Mafiascum.net

In post 974, Gamma Emerald wrote:EGO FUCK ME

In post 957, Exilon wrote:I'm gonna have a long day ahead of me today and not much time to post; I wanna try and touch on a heatpoint for me rq tho

@cinn
Regarding what Menalque pointed out about you scumreading those that push you or scumread you. What are your thoughts on that feedback? I would like if you could go as deep as possible on this.

In post 976, Cinnamon wrote:

In post 957, Exilon wrote:I'm gonna have a long day ahead of me today and not much time to post; I wanna try and touch on a heatpoint for me rq tho

@cinn
Regarding what Menalque pointed out about you scumreading those that push you or scumread you. What are your thoughts on that feedback? I would like if you could go as deep as possible on this.

I think it's fair. In my completed game as well as this one I've pushed on almost everybody that's pushed on me, I find it's easier to determine their alignment and if they're actually trying to sort me by pressuring them.

Spoiler:

In post 152, Cinnamon wrote:One thing that I would really like to hear about are reads on the SEs and their interactions so far. I really don't like that they are all thinking along the same lines, as they generally think that the mafia are between Bob, Voted, and myself and unless the team is exactly Bob/Voted they're wrong FMPOV. I'm not reading town from either Bob or Voted but I think it would be useful to see other possibilities entertained as it seems somewhat suspicious to me that three different people with experience in the game would come to very similar wrong conclusions if they are all town. What seems more likely in my eyes is that there is at least one mafia there who is doing a great job at misleading town.

In post 158, Cinnamon wrote:I apologize on one part; when I looked through yesterday I thought I saw a townread on Bob from you, when that was somebody else.

You seemed inconsistent when you posted about pushing a team of Bob/myself when that was clearly quite unlikely, then shifting to talking about a Bob/Voted team despite having mentioned me specifically as acting scummy a number of times without specific mention of either of Bob or Voted. I thought that was weird.

In post 339, Cinnamon wrote:

In post 333, Irrelephant11 wrote:I mean I’m not just unvoting because i think he’s mislynch bait
He doesn’t show survivalism

I’m really struggling to nail down any strong scumreads
Navneet might be scum and I’d compromise there
Someone sell me on town!cinnamon because their participation in marathons showed me they are skilled as scum

I haven't really talked about this at all yet, but you've been constantly bringing up the idea that I seem scummy. Is there anything in particular that makes you feel this way? It seems really odd that you've been focusing on me so much with statements like this that aren't talking about what I've been doing in this game that is indicative of scum.

In post 342, Cinnamon wrote:Menalque, could you explain why you think me townreading you in two posts is 'trying to pocket [you] super hard' whereas Irrelephant (for example) townreading you in really the same number of posts is not?

In post 343, Cinnamon wrote:I struggle to see the logic behind that.

In post 345, Cinnamon wrote:Irrelephant then Menalque pushed me there for reasons that don't make a large amount of sense to me, which I find pretty suspicious.

In post 347, Cinnamon wrote:

In post 161, Menalque wrote:Brief thoughts from mobile:

I don’t have much faith in tone as a way of reading things and I still think eggs has done the scummiest thing so far objectively. That said, I’m aware that he’s being mostly read as town who made a genuine slip. For now, I’m leaving my vote where it is, but I’ll change if (a) someone does something I think is objectively more scummy or (b) we start getting closer to the deadline and there’s still no appetite for an eggs wagon.

Regarding SEs: I’m encouraged by the fact they’re reading similarly. If there were only two, I’d be a lot more concerned that they were mafia backing each other. In the current situation I feel like the third would have called them.

If we’re not going for eggs then I’d be okay with getting on voted or cinnamon. I honestly don’t see why Bob is being scumread. I’ll try to post something longer tomorrow.

Another question for you Menalque - I notice that here, you state that you were comfortable with the SEs because they were all reading similarly and they had yet to call each other out. In your reads list, you also have all three SEs at the top of your town list. Has recent discussion from them done anything to change your opinion on this?

