Mafiascum.net

In post 965, Moment wrote:I'm quite willing to risk looking foolish if I'm wrong. I believe my reasoning is strong regardless of the true result.

I guess that's where we beg to differ because I don't want to lose a town game just because you're okay with scum fooling you.

Given strategy we can absolutely put NK15 as one of the people we sort and I'm absolutely going to do so because I'm certainly not going to call him a top townread and that's all I really want to say about that.

In post 971, Umlaut wrote:Something about the timing of this post bothers me. Like, Menalque and Alisae are getting into a discussion that is veering way off-topic and instead of trying to get reads from it or calm it down or bring them back to this game, notscience just sort of tries to join in here.

I was drunk and wanted to feel included tbh

Woah, did all the posts just shift one space up or something

In post 968, Hel wrote:

In post 966, Something_Smart wrote:

In post 963, Hel wrote:What do you think about what I said, Azelf? Why do you think scum!NK15 makes that play?

To spew anyone who clearly believed him as not the daughter.

Oh, that's a good point actually.

No, it is not. The daughter can(not must) freely choose to because the real PA is going to out themselves and stop it.

In post 969, Something_Smart wrote:

In post 965, Moment wrote:Oh? Is there something you'd like to say? Yes, I think NK15 is town, if that wasn't clear.

The point you're arguing is not something anyone would dispute.

Not really. I think you misunderstand me. My point is not to argue that town specifically doing outrageous things should not be lynched for it, which is obvious. My point is that things of this nature from town more often than not, and time and time again towns hyperfocus on them to their own detriment.

Obviously, if we knew NK was town, we would not be wasting time getting distracted by him. The reason he is getting attention is not because he is high-profile but because he is scummy, and so you should be explaining your reasoning for why he is not scummy, which you've mostly skipped over, instead of pushing people to focus on the quieter players when they still scumread NK.

I may have been brief, but I did not skip over it. I agreed with Menalque and made the point that what NK15 did does not resemble a real scum plan very much to me.

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In post 970, username wrote:No, because do you know what GOOD TOWNS do to people who fake claim?


They kill the fake claimer.

The best town players know not to dogmatically follow rules such as this. I see that I will not change your mind, but I take confidence in the fact that I know that what I am talking about—this principle—is correct more often than it is incorrect.

Also, please do not misunderstand me. I'm not claiming that people who fakeclaim are always town – that would be silly. Obviously, in something such as a Normal game, fakeclaims most often come from scum. My argument is more to do with this specific situation.

In post 979, Not Known 15 wrote:

In post 968, Hel wrote:

In post 966, Something_Smart wrote:

In post 963, Hel wrote:What do you think about what I said, Azelf? Why do you think scum!NK15 makes that play?

To spew anyone who clearly believed him as not the daughter.

Oh, that's a good point actually.

No, it is not. The daughter can(not must) freely choose to

believe me

because the real PA is going to out themselves and stop it.

His point is that the Daughter has to feign ignorance of knowledge that you're lying, while other players can react naturally and potentially spew themselves as not-Daughter.

In post 973, GuiltyLion wrote:Umlaut - real quick, what's your history with Titus

She was the IC in my very first newbie game MS (where I endgamed her ), and I've been in at least two and probably more completed games with her aside from that, as well as one other in progress. I was absent from the site for I think two years up until May this year, so all of that meta is kind of old.

Interestingly I have never seen her roll scum (though I seem to recall getting the impression she's a pretty good scum player).

In post 972, maxwell wrote:I sure hope so, been feeling a lot better about you since page 27 or so. Mind giving a word on 925? I think an inspect pool of 5 today is the best approach, if we hit a good parlay there the game's very easy with a few solid townreads.

yeah, I'm on board with trying to hit tea ASAP and I think the reasoning for 5 makes sense, with Ico giving the final call on the group

what are your thoughts on eliminating NK15 today? I overall agree with Moment/Hel in that I don't think his play makes much sense as scum - and I think he's very easy for scum to jump onto right now - but at the same time he's forever going to be a distraction and while I was kinda thinking he might be worth tea-checking, if he's scum in that world then we spend a few days just confirming that we're going to eliminate him anyway.

