[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[Trevor]

Someone give your opinions on this:

1 cop
1 doctor
3 VTs
1 Miller
1 mafia roleblocker
1 cop-immune godfather
Day start

The miller is told he is a VT, but the cop will get a guilty result when investigating him. Miller will flip miller upon death. Any scum can submit the night kill. Cop-immune godfather will be investigated as innocent.

[Trevor]

When a doctor is in the game, you can have day starts with even numbers. Besides; all games really should be day start.

As for the setup.. the miller just stands to waste a lynch, I mean how can town not lynch a confirmed cop guilty? with 2 MLs (possibly 3 if doc saves), the cop can really only be guaranteed 2 reports before LYLO; and if it's a guilty well then the miller makes it frustrating and a useless report; as unless the subject claims a PR, the report really has accomplished nothing. You'll never get the RB to claim a PR, so there really is no upside to a cop report. Innos are worthless as there is a GF.

There is no mechanic in that game that reliably can help town catch scum, and mafia have THREE methods to counter it.

Assuming town just sits on their hands and doesn't scumhunt at all.

[Trevor]

The point of the setup is to scumhunt, not to rely on the cop for finding scum.

[Trevor]

3 VTs
2 of the following (random):
Cop
Doctor
Watcher
1 mafia goon
1 mafia roleblocker (negates cop, doctor, or watcher)
Day start

[Trevor]

2 of the following refer to cop, watcher and doc.

[Trevor]

Town's power lies in the mislynch and the fact that scum cannot find power roles outside of claims.

[Trevor]

Town shouldn't get more than one mislynch in a 2-scum normal setup.

[Trevor]

Neither setup I suggested is gamebreaking and they are both quite balanced imo.

[Trevor]

The point of the 2/3 power roles is to add some doubt and give mafia a chance to counterclaim both power roles by claiming the power role that doesn't exist. The watcher can catch the scum NK, roleblock, or a town pr visit.

2of4 is a townsided setup. An unkilled cop simply catching one scum before lylo really damns the scum. The JK is an extremely powerful role as well especially because only one scum preforms the NK. The outcome of 2of4 depends on the prs the town has and how well they are concealed.

What's wrong with smaller setups? I find setups bigger than 11 people impossible to scumhunt for the first few days.

[Trevor]

Nothing wrong with town massclaiming before lylo. Scum can cc a power role or just sit in the VTs. 2 scum in 5 VT claims, town has a mislynch, 2 scum in 4 VT claims on lylo. Not bad odds.

[Trevor]

2 cop claims, 1 doc claim, 1 watcher claim.

You have one mislynch to decide who is scum.

Go.

Since there are two power roles and two scum, both are claiming power roles, clearing everyone else. You lynch between cops for a 100% scum, worst case scenario, 3-way lylo.

Trevor, this isn't epicmafia; I will never play a setup whose optimal strategy is to mass claim day 1 and lynch CCs. That is just boring.

Scum doesn't have to cc anything, town claiming isn't the optimal play anyways.

[Trevor]

Whiskers, EM is terrible compared to MS. I made an account there, and abandoned it before I even joined a game. It was that bad.

You can't expect to find rational play there.

That's like saying "French Fries are terrible. I bought some, but never ate them. They were that bad."

Also, let's say you lynch the scumcop. Cop has inno on dead Doc. Whom do you lynch?

Scumhunt

Back to this setup
3 VTs
2 power roles (out of cop, doc, watcher)
1 goon
1 scum roleblocker



Let's say there is a massclaim. Both prs claim and mafia claims VT. You have two scum in 5 suspects with a mislynch. If mafia counterclaims, you have a guaranteed scum if you lynch between counterclaims. If mafia claims the pr that doesn't exist, you have a 2/3 shot of getting that scum using the mislynch. Town is better off not claiming anything d1 and scum is better off not ccing anything d1 if town does massclaim. Any pr claims by town are guaranteed to be NKed.

Town massclaims:

Both power roles go uncounterclaimed by scum
Town has 2/5 chance of lynching scum.

D1: Town lynches scum (2/5)
D2: Town lynches scum (1/4)

1/10 chance of town win

D1: Town lynches scum (2/5)
D2: Town lynches town (3/4)
D3: Town lynches scum (1/3)

1/10 chance of town win

D1: Town lynches town(3/5)
D2: Town lynches scum(2/4)
D3: Town lynches scum(1/3)

1/10 chance of town win

Town has a 3/10 chance of winning if they randomly lynch after massclaiming.

Town doesn't massclaim

Town scumhunts

D1: Towny is getting lynched and claims VT, he gets lynched.
N1: No power roles are outed other than POE/reads by scum. Scum doesn't know who to roleblock/kill, giving the power roles a chance to use their power.

D1: Towny is getting lynched, claims pr. Other pr shuts up and town lynches someone else. Scum doesn't know the other pr so it would be risky shooting the claimed pr. Other pr can claim if they feel the claimed pr is scum.

D1: Scum is getting lynched, claims a pr. He either gets cced or the real prs claim. Lynch between prs, good odds.

Town has a much better chance if no one claims.

[Trevor]

D1: Towny is getting lynched, claims pr. Other pr shuts up and town lynches someone else. Scum doesn't know the other pr so it would be risky shooting the claimed pr. Other pr can claim if they feel the claimed pr is scum.

Why would it be risky for the Mafia to shoot the claimed PR?

The possibility of a doc/watcher on the pr. Watcher would catch the scum, while the doc would save the pr.

If the "other" pr feels the claimed PR is scum, then wouldn't it take

two

PRs to lynch?

If another pr feels the claimed is scum, they can just claim. The last one will also claim, giving you three pr claims. You can popcorn the roleclaim with the scummiest going first. Getting ccs with a mislynch guarantees a dead scum.

Now, watch this: Doctor about to be lynched. Cop claims, says he doesn't believe the Doc is real. Goon claims Watcher. Lynch Doc. Oh no, the scum is outted! Nightkill Cop and lynch goon, Lylo.

Reread, scumhunt, 1/3 chance of getting scum. Town's fault for getting in this situation.

D1: Scum is getting lynched, claims a pr. He either gets cced or the real prs claim. Lynch between prs, good odds.

Why is this different from the Townie claims PR version? Why does the "real prs claim"?
But you're missing the point. Here is a setup that is based all around who claims what when.
Give me a setup that doesn't revolve around claims that isn't all VTs.

[Trevor]

Last line is my response.