Page 40 of 67
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:55 pm
by kanyeknowsbest
what. when you replaced in you werent actually expecting to replace in ?
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:08 pm
by Syryana
That's correct. I didn't even know this game existed until about 5 minutes before I got me role PM. Looked at the playerlist and the flips in the OP, and off I went!
Also Nati, that was fascinating.
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:22 pm
by kanyeknowsbest
why did you sound so surprised at the word mason then?
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 7:24 pm
by Natirasha
What was? My delve into the minds of a serial killer?
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:07 pm
by Syryana
"Mason?" was short for "There's a mason?".
That whole exchange in general. Mara's reaction was interesting to say the least.
Posted: Sat Jan 04, 2014 8:09 pm
by Lady Lambdadelta
Flying home on Monday. Literally have not read. Sorry guys, I'd like to be able to say something before the day ends though
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:23 am
by Selkies
.
He seemed really frustrated and angry. Genuinely so, regardless of his alignment. So, I don't think this was strategic.
From what he's said about his scum game in the games we've played in the past (he was town in both), a strategic replace-out is something he could conceivably do, so I think Nati is right about at least that.
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:36 am
by penguin_alien
In post 981, Selkies wrote:.
He seemed really frustrated and angry. Genuinely so, regardless of his alignment. So, I don't think this was strategic.
From what he's said about his scum game in the games we've played in the past (he was town in both), a strategic replace-out is something he could conceivably do, so I think Nati is right about at least that.
So you think what went down merited a ragequit?
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:51 am
by Selkies
In post 966, Syryana wrote:
In post 874, Selkies wrote:172,
198 both came off really town to me in a "yeah I suck at this game" way, but he kept scumhunting. I disagreed with his Smudger vote and the reasons that started around
358, but I thought they were internally consistent in a tone-deaf sort of way that he'd also shown earlier with his Plum suspicions. There was a sheeping feel to his reversal on Smudger around
498, but he'd already kind of latched on to NachoMara and he'd also said pretty early on that he didn't trust his own scumhunting skills and felt he did better listening to other's arguments. If he's scum, that was a masterful set up and a masterful emulation of confused but giving it his best shot town. I don't get why he'd replace out with a feeling lost sort of reason after accomplishing that.
So he's town for being consistent and that you don't think he's able to fake being confused as scum, yes?
I don't think it would look like his posts in this game if he were faking being confused.
In post 874, Selkies wrote:The players I'm somewhat familiar with look town this time out. I was scumreading PA but that's evidently me being butthurt over NY164. I was suspicious of her in the Space Mini Normal on day 2, and that turned out to be wrong. Ironically, She was a mason in that game, and her mason partner died on night 1. I was hoping to pick Nacho's brains some more about LLD, Kanye and DDD. I posted earlier why I think DDD's play this game looks town, but it's pretty thin meta soup. I have
that game
for experiential meta, and a newbie game where he was scum that I read in real time.
So, why aren't you picking Nacho's brains?
Nacho mostly hasn't been very forthcoming with me this game. FWIW I think this is more about his conception of my alignment than it is about his alignment. I'm paranoid about him because he's gone to huge effort at times to sort me in other games. In my lucid moments I feel pretty sure he's town.
In post 874, Selkies wrote: In post 866, Selkies wrote:Day 1 ended prematurely I was pretty happy with a good handful of townreads but hadn't PoE'd it down far enough. Had hoped we'd growl at each other for a while, and move the vote someplace besides Smudger.
Who were the townreads? If you hoped to have a fight with Nacho, why didn't you? Did you think Smudger was a bad lynch?
At first I thought Smudger was posting a lot of insults without giving any indication that he was interacting with scumreads, or even people he had questions about.
When he was first run up, his reaction looked pretty damn town, though. I pushed Nacho on that read and I think he agreed with me, at least for a while.
We didn't get things sorted out day 1 because (IMO) premature hammer. Nacho indicated he wanted more time to sort me before day 1 ended
here. I replied
here. Kanye hammered before we had that convo
here.
I seem to recall something about a penultimate votecount where you swapped from Smudger to PA and put PA at L-1. If you were/are concerned about things not getting sorted because of premature hammers (and you've been burned by that... a lot) why were you putting someone else at L-1?
IIRC At the point where Nacho said he wanted more time to sort me, she wasn't at L-1 anymore. Smudger was.
In post 874, Selkies wrote:Town reads:
PA - the middle of the game-night communications channeled by sixty were convincing enough for me to do a major rethink.
Garmr - meta read. This game he's not playing exactly like he did in our two earlier games, but there's a meta-trajectory to what has changed, and I think it's a town-game evolution, not a scum game. I posted some scathing feedback along with an ISO analysis in the space game while I was waiting to be hammered.