In post 350, Cinnamon wrote:Lynching for information is a terrible play (in this scenario). Saying you want to lynch me then Voted (since I'll flip town), completely ignoring the possibility that literally anybody else is mafia doesn't make any sense to me and I'm not sure why you're trying to push this. I really struggle to see why you aren't really considering the possibility that the mafia team looks something like (Irrelephant, Eggs) and Irrelephant has been doing a great job of making sure the discussion is off of Eggs or really any other number of possibilities here. Just because the SEs are talking doesn't mean they're advancing the game in a way that helps town.

In post 354, Cinnamon wrote:

In post 351, Menalque wrote:

In post 350, Cinnamon wrote:Lynching for information is a terrible play (in this scenario). Saying you want to lynch me then Voted (since I'll flip town), completely ignoring the possibility that literally anybody else is mafia doesn't make any sense to me and I'm not sure why you're trying to push this. I really struggle to see why you aren't really considering the possibility that the mafia team looks something like (Irrelephant, Eggs) and Irrelephant has been doing a great job of making sure the discussion is off of Eggs or really any other number of possibilities here. Just because the SEs are talking doesn't mean they're advancing the game in a way that helps town.

Gonna have to disagree with you there, Cinnamon. We need a lynch. I’m still hoping that it will be voted, but unless some more people get on board, it’s looking like that might not happen. Although I’d still be happy to lynch eggs, I think that’s unlikely. So that leaves, in my eyes, you or nav!slot. I’m not sold on nav as I think he went inactive too early in the game to read him as scum.

You, on the other hand, I’ve been going back and forth on but I’ve always thought eggs and voted seemed more susp than you. If neither of those wagons is happening, then I’m okay with lynching you. I’m not omniscient so I could well be wrong about eggs and/or voted, they’re just my best picks based on the evidence so far as I see it.

If you do flip town, then that means we went the wrong direction D1 and indicates to me that we should go for the person who’s seemed scummiest so far (i.e. Voted). I also note that you ignored that I did say that if the nightkill revealed additional information then I’d be happy to go another direction D2.

The fact that you’re misrepresenting what I was saying and portraying a perfectly logical argument (we need a lynch, the two lunches I prefer don’t seem to be going right now, you’re the best lynch for being plausible scum and giving information) as illogical isn’t helping your case.

In post 338, Menalque wrote: The thing is that I think that if we lynched cinnamon and he flipped scum then it throws off a lot. So I kinda wanna lynch him for that reason. But if we lynch voted and he flips scum then that'd leave me feeling good about an eggs/nav!slot Lynch D2.

In post 348, Menalque wrote: Either way, I don't think I'm pushing you that hard right now, but I'm open to getting on you because I think lynching you would be one of the best options in terms of overall information, see #338.

To me this literally states that your reason for lynching me is primarily for information. I don't believe I misrepresented anything you were saying.

Secondly, I ignored the part about power roles because I don't think Voted would be a good check even if there was a Neapolitan/Cop in the game. There's much more influential players and knowing their alignments would be much more useful. If we are talking about ignoring parts of the other person's post, I notice you did not respond at all to what I said about how players that look to be advancing the game are not necessarily doing it to the benefit of town.

In post 366, Cinnamon wrote:

In post 363, Raya36 wrote:I'm not liking Cinnamon near the start. I find he's playing it a bit safe. Especially around 154. I don't like how after Irrelephant challenges what he said he still posts that he thinks irrelephant is scummy but then after seems to backpedal a bit by saying he's not that scummy though and removing his vote. Also some of his wording in 154 seemed safe to me. (Small inconsistencies instead of just inconsistencies, saying it could just be this but I see it more of this makes backpedaling after easier.)

I like eggs for town. Mainly because of 102 (But I like his posts in general). If he were scum he's really not attempting to keep his options open and even when he found some minor things he didn't like he wasn't actively trying to push it which reads as town to me.

In post 189, Flavor Leaf wrote:Eggs and Cinnamon are my stronger town reads right now.

What made you change your mind about cinnamon?

I think I like menalque. His entrance while being fluff came off as natural. I don't like his push on eggs but he does make some good points that seem like they could come from a town scumhunting pov even though they are a bit of a stretch as someone mentioned. I do like his points made against voted though. His scumhunting appears to be natural to me.

