference for luke being left behind because, from what i do remember of noraa, ze can sometimes be emotional as town and fall for ate the was luke is presenting it, while luke straight up feels like cold and calculated scum!luke that's trying his hardest to appear a nuanced townie while ever so slightly twisting other people's logic to his benefit

and since mala's acceptance didn't go through yet, i'd like her to (1) explain to me why she'd accept luke, (2) reconsider

well if you prefer that you can accept dunns request

(not to rush but. you do have agency)

bc in that situation then fire probably goes with ceph and then boom

i am aware but like

i'd prefer luke to be left behind rather than noraa and i think there's value in seeing certain events before that

fair enough

*twirls happily, paired, thriving, flourishing*

Good Marrow friends. I promised a response to 795, and I hath returned to deliver.

In post 795, Dunnstral wrote: Asking a bunch of questions that don't lead anywhere is a generic scumtell, and this is what Lukewarm is doing here

If I had a dollar for every time someone accused me of asking/answering (in other people's opinions) pointless questions, regardless of my alignment, I would have some number of dollars. And the way this is structured so that it is **technically** correct, makes me feel like Dunn is aware of that.

Like, Dunn knows that he can't say that *Luke* doing it is scummy, so he has to qualifier it that it is a "generic scumtell." Dunn and I have played in at least 6 games together that I can name off of the top of my head, but he is turning to generic scum tells as a meta way to drop shade vs saying that this is or isn't something that town Luke does.
-

In post 267, Lukewarm wrote:I have completed my iso dives of all of the eligible ladies, and I have an issue. I did not find any scum reads

I like Ydra, Dats, and Fire all as town leans.

Enchant and Mala are both pretty close to null, but just barely perceptively higher then null for not seeming to care how their dip in and dip out would look.

Lukewarm doesn't have any scumreads here

I did not have any scum reads in the remaining eligible ladies.

In post 569, Lukewarm wrote:

In post 546, Datisi wrote:luke is the scummiest of the bunch to me currently

But this definitely makes me feel less inclined to pair with datisi now

This looks bad too, they care too much about how their own partner reads them and we haven't even gotten past the first phase yet. As a reminder, they still don't have scumreads at this point in time, except for maybe mykonium who they talk about right after they pair

The mechanic is that right after the night kill, the leftover partner can offer to dance with anyone. So, I realized that pairing with someone who had me as their top scum read meant walking into a "sway their read on me over night, or die promtly" situation. Which, surprise, does not sound fun.

As a reminder, Dunn is either twisting what I said in 267 to create a narrative, or he just wasn't reading very closely while "sorting" me.

In this post they show they have a scumread on noraa from before this point, and this is who he needs to be scumreading here to survive to the next phase. I mentioned that it was looking like either Lukewarm or Noraa were being left out at this point, and this shift in reads benefits lukewarm because if scum he can get noraa eliminated after.

Oh look. The conclusion he was trying to build up to by saying I didn't have scum reads before. That I was then faking having been scum reading noraa, in order to look like i was shifting reads. I am sure that Dunn, if he thought that was true, took the time to look back at my ISO to see if I really was scum reading Noraa before that point. But maybe not.

In post 326, Lukewarm wrote:Before doing my iso dives of the gentlemen, I would be inclined to leave Noraa behind.

I would also say, that scum reading Dunn was not the scum read I needed her to survive. Noraa was. He says that it was looking like me or noraa was gonna go, but from my pov, all signs were pointing to noraa. So, No. Dropping my scum read on noraa, and falling over myself to paint Dunn as scum, was not the tactical choice I would have made if I were scum

(unless maybe I was scum with Noraa? But Dunn later argues that he doesn't think that we are scum together

Datisis points out here that Luke intends to have Noraa voted out on my town flip

I will concede to both Datisi and Dunn, that that post does look that way. Because I did originally think how all powerful a Dunn flip was, and I distinctly typed it out as such. But, as I typed it out, I realized that I think Noraa might still be town if there was a town!Dunn flip. So, I went back and edited out the section that said that a town!dunn flip would make Noraa scum. So, that line that Datisi pointed out did have that as an implication as it was missed in that editing decision.

I see that Mala accepted, but that that acceptance was not accepted. Sad.

In post 958, Datisi wrote:

In post 808, Lukewarm wrote:

In post 731, Dunnstral wrote:So no, you can't prove it

This really doesn't sit well with me. Because, in Web of Lies, Noraa was absolutely falling all over themselves to spout how they were the Dunn whisperer, with an impeccable ability to read Dunn. And Dunn never said anything to imply that that was false. And then Noraa was right that game.

