[OLD] Open Setup Ideas and Discussion

[pieceofpecanpie]

Howdy folks, I'm going to frequent this thread a lot more because I want to take an active interest in set-up discussion, comment on others and share my own.

I'm stuck for what to say about the previous set-up and I don't want to steal the show by throwing one of my ideas down, but I want to share it nonetheless and I'm happy to wait a while if you think I'm butting in.

I suppose this definitely slides into the experimental category and what I'm most afraid of is the following point

"The setup should not make claiming strategies (or any other predetermined plan) pivotal to the town's chances of success."

Have I got it totally wrong with my set-up and cutesy mechanic?

Bite-Back Mafia

there's gotta be something catchier than that

14 player game

for now

1 x Vengeful
3 x 1-shot Vengeful Cop
3 x 1-shot Vengeful Watcher
3 x 1-shot Vengeful Gunsmith
1 x 1-shot Vengeful Tree Stump

2 x Mafia Framer
1 x Mafia Rolecop

The cutesy mechanic is making every town PR have an after-lynch effect (if they are NK'd nothing happens of course), so the way this would work for Cop, Gunsmith and Watcher is that their results will be declared

in game

at the start of the next day. Vengeful is self-explanatory and Vengeful Tree Stump would be able to nominate anyone still alive to turn into a tree stump (they lose their night action and can't vote, however in this case not their alignment).

tree stump may be a stupid thing to throw in here, bit of a red herring for someone or something

Framers are in there to prevent the Cops from planning to be lynched and declaring who they will target. Rolecop is there to help Mafia figure out who they prioritise for night kills instead of mislynches.

I have no idea if this game is broken to begin with. The essence of the game is that I wanted there to be an extra consequence to a mislynch, but in a more "hey cool" than revenge/backstabby kinda way. I just thought it would be great to give an ability to each mislynched townie, using sensible roles to make sure mislynches aren't planned. I have no idea if I've done that and the idea's still in it's infancy and I'm looking for any feedback on how it can be improved, modified, altered etc. for it to be a viable one.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Thanks for the response.

I feel beefheaded asking these things how does the massclaim work out broken when roles will only be revealed by mislynch? eg. Say the cops decide to claim, they can't outright say who they'll target after they are lynched and initially mafia get 2 shots to completely misdirect results. Why are at least 4 townies confirmed? I think I'm beginning to grasp how Cops

and

Gunsmiths are a stupid thing to have together. I'd rather stick with my cop pool and swap the gunsmith role out for something else or tweak other numbers.

Do you think there are roles I should definitely discard immediately? What should I replace them with?

I'm actually pretty embarrassed at posting this idea because it's so unrefined, but I loved the idea (the whole post-mislynch action thing) and then fried my brain trying to figure out how it could work. I really need others to help jog that part along. I'm just too inexperienced.

[pieceofpecanpie]

What if I dropped the Vengeful and Tree Stump for 5 Gunsmiths?

[pieceofpecanpie]

All those ideas are excellent. I'm going to digest them for a bit. Thank you.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Okay let's incorporate that into a redesign.

Bite-Back Mafia

there's still gotta be something catchier than that

14 player game

I'll still stick with it for now

11 x 1-shot Vengeful Enigma

1 x Mafia Godfather
1 x Mafia 1-Shot Roleblocker
1 x Mafia 1-Shot Ninja

At the beginning of each game every Enigma is randomly assigned, but not told, a role taken from a pool of 5 x Cop, 5 x Watcher, 5 x Gunsmith. In the event of an Enigma being mislynched they become aware of their ability and in death can target a player of their choosing with it, the result of which is revealed in game on the following day. If an Enigma is killed at night they are unable to use their ability, however the ability is revealed to the rest of town the following day, unless the Janitor uses their 1-Shot role in which case it will remain an enigma.

edited with current role idea

[pieceofpecanpie]

I think it would be better to change the 1-Shot Janitor to a 1-Shot Ninja, but beyond that I'm actually quite pleased by the rework.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Hmmm, a quick bit of sums (although I'm terrible at working out probability).

So from the pool of 15 roles, town gets assigned 5 cops, then with 3 consecutive mislynches, there are 3 reveals. First cop has 3 in 13 chance of revealing a guilty (3rd is not the godfather, but framer at work), although any one of those could be innocent. Probability is increased from there.

So worst case scenario for scum: first mislynch cop gets guilty, town lynch guilty which becomes second mislynch cop who gets guilty, town lynch guilty and get scum, then town mislynch cop who gets guilty, town lynch guilty and get scum, so by Day 4 you would have 1 scum and 5 townies left, from there only a tracker would out the Godfather. Not to mention that you could keep mislynching framed players continuously. I'm also not sure on the odds of reaching that scenario, based on the randomly assigned opening pool and all the actions that would have to subsequently occur.

I'd definitely prefer Cops over Vigs as Vigs can simply negate scums abilities to stay hidden and feel a bit too swingy for this set up.

On the other hand, what I can change is take out the Framer and replace it with a 1-Shot Roleblocker? I feel that resolves your scenario a little.

I'd revise the roles to Godfather, 1-Shot Roleblocker and 1-Shot Ninja.

[pieceofpecanpie]

So with those 3 scum roles every mislynch gives them a defence.

Mislynch is Cop - Roleblocker can use their shot to cancel the investigation reveal
Mislynch is Watcher - Ninja can perform unseen kill.
Mislynch is Gunsmith - No matter, safety in numbers as there's an equal or greater chance it's a Cop or another Gunsmith

Only when there's a second mislynched Cop would town get a revealed investigation.

pedit: Day Roleblocker you say? Hmmm, interesting.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Actually, Day Roleblocker would have to function differently than 1-shot for it to be more powerful than just a Roleblocker, since scum should be using the shot on the first revealed Cop they would prevent town from getting any benefit out of that role. As opposed to a Day Roleblocker wasting their shot on an unrevealed Gunsmith and a Cop getting mislynched the following day.

[pieceofpecanpie]

What I mean by the previous post is that there's no certainty in the set up numbers, so revealed roles carry less weight than a successful investigation. Hence why I changed Janitor to Ninja, Ninja is much more powerful.

[pieceofpecanpie]

I've never played a cult game, so I'm really not sure on how to balance those. Is it workable to have one without a town-sided killing role? ie. Vig And would cult auto-lose if their leader is killed?

With a fisherman, can they fish for any of those items even if the given PR isn't in the game?

In your second game could you just clarify what the first and second actions of the Ruffian do precisely. And with the third action, it just works as a roleblocker right? That is to say it doesn't literally stop them from doing anything.

[pieceofpecanpie]

Simpling PoPP you can probably do something like

1-3x Vengeful Townie
7-9x Vanilla Townie

3x Goon

Hmmm?

Not sure what you want to say by that.

The main idea behind my design is town all get given a potential ability if their lynched, I've just tried to implement that with a setup that isn't broken. The second part's the tricky bit.