In post 971, Umlaut wrote:or this one; it feels like Hel is playing "maybe this vote is serious and maybe it isn't."

My progression on Ico:
>Vote is 100% a joke when initially placed
>Him claiming not to be able to make out the difference between NK15 and other claims I disliked and questioned him on
>He claimed Port Authority

In post 971, Umlaut wrote:

In post 779, Moment wrote:I think that in general scum plan things less than people think they do, but let's say that notscience did plan a push on username. If he were scum, why would he back down upon username giving his real identity? If notscience's plan was to push him for "faked anger", I don't think that the reveal of the identity would have changed anything. It makes more sense to me viewed as notscience realizing that the anger really isn't forced given the knowledge of username's true identity.

I feel like this is

Like this is...?

Also, please answer this question, which you ignored:

In post 781, Moment wrote:

In post 524, Umlaut wrote: I think there's a high probability there is at least one smuggler in those who haven't posted since NK15 outed. (Which is six players so that's not a hugely impressive deduction I guess)

Why? Is there something causal about not posting since NK15 posted and being scum, or is this just a comment on the specific people who make up that group?

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In post 975, username wrote:

In post 965, Moment wrote:I'm quite willing to risk looking foolish if I'm wrong. I believe my reasoning is strong regardless of the true result.

I guess that's where we beg to differ because I don't want to lose a town game just because you're okay with scum fooling you.

Do you really believe that I am "okay with scum fooling me"? Please don't misrepresent me.

I expect that if NK15 is lynched and flips town there will be a wave of accusations of gamethrowing, how bad he played, how town should never do that, et cetera, et cetera. As there always is in situations such as these. Soemtimes, people are unable to see the pattern of mistakes that they consistently make, game after game.

In post 980, Moment wrote:Not really. I think you misunderstand me. My point is not to argue that town specifically doing outrageous things should not be lynched for it, which is obvious. My point is that things of this nature come from town more often than not, and time and time again towns hyperfocus on them to their own detriment.

Yes. Fortunately, we can go more specific than "NK did a weird thing and therefore is more likely town"; we can look at the actual thing and determine whether there's town or scum motivation.

And this one happens to have clear scum motivation, and dubious town motivation.

In post 985, Moment wrote:Soemtimes, people are unable to see the pattern of mistakes that they consistently make, game after game.

Sure. And the best way to help them see it is to kill them every time they do it and then blame them for the loss

In post 781, Moment wrote:

I think there's a high probability there is at least one smuggler in those who haven't posted since NK15 outed. (Which is six players so that's not a hugely impressive deduction I guess)

Why? Is there something causal about not posting since NK15 posted and being scum, or is this just a comment on the specific people who make up that group?

man given that NK15 was fake claiming this especially stands out as weird now

Kuribo what do you make of moments defense of nk? It’s giving me the heebie jeebies

In post 986, Something_Smart wrote:Yes. Fortunately, we can go more specific than "NK did a weird thing and therefore is more likely town"; we can look at the actual thing and determine whether there's town or scum motivation.

Exactly as I did.

And this one happens to have clear scum motivation, and dubious town motivation.

Perhaps. Allow me to be clear in that I don't think that what NK15 did was a . I think it was fairly stupid, even if only for the situation that it's currently put us in. That being said, it really is a question of mindset – does NK15 truly believe that what he did helps town? That it was a good idea? I think the answer is yes.

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In post 987, Something_Smart wrote:

In post 985, Moment wrote:Soemtimes, people are unable to see the pattern of mistakes that they consistently make, game after game.

Sure. And the best way to help them see it is to kill them every time they do it and then blame them for the loss

If you want to lose a lot of games and blow a lot of air at people who probably aren't going to change, sure.

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In post 988, GuiltyLion wrote:

In post 781, Moment wrote:

I think there's a high probability there is at least one smuggler in those who haven't posted since NK15 outed. (Which is six players so that's not a hugely impressive deduction I guess)

Why? Is there something causal about not posting since NK15 posted and being scum, or is this just a comment on the specific people who make up that group?

man given that NK15 was fake claiming this especially stands out as weird now

Is it? You asked essentially the exact same question.