Also related to above, I didn't feel Voted's defense to Menalque's push was sufficient. Self-meta especially is never a good argument in my opinion.

Irrelephant is a strong townlean.

In post 344, Cinnamon wrote:I am also starting to like Eggs less, I previously had a null read on them but their last few posts have seemed somewhat scummy to me.

Can you elaborate on this?



As of now I would be most willing to lynch cinnamon or Voted but I would much rather vote on cinnamon for now.
VOTE: cinnamon

Frankly, I'm starting to become a bit frustrated that flimsy arguments like this have been pushed against me for the whole game. Irrelephant has been doing it this whole time and now other people are jumping in on it. I can't see how you see just purely early game tone as 'playing it a bit safe' - I've been posting this whole time with all my opinions out there and I think that this particular argument should not hold water. When I unvoted I was unvoting flavor, who I was townreading. I was not unvoting irrelephant. There was no backpedal there at all, just me pointing out something I thought was peculiar from irrelephant but also recognizing that it is a weak read.

This was all from my last game, I basically pushed back on anybody pushing me to determine if they were doing it in good faith or not.

In post 982, Exilon wrote:

In post 976, Cinnamon wrote:

In post 957, Exilon wrote:I'm gonna have a long day ahead of me today and not much time to post; I wanna try and touch on a heatpoint for me rq tho

@cinn
Regarding what Menalque pointed out about you scumreading those that push you or scumread you. What are your thoughts on that feedback? I would like if you could go as deep as possible on this.

I think it's fair. In my completed game as well as this one I've pushed on almost everybody that's pushed on me, I find it's easier to determine their alignment and if they're actually trying to sort me by pressuring them.

Spoiler:

In post 152, Cinnamon wrote:One thing that I would really like to hear about are reads on the SEs and their interactions so far. I really don't like that they are all thinking along the same lines, as they generally think that the mafia are between Bob, Voted, and myself and unless the team is exactly Bob/Voted they're wrong FMPOV. I'm not reading town from either Bob or Voted but I think it would be useful to see other possibilities entertained as it seems somewhat suspicious to me that three different people with experience in the game would come to very similar wrong conclusions if they are all town. What seems more likely in my eyes is that there is at least one mafia there who is doing a great job at misleading town.

In post 158, Cinnamon wrote:I apologize on one part; when I looked through yesterday I thought I saw a townread on Bob from you, when that was somebody else.

You seemed inconsistent when you posted about pushing a team of Bob/myself when that was clearly quite unlikely, then shifting to talking about a Bob/Voted team despite having mentioned me specifically as acting scummy a number of times without specific mention of either of Bob or Voted. I thought that was weird.

In post 339, Cinnamon wrote:

In post 333, Irrelephant11 wrote:I mean I’m not just unvoting because i think he’s mislynch bait
He doesn’t show survivalism

I’m really struggling to nail down any strong scumreads
Navneet might be scum and I’d compromise there
Someone sell me on town!cinnamon because their participation in marathons showed me they are skilled as scum

I haven't really talked about this at all yet, but you've been constantly bringing up the idea that I seem scummy. Is there anything in particular that makes you feel this way? It seems really odd that you've been focusing on me so much with statements like this that aren't talking about what I've been doing in this game that is indicative of scum.

In post 342, Cinnamon wrote:Menalque, could you explain why you think me townreading you in two posts is 'trying to pocket [you] super hard' whereas Irrelephant (for example) townreading you in really the same number of posts is not?

In post 343, Cinnamon wrote:I struggle to see the logic behind that.

In post 345, Cinnamon wrote:Irrelephant then Menalque pushed me there for reasons that don't make a large amount of sense to me, which I find pretty suspicious.

In post 347, Cinnamon wrote:

In post 161, Menalque wrote:Brief thoughts from mobile:

I don’t have much faith in tone as a way of reading things and I still think eggs has done the scummiest thing so far objectively. That said, I’m aware that he’s being mostly read as town who made a genuine slip. For now, I’m leaving my vote where it is, but I’ll change if (a) someone does something I think is objectively more scummy or (b) we start getting closer to the deadline and there’s still no appetite for an eggs wagon.

