Open 728: Sharing is Caring (GAME OVER)

[pinturicchio]

Tell me why my dave vote was bad?

[the worst]

newbie 1865

brbrb

if this is a good example of her scum game I am highly upside down in how I interpret ofrhz

definitely colder on her now but I've been getting colder anyway

[Something_Smart]

Pintu's: your logic is based almost entirely on how scumleaning someone lynchbaity is scummy, which is invalid because town scumlean lynchbait all the time.

[pinturicchio]

...and I don’t like how you keep bringing up your analysis of the worst’s vote like you’re trying to gain cred off that one thing. I also think town!pintu is a clever guy and I’m not seeing that here

Also, about the worst's analysis: fair, but I'm quoting myself about tw 'cause it was almost the one big case I made and it was ignored. About clever guy, scum!pintu is clever too. Pintu is clever. And if you don't see town!pintu yet is because of lack of activity, so we go back to square one.

[Something_Smart]

That should be "Pintu:"
Thanks autocorrect

[pinturicchio]

Pintu's: your logic is based almost entirely on how scumleaning someone lynchbaity is scummy, which is invalid because town scumlean lynchbait all the time.

My logic is based on how he hasn't said absolutely nothing about me and he drops the bomb saying I was already scummy before IRL reasons, in order to get a vote on me without repercussions. It's not the same of what you're saying.

[ruru]

newbie 1865

brbrb

if this is a good example of her scum game I am highly upside down in how I interpret ofrhz

definitely colder on her now but I've been getting colder anyway

I feel like 1867 is better

[the worst]

newbie 1865

brbrb

if this is a good example of her scum game I am highly upside down in how I interpret ofrhz

definitely colder on her now but I've been getting colder anyway

I feel like 1867 is better

?

[Something_Smart]

My logic is based on how he hasn't said absolutely nothing about me and he drops the bomb saying I was already scummy before IRL reasons, in order to get a vote on me without repercussions. It's not the same of what you're saying.

He didn't vote you though...

Also do you think town are less likely to suddenly out a read like that than scum are? Because town are more likely to capriciously change reads whereas scum, if something like this was planned out, could easily have mentioned it earlier so it didn't look as weird.

[Mathdino]

as in you should read both 1865 and 1867 for ofrhz scum meta

possibility of pintu/smart scum theatre seems low right?

maybe scumpool is something like
worst/jjh
pintu/smart
HWS

in descending order

[pinturicchio]

My logic is based on how he hasn't said absolutely nothing about me and he drops the bomb saying I was already scummy before IRL reasons, in order to get a vote on me without repercussions. It's not the same of what you're saying.

He didn't vote you though...

Also do you think town are less likely to suddenly out a read like that than scum are? Because town are more likely to capriciously change reads whereas scum, if something like this was planned out, could easily have mentioned it earlier so it didn't look as weird.

Yes, he didn't vote me, I said that too in my vote post, and that's another reason I'm pushing him; why voting HWS and not me? For me, it felt like the time was not right for voting me since there's no one pushing me and there were others talking about HWS. Call me crazy but it felt like inception

[ruru]

Ugh

I actually like SS more on the last 2 pages

[the worst]

was ofrhz in 1867?

[Something_Smart]

My logic is based on how he hasn't said absolutely nothing about me and he drops the bomb saying I was already scummy before IRL reasons, in order to get a vote on me without repercussions. It's not the same of what you're saying.

He didn't vote you though...

Also do you think town are less likely to suddenly out a read like that than scum are? Because town are more likely to capriciously change reads whereas scum, if something like this was planned out, could easily have mentioned it earlier so it didn't look as weird.

Yes, he didn't vote me, I said that too in my vote post, and that's another reason I'm pushing him; why voting HWS and not me? For me, it felt like the time was not right for voting me since there's no one pushing me and there were others talking about HWS. Call me crazy but it felt like inception

That's what I'm getting at about scumleans. A scumlean is literally when you scumread someone but not enough to vote, and town have those just as much as scum do...

(It could even be for the reason you described! Sometimes town will pragmatically vote the player among their scumreads that they most expect a wagon to develop on. I know it sounds scummy but town players do it.)

[pinturicchio]

t's what I'm getting at about scumleans. A scumlean is literally when you scumread someone but not enough to vote, and town have those just as much as scum do...

(It could even be for the reason you described! Sometimes town will pragmatically vote the player among their scumreads that they most expect a wagon to develop on. I know it sounds scummy but town players do it.)

Read his post again, I'm not a scumlean, I'm a scumread. I'm at the bottom of his list with HWS, his scumleans are jjh, the worst and ofrhz. Both Duckling and jjh are sort of a common scumlean/read for almost everyone on this game, ofrhz wagon stagnated, went for HWS who was starting to get some attention. I agree, town votes for promising wagons, but that doesn't mean my vote on him is bad. I asked why my vote on him was bad, because saying that is a strong thing to say (especially coming from ofrhz who said he was scumreading me because of that vote) and I'm pretty open to be convinced on why I am wrong.

