[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Meransiel]

Thought about this for a while.

2 x Mafia Accomplices
1 x Mafia Freelance Lynchee
1 x Cop
1 x Lyncher
8 x VT

*Mafia Accomplices: If one is investigated by the cop, the other will also be revealed as Mafia.
*Mafia Freelance: Is informed who the other mafia are and wins with them, but does not have access to the Mafia quicktopic and has his own, personal nightkill. If the rest of the mafia targets the same player as him, his role is made public.

[Meransiel]

Idea:

Couple Mafia. Basically, a setting where everybody has someone else confirmed. Something like this:

2 different Mafia groups each consisting of 2 people
4 different Mason groups each consisting of 2 people
2 Confirmed Survivor Lovers

[Meransiel]

@Ythan: They know eachother's alignment.
@Tragedy: Me=new player

[Meransiel]

This is a suggestion that could be kind of fun if played out:

Military Mafia

9 townies
1 roleblocker
3 mafia goons

All players have a 1-shot night kill, and all players have a 1-shot bulletproof. The same mafia goon cannot use his one-shot kill and factional kill at the same time. Likewise, the roleblocker can't block and kill at the same time.

[Meransiel]

Isn't that number of roles...too small?

[Meransiel]

Also why don't you comment productively?

Because I don't know the slightest thing about balance or improvement in those sorts of areas, maybe?

OMGUS

Idea:

New Blood Mafia

2 Mafia Apprentices
2 Cops
5 Townies

Mafia Apprentices are treated as Town if investigated until they kill somebody.

[Meransiel]

Once again, as I have told Tragedy. Me = New player

If it looks as if I'm ripping somebody off, that's not the case. Just sayin'.

Also, ok, 1 townie dropped.

Btw, I think 2 cops is not too much because the scum team may use only 1 member to make kills, so there's a good chance the other member will come off as confirmed for just enough to warrant a win.

[Meransiel]

The Psychopath will die night 1, no save.

[Meransiel]

The Psychopath will die night 1, no save.

Why?

(JUst so its clear the SK/Psychpath are one group with thesamre win con.)

Gandalf's post. Or if not then, one of them will kill the other either way.

[Meransiel]

If Psycho is converted, he can't post in Quicktopic anymore. SK will see this and kill him instantly. This is unbalanced.

[Meransiel]

It would suck to be a psychopath in that setting.

Even if psychopath doesn't know him, if the SK kills according to the psycho's advice, the psycho can somehow guess who the SK is.

Basically, in this setting, psychopath optimal play is find out who the SK is as fast and possible, and get himself converted to townie. SK optimal play is get rid of psychopath, who is a clear liability.

[Meransiel]

It would suck to be a psychopath in that setting.

Even if psychopath doesn't know him, if the SK kills according to the psycho's advice, the psycho can somehow guess who the SK is.

You mean...scumhunt?

Not necessarily. If psycho tells him: "kill A" and he kills A, tells him "kill B" and he kills B, tells him "kill C" and he doesn't do that, there's a good chance the SK is C.

Basically, in this setting, psychopath optimal play is find out who the SK is as fast and possible, and get himself converted to townie. SK optimal play is get rid of psychopath, who is a clear liability.

If a VT was lynched Day 1 then EV wise if the SK targetted anyone but the Psychpath then the SK has a has an 8/9 chance of winning. If he targets the psychopath then he has a 1/2 chance of winning. The first looks better to me.

What stops the Psycho from shouting "people I'm a psycho cure me pls"?

Although, I have myopically seen only the catch of your game and not its very small size. Yeah...that's something different...

[Meransiel]

how about make it cant claim pschopath..

WTF

[Meransiel]

Deranged Mafia

2 1-shot bulletproof Mafia Goons
1 Serial Killer
1 Noble Killer
1 Spree Killer
10 1-shot Bulletproof Townies

Serial Killer - kills 1 person per night, wins when everyone else dies. Does not ignore bulletproof
Noble Killer - kills 1 person per night ignoring bulletproof, wins when everyone dies. Cannot kill helpless people (people that don't have bulletproof)
Spree Killer - kills 2 people every odd night. Can only kill Pro-Town Players. Does not ignore bulletproof.

[Meransiel]

Fixed

[Meransiel]

They're not random.

[Meransiel]

Oh. I thought you meant roles that have arbitrary wincons/skillsets.


If random roles are lame, why do I see many faith-healers?

[Meransiel]

Actually, I have a better idea. Look up after a while.

EDIT: Done

[Meransiel]

No, he doesn't ignore it, but he DOES reduce it.

Also, thanks.

[Meransiel]

interesting....
I'd place my money on Mafia though.

What's your point? All games are mafia sided. So...do you Third?

[Meransiel]

The winner will not be determined solely by croskills. Note that the Noble Killer can't kill SKs, and the Spree Killer can't kill SK's, nor mafia.

I do agree though that optimum town play is to lynch SKs early and not go after the mafia, to reduce body count. It is not overly imbalanced, however.

[Meransiel]

Fresh, new idea (that I think will work):

All Over The Place Mafia

3 Mafia Riggers
3 Compulsive Trackers
6 VT

Mafia Riggers - every night, they can use either (only one of them) of these

factional

abilities:

> Rig a player to a bomb
> Pull the trigger

If a player is rigged to a bomb, nothing happens (though it is Trackable). If the trigger is pulled, all players who have been rigged to bombs are killed at once (not trackable).

This is a game of maximum paranoia, as trackers can target each other and wrongly think they found scum. However, there is also paranoia on the mafia side, as they must be smart about when to pull the trigger - because on that night, trackers who hit each other will obviously be confirmed town.

Thoughts?