Regarding SEs: I’m encouraged by the fact they’re reading similarly. If there were only two, I’d be a lot more concerned that they were mafia backing each other. In the current situation I feel like the third would have called them.

If we’re not going for eggs then I’d be okay with getting on voted or cinnamon. I honestly don’t see why Bob is being scumread. I’ll try to post something longer tomorrow.

Another question for you Menalque - I notice that here, you state that you were comfortable with the SEs because they were all reading similarly and they had yet to call each other out. In your reads list, you also have all three SEs at the top of your town list. Has recent discussion from them done anything to change your opinion on this?

In post 350, Cinnamon wrote:Lynching for information is a terrible play (in this scenario). Saying you want to lynch me then Voted (since I'll flip town), completely ignoring the possibility that literally anybody else is mafia doesn't make any sense to me and I'm not sure why you're trying to push this. I really struggle to see why you aren't really considering the possibility that the mafia team looks something like (Irrelephant, Eggs) and Irrelephant has been doing a great job of making sure the discussion is off of Eggs or really any other number of possibilities here. Just because the SEs are talking doesn't mean they're advancing the game in a way that helps town.

In post 354, Cinnamon wrote:

In post 351, Menalque wrote:

In post 350, Cinnamon wrote:Lynching for information is a terrible play (in this scenario). Saying you want to lynch me then Voted (since I'll flip town), completely ignoring the possibility that literally anybody else is mafia doesn't make any sense to me and I'm not sure why you're trying to push this. I really struggle to see why you aren't really considering the possibility that the mafia team looks something like (Irrelephant, Eggs) and Irrelephant has been doing a great job of making sure the discussion is off of Eggs or really any other number of possibilities here. Just because the SEs are talking doesn't mean they're advancing the game in a way that helps town.

Gonna have to disagree with you there, Cinnamon. We need a lynch. I’m still hoping that it will be voted, but unless some more people get on board, it’s looking like that might not happen. Although I’d still be happy to lynch eggs, I think that’s unlikely. So that leaves, in my eyes, you or nav!slot. I’m not sold on nav as I think he went inactive too early in the game to read him as scum.

You, on the other hand, I’ve been going back and forth on but I’ve always thought eggs and voted seemed more susp than you. If neither of those wagons is happening, then I’m okay with lynching you. I’m not omniscient so I could well be wrong about eggs and/or voted, they’re just my best picks based on the evidence so far as I see it.

If you do flip town, then that means we went the wrong direction D1 and indicates to me that we should go for the person who’s seemed scummiest so far (i.e. Voted). I also note that you ignored that I did say that if the nightkill revealed additional information then I’d be happy to go another direction D2.

The fact that you’re misrepresenting what I was saying and portraying a perfectly logical argument (we need a lynch, the two lunches I prefer don’t seem to be going right now, you’re the best lynch for being plausible scum and giving information) as illogical isn’t helping your case.

In post 338, Menalque wrote: The thing is that I think that if we lynched cinnamon and he flipped scum then it throws off a lot. So I kinda wanna lynch him for that reason. But if we lynch voted and he flips scum then that'd leave me feeling good about an eggs/nav!slot Lynch D2.

In post 348, Menalque wrote: Either way, I don't think I'm pushing you that hard right now, but I'm open to getting on you because I think lynching you would be one of the best options in terms of overall information, see #338.

To me this literally states that your reason for lynching me is primarily for information. I don't believe I misrepresented anything you were saying.

Secondly, I ignored the part about power roles because I don't think Voted would be a good check even if there was a Neapolitan/Cop in the game. There's much more influential players and knowing their alignments would be much more useful. If we are talking about ignoring parts of the other person's post, I notice you did not respond at all to what I said about how players that look to be advancing the game are not necessarily doing it to the benefit of town.

In post 366, Cinnamon wrote:

In post 363, Raya36 wrote:I'm not liking Cinnamon near the start. I find he's playing it a bit safe. Especially around 154. I don't like how after Irrelephant challenges what he said he still posts that he thinks irrelephant is scummy but then after seems to backpedal a bit by saying he's not that scummy though and removing his vote. Also some of his wording in 154 seemed safe to me. (Small inconsistencies instead of just inconsistencies, saying it could just be this but I see it more of this makes backpedaling after easier.)