DBK/You - explained above. Don't break my heart.
Walked into a Club (Cabd/Mala) - minor concerns at times on day 1 but cabd tried to peel me off the PA wagon and I don't see why he'd care as scum. If anything it seems like the wagon on the stronger player going through would have benefited scum more at least in the short term. (yeah, yeah, terrifying scum game. I'm working pretty hard at not going into paranoid tailspins around him).
Purple Plague should be a stronger read probably, but nacho. Recent history says I can't read him for shit but I'm always optimistic that \I'll get him right next time. Until it's next time. In our last few games I think we've both been very suspicious of each other at first when town. The one that gets there first maybe gets a townread from the one who lags a little.
Middle of the night game communications?
Yeah, Sixty's posts after the day 1 cardflip:
728,
729
Why do you think Garmr's uh, "evolution"? is townish and not scummish?
My feedback to him was about his town game. And the game experience that he was trying to improve his play from was a town game. So, I think the stuff I'm seeing that looks shaped by my feedback and that game experience is an evolution in his town game.
What do you think of the whole Garmr/Cabd situation now?
You mean Garmr's idea that Cabd must be gambiting about something? I think that probably comes from Cabd's meta, including his self-meta.
I'll probably break your heart, but it won't be because of my alignment!
heh. What usually breaks my heart in mafia is being fooled by someone I wholeheartedly think is town.
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:57 am
by Selkies
In post 982, penguin_alien wrote: In post 981, Selkies wrote:.
He seemed really frustrated and angry. Genuinely so, regardless of his alignment. So, I don't think this was strategic.
From what he's said about his scum game in the games we've played in the past (he was town in both), a strategic replace-out is something he could conceivably do, so I think Nati is right about at least that.
So you think what went down merited a ragequit?
Merited? I dunno. I wouldn't assume that this game is the only source of frustration. When I blow up in a game there are usually multiple game-related and/or real life situations going on, not just the proximate cause.
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:37 am
by kanyeknowsbest
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:38 am
by kanyeknowsbest
In post 976, Syryana wrote:
That's correct. I didn't even know this game existed until about 5 minutes before I got me role PM. Looked at the playerlist and the flips in the OP, and off I went!
Also Nati, that was fascinating.
In post 0, Sixty wrote:Left for the Polar Bears:
11) Smudger - Sphinxeal, Vanilla Seallager - Lynched Day 1.
5) Kazekirimaru - Sealrius, Seallager Mason Nightposter - Devoured Night 1...
9) Plum - Seal of Approval, Vanilla Seallager - Detained Night 1...
this dont make a w2hole lotta sense 2 me
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:18 am
by Debonair Danny DiPietro
I swear I posted this yesterday, ugh, rewriting...
In post 966, Syryana wrote:I don't want to lynch you anymore! Why was the Smudger wagon a bad wagon, in your opinion (other than he's a dead townie, obv)
Because he claimed before anyone asked him to claim and his claim was that of a vanilla townie; there's absolutely no benefit to that for scum other than maybe a bit of WIFOM and Smudger didn't seem like the type to be playign the WIFOM game. Furthermore his tone was defeatist through the end of the day but he kept posting, again there's slight WIFOM potential but caught scum are more likely to either clam up completely or say crazy shit to either force claims or to just give their scum partners more information and again his path was the path of a (bad) town player.
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:21 am
by penguin_alien
In post 984, Selkies wrote: In post 982, penguin_alien wrote: In post 981, Selkies wrote:.
He seemed really frustrated and angry. Genuinely so, regardless of his alignment. So, I don't think this was strategic.
From what he's said about his scum game in the games we've played in the past (he was town in both), a strategic replace-out is something he could conceivably do, so I think Nati is right about at least that.
So you think what went down merited a ragequit?
Merited? I dunno. I wouldn't assume that this game is the only source of frustration. When I blow up in a game there are usually multiple game-related and/or real life situations going on, not just the proximate cause.
All right. So, if you were talking about this game to someone post-completion and had to describe what happened in the thread between
908 and
939 (a nine hour time period), what would you say?
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 7:46 am
by Selkies
In post 988, penguin_alien wrote: In post 984, Selkies wrote: In post 982, penguin_alien wrote: In post 981, Selkies wrote:.
He seemed really frustrated and angry. Genuinely so, regardless of his alignment. So, I don't think this was strategic.
From what he's said about his scum game in the games we've played in the past (he was town in both), a strategic replace-out is something he could conceivably do, so I think Nati is right about at least that.
So you think what went down merited a ragequit?
