[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[bv310]

Agreed.

Hey Farside, for the next game could you put a blatantly unbalanced, small size game? I've always wanted to play one of those.

[bv310]

Following this discussion...

My Name Is Earl (F11 Variant)

Setup randomly selected from:

1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 1 Cop, 1 Doctor, 5 Townies
2 Mafia Goons, 1 Cop, 1 Earl, 5 Townies
2 Mafia Goons, 1 Doc, 1 Earl, 5 Townies
1 Mafia Goon, 1 Mafia Roleblocker, 2 Earls, 5 Townies

Earl is a Named Townie - no special abilities, but can claim the role name "Earl". (Scum can, of course, fake claim "Earl".)

I would enjoy this. We should give it a try. The idea of a named role in an otherwise flavourless game appeals to me.

[bv310]

I hope that game gets chosen, because I would love to play it.

I'd second this.

[bv310]

What about removing the Bodyguard and the Bomber, and replace them with a Goon or a Mafia Martyr (can die in place of another scum member), and cut the number of scum to 3? That way, it'd be 10-3. with two kills per night. The extra doc may or may not be necessary, maybe replace one with a Nurse.

I actually kind of like the idea of a Mafia Bomb. It swings the balance more in favour of the scum though, so it might be too overpowered.

So this way it'd be:
1 or 2 Docs
0 or 1 Nurses
1 Cop
1 Vig
5 VT

1 Mafia GF
1 of: Mafia RB or Mafia Goon
1 of: Mafia Bomb, Mafia Martyr, or Mafia Goon

This way, if all kills go through and mislynches every day phase, the ratio goes

D1: 10-3
N1: 9-3
D2: 7-3
N2: 6-3
D3: 4-3 (Lylo)

At least this way is a bit more balanced.

[bv310]

Yeah, this might work better as a closed Mini Theme.

[bv310]

Or how about a Bodyguard on either team? Instead of the possible nurse, make it a possible Town Bodyguard.

[bv310]

C9++? Pfft. Carbon-14 is where it's at.

[bv310]

I like it. Helps reduce "bandwagon analysis", which seems to be infecting every game I'm in.

[bv310]

Exactly what I think is most intriguing about it. It emphasizes non-basic scumhunting and thinking outside the box. I can run it as a Mini-Theme before it becomes an Open, once my Carbon-14 is over, if you'd like to try it there first.

[bv310]

I like it. Helps reduce "bandwagon analysis", which seems to be infecting every game I'm in.

You mean 'the best way of finding scum?'

Yep. Like I said, makes the game more interesting.

[bv310]

GOOD POINT ABOUT LIGHTNING RID, HE CANT WIN, OOPS :\

Make him a Jester too.

[bv310]

So it's a 9-3 with the potential for a Night 3 loss at the earliest? Sounds pretty balanced to me.

[bv310]

^Touche. I meant the D3 comment like this:

D1 Mislynch
N1 PGO gets a kill, Mafia gets a kill
D2 is now 6-3
Mislynch plus two kills N2 makes it 3-3 and game over.

Yeah, it made sense in my head before I typed it out.

[bv310]

Nope, I was just thinking that too. He only has one legitimate target, and if the Hooker dies, he's completely useless.

[bv310]

it's a jank set up man

I wouldn't call it Jank, just not well thought out. Cutting the scum team down to 3 players and capping the vig's shots are likely to slow the game down a bit and keep it to D3 or later.

[bv310]

It wouldn't work, since the town could just claim who they AREN'T or ask everyone in the QT to post a certain phrase or vote for the person directly below them on the list, or say a certain phrase in their opening post, or all vote for the mod, or post a certain number (like the difference between your position and spot 12). Yeah, broken.

[bv310]

There's too many ways to break it. The game'll be called by modkills alone, which is not fun for any players. Even in an ideal situation, you have a near-vanilla game with a cop and (effectively) nightless, since everyone's got night talk anyway.

Either way, it won't work. It's either broken or boring.

EDIT: Here's a breaking strategy that you can't put a rule against without making the game unplayable. Everybody puts a number in their post in the QT, then puts the same number in their actual post. No rule is broken, since numbers are entirely allowed in both QTs and in-game talk, but you now have 7 confirmed townies, a cop, and 3 goons.

[bv310]

SK Masons are just another scum team, with two GFs. Not fun for the other team, since they need to get both SKs lynched.

The massive amount of power roles is not a bad idea, but passing them on is not going to work at all. Having the roles permanently in the game means that the game will permanently be a draw, so long as the BP townie doesn't pass his power to scum. (BP/GF or BP/SK or SK/GF is a tie)

I'd run it as a Theme before you propose it as an Open, but it looks pretty poorly set up as it is.

[bv310]

Then they'd just be a considerably weaker scum team.

[bv310]

So they're a scum team with two Godfathers.

[bv310]

You're missing the point. Having a two scum team game more often than not relies on crosskills to come to a successful conclusion. Having an entirely bulletproof team means that BOTH of them need to be lynched in order for another team to win. Coupled with the Vig role shooting at just about anybody, Team 2 will win in most cases. This isn't a setup most people would want to play, since unless you end up on the SK team, you are more than likely going to lose.

[bv310]

I still don't like it, but that's a bit closer to the balance you need.

[bv310]

To make the game fair, it should be able to. Otherwise, a PR pass would mean confirmed townie status if they could prove it.

