League of Legends (Old)

[kiwieagle]

SANDBAGGING?
Lies!
If they had wanted to then why did only ONE european team get in and three from NA?

NA ftw!


Im rooting for CLG and EG
EG is roflstomping.

NA has not once lost in dreamhack against europe.

Sorry if im being an ass but on the NA forum, europeans would constantly come and say "lol our meta is better than you, NA sucks"

[scotmany12]

Im rooting for CLG

Go away.

[Ankamius]

Another EG vs CLG finals would be nostalgic.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Ban Nidalee and shut down Chauster. Congrats, you just destroyed CLG.
Their shitty picks didn't exactly help them, though... I mean, Mundo? And no main tank?
But seriously, considering a large part of them getting through was down to the "unclear" AFK rules that suddenly got clarified after their progressing, 5th place is a lot more than they deserve. Was impressed by Xan too, considering how weak the SEA scene supposedly is.

[Nuwen]

Good positioning and int/disable picks means never having to run a hard tank. My favorite example this Dreamhack was the svisage WW/Vlad/Swain front line with Ashe arrow for initiate and Sona for endurance. It's actually quite schizophrenic to invest an entire character slot in a pure peeling meatshield if you can accomplish the same goal with LoL's slew of swiss army dps/cc chars.

Comps that depend on peel-meat are short ranged (Annie, Corki are common examples in this tournament) without spammable disables. "Spammable" here means "up every skirmish" or QWE. Hard tanks are only universally beneficial at low and midling levels of play because people are incredibly bad at putting their bodies in the correct place, so chunkpeels and initiate in 1 char slot pays for itself multiple times over.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Right, that's why CLG got punished for... not running a main tank. And that's why the teams that run a hard tank/meatshield are doing so well. Just look at CLG - when HotshotGG took Cho'gath and basically played him as a meatshield with cc (tl;dr - a tank) they utterly obliterated GamedDE. Elementz ran a tank build on Taric vs. Xan, and they won that. RainMan and Xpecial both ran relatively tanky builds on Jarvan and Alistar against CLG (as opposed to the AP Alistar we've mostly seen this tournament) and CLG, with no real tank or even beefy DPS, and their limited CC clearly not working to great effect (Hotshot went 2/4/1 as Malz, bigfatlp went 1/4/2 as Anivia). In constrast, TheRainMan's tank built Jarvan went 2/2/12 and was a major factor in the win.
You can tell me to "go back to WoW" (which I've never actually played) all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that the teams doing well at Dreamhack are the teams using hard tanks, or building off-tanks as maintanks.

[Espeonage]

Ok, So not as terrabad as I was a couple of days ago. Gotten to level 10 in three days. I think I'm addicted.

Anyway. Anyone else here noob so we can learn together?

[Nuwen]

I edited out the "go back to WoW" because it was rude. ^^

The jungle gangplank and meatshield Cho game was won by getting ahead almost 10k by the 20 min mark. With that kind of incredible lead going into the midgame, team composition almost doesn't matter. Again, they opted for Cho because their damage dealers were short range compared to the 2x AD picks of Cait and Ashe.

Like I said, we've seen a disproportionate number of Corki games in this tournament. He requires heavy disable meat on the front line. Count the number of Corki/Cow-centric comps. The hard tank isn't the

cause

, it's the compliment to the rest of the comp.

CLG picked a more positional-based comp vs. Fnatic in game 1, which explains mundo. That's not uncommon in professional LoL, and it certainly was the norm in professional dota. The real problem that game was the big amount of gold in Malz's inventory after a successful 3-man gank top, which put him ahead of Swain mid before the map was broken open. A rod and spen boots at the ten minute mark is

very bad

to dump on Swain, who depends on outsustaining to farm. Four minutes later, Fnatic was 5k ahead and needed only ride their gold and farm advantage into the midgame. That wasn't a compositional type of win, CLG just made crucial early play mistakes and couldn't recover economically.

[Knight of Cydonia]

The problem with that "positional-based comp" was that it had absolutely nothing in the way of forcing that position - They had Mundo's mediocre slow on his cleaver, Nunu's ice ball, and Nevermove (which was near useless, see Hotshot's 2/7/0) versus Ashe's stun skillshot, plus her Q and the W that applies it, Jarvan's knock-up and Cataclysm, Anivia's slow and stun, Janna's knockup and slow, and Malz's ult. It was a terrible team-comp, because every time they went to make use of any limited positional advantage, they got screwed over by hard and/or "soft" CC - including that tanky as fuck Jarvan, who was a main reason for that win with that 3-man gank. Game 2, again, little hard CC apart from Annie, and they got screwed over by another hard tank build, this time in Nunu.