Merited? I dunno. I wouldn't assume that this game is the only source of frustration. When I blow up in a game there are usually multiple game-related and/or real life situations going on, not just the proximate cause.
All right. So, if you were talking about this game to someone post-completion and had to describe what happened in the thread between
908 and
939 (a nine hour time period), what would you say?
"PA put together a strong cases on Garmr, kept pushing him, and it looked like he fell apart under pressure."
Falling apart under pressure is not unique to scum.
If you know anything about my game, you know that I can get deeply committed to a strong read. In the NY 164 game I reinvented my conception of the game setup rather than accept that a town read had to be scum.
This is not that strong of a read. We're into day 2 and less than a month of play, not day 7 or 8 and 5 months down the road. I feel like you're trying to push a lynch through irrespective of whoever replaces into the slot and what they bring to the game. You're not scum for it. But, I don't think pushing this hard is pro-town.
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:01 am
by penguin_alien
The pressure consisted of a one-post case. All right, plus Cabd's shenanigans. At what point would you say he fell apart under pressure? Preferably with a post number cited. It was pretty obvious that I was going to challenge him at some point today, so I can't conceive that it was wholly unexpected.
If I were trying to push the lynch through without a replacement, I'd be doing so. I'm more interested right now in analyzing what went down and seeing how people reacted to it.
You also mentioned that you thought the changes in his play were indicative of a town-self-improvement trajectory because he was being blatant about declaring how much he was incorporating your advice post-1516. What surprises me is that you're not questioning his obsequious tone in doing so, given that this is Garmr we're talking about. To say his game persona is arrogant would not be overstating my take on him, yet you believe that after one game whose loss he clearly blames on someone else he's been inspired to be your disciple?
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:11 am
by Selkies
I thought it was
927 where he basically folded. His posts after that, he was already cutting ties to the game.
We talked quite a bit in site chat and on skype after the Space game, both about his scum game, which he's quite proud of, and about his town game. He's also talked to Mollie, and she and I share a Mafia mentor, so the changes to Garmr's game do make town-sense to me. I don't think his game is evolving (or will evolve) to resemble mine. His basic predispositions in the game are much closer to Mollie's.
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:40 am
by penguin_alien
So up through that point you thought he was doing a decent job of responding to my case? What was productive-towny about #909-925:
In post 909, Garmr wrote:Yeh PA your completely wrong you should know my scum game I completely smashed you with it in the past.
In post 918, Garmr wrote:Penguin alien no we killed you because you did nothing all game and showed no connections to anyone and was lightly town read. You were the perfect scum kill.
In post 922, Garmr wrote:I also don't get why her vote on me is valid even when I read it I don't see those as scummy actions.
In post 925, Garmr wrote:
no for this
In post 910, penguin_alien wrote:Right, you were very helpful to the scum team in Mini 1516, helping them lynch VI Wake for the scum win...that's what you mean, I assume, not the time where you and your scum team killed my hydra N1 of the Narnia game when we were just a wittle VT because we we so vewy scawy?
I'm as confirmed town as it's possible to be without being an IC or dead and flipped. Even if he totally disagreed with my case, if he was town he had to consider that it was coming from a fellow townie. But he had no interest in demonstrating where I was wrong in characterizing his actions as scummy. Instead my vote just wasn't valid.
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:53 am
by Selkies
I said nothing about his reactions being "pro-town". I said that post 927 was where he gave up the fight. I think he handled himself very badly in his reaction to you. But reacting badly to your case and to the subsequent questions doesn't make him scum.
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 8:56 am
by Selkies
You know, a "your case sucks" reaction is far more likely to come from town than from scum. Scum get all hung up about why the case is wrong. A town player knows the case is fucking wrong.
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 11:03 am
by Sixty
(Guess who?)
Garmr (L-3)
~ walked into a club, Natirasha, Syryana
Debonair Danny DiPietro (L-5)
~ Garmr
Natirasha (L-5)
~ The Purple Plague
Syryana (L-5)
~ kanyeknowsbest
Selkies (L-6)
~
(Natirasha)
Not Voting:
Debonair Danny DiPietro, Lady Lambdadelta, Selkies, penguin_alien
-Gamr is being replaced. Please hold...
--With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.
Battery power:
Posted: Sun Jan 05, 2014 1:55 pm
by Selkies
ffery head v/la through 1/8
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:00 am
by walked into a club
Not like the battery is falling quickly or anything. Not like there's obvscum waiting to get lynched or anything.
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 8:57 am
by Natirasha
I'm doing my job.
Posted: Mon Jan 06, 2014 10:39 am
by Syryana
In post 997, walked into a club wrote:Not like the battery is falling quickly or anything. Not like there's obvscum waiting to get lynched or anything.