[bv310]

Mafia Millers would simply be told their role, then would be aligned with the mafia and investigate as Mafia, i.e. a Goon. The BPs would be like Godfathers, and every other role has a scum counterrole.

[bv310]

^I like it. Framers don't get nearly enough use.

[bv310]

Gotta admit Shotty, that sounds really cool.

One question: How would the scum decide who dies? Does the original team get to choose? What happens if they're both lynched and some of the converted are still alive?

[bv310]

Maybe do it as one assigned scum, and give him a pre-game recruit. You could do it with Lost Boys flavour, and it would be awesome.

[bv310]

What's a Lawyer anyway? I'm not familiar with that role.

[bv310]

1 Cultist, 11 Town, after D2, the cult has to make one ritual sacrifice of one of their recruited members. Only the original cultist can recruit, and only he gets to choose who dies. He also has to choose a backup sacrifice. He gets an N0 recruit. Town gets one PR, the Cleanser, who is able to de-brainwash one cultist at night. The cult still has to make a sacrifice though, so if he is successful on the right cultist, then the backup is sacrificed instead. If his target is targeted for the recruit, it fails.

[bv310]

I think that'd be a bit more interesting in a currency system. As the game progresses, put up puzzles or riddles for the players to solve, then give the first 3 some amount of the currency. Each night, they can spend it to buy a PR or save it for a better PR. Make the lower ones a One-shot, and the higher ones either multiple shot or unlimited.

If you actually want to, we could try doing this as a Large Theme instead of an Open. I'd be down to co-mod.

[bv310]

A Mini? I don't think you'd get the full interaction at 12 players.

[bv310]

Pffft. 24. We're going 75!

[bv310]

I'm thinking each player gets a certain amount based on role, then get to spend their points on either votes/actions during the day, or buying skills at night. Maybe do something like the item system from L4D mafia, but for bonus cash.

[bv310]

Or the scum put themselves on the list too. Shotty, neither of those are good ideas for Open games. Why don't you try running one of your setups first, then bring it here if it works?

Anyway, for that one, the game'll be over within two nights, ESPECIALLY with the Cop/Deputy setup.

[bv310]

Shotty, just run one setup. That will help you infinitely more in design than throwing up random ideas in here.

Also, that Lamp Shade is a Bodyguard. It is not a dumb role whatsoever. In fact, having 12 (2 third party) JoaTs is a terrible idea. Even if they only get one ability, your N1 is going to consist of a lot of Vigs, and your game won't make it past D2.

Also, most of your last ones are DEFINITELY not Open Setups. They are Themes, and need to be run in that queue, with that review system.

[bv310]

I had Crush as my secondary for my Open. Looked like a sweet setup.

[bv310]

Technically Mafia Goons are Vanilla.

[bv310]

4 Townies
1 Inverse Lynchee
1 Inverse Lyncher

Inverse Lyncher knows their Inverse Lynchee. Inverse Lyncher wins if their target is alive at the end, even if they are dead.
Inverse Lynchee wins if they are alive and it's impossible to lynch them (1 townie left or 2 townies and inverse lyncher alive). They don't know who the inverse lyncher is.
Townies win if they lynch the inverse lynchee.

Don't think this is technically Mafia.

[bv310]

Shotty, think of it this way: Would you want to be scum in that game? Scum are basically facing impossible odds.

[bv310]

Those aren't doctors. They may become doctors in a very rare circumstance, but they would likely be dead first.

[bv310]

There are 3 kills pre night, with the potential for a fourth on D2. By D3, in a case where all abilities are used, you have 10 dead. That is half of your playerlist. Seriously, run this in the Mini Theme queue and see how it plays out. This will give you infinitely more understanding of why this is a horribly broken setup.

[bv310]

Giving them a claim restriction does absolutely nothing except introduce modkills, WHICH UNBALANCE THE GAME EVEN MORE.

Run one game, Shotty. Then come back and make balanced setups.

[bv310]

Love Cult

1 Love Cult Leader
12 Vanilla Townies

Each night the Love Cult Leader must select 1 person to join their cult.

If three town are lynched then the cult win and town lose.

If one cult member is lynched then the cult lose and town win.

Town win probabilities are around 52% if playing at random (1/13 chance of lynching correctly day one, 2/11 on day two and 3/9 on day 3).

Nominate

I really like this setup.

[bv310]

Shotty, RUN ONE GAME. You will learn what a balanced setup is.

Also, this isn't the thread to try and push a new Newbie setup. This is the place to talk about Open Games, that are going to be run in the Open Game Queue. As for the setups proper, most Newbies have a difficult time keeping up in the 9P setups that we use currently. Adding 5 more players will just confuse most of them into leaving.

[bv310]

Tragedy, that's way too complex for a game, and I'm not even sure if you can call it Mafia.

[bv310]

That Traitor role is actually a Usurper, I think. Although it is modified from the normal Usurper. That's an awful role to pull though, since you basically have to not only take a 16-man game to a 3-man LyLo, but you also have to get all 4 of your buddies lynched in quick succession without drawing attention. Effectively means they will NEVER win.

[bv310]

Where's the difference between 2, 3, & 4? Is it in rolename only?

[bv310]

i like the idea... you know what?

Nom Oxygen-18

There's some inherent swingy-ness but it has all the ingredients for a good game.

I love it, and I'm a bit of a whore for C-14 as a setup

2nd nom of O-18