[Nuwen]

Dude, finals scores don't actually reflect whether the

composition

worked or not. The early econ advantage on Fnatic is going to mean very, very bad scores on the losing team as they try to go through the motions of teamfighting. That game was donezo quite early for gold reasons, but was played out because it's a professional game. You can always hope your opponent makes a series of equally crucial mistakes (Fnatic didn't). Even though the game lasted almost 40 minutes, the last ~20-25 were just Fnatic compounding their already massive advantage. Always dot your i's and t's in tournament play.

CLG couldn't "do anything" because they were so behind so early. The three game deciders: 3man on Mundo top, 1v1 Kill on Swain after Malz spent that gold, Cow+Jarvan gank on Swain into a turret and dragon to seal the coffin. That's an unrecoverable amount of free gold on Fnatic players if they make no mistakes and press their huuuuuuuge lead. All of the above were

play

mistakes that could have been corrected by vision and awareness, not composition. We didn't actually get to see the finer points of comp vs. comp in that game.

[kiwieagle]

Im rooting for CLG

Go away.

fnatic pwned CLG

[Knight of Cydonia]

Finals score might not reflect whether the composition worked or not, but I'd say the fact they only came in 5th reflects that it failed pretty hard.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Im rooting for CLG

Go away.

fnatic pwned CLG

QFT

[kiwieagle]

What I hope:

SoloMid gets beaten by EG.
Then CLG gets beaten.
Then aAa beats fnatic.

Best American Team - EG
goes vs
Arguable The Best European Team - aAa

[kiwieagle]

Relevant

[I_Chew_On_Grass]

Time Chart

EST (GMT-5)	CEN (GMT-6)	MNT (GMT-7)	PST (GMT-8)	Dutch time (GMT+1)	NZST (GMT+12)
	I_Chew_On_Grass

[Chronopie]

NZ obv.

EDIT: and we're on Daylight savings atm (winter time)

[Mastermind of Sin]

Because obviously LoL games are very ganking oriented.

I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, because if you are, you're wrong. LoL games *are* very gank-oriented. It's an integral part of the game.

That's why every team has a jungler and that the sole concept of roamer is beyond your imagination. LoL would be a great game for chinese DotA team, I wonder when they will enter and completely crush the scene by ricing all game long.

Every ranked game I have ever played has a jungler on each team, and about 90% of the normal games I play have a jungler on at least one team. Roaming happens as well in LoL, it's not as prevalent as jungling but I'd say it's about an 70/30 split between the two.

As for ricing, it only works against bad teams. Any decent team shuts down ricing all game in LoL.

Removing the mechanics of denying was a good idea but it wasn't followed with satisfactory results because PvP wasn't encouraged. Even the low (understatement) on skills isn't sufficient to promote a fast pace laning. I have been watching *aAa* stream lately (certainly a top 5 team) and it's all about mind games and less about fighting. You may consider that this is better but eSports are here for entertainment and nothing else. And frankly zoning isn't interesting, kills are.

*shrug* I disagree. eSports exist for my entertainment, not yours. I could care less how fun a game is to watch, because it's more important that it be fun to

play

. And as far as that goes, if you enjoy playing a game a lot, you tend to enjoy watching out. People who enjoy playing LoL don't think that zoning is boring to watch. LoL is not a fragging game, it's a strategy game. We watch it to see people making intelligent moves and outsmart their opponents, not mindlessly run around killing each other.

That

would be boring.

[Mastermind of Sin]

Also, go fnatic!

[Shanba]

Before this tournament I was a little bit uneasy defending LoL as an e-sport because it was, in all honesty in the games I'd watched, a rather passive and somewhat dull game to watch. But this tournament has been amazing. So many great games.

[Papa Zito]

Anyway. Anyone else here noob so we can learn together?

Wuzzup?

I think you me singer and quadz are Team MafiaN00b atm.

[scotmany12]

I think how Riot handled the DC of westrice was pretty bad (as it wasn't westrice's fault at all, hardware provided by dreamhack malfunctioned, and then westrice had to play in a different area for the rest of the game. That aside, this has been a great tournament. I didn't see fnatic vs AAA (stupid test), but good job for fnatic.

[quadz08]

Anyway. Anyone else here noob so we can learn together?

Wuzzup?

I think you me singer and quadz are Team MafiaN00b atm.

And Zepher. Awwwww Yeaaaaa.

[Papa Zito]

And Zepher. Awwwww Yeaaaaa.

Oh crap I forgot about him.

GUYZ WE HAVE 5 FOR EPIC BAD TEAM

[Morthas]

And Zepher. Awwwww Yeaaaaa.

Oh crap I forgot about him.

GUYZ WE HAVE 5 FOR EPIC BAD TEAM

1 more and we can throw you in a custom 3v3 match so we can have some popcorn and cheap laughs ;D