Regardless of Noraa's actual ability, it is fairly clear that Noraa views themselves to have this ability and that Dunn is aware that Noraa view themselves that way - and both of those things can be seen in a game where both Noraa and Dunn flipped town.

So it is strange for Dunn to then go to "Prove that you can read me" which just seems like a discredit angle. But it is also an irrelevant angle if he thinks that Noraa is scum.

in web of lies, was noraa consistently townreading dunn?

also, why are you turning the conversation into "dunn told noraa to prove ze can read him" when dunn was telling noraa to prove he gives out softer stances as scum than as town?

Yes.
Ze he repped in during night 1, read 4 pages, declared Dunn so ridiculously obviously town after reading 4 pages of the game, and kept the extreme energy about it to the point of it feeling like if anyone even considered scum reading dunn, ze might kill your puppy in retribution. And was falling over zirself to yell at anyone who shaded Dunn all the way up to him later being revealed as a Friendly Neighbor, so she didn't need to anymore.

Because after seeing this line

In post 751, Dunnstral wrote:To be clear, I am saying they are either lying or misinformed, and that what they are claiming is untrue

I thought that he was ramping up to calling zir scum faking an ability to read him, and I was arguing that that is a dumb reason to think that Noraa is scum. Because Noraa clearly believes in their metric, whether Dunn thinks it is a good metric or not.

So, I was responding under that reading until I got to the point that Noraa outright asked him if he thought that ze was scum trying to push him.

Also, ze's stated metric in this game, is consistent to the metric they presented briefly in web of lies.

In post 1527, Noraa wrote:Dunn is SOOOOOOOO TOWNY when he's town like genuinely it's like night and day.
like his scum game is just sooooooooo floaty and nothing nothing
but his town game like you read like two posts and ur like holy shit dunn so towny

If you consider "floaty and nothing nothing" to be consistent with "soft stances," which I do.

In post 938, Dunnstral wrote:I'll put it on record that I don't think bell is mafia

Agreed

In post 881, Prism wrote:

In post 867, Lukewarm wrote:Prism, one of (myko, enchant), but never both
Dunn

should get policyflipped

omgus

So you're arguing based on something that didn't happen?

In post 910, Cephrir wrote:

In post 867, Lukewarm wrote:Fire is my strongest town read atm.

i need to hear more about this nuclear take.

Okay. So Fire.

I put a lot of stock in visible meta diving with out a discernable purpose.

Like, I have seen scum do a meta dive in order to paint a townie as scum. That is a purpose. I can imagine scum doing a meta dive to paint a partner as town. I can imagine scum trying to do a meta dive to make themselves look good. But in general, I don't expect seemingly pointless meta to come from scum.

There is an individual side of this, because I would not necessarily town bin exactly fferyllt for this behavior lol. She is self aware that her town meta is meta heavy, and so yeah, I think that she migt try to weave that in for that reason (but even with her, I feel like she would be more likely to try and draw useful conclusions rather then just meta for the sake of meta. But (I believe) fire is a newbie, not even an alt, and therefore does not have to play into something like that.

But then looking at what fire has done wrt meta.



He gave himself a homework assignemnt. And then did nothing with it. There was enough here to show that he did in fact do some meta on him, but then he never uses it to drive somewhere, because he felt like his conclusions were weak.

I think that it is clear that the purpose of the meta dive was not to push Myko, because he didn't ever actually use anything to push it.
But also, I don't think that this was with the purpuse of trying to get town read either, because otherwise 249 would have come without prompting. Instead, he was not setting himself up to look good with it, he was quietly walking away from it with 208.

----

Then he says he did some meta on Dunn to in post 710, and his conclusion later ends up similar to my own impression of Dunn, so i buy that he also looked into Dunn

In post 859, fireisredsir wrote:dunn seems a little sharper and more insightful than that usually

Sharp and insightful would in fact be how I describe him.

----

Stepping away from the fact that he keeps giving himself meta homework, 859 also makes me think he is town. There is a level of nuance to the Dunn v Luke debate, that he didn't really need. If Dunn and I are both town, scum!Fire could stay out of it. But instead, I see his read shifting on the situation as posts arise. From liking Noraa's case on Dunn, to liking Dunn's initial response in 710, to this take against Dunn in 859.

And if dunn is his partner, then there I doubt he would be making a nuanced stance against Dunn.

---

There were a couple smaller things that I liked, but those were the big ones, and this is already a massive post.

In post 971, Dunnstral wrote:So you're arguing based on something that didn't happen?

This is a bad faith, scummy question.

I would love to hear what about my play has been scum-indocative to you. I am inclined to think it is complete bullshit and that you scumread me never in this scenario.