[Meransiel]

Townsided cause if the vig kills the Rolecop it's game over.

So...what aboot my game?

[Meransiel]

Yes, they are a new role. And they can rig anyone, even themselves.

[Meransiel]

So it's obviously not nightless entirely, there's just no night kill?

I think three trackers is a little overkill. Switch one out for a watcher or voyeur maybe?

IMO watchers are better than trackers. And mafia can nk, it just takes a while.

Plus, if you're patient the killing part gets easier. Killing, for instance, 4 people takes anywhere from 5 to 8 days depending on how you rig.

[Meransiel]

I haz good idea.

Merciful Mafia

2 Mafia RB (can't kill and RB at the same time, not even when 1 is left)
1 Cop
1 Doc
1 Vig
7 VT

Special Mechanic: power roles can't use powers unless the most recent day ended in a No Lynch.

[Meransiel]

No, the mafia can still kill at night.

So a Montainous until first no lynch.

[Meransiel]

I like it strange. Also for the lolz both mafia could RB and give up the kill. If one of them is Doc targeted, instant confirm!

[Meransiel]

Weird setup I've come up with 1 second ago.

1 mafia goon
1 mafia lawyer
1 cop
6 vanilla town

A mafia lawyer is like a mafia goon, except that: if the mafia lawyer is alive and the factional kill is not used, all mafia members will appear as town to investigations for the night.

[Meransiel]

It is, but I'm special.

[Meransiel]

Black, Grey, White Mafia

33% chance of either setting:

2 Knife Mafia*
2 Gun Wielders*
1 Gunsmith
6/4 Vanilla Town (up to the mod)

1 Mafia Goons
1 Knife Mafia
1 Gun Wielder
1 Gunsmith
7/5 Vanilla Town (up to the mod)

2 Mafia Goons
1 Gunsmith
8/6 Vanilla Town (up to the mod)

Knife Mafia are like normal mafia, except they come up as not having a gun.
Gun Wielders are like VT, except they come up as having a gun.

[Meransiel]

i think you mean that the gun wielders come up AS having a gun right?

*facepalm*
Yes.

So it's essentially n (n={0,1,2}) goons, 2-n godfathers, 2-n millers, 1 cop and the rest townies for 9 or 11 players. Do the millers know they are millers?

Yes.

[Meransiel]

Strongly townsided as presented, but I like it as a concept.

[Meransiel]

You should probably allow mafia to collect letters from the townies they kill.

[Meransiel]

Mafia is already weaker than town, so it's not important.

[Meransiel]

Tic-Tac-Toe Mafia

Mafia

(4)

2 "X" Goons
2 "O" Goons

Town

(9)

4-5 "X" Townies
4-5 "O" Townies

~~

- 13 players, Daystart
- Special Mechanic: if three players in a row die (of any alignment) of the same letter the town makes a tic-tac-toe and wins.
- Mafia have a factional Governor ability where any lynch on a townie can be prevented - however, the mafia need to sub one of their own players in place of that townie. This ability has to be used before the townie flips.
- Mafia have daytalk
- Mafia can choose to no-kill
- 4 "X" Townies and 4 "O" Townies - the 9th townie's letter is randomised (50/50)
- Town win if they eliminate all the scum or make a tic-tac-toe

Nominated

This is pure awesome.

[Meransiel]

One thing that does need to be fixed, is giving Mafia the ability to sub one of their players in on ANY lynch, not just townies.

Well obviously. Otherwise governed townies are confirmed.

[Meransiel]

Or a mafia aligned role that can change the letter of another player?

Broken.

[Meransiel]

I has idea.

Transfer Mafia

2 Mafia Goon
1 Watcher
1 Tracker
5 VT

Special Mechanic: When someone dies, his alignment and role is not revealed. Instead, the alignment and role of the next person on the playerlist is revealed. If the last person in the playerlist is killed, the first one's alignment and role is revealed.

Example:

1. Washington
2. Franklin
3. Hammurabi
4. Williams
5. Attila
6. Broodmother
7. Jeezus
9. Theamazingatheist

Broodmother was lynched. Jeezus is a

Mafia Scum

[Meransiel]

Yep. It brings a new and unique element to the game that I think would be interesting to follow.

[Meransiel]

In a regular game, any game, if someone is a regular policy lynch, and the mod happens to make him the ONLY mafia PR, doesn't that swing everything to hell?

[Meransiel]

Let's say in that game scum happen to be next to each other on the playerlist (worst case scenario). That's a chance of... 8 out of 44, right? Or 18 %

The chance of someone bad at this being given a scum role and breaking the balance by making lynches much better than random is pretty much 20-25% multiplied by the number of people bad at this (which is undefined and undefinable, but arguably over 70%), which would be...17% at bare minimum?

Doesn't seem too far off from the norm. Especially since, if you do actually look at the setting, you will see it's pretty facile for WIFOM and lacks strong town PRs.

[Meransiel]

It's nightless so mafia doesn't shoot.

Seems werewolf sided to me.

[Meransiel]

NO.

The seer, if he says "hey I'm seer" is confirmed scum and dies.

Basically there are MORE werewolves than mafia, and werewolves win if they are alone with mafia. Mafia gains no benefit whatsoever to balance.

Therefore, by default, a werewolf is much more likely to win the game than a mafia. That is not balance.

[Meransiel]

Seer: "Well if you're going to lynch me, two of the Werewolves are ____ and ____. I'm not going to tell you the other person I investigated because they were Town."
Werewolf team:

Um...How is that even possible?!

No seriously, you just implied that 2 lynches already happened, and both were town
And the seer had a 66% precision.

It's just extremely unlikely. And an exceptional case.