[Something_Smart]

Fair enough, he does have you in the lowest category, though he also says that "gaps between categories are pretty small". But even then, you aren't his ONLY scumread; what's special about you that makes it the proper move as town to vote you over HWS?

If he had voted you instead, someone could have equally argued that THAT vote came out the blue and that he was keeping his options open on HWS. Why was the read on you so fundamentally different from the read on HWS?

[pinturicchio]

But if JJH is saying legit things, I'm upside down on a read, and I've been staring at my little notepad, and I think the read I'm most likely upside down on is HWS.
His postcount is lower than I thought it was, he's been largely gliding by, and he's a potential the_worst partner.

So if we lynch JJH and he flips green and I die in the night ~mysteriously~ I'd recommend having a think about HWS. I'm not at 'tunnel until dead' levels of surety or 'murder with vig' levels of surety, but I'd recommend giving that slot increased scrutiny if I perish.

You got it.

I'll sign off on that too.

I like this

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

His vote on my wagon was bad

He admitted his reasons for scumreading me were weak, yet tried to throw shade on ruru for having those same reasons

I have to admit, I overestimated how the thread was talking about HWS; I felt like dave decided to vote HWS over me because people were starting to suspect him and he only gave the first step to get followed by strong players like Zor and Dino, but yeah I thought there was more things on HWS so maybe you're right and I felt alluded 'cause I was sad the other day. But I still think saying "Pintu's vote on dave was bad" is an exaggeration and that ofrhz is trying to justify a gutread on me with bad arguments

[Zoronos]

why should i townread ofrhz

Do you still need an answer to this?
It seems like it's been overcome by events, but I go over it if you want.

[Zoronos]

I noticed that post too, but I don't think that's an actual scum slip

What was the point of mentioning it then?

I feel like this is a case of distinction without difference.
Obviously my reaction is colored here because I have been leaning town on Blackstar, but I think you're overindexing on an NAI factor.

I'm glad you've chosen to engage more because having you perpetually in ??? land makes me uncomfortable.

[Zoronos]

m'bad, 3 different people

core town is still {ruru, Zor, HitAlt} although i would really like to feel confident on ruru given that i didn't come up with that read and someone else did
NSG can probably be added to that for now

I have more reasons for ruru than this, but this is succinct: I don't think there's a world where scum-ruru lets me get away with 197. The trajectory of her read from 91 -> 190 -> 205 was clearly in the direction of 'Zoronos is trying too hard / Zoronos is faking content because the evidence doesn't exist in thread yet for him to be saying the things he is' then she suddenly about-faced. If she's scum, she doubles down in response to 197, calls it an ATE, and retrenches. It was very anti-opportunistic.

Also 221 showed she was really thinking through what was going on with the discussion on Pintu and not just scanning the thread. I can't see a solid reason for scum-ruru to interject there

[northsidegal]

i forget exactly where it was but i read a jjh/worst interaction that felt like theater

worth looking at perhaps.

[HeWhoSwims]

His vote on my wagon was bad

He admitted his reasons for scumreading me were weak, yet tried to throw shade on ruru for having those same reasons

Why's mine worse than any other?

I wasn't throwing reads at ruru. I was questioning because I genuinely thought ruru could have more of a read on you as it seems you have experience.

You say ruru’s reasons for scumreading me were weak, weak enough for you to subtly suggest a ruru/ofrhz scumteam, but your reasons for voting for me were literally for the same thing

It doesn’t sound like you actually believe in your reasons for scumreading me

Eh. I personally turned around on the team thingy since you both have since shined and lived up to what I'd hope. So with that UNVOTE:

[ofrhz]

pinturicchio - I will feel bad if RL is the real cause of the issues here. But it felt scum before that point.

If you think I felt scum before IRL reasons, why you didn't push me? You aren't pushing me right now either, why vote HWS instead of me? This seems like you are setting yourself for voting me when the opportunity comes, let's say, if someone starts a wagon on me. Start it yourself, or is that too much compromise? D2 would look horrible for the one who starts the wagon on the low hanging fruit.
VOTE: davesaz

There are any number of reasons why town!davesaz didn't push you but still could have had a scumread:
- Waiting to see how you play without giving a read, which would influence how you play
- In general, I feel like people push only one person at a time, which makes sense since after all we only have one vote. Dave was basically locked onto ruru for a while there, so I feel like it's not unreasonable for him to have sidelined you in the process.

this is also the first time davesaz brought up a HWS scumread too, and like... he can only start one wagon at a time. I didn't see any ulterior motive here besides giving his reads.

I think town!pintu would have realized this and not voted on davesaz so quickly.

[ofrhz]

was ofrhz in 1867?

yeah, for most of D1 before replacing out

newbie 1865

brbrb

if this is a good example of her scum game I am highly upside down in how I interpret ofrhz

definitely colder on her now but I've been getting colder anyway

WHO'S DIZZY DUCKLING NOW

[pinturicchio]

Yeah too late ofrhz I already figured it out, still think there's no relation between a bad vote and me being scum but sure you do you

VOTE: jjh this is a better vote for you