In post 983, GuiltyLion wrote:

In post 972, maxwell wrote:I sure hope so, been feeling a lot better about you since page 27 or so. Mind giving a word on 925? I think an inspect pool of 5 today is the best approach, if we hit a good parlay there the game's very easy with a few solid townreads.

yeah, I'm on board with trying to hit tea ASAP and I think the reasoning for 5 makes sense, with Ico giving the final call on the group

what are your thoughts on eliminating NK15 today? I overall agree with Moment/Hel in that I don't think his play makes much sense as scum - and I think he's very easy for scum to jump onto right now - but at the same time he's forever going to be a distraction and while I was kinda thinking he might be worth tea-checking, if he's scum in that world then we spend a few days just confirming that we're going to eliminate him anyway.

I think S_S raised a good point about the motive in fakeclaiming there that has potentially already been extremely damaging, and as I said he's not going to be a top townread so we should probably just punt him.

I really like Moment actually - irrespective of whatever NK15 is.

In post 992, Hel wrote:I really like Moment actually - irrespective of whatever NK15 is.

I haven’t minded him until the past few pages but he’s pinging my gut specifically wrt nk15

In post 990, Moment wrote:Is it? You asked essentially the exact same question.

yes exactly, that's why I'm reaffirming

In post 985, Moment wrote:

In post 971, Umlaut wrote:

In post 779, Moment wrote:I think that in general scum plan things less than people think they do, but let's say that notscience did plan a push on username. If he were scum, why would he back down upon username giving his real identity? If notscience's plan was to push him for "faked anger", I don't think that the reveal of the identity would have changed anything. It makes more sense to me viewed as notscience realizing that the anger really isn't forced given the knowledge of username's true identity.

I feel like this is

Like this is...?

Sorry. Like this is already adequately responded to by username's own accusation, that notscience backed down because he no longer believed username was an easy push after finding out his true identity. You are asking "why would he do this" when an explanation has already been proffered for why he would do this, and not actually saying that explanation is poor so much as glossing over it.

In post 985, Moment wrote:Also, please answer this question, which you ignored:

In post 781, Moment wrote:

In post 524, Umlaut wrote: I think there's a high probability there is at least one smuggler in those who haven't posted since NK15 outed. (Which is six players so that's not a hugely impressive deduction I guess)

Why? Is there something causal about not posting since NK15 posted and being scum, or is this just a comment on the specific people who make up that group?

Ugh, I explicitly intended to answer this question when I initially saw it and then skipped over it when I was posting.

The point was that the smugglers would have to make up their mind how to react to the claim and particularly whether to just instantly profess belief in it or not, and I found it unlikely that all of them would pop right in and give their own opinions before the town did. This point doesn't really work though if NK15 is scum (which I believe he is) because presumably they would have planned this out at least to the extent of NK saying "hey I'm going to claim PA, cool?" and wouldn't have been caught completely off guard.

everyone stop posting for a second so I can, geez

@Moment - sorry I think you thought I was saying your question was weird, what I'm saying is Umlaut all 'people who haven't posted are scum' is and remains weird

In post 996, GuiltyLion wrote:@Moment - sorry I think you thought I was saying your question was weird, what I'm saying is Umlaut all 'people who haven't posted are scum' is and remains weird

That isn't what I said at all.

it basically is tho

like yeah I hyperbolized by saying 'people' instead of 'at least one' but the overall point remains the same

In post 990, Moment wrote:That being said, it really is a question of mindset – does NK15 truly believe that what he did helps town? That it was a good idea? I think the answer is yes.

This is basically contingent on him being someone who's played for almost three years and made two thousand posts and yet cannot recognize an obvious joke, complete with a funny gif and a joke reply.

Not only that, but you'd have to believe that he studied the joke claim enough to determine it was likely true, which no doubt would also entail looking at the context and the reactions.

And yet, despite all this planning-- and the thing was meticulously planned, since he had a whole spiel prepared-- he never thought to crumb that his claim was fake, in case he was counterclaimed.

Alternatively, you could just believe that he's taking an ill-advised dive for his teammates, probably against their wishes, to help rule out possible daughters. Since the game lasts a fixed number of days, he might do this if he thought he'd be executed at any point, and thought it would benefit his team.