I like eggs for town. Mainly because of 102 (But I like his posts in general). If he were scum he's really not attempting to keep his options open and even when he found some minor things he didn't like he wasn't actively trying to push it which reads as town to me.

In post 189, Flavor Leaf wrote:Eggs and Cinnamon are my stronger town reads right now.

What made you change your mind about cinnamon?

I think I like menalque. His entrance while being fluff came off as natural. I don't like his push on eggs but he does make some good points that seem like they could come from a town scumhunting pov even though they are a bit of a stretch as someone mentioned. I do like his points made against voted though. His scumhunting appears to be natural to me.

Also related to above, I didn't feel Voted's defense to Menalque's push was sufficient. Self-meta especially is never a good argument in my opinion.

Irrelephant is a strong townlean.

In post 344, Cinnamon wrote:I am also starting to like Eggs less, I previously had a null read on them but their last few posts have seemed somewhat scummy to me.

Can you elaborate on this?



As of now I would be most willing to lynch cinnamon or Voted but I would much rather vote on cinnamon for now.
VOTE: cinnamon

Frankly, I'm starting to become a bit frustrated that flimsy arguments like this have been pushed against me for the whole game. Irrelephant has been doing it this whole time and now other people are jumping in on it. I can't see how you see just purely early game tone as 'playing it a bit safe' - I've been posting this whole time with all my opinions out there and I think that this particular argument should not hold water. When I unvoted I was unvoting flavor, who I was townreading. I was not unvoting irrelephant. There was no backpedal there at all, just me pointing out something I thought was peculiar from irrelephant but also recognizing that it is a weak read.

This was all from my last game, I basically pushed back on anybody pushing me to determine if they were doing it in good faith or not.

I appreciate this. I understand that you pushing on a push is a space where you can better pinpoint if someone is scum or not. Is this correct?
Why do you think you have that tendency?
Do you think it's an advantage or that it hinders you?

In post 983, Dannflor wrote:Exilon, is this helping you sort Cinnamon?

In post 930, Dannflor wrote:I feel like town!you is more decisive than this and either believes the claim or doesn't - maybe I'm wrong there, but overall you've been very hedgy and more go-with-the-flow than I would expect

In post 930, Dannflor wrote:I also don't like this kind of hedging on pisskop:

In post 934, chennisden wrote:i don't think scum skitter will bus like this

In post 936, Dannflor wrote:

In post 931, skitter30 wrote:Dann the nice shiny banner i have is because i'm really, really good at bussing and distancing - this isnt a conversation we'd be having if i were partners with cinn

That feels like a weird way to respond to my read, but ok

In post 937, Dannflor wrote:

In post 935, skitter30 wrote:Also where does ur impression of my towngame come from?

Ok really g'night now

a few games I've read with you in them and your general reputation

I might have built up a false image of you in my head though

Goodnight!

In post 940, chennisden wrote:i feel like cinnamon tried to discredit me to some extent when i pushed him and now that he's realized it's not working, he's vaguely trying to appeal to the towncore by saying stuff like "this is probably TvT lol wouldn't that be funny" while leaving his discrediting options open

In post 959, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:

In post 644, skitter30 wrote:UNVOTE:
i'm not really feeling this anymore, i think

Why?

In post 964, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:He’s not really defending PK’s play though. He’s defending the claim. A claim that is a very good one for scum to make

In post 973, Dannflor wrote:Okay

I think you're town

Skitter, why are you scum reading Cinnamon?

In post 976, Cinnamon wrote:This was all from my last game, I basically pushed back on anybody pushing me to determine if they were doing it in good faith or not.

In post 985, pisskop wrote:Exil still scum.

In post 997, skitter30 wrote:

In post 976, Cinnamon wrote:This was all from my last game, I basically pushed back on anybody pushing me to determine if they were doing it in good faith or not.

well apparetnly this is a thing
UNVOTE: