Medieval Mafia - Game Over

[Kmd4390]

Vote Camn

Seriously, she's scum.

[Kmd4390]

My joke vote and camn's post are a reference to a past game.

And camn, if you think my scumdar is flawed, you should read mini 677 that just ended. I nailed scum Day 1 and then went on to win it for the town in 3 player LYLO.

[Kmd4390]

The whole "coming out strong" thing was a reference to a past game?
Link please.

No, the Gambit was a reference to a past game. And the "flawed scumdar" is the fact that I pushed a case on her from Day 1 and she was town. I'll find the link if you still want it.

I think the "off topic" may have been a reference to the same game.

I could have sworn that all we had was a confirmation phase. Why is everyone act like we had a night 0?

Don't role fish.

(Another comment Camn can appreciate)

[Kmd4390]

Caboose, this is the game.

[Kmd4390]

I could have sworn that all we had was a confirmation phase. Why is everyone act like we had a night 0?

Don't role fish.

(Another comment Camn can appreciate)

what? (on both counts)

"Fishing"

[Kmd4390]

I could have sworn that all we had was a confirmation phase. Why is everyone act like we had a night 0?

Don't role fish.

(Another comment Camn can appreciate)

what? (on both counts)

"Fishing"

That's not a rolefish.

Notice the parenthesis in the first post and quotations in the second...

[Kmd4390]

I could have sworn that all we had was a confirmation phase. Why is everyone act like we had a night 0?

Don't role fish.

(Another comment Camn can appreciate)

what? (on both counts)

"Fishing"

I'm so confused now. Please explain what you're talking about.

It's from another game I played with camn. I linked it a few posts ago. I was calling out a player for fishing for about half of the game. The same game where I attempted a Gambit and pushed a case on camn, who was town. Figured I'd poke fun at that game in the RVS.

[Kmd4390]

I remember Cam Neely!
Just from the name, though... I never was into him... He was on some EASTERN conference team, wasn't he?
I live out west.

But I remember the name.

Yeah. Bruins.

TSQ, how do you have a serious vote on Farside already?

[Kmd4390]

You said:

Why is everyone act like we had a night 0?

I jokingly called fishing when you mentioned people acting like we had N0 because acting like we had N0 means night actions took place and you are trying to out people with night actions.

[Kmd4390]

You said:

Why is everyone act like we had a night 0?

I

jokingly

called fishing when you mentioned people acting like we had N0 because acting like we had N0 means night actions took place and you are trying to out people with night actions.

Are we reading the same game here?
When I see comments like why aren't you dead yet. I'm thinking wait did I miss something. That is far from fishing it's looking at people like they are off their rocker.

[Kmd4390]

I remember Cam Neely!
Just from the name, though... I never was into him... He was on some EASTERN conference team, wasn't he?
I live out west.

But I remember the name.

Yeah. Bruins.

TSQ, how do you have a serious vote on Farside already?

How do you find it so hard to believe that a serious vote is out already?

Because he didn't give a reason for it.

[Kmd4390]

I remember Cam Neely!
Just from the name, though... I never was into him... He was on some EASTERN conference team, wasn't he?
I live out west.

But I remember the name.

Yeah. Bruins.

TSQ, how do you have a serious vote on Farside already?

How do you find it so hard to believe that a serious vote is out already?

Because he didn't give a reason for it.

And that makes it unserious? Despite that fact TSQ said it was serious...

No. It means I'm wondering why he's voting Farside.

I'm claiming now, so you don't waste an investigation on me. I'm Sir Gawaine's son, a miller one shot day vig.

If you are a miller, this is the right move. Not sure I would have included the vig part though.

[Kmd4390]

There seems to me to be a huge difference between wondering what it's for, and saying "I don't know how TSQ has a non random vote out already" Perhaps you could try to rectify those two statements, because they're not the same.

The second one you list is what I said first. I don't know how you have a serious vote out BECAUSE I don't know what it's for, which is the first you listed.

I am a huge proponent of "lynch all millers,"

Why?

[Kmd4390]

TSQ,

What is the correct play for a miller then? And whenever I've seen an unprovoked miller claim, it's always been a real miller. That's all been offsite though, so I guess your PoV has more merit here.

[Kmd4390]

I dont policy lynch millers. I lynch based on behaviour. If you are scummy you die. This isnt about general meta. This is about this game.

This. Exactly this.

DGB, why don't you think a dayvig scum is plausible? Ask Farside if it's plausible. It was MY ROLE in her futurama game.

Also, is there a case on Farside? I know that at least TSQ has said she is his number one suspect and now Zwet just threw her name out as scum. Is there a reason for this?

[Kmd4390]

DGB, why don't you think a dayvig scum is plausible? Ask Farside if it's plausible. It was MY ROLE in her futurama game.

It's not very likely, still.

Why?

I don't think our mod is farside, KMD.

My point is that outguessing the Mod is never a good idea.

[Kmd4390]

Yeah, an unprovoked fakeclaim. And nothing to give us from it?

Interesting move...

[Kmd4390]

Vote Zwet

Ideally, I would like to see him dead before he gets to post again, just in case he is a scum dayvig. I am 100% serious about this.

This is a good point. If he's scum dayvig, I don't want to give him a chance to shoot a townie.

DGB is my second suspect right now.

[Kmd4390]

Mod, you have me voting both Zwet and Camn. I am currently voting Zwet

DGB, what makes you so sure Zwet isn't a dayvig?

Votecount fixed, again. -OGML

[Kmd4390]

Martyr? Pretty sure what you described is a bodyguard...

[Kmd4390]

DGB, you say Zwet has fakeclaimed as town. I believe you. But what makes you think he wouldn't do it as scum and try to pass it off as something he does as town. Especially with you and Tajo in the game to defend it.

Also, I've played a game with Jebus. Kirby mafia. He lurked and accomplished nothing. Ended up being mislynched (on Day 2?). I don't expect much from Jebus.

[Kmd4390]

I'm keeping my vote on Zwet. I still think he is the most suspicious player in the game.

[Kmd4390]

Lynch him or not, I will not tolerate a QUICKLYNCH on day one, and we must discuss alternative lynches. Day 1 is the most informative day of all. We're not letting the scum rob us of it. Not on my watch.

Huh? Do you seriously believe this? You seriously would discuss 'alternative lynches' to a 100% bona-fide scum player on day one just to "get more information?" Are you trolling?

Because that's a really stupid way to think. Who cares about "information" on day one?

What does that even mean?

DGB is making sense here. When Day 1 turns into a quick lynch, we have almost nothing for Day 2. You can always look at the lynch wagon, but that's about it.

[Kmd4390]

So the case on Sam is not caring about information? And the case on TSQ is that he's intentionally ignoring good logic?

I honestly don't think scum would come right out and say something like what Sam did just because of alignment. The argument on TSQ though, I can buy. Still think a Zwet lynch is better, but if that's not going to happen, I'm prepared to switch to TSQ.

[Kmd4390]

This is why I am keeping my vote on Zwet.

[Kmd4390]

Sam, Day 1 is where you get your biggest read on players. Yeah, more can come later. But Day 1 is far more important than people usually think it is. For example, when people say Day 1 is a shot in the dark, I attack them for it. We get a lot from Day 1.

[Kmd4390]

Vote: DrippingGoofBall

Not on my watch

...

....Day 1 is the most informative day of all. We're not letting the scum rob us of it.

Not on my watch

.

Interesting. Scum using code? Checking actions taken by both players following both posts.

Vote: farside

You're not dead yet, you must be scum!

That's a FACT.

Vote: farside

Zwet's "Not on my watch" was in the RVS. DGB followed Caboose in voting Farside.

Unvote; Vote: TSQ

He knows my meta also.

Zwet's next move was a TSQ vote. There may actually be something here. DGB has been defending Zwet pretty hardcore and even gave him a chance to claim mason earlier.

And no, I'm not claiming scum. The slip was him trying to pretend to know I was scum, which he would only have been able to know if he was scum. In other words, he's attempting to use his scum knowledge to incriminate me, but at the same time revealing his true identity.

Nice try, scum.

what do you expect from a Red Sox fan?

"HAHAHA WE ARE AWESOME!!! HAHAHAHAHA! WE'RE RIGHT YOU'RE WRONG. I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE SAYING BUT I DON'T CARE. YOU'RE STILL WRONG! HURHURHUR!"

(Sorry. You asked.)

[Kmd4390]

blah blah blah secret code

I don't believe there was a night 0, because my choice didn't count. You'd have to think that the scum was allowed to talk during Night 0 for this sort of communication to take place during the day. Ask the mod if the scum was allowed to talk Night 0. If they weren't, you'll have to find some other way to find scum.

Scum can sometimes talk during confirmations.

ARGH. Listen! He's scum, so he thought it would be a good idea to incriminate a townie. So he said that he was 100% sure I was scum. He intended to say he thought I was scum, but instead, he said he was 100% sure, which could only come from a Mafia. That, my friends, is a Freudian slip.

You are burying yourself. If he slipped in saying he was sure you were scum, why would he have taken the time to think "Hmm. I'm going to incriminate Zwet by slipping"?

Um, I never claimed to have any inside information. I only said zwet was scum.

He claims you slipped when you said you were sure he was scum.

[Kmd4390]

Howzabout we lynch sam today and I protect DGB. That way, in the morning after people try to NK DGB, I'll be dead and confirmed, and DGB can

bus

TSQ.

The bolded is one of at least 3 things wrong with this post.

[Kmd4390]

Or get mad at/ get a case on/ daycop investigate/ insert kill scum action here.

What made you choose bussing as the action originally?

If you think DGB could bus, why would she, as scum, be targeted at night, by the scum, leaving you to be killed? Why would the scum target DGB if they knew you were protecting her?

[Kmd4390]

What made you choose bussing as the action originally?

If you think DGB could bus, why would she, as scum, be targeted at night, by the scum, leaving you to be killed?

[Kmd4390]

Why did you use the term then? What did you think it meant when you used it?

[Kmd4390]

Actually means pushing a case on a scumbuddy.

Why would the scum target DGB if they knew you were protecting her?

Because DGB is nuts and scum don't know if I'm telling the truth or not.

Still don't like this answer.

[Kmd4390]

Umm.

What just happened? Dayvig who doesn't have to post kills in thread?

[Kmd4390]

Jebus is being wagoned strictly for lurking?

[Kmd4390]

Jebus is being wagoned strictly for lurking?

If you look at my post you'll find that I made a case against Jebus earlier on.

You did. But others, mainly Xyl, are only voting him for lurking.

[Kmd4390]

Jebus is being wagoned strictly for lurking?

If you look at my post you'll find that I made a case against Jebus earlier on.

You did. But others, mainly Xyl, are only voting him for lurking.

You say that like it's a bad thing.

Well if that's true, the same case could apply to a few other people. Why not mention Counselwolf, stark, qwints, sam, farside, or crywolf?

[Kmd4390]

So many posts in such a short amount of time. Catching up now.

[Kmd4390]

hascow, I don't see why anyone should claim the kill on Zwet. It's pretty powerful if they don't have to post in thread to kill during the day. That's not a role that we want exposed.

TSQ, overreaction much? (about being accused of bussing farside)

I've seen that Camn likes to go after lurkers as town. The game we played together, she kept screaming, "Lurker scum team!". And she actually ended up being probably the only person in the game who was right about the scum. But yeah, she does go after lurkers as town.

I don't like Xyl not reading the full thread when replacing in. Town should always read everything to get a good read on everyone. Scum only need a feel for the game, so they don't need to read every little thing like town should.

Xyl, why did your read on sam change from scum to town?

Scot calling camn scum for going after lurkers is interesting. Maybe he doesn't know her meta though. And I can see where scum would go after lurkers. And he has been defending Jebus, so I can see this.

The DGB calls camn "unbelievably town". I don't see where you are getting this from. Sure, she doesn't look too scummy right now. But unbelievably town? Why?

Ok, guess that got answered already:

She has a list of reasons that I can appreciate, and she's pretty brazen about it. Not likely scum at all.

Makes sense.

camn, if Jebus is replaced, why does his replacement have explaining to do regarding his lurking?

Stop jumping off a perfectly good lurker wagon just because someone does something a little bit scummy.

Wait, what?

I generally nightkill people I am mad at. It feels good.

I enjoy revenge more.

If I die N1, I'll know who did it. XD

Stark, do you have a case on Caboose?

It like arguing about who sucks between the Yanks and the Red Sox.. There is simply no evidence that EITHER option is untrue.

Actually, I'd go the other way on this one. As much as I hate the Red Sox, both teams are actually GOOD TEAMS. Therefore, neither team technically "sucks".

[Kmd4390]

Qwints PBPA:

Post 0 (I've always wondered why the first post is listed as 0...): Joke votes Farside
Post 1: Joke FoS's Zwet.
Post 2: Cites lynch all liars. Votes Zwet "Are you fucking serious?"
Post 3: Unvotes after Zwet's claim and Caboose's softclaim
Post 4: Votes Sam "This must be the most anti-town post I've ever seen."
Post 5: "I don't like scotmany defending jesus. Let him come defend himself."
Post 6: "He doesn't want a town power role nk'd on night 1."
Post 7: "I'm intrigued by the resistance to people voting Jebus. Let's make him post or replace out." Votes Jebus
Post 8: Says we can't get much from Zwet's wagon.

My analysis:
The joke vote/FoS don't mean much of anything. If Qwints or Farside is scum, it's a very minor point against the other, but that's about it.

His Zwet vote sticks out to me. He showed extreme confidence in his vote but wasn't nearly as vocal about it as others (Yos, TSQ). He backed off in his next post after the claim and after Caboose's softclaim. If he is scum, he knows Zwet to be telling the truth. And either he knows Caboose to be telling the truth or he knows Caboose to be a scumbuddy. Basically, he looks like scum hoping he gets townie points later for knowing when to back off.

Next post is the same kind of vote, this time on Sam. Short and sweet. Sounds confident. Doesn't push a case.

Small jab at Scot for defending Jebus. If Qwints is scum, I may look at Scot as a partner.

Post 6 states the obvious townie response to hascow's rolefishing. Searching for more townie points.

Joins the largest wagon again with Jebus. Easy target again. Confident sounding short post again. And no push again.

Next he says that not a lot will come from analyzing Zwet's wagon. Makes me think he doesn't want us looking at the wagon for some reason. Maybe he realized that the way he backed off looked more scummy than protown? Maybe his buddies were on the wagon? Whatever the reason, he seems to want us looking elsewhere. To avoid misquoting, here is exactly what he said:

I find it hard to believe that zwet's antics will provide much useful information at this point.

Vote Qwints

[Kmd4390]

No. Nameless voted Charter and Zazie/Stef quickhammered for the scum win. But yeah, you called Zazie/Stef/Rishi all lurkerscum and they were.

I think most would unvote if Jebus got replaced. DGB being the only exception off the top of my head. I think everyone else is just lurkervoting, not thinking Jebus is scum.

[Kmd4390]

Well I'm on my home computer which is slow so I'm in lazy mode, but I should respond to hascow's case. Doing that now.

(Note that just because I'm posting in lazy mode doesn't mean that A)I've read everything else or B)My response will be lazy.)

[Kmd4390]

Sorry for slow response time. IMs and phone and all.

I already mentioned that this was weird, but looking at it closer, I find it really weird. Why is he making a "joke comment" that only one other person can understand? Feels like buddying to me. Plus, calling that role fishing, even as a joke, doesn't make sense to me.

That's just my RVS style. I do it in pretty much every game I play with people who have been in other games I've enjoyed.

Already commented on this, but I will again, since I'm going through kmd. Commenting on someone's serious vote feels off to me, and I don't understand why kmd felt it necessary to ask how he has a serious vote out.

Looked like TSQ was trying to get the game started. An explanation seemed helpful at the early stage of the game.

This as the explanation for him asking the question in his post 7 doesn't sit right with me. Expecting a reason behind

every

serious vote seems scum-motivated to me.

Nice strawman. I wanted a reason for a vote that looked like it was made to start discussion. I fail to see how that's "every" serious vote.

Adding the "not sure I would have included the vig part though" seems unnecessary to me. Why do you feel the need to add that? Seems like just making an inane comment that does nothing with regards to believing him or not

You're right that it has nothing to do with believing him. I just didn't see a need to fullclaim. At the time, there was no reason to think he was fakeclaiming as town. Sure, claim miller. You won't get investigated and then have to claim. No reason to waste a cop's investigation just to claim miller. But fullclaiming and including the vig part makes you a NK target. That's why if the claim were true, he'd have to use his kill today. That's why whoever killed him doesn't need to claim. [/Subtle hint]

This does absolutely nothing. Again, it's just a comment about what happened and not actually trying to draw anything from it or trying to say anything.

I was frustrated that he fakeclaimed. Not sure what more you want.

Now kmd

jumps on the zwet wagon

after seeing that it's going quite fast. He had one of the earliest chances to vote for zwet after the fakeclaim, but decided to not take sides. Now he takes sides after seeing that it's popular. I don't like that.

Um. I'm pretty sure the vote is a small sign of which side I was taking.

This also seems to do absolutely nothing for the game. Seems like this comment is just designed to bring unnecessary attention to the name of zwet's role, since the same role can have different names with different mods, flavor, etc.

Well I'd never seen it called martyr. I'm pretty sure Zwet has played offsite and I thought maybe it was a fakeclaim of a role with a different name on that site. I once got caught claiming "Super Saint" on SA where the role is called "Lynch Bomb" (I was a bomb and didn't want to fullclaim on the offchance I'd eventually be NK'd but that's a different story), so I thought I may have had a similar catch here.

I don't like how you mention that there are at least 3 things wrong with the post, but only point out one of them. Why not point out the others?

Are you even reading this game? Serious question.

I pointed out the other things wrong with it maybe 2 or 3 posts later in the back and forth I had with Zwet just before his death.

This is an analysis of qwints, followed by a vote, but I don't really know why qwints is being voted for. There's analysis, but no conclusions. Seems like trying to look like a case is being made, but I don't see one. Why are you voting for qwints?

Look at the analysis. It basically IS a conclusion. The case is there.

kmd seems to be making a lot of inane comments that look like they're contributions when they're actually not. The case on qwints seems pretty similar in that it's supposed to look like a case, but just seems to be making little comments on his posts, followed by a vote. I don't actually know why he's voting for qwints.
Then there's him jumping on the zwet wagon really late after everyone else did, even though if he actually found what zwet did scummy, he had an chance 5 hours before. I find it unlikely that he changed his mind from it being not scummy to scummy in that period of time. I think he just jumped on because he wouldn't get a lot of flak for it.
Because of that and because I want some answers, vote: kmd

Seriously, read. There is a case on Qwints. I was NOT late on Zwet. Read the game.

[Kmd4390]

The word "fag" in the tags was inintentional. Just noticed it. Sorry.

[Kmd4390]

Well, yes, obviously, but you're not actually answering my point. You had an earlier chance immediately after zwet took back his fakeclaim. Why didn't you vote for him then? Why did you instead wait until a bunch of other people had jumped on?

Reading in context will do wonders for you. I thought I'd wait and see if he had anything to explain. Then Yos pointed out the possibility of Zwet being scum dayvig. It sounded both plausible and dangerous. So I wanted him lynched immediately.

Why didn't you mention the others in this post?

I wanted to see if other people saw the same things I did. But then Zwet responded and because he was online, I continued to question him and eventually pointed out the others. Then he got vidged. That's ok though. I was just about done with questioning him about that post anyway.

Could you restate the main points in your case on qwints? I'm still not seeing them.

487...

Hokai, guys, I've played a lot more games in IRC than PBP, so I'm just gonna go ahead and convert the game thus far so as to understand it better.

WIN.

I'm a big fan of reading the last 3 pages and jumping right in, then catching up gradually.

You miss things that way... I did it once on SA, but the game was on page 70+ and they have 40 posts per page. Actually, I read about half of Day 1 and the Day just before I replaced in. But still. I missed a lot.

Class in 8 minutes. I've read up until Camn's opinion post. That's the post where I say "This is too long. I don't have time." I'll get to it tonight.

[Kmd4390]

Well... Camn says she's biased on me and I think I feel the same with her. I see her massively buddying up to Yos with the "legend" comment, but one of my points against her in Tranquility was buddying up to Rishi early in the game. Remember that she was town... I don't even know what tells to look for with her because I was so wrong on her in the other game. =/

Qwints is only reinforcing my thoughts on him by jumping on the latest popular wagon with Cow. And guess what? He did it in the same way he did with Zwet and Jebus when those wagons were popular.

Sam looks good with the lurker opinions, but when it comes to actual specific players, he's no better than Qwints. If Qwints weren't so scummy, I'd probably vote Sam. The lurker opinions look more like trying to look active without giving actual thoughts. And when he does drop an opinion, he can't be bothered to back it.

Camn, I have to ask. You call TSQ scummy. He asks why. You answer. Why do you need the disclaimer, "For clarity.. this post should not be construed as a 'case' against TSQ" at the end. Giving reasons why a player is scummy IS a case. Why are you seperating yourself from calling it that?

Mod

, the vote count shows my vote on Qwints and the other 2 votes as seperate wagons.

I don't see why Caboose needs to be uestioned about the "softclaim"?

Hey camn. Wanna use Zwet to see if my Gambit (actually an analysis strategy more than a Gambit when I use it like this) works better on a confirmed town wagon? hasdgfas, Thestatusquo, Yosarian2, scotmany12, sam.samhorn, Kmd4390. Those were the Zwet voters. (Actually, at quick glance, Qwints, Caboose, and Cow all were voting Zwet at one point too.) I bet we can find an experienced scum or 2 or maybe even 3 on this wagon. Qwints, Yos, TSQ would be my top choices. Cow and Scot are meh as well. So yeah, I'm doing this again based on the simple fact that Zwet was town. Stef being scum ruined the hell out of it last time. I'm gonna piss off Camn here and say this: My analysis strategy reinforces my scum read on Qwints. It also reinforces any suspicion I may get on any of these players later.

[Kmd4390]

TSQ, if you read closer, I say Sam's "looking good" looks like an act because he is only looking good as far as the lurker discussion.

And there is no "but" about you, Yos, and Qwints. Way to try and make my suspicions look less like suspicions.

FoS TSQ

(I rarely use that, but I'm not unvoting Qwints)

[Kmd4390]

So yeah, I'm doing this again based on the simple fact that Zwet was town. Stef being scum ruined the hell out of it last time.

You mention right in the attack that the only other time you tried this you were completely wrong.

I tried it BEFORE a lynch took place when Camn was the ONLY one to jump on the case. And the target was scum. I failed as miserably as possible.

The difference?

Zwet was town. There was a good sized wagon.

I am much more confident this time than I should have been last time.

[Kmd4390]

Post #618 has a distinctive, unconcerned 'thinking out loud' quality that I've come to associate with townies.

I'll be honest. I can post that way as both town and scum. Not to try and change your opinion of me, but if you look for meta on me, you'll notice that.

[Kmd4390]

The reason for my disclaimer is that I don't want people thinking I am pushing a case on TSQ RIGHT NOW. I am not. Unless something changes radically, I think he is a bad lynch today. Thus, the disclaimer. He asked for it though.

Do you think he is more likely town or scum?

ANd your gambit doesn't apply... because it wasn't a crap-case. it was real scumminess that started the zwet wagon. Real scumminess garners townies and clever scum equally.
YOUR gambit was based on a CRAP-case drawing scum in, no?

My Gambit was run BEFORE a lynch so the case had to have some holes. Not crap case, but some holes. My case on Stef in the other game wasn't crap. It actually turned out to be a case on scum. Because this is on a dead townie, and not a living player of unknown alignment, it's safe to assume it's an appealing wagon to scum. Scum love scummy townies. I'd be shocked if not a single scum took the opportunity to vote Zwet. We have a dead townie. We should use that information properly, and I think this is a good start.

[Kmd4390]

Post #618 has a distinctive, unconcerned 'thinking out loud' quality that I've come to associate with townies.

I'll be honest. I can post that way as both town and scum. Not to try and change your opinion of me, but if you look for meta on me, you'll notice that.

^^^^^
Weirdest post. EVER.

I know it's weird, but still... Just sayin'.

[Kmd4390]

I agree with DGB's logic.

Also Qwints' last post makes me think even more that he had buddies on Zwet's wagon.

[Kmd4390]

I say we give cowscum a 5 minute break while we steer qwintsscum to the slaughterhouse (notice the cattle puns?). We have qwintscum's attention now, let's milk it for all its worth, haha.

I don't have any beef with these cattle puns, but they are utterly useless.










Am I doing it right?

[Kmd4390]

Scum wouldnt post this.

unvote

Caboose vouching for zwet combined w/ zwet claiming bodyguard means I don't want to lynch zwet today.

They wouldn't want townie points knowing Zwet will flip town?

[Kmd4390]

Scum wouldnt post this.

unvote

Caboose vouching for zwet combined w/ zwet claiming bodyguard means I don't want to lynch zwet today.

They wouldn't want townie points knowing Zwet will flip town?

It was too early to leave a perfect wagon.

Sure about that?

[Kmd4390]

Scum wouldnt post this.

unvote

Caboose vouching for zwet combined w/ zwet claiming bodyguard means I don't want to lynch zwet today.

They wouldn't want townie points knowing Zwet will flip town?

It was too early to leave a perfect wagon.

Sure about that?

Also, thoughts on Caboose/Cow leaving the wagon?

[Kmd4390]

Tajo, when a townie is lynched, there's usually a good chance of finding scum on the wagon. Decent lynch or not, scum want to see mislynches. They'll push what they think is the best one.

Caboose left the wagon before Qwints claiming role-based info (which is the reason Qwints used for leaving the wagon). I think Cow left it later, but don't quote me on that just yet. I'll check.

[Kmd4390]

I think Cow left it later, but don't quote me on that just yet. I'll check.

Ok, Cow didn't leave the wagon. My bad.

[Kmd4390]

I wonder if Kmd is reading this game.

What makes you wonder about this?

[Kmd4390]

2. Qwintscum would have left the wagon but with what purpose? Nobody would have given him shit for pushing such a perfect wagon.

(shrug) Very often, around day 3 or 4, people go back, see who was on each bandwagon at lynch, and compare who was on which townie wagons to who was on which scum wagons. For that reason, scum often don't like actually having their vote on a townie wagon at the moment it goes to a lynch, or at least not to have that happen too often.

I know what you're saying, but I don't think the behavior would be unlikely for qwints-scum.

I agree with Yosarian2.

Caboose left the wagon before Qwints claiming role-based info (which is the reason Qwints used for leaving the wagon). I think Cow left it later, but don't quote me on that just yet. I'll check.

OK, never mind.

I just wondered why you asked someone else thoughts about my leaving the zwet wagon.

Oh, I know how it happened. I'm curious what Tajo's opinions on it are in comparison to Qwints leaving the wagon.

[Kmd4390]

The problem is, reading over qwints' posts now, it is almost the only good pro-town post he's made all game. (the only other one that looks even slightly pro-town to me is when he jumped on the jeebs wagon)

Pretty sure he's jumped every popular wagon except his own and TSQ's.

[Kmd4390]

@KMD, I think its pretty safe to assume that Caboose isn't scum also. Scum stopping such a perfect D1 townie wagon its improbable, IMO.

So you think both are town strictly because they jumped off the wagon?

[Kmd4390]

@KMD, I think its pretty safe to assume that Caboose isn't scum also. Scum stopping such a perfect D1 townie wagon its improbable, IMO.

So you think both are town strictly because they jumped off the wagon?

No. I think they both have more probs of being town for jumping off a wagon that was so perfect for scum.

Ok. I can see your reasoning there. Still disagree about Qwints, but I at least can follow what you are saying.

[Kmd4390]

I say we give cowscum a 5 minute break while we steer qwintsscum to the slaughterhouse (notice the cattle puns?). We have qwintscum's attention now, let's milk it for all its worth, haha.

I don't have any beef with these cattle puns, but they are utterly useless.

Am I doing it right?

WRONG. It's udderly useless.

unvote

Curious about this...

[Kmd4390]

TSQ really didn't need to be replaced, but he's already made up his mind I guess. We'll see how the replacement is...

Not sure why people seem so anti-DGB. I'm actually liking reading her posts. I had a scum vibe on her early, but I like what I see so far. TBH, she's amusing too.

Caboose's softclaim is null because it gave no more info than needed. Qwints' was scummy because of the defeatist attitude and the way he looks like he's trying to get out of a lynch with it.

(although I still think that no one should EVER claim vanillia, under ANY circumstances).

What should a real vanilla claim in your opinion? (Actual theory question because I've never heard this and you are a respectable player)

[Kmd4390]

Isn't a refusal to claim basically a vanilla claim anyway then?

[Kmd4390]

I think qwints has vanished, responding not at all to any questions of mine.

Of course he has. There is a wagon on him atm.

[Kmd4390]

Yes, I soft claimed vanilla.

It was designed to illustrate that soft claiming need not be anti-town.

...

confirm vote:qwints

This. I agree with Yos.

[Kmd4390]

In other news, I'm not feeling the qwints wagon much.

Why?

[Kmd4390]

In other news, I'm not feeling the qwints wagon much.

Why?

Unprovoked Day 1 vanilla soft ice cream, not scummy much. Also, this post: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 07#1494507

This being said, he's been pretty useless, he may be lurkerish scum, so meh.

Hmm. Decent points. I think the bad outweighs the good though.

[Kmd4390]

Vote Count:

9 to lynch

qwints: 7 (Kmd4390, Thestatusquo,

DrippingGoofball,

farside22, Yosarian2, camn, Xylthixlm)

DGB unvoted. It's actually L-3.

Vote Count fixed. -OGML

[Kmd4390]

In other news, I'm not feeling the qwints wagon much.

Why?

Unprovoked Day 1 vanilla soft ice cream, not scummy much. Also, this post: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 07#1494507

This being said, he's been pretty useless, he may be lurkerish scum, so meh.

Hmm. Decent points. I think the bad outweighs the good though.

What are the bad things? (I feel like Im asking you this in every game, LOL)

Did you read the post where I voted him? Or his last (I think) post?

[Kmd4390]

Kore's no voting thing is anti-town. Not worth voting over though. Xyl's vote on Kore is anti-town. Also not worth voting. What Qwints has done this game is scummy because it is specific to this game.

The one thing about Xyl that does stand out is this:

Noting for future reference: It's really suspicious how Kore dropped that at the perfect time to derail the qwints wagon.

As Scot pointed out, Xyl was the ONLY one to vote Kore. Xyl has also blown it up to be hotter discussion than anything about Qwints. So not only does this start to derail the wagon, but it makes it look like Kore's fault.

About Jeebes: You don't think posting "I'm still here, am trying to catch up" stall messages, doing them just barely often enough to not get replaced, and nothing, else, is scummy?

I've seen him fluff post as town before

[Kmd4390]

Plus, TSQ cried and ran off.

Haha TSQ is the kid who gets picked on.

[Kmd4390]

Kore, the only way not voting helps you is if you are scum. No one can look at your voting records that way. It hurts the town because we get no read on you. And I think Xyl mentioned this, but if everyone were to adopt that style, it would wreck any chance of lynching scum. The only discussion it generates is whether or not you should be lynched. If you are town, that's not helpful. And we have plenty of other discussion going, no? Qwints for example.

[Kmd4390]

But is it not ideal for THIS game to lay a vote on a scummy player?

[Kmd4390]

Korejora.....

Considering we ran Zwet up to a lynch.. and then he died..... isn't it kind of like this is actually day 2? Only there were no night actions?

So couldn't you, without violating your ethics, actually lay a vote down...since it is just

technically

still day 1?

I agree with this. We have information from Zwet's flip.

[Kmd4390]

I want to lynch moar qwints.

Then why did you unvote?

[Kmd4390]

Your case on Kore was unconvincing.

[Kmd4390]

I fail to see how the case against qwints is better than the case against Kore.

Qwints is scummy. Kore just has a bad Day 1 strategy in every game.

[Kmd4390]

You were both voting Qwints before. Why does Jebus have to be the compromise?

[Kmd4390]

I think it should be obvious that Qwints is my preference.

[Kmd4390]

I agree with Scot and Sam. Voting Jebus is a waste of time.

[Kmd4390]

I agree with Scot and Sam. Voting Jebus is a waste of time.

That's rich coming from you, since you're voting qwints.

Just sayin'

I actually brought points against Qwints. Of the Jebus voters, you are the only one who seems to genuinely think he is scum.

Just sayin'

[Kmd4390]

Who said anything about lynching?

My vote goes off of him when he posts something useful.

So if he never posted anything useful, would you lynch him?

Yes

Interesting.

Why isn't there more votes on me I've been too quiet this game.

Are you planning on changing that?

[Kmd4390]

So anyone notice how the Qwints wagon conveniently derailed when Xyl went after Kore partially for derailing the Qwints wagon?

[Kmd4390]

Actions speak louder than words

[Kmd4390]

@ Camn:

Actions speak louder than words

[Kmd4390]

Caboose, Tar, Farside, Stark, Kore, Rogue- Who is scummier? Qwints or Cow?

[Kmd4390]

You're voting Tar.

[Kmd4390]

Caboose, Tar, Farside, Stark, Kore, Rogue- Who is scummier? Qwints or Cow?

What's the case against qwints again?

If you were paying attention, you'd know. Go through my post history and see where I quote the original and add a couple of points. That's my latest case on him.

[Kmd4390]

Caboose, Tar, Farside, Stark, Kore, Rogue- Who is scummier? Qwints or Cow?

What's the case against qwints again?

If you were paying attention, you'd know. Go through my post history and see where I quote the original and add a couple of points. That's my latest case on him.

Ok. About how sure are you in regards to qwints. 86-93%?

I wish I could be THAT sure in a mafia game with no extra information. I'm about 10-15% sure. Far more sure than I am on any other player, hence the vote.

[Kmd4390]

What exactly is the case on Stark?

[Kmd4390]

Ok.

Stark's posts:
Starts off asking DGB and TSQ if they are scum. "Confirms" both and asks for top scum suspects. It's still early, so I consider this acceptable.

Tells Zwet to use his kill today. If he was really a vig, that would have been optimal play.

Asks for ideas on who Zwet should vig. Reasonable question.

Ok, here's a scummy post. Fence-sits on DGB vs TSQ, rolefishes Jebus, and calls Caboose scummy with no case.

Promises to catch up.

Asks what the case on Qwints is. I'd say scummy because I'd posted it twice, but if he was genuinely having a hard time catching up, it's understandable. This point comes down to, "Is his lurking strategical or is he having a hard time keeping up?"

Asks how sure I am about Qwints. Again, I can see this as either a town or scum tell.

Asks for a Qwints claim. See above (same as asking for the case on Qwints).

Last post, he's frustrated that he's being wagoned. I disagree about Day 1 having no leads, but I've seen far too many players honestly believe this to consider it scummy.

So, the case on him if I'm not mistaken:
-fence-sitting DGB vs TSQ.
-rolefishing on Jebus
-calling out Caboose with no case
-lurking

The first two could have reasonable explanations. I'd still like to know why he was suspicious of Caboose. That combined with lurking, well TBH, I don't think that's enough for me to want to lynch Stark over.

Conclusion: I will vote Stark if needed to avoid No Lynch (no majority at deadline is No Lynch), but I would much rather lynch Qwints than Stark.

Also, happy scumday OGML.

[Kmd4390]

I'm sorry...what separates stark from qwints?

The solid case on Qwints.

I have the setting checked where Post #1 is at the top of every page... and it clearly states who replaced who. Maybe you should try that?

How do you do that?

I'm sorry...what separates stark from qwints?

Has continued to avoid contributing while in jeopardy of being lynched.

Qwints didn't do that?

[Kmd4390]

Found it.

[Kmd4390]

I'm sorry...what separates stark from qwints?

Has continued to avoid contributing while in jeopardy of being lynched.

Pretty sure qwints has done that too.

No, qwints has been around. And stark contributed less sensible content than qwints, which, given that stark is capable of much better, is no mean feat.

Read his posts in the last 10 days and tell me if you still think that he has contributed sensible content.

[Kmd4390]

stark is ahead in the count. Curiously, some players find him worth defending. Why, when stark himself feels differently?

Because Qwints is a much better lynch.

Stark only has a few minor points against him.

[Kmd4390]

Tarhalindur: What does IIoA stand for?

Information instead of analysis.

Um Camn...How is stark confirmed?

I think she was being sarcastic. Sam "guaranteed" that Stark was town. Btw, I think that's Sam's opinion, not a softclaim.

[Kmd4390]

yosarian-
I obviously support a qwints lynch... But i feel like
a) we are getting more information from pressuring stark

The only way I see this is Qwints is vanilla while Stark has yet to claim. So this "information" only helps scum. If you mean wagon analyzing, we can get just as much information from either lynch. Also, Qwints is scummier.

Sam, why is Camn your new number two suspect?

[Kmd4390]

Warning! The post you are about to see quoted is scummy.

So I'm scum because other people are dense?

Let's go with "You're scum because of your callous disregard for how your joke would be interpreted".

Really? Making a joke and not realizing people will take it seriously is something that only scum do now? Really? Are you being serious right now?

Also, seriously guys. If you can't tell that Stark has been joking A LOT, there's something wrong.

[Kmd4390]

Really? Making a joke and

not

realizing people will take it seriously

but posting it anyways

is something that

only

scum do now?

Yes.

Um.

Why'd you cross out the word "only" if it's a scumtell?

But if you think he honestly EXPECTED that people would take it seriously and posted it anyway, how is THAT a scumtell?

Let's break this down. He has a joke. People will probably take it seriously. What's the expected result? Suspicion. Why would any non-jester role purposefully attract suspicion. And why would scum specifically do it? Or do you think he had another motive for it aside from attracting suspicion?

Basically, I don't follow you here.

[Kmd4390]

Really? Making a joke and

not

realizing people will take it seriously

but posting it anyways

is something that

only

scum do now?

Yes.

Um.

Why'd you cross out the word "only" if it's a scumtell?

But if you think he honestly EXPECTED that people would take it seriously and posted it anyway, how is THAT a scumtell?

Let's break this down. He has a joke. People will probably take it seriously. What's the expected result? Suspicion. Why would any non-jester role purposefully attract suspicion. And why would scum specifically do it? Or do you think he had another motive for it aside from attracting suspicion?

Basically, I don't follow you here.

I think we've just established that a lot of people will give anything a free pass if they think it's a joke. If he could get the votes off him long enough for another bandwagon to build, and then later wave it off as a joke, that would be pretty good for him. Worst case? Some people unvote him and then revote, and everyone else says "it was just a joke, it's not scummy".

I disagree. If I say "I'm scum haha just kidding", nobody is going to call me town for it. They are going to go, "Why the hell did you need to say that" and I'd probably get a few votes for it.

So, a 12 year old boy walks into a whorehouse, dragging a dead frog on a string...

I lol'd.

Dear Santa,

This year, I've tried to be a good boy. I've done all my chores, and I've only lied once or twice. I've been working hard, and I got an A on my last spelling test! Isn't that great?

This year, if you don't think it'd be too much to ask, could you kill Xythl for me? He's mean and humorless, and I don't think that's very nice. He's also trying to get all the other kids to vote for me, which isn't very nice either. I will be willing to put off the pony for a year or two if you can just do this for me.

What kind of cookies do you like?

Happy Holidays!,

Stark

Seriously though. Xyl is scummy.

VOTE QWINTS

Your turn.
I want to see an incredible rise in the quantity AND quality of your posts.. and I want to see it immediately.

Now, not that I have any problem with Qwints votes, but is this a "You are a lurker. Contribute and my vote is off" vote or is this a "You are scum diediediediediedie" vote? Or even a "You are a lurker, contribute OR diediediediedie" vote?

Hascow's play for the last few pages has been strange to say the least. The way he has attacked the most minor things people have done this game doesn't make sense to me. Can someone with a meta on him confirm whether he usually attacks like this or not.

Pretty much sums up my thoughts on the Cow. The only meta I have on him is an ongoing game.

Seriously, he is jumping on NOTHING. But it's so much of nothing that he can't honestly expect people to follow him. Maybe he's trying to look like he's contributing. And his case on me came out of nowhere just as he was being attacked. If the Qwints lynch won't happen, I can get on this one.

There is no reason for the starkwagon to have lost steam like it did.

Hascow, can you claim in a hurry so that we can go back to lynching stark?

Wasn't your major point that he wasn't contributing in comparison with Qwints? Do you still believe this?

[Kmd4390]

Hascow should prove his role tonight. The only purpose I know for a name cop is to find fakeclaims. I can't see how that's useful for scum. If he can prove his role tonight, I'll believe him.

Moar Qwints votes please.

[Kmd4390]

hey zwet, got any flavor backing for being a martyr/bodyguard?

I assume you were looking for a name claim with this post?

[Kmd4390]

So, can someone explain to me why hasdgfas' claim makes him town? Because I personally don't see it. Rolecops are very scum-fishy.[/img][/hr]

Name cops are different from role cops. If he can confirm it, it seems like a role that would be useless for scum.

[Kmd4390]

I'm here all night if we need an extra vote before deadline.

[Kmd4390]

Note that I'm still here and willing to vote Crywolf before deadline if needed.

[Kmd4390]

So, 29 hours until deadline. Hope we hear a response from crywolf about her wagon soon, especally since she's currently the leading wagon.

Wow and I was sitting here thinking it was 5 hours until deadline. My bad.

So anyway. Crywolf. I could agree with lynching her, but I'd prefer Qwints. She's probably second best of the 4 major wagons. I'd even put Xyl as scummier than Crywolf though. So basically, consider Crywolf my number 3 choice.

[Kmd4390]

I'm curious about why you suspect Xyl.

I'm willing to wait until tomorrow. Deadline is coming up and I don't want to bring a new case just before deadline. We may or may not get a lynch as it is.

[Kmd4390]

Tajo, yes I find Crywolf scummy.


Tajo/Caboose:
On Xyl,
-he should have caught up when replacing in. I guess if that's just something he does, it's null, but I didn't like it.
-Instead of looking for scum, he came in immediately after lurkers and only lurkers.
-He spent a lot of time (his first 50+ posts) just pushing Jebus for lurking instead of adding something else to the game.
-His whole Kore thing was a huge reach and completely derailed the near-lynch Qwints wagon.
-After briefly voting Qwints just to switch to Kore, he's been repeatedly defending him pretty hardcore on what he admits is "gut", then went back to Qwints because he "changed his mind". (Note that he switched to Stark VERY quickly.) Switches back to Qwints just to go back to Stark again a few posts later.
-Overdid the whole Stark is scummy for joking thing.
-And his post history is just FILLED with one-liners.

[Kmd4390]

Tajo, yes I find Crywolf scummy.


Tajo/Caboose:
On Xyl,
-he should have caught up when replacing in. I guess if that's just something he does, it's null, but I didn't like it.
-Instead of looking for scum, he came in immediately after lurkers and only lurkers.
-He spent a lot of time (his first 50+ posts) just pushing Jebus for lurking instead of adding something else to the game.
-His whole Kore thing was a huge reach and completely derailed the near-lynch Qwints wagon.
-After briefly voting Qwints just to switch to Kore,

he'd

been repeatedly defending him pretty hardcore on what he admits is "gut", then went back to Qwints because he "changed his mind". (Note that he switched to Stark VERY quickly.) Switches back to Qwints just to go back to Stark again a few posts later.
-Overdid the whole Stark is scummy for joking thing.
-And his post history is just FILLED with one-liners.

Edited for small fix.

[Kmd4390]

My vote will stay where it is until the deadline. I don't buy hasdgfas's claim.

Which would you most support? A Crywolf lynch, a Qwints lynch, or no lynch?

[Kmd4390]

Vote Xyl

I was going to vote Qwints today, but Xyl was my number 2.

Case is here for reference:

On Xyl,
-he should have caught up when replacing in. I guess if that's just something he does, it's null, but I didn't like it.
-Instead of looking for scum, he came in immediately after lurkers and only lurkers.
-He spent a lot of time (his first 50+ posts) just pushing Jebus for lurking instead of adding something else to the game.
-His whole Kore thing was a huge reach and completely derailed the near-lynch Qwints wagon.
-After briefly voting Qwints just to switch to Kore, he'd been repeatedly defending him pretty hardcore on what he admits is "gut", then went back to Qwints because he "changed his mind". (Note that he switched to Stark VERY quickly.) Switches back to Qwints just to go back to Stark again a few posts later.
-Overdid the whole Stark is scummy for joking thing.
-And his post history is just FILLED with one-liners.

DGB, why Rogue? And what is the case on Stark? Do you still believe he hasn't been contributing?

[Kmd4390]

KMD? I see your recap... but it doesn't seem like enough.

Point me to a stronger case.

[Kmd4390]

Did you guys really forget that fast? Xyl's double vote doesn't make him town. It just means DGB thought Xyl deserved a double vote.

[Kmd4390]

Hmm.

So now... either
a) TownCopCow and unknownTar
or
b) ScumCow and ScumTar.

Right?

That's my assumption.

So yeah... Xyl is about as confirmed as we have right now.

[Kmd4390]

Did you guys really forget that fast? Xyl's double vote doesn't make him town. It just means DGB thought Xyl deserved a double vote.

What? DGB can grant double vote powers?
Awww, why didnt you pick me?

By the way, zwet is in fact at -2 because I have the power to give someone an extra vote, and that person is currently voting for zwet.

Someone unvote zwet nao.

[Kmd4390]

Did you guys really forget that fast? Xyl's double vote doesn't make him town. It just means DGB thought Xyl deserved a double vote.

What? DGB can grant double vote powers?
Awww, why didnt you pick me?

By the way, zwet is in fact at -2 because I have the power to give someone an extra vote, and that person is currently voting for zwet.

Someone unvote zwet nao.

Shit, I totally forgot that.
I TOTALLY agree with Xyl being non confirmed.
So do you agree with DGB being prob town?

Well. It looks like the claim was true. And it seems more a town role than scum to give someone a double vote. So yeah. I can agree that DGB is probably town who thought Xyl was townie enough for a double vote. I still think Xyl is scum though.

[Kmd4390]

Look. If you want to look for scum in that wagon, let me narrow the field down for you.

Kmd4390, Yosarian2, crywolf20084

Any other player, and I'm blocking my ears singing to myself so as not to hear you.

Any reason why? Pushing Qwints hard maybe?

I get kmd as some of his post have been off to me.

Back this up please. (You probably have better meta on me than anyone having modded (3?) completed games I've played and one ongoing.)

I am indeed a vigilante-recruiting mason, or to be more accurate, a vigilante-mason recruiter. My role power was to recruit a group of

unconfirmed

masons, who have one vig kill between them, on night 1. Tarhalindur is one of them; I suggest the others keep their identities to themselves. Now that my ability has been used, I'm pretty much a vanilla townie.

How do we know this group is protown?

How do we know you are not a cult with a kill?

Basically this ^

[Kmd4390]

Sorry all. Marathon Day got all of my attention. I'll catch up this afternoon.

Unvote

because I've skimmed and seen a few people say that Xyl is nearly confirmed. I also see votes on me, so I'll address those when I'm caught up. So class then ketchup time.

[Kmd4390]

So sorry I didn't get to this game. I'll get to it tonight or tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

Well, for one, he is eventually going to have to name his mason buddies (he's already named one), and if they start coming up dead and cult...

Good point. That would be retarded for cult to do.

Okay. If the cult possibility is unlikely as more than one has said then I think the choice is pretty clear here.

Vote: KMD.

Got a case to go with this vote? Or am I supposed to defend with, "nuh-uh"?

I dont have the time to hunt for quotes. Yos is being pretty decent with his reasoning lately. KMD is just crazy going against Xyl and was a heavy supporter of the qwints wagon. Im basing my current decision in these facts.

Was my Xyl case unreasonable at the time I presented it? The Qwints thing, I can see why you would think that. Scum on the wagon seems likely. So I can't say much more to that than you're wrong.

Also, do you expect bad reasoning from Yos as scum? The game is ongoing (I'm dead), but I recently saw him flip scum in another game and was shocked.

KMD
stark
Jebus

Looks like the scumteam to me.

Why? And why did you remove Farside?

NOW.. I eliminate all CONFIRMED townies. I also eliminate DGB for having double-vote power. I eliminate Xly for being a mason-recruiter. I eliminate myself as obvtown, and HasCow as namecop.

Why did you remove yourself?

• qwints -- Kmd4390, Yosarian2, camn
  zwet -- Thestatusquo, Yosarian2, scotmany12, sam.samhorn, Kmd4390
  cow -- scotmany12, sam.samhorn, farside22, populartajo, Tarhalindur
  wolf -- populartajo, Yosarian2, stark, Tarhalindur, farside22, camn

Before reading your stuff, I want to point out who was on how many wagons.

Yos-3 (Qwints, Zwet, Crywolf)
TSQ/Tar-3 (Zwet, Cow, Crywolf)
scot-2 (Zwet, Cow)
camn-2 (Qwints, Crywolf)
sam-(Zwet, Cow)
Kmd- 2 (Qwints, Zwet)
Tajo-2(Cow, Crywolf)
farside-1 (Cow)
Stark-1 (Crywolf)

Yos and TSQ/Tar are on 3 of these wagons.

Now.. we see the 2 people on the qwints wagon. I assume at LEAST scum got on that wagon..... so one of those 2 = scum.
Then I notice that Yosarian is on 3 townie-wagons. I ask myself.. would THE Yosarian2 allow himself to be on 3 townie wagons in one day? For now, no.

Using that logic, to me, Yos has to be scum. I'm not going to say, "Hey, Yos voted for Qwints. He's scum.", but it's a place to look. And just because he is "THE Yosarian2" doesn't mean he gets away with everything. If Yos is scum, I wouldn't be shocked to see you as a partner.

Let us also notice that KMD AVOIDED being on the crywolf wagon, though he EXCELLENTLY fence-sat here:

Note that I'm still here and willing to vote Crywolf before deadline if needed.

I was only going to vote her over no lynch. I wanted Qwints lynched, but anything beats a no lynch.

Now when we look at stark's wagon:

• stark --
  DrippingGoofball
  , populartajo,
  crywolf20084
  ,
  Xylthixlm
  ,
  Tarhalindur
  ,
  camn

You can see by the bold how incredibly town-driven that wagon was.. adding Tar for the whole cult-vig stuff.

First of all, why are DGB, Tar, and you "incredibly town"?

Wait. Tar was part of Xyl's claim? Ok, I won't erase what I have here because that was my thought process, but I guess Tar is town.

So if scum is on Stark's wagon, it's DGB, Tajo, and/or camn. Tajo and camn were on 2 of the 4 previously mentioned wagons. Good to know. If Stark is town, I'm going to look at both players more closely.

Also, Tajo, when asked by DGB to look at Yos and myself, called me scum with little reason and never really gave Yos a good look. I can see a connection between these three.

Totally obviously town

Xyl
DrippingGoofball
Tarhalindur
Rogueben
camn
populartajo

Not totally obviously town

scotmany12
hasdgfas
Yosarian2
farside22
Kmd4390
sam.samhorn
Korejora
stark

Why are Tajo and camn town? Why isn't Cow?

I had some thoughts about Xly while in the shower this morning.

Semi-disturbing.

I had some thoughts about Xly while in the shower this morning.

a) Xyl... did you say you were a one-shot?

b) Did you have anything to do with the Zwet Vig?

c) Shouldn't we just lynch Yosarian, then.. if he is unreadable? Better now than have him burn us in endgame, right?

d) Scumlist. Everyone. Now, please.

A and B are rolefishing. Especially B. As far as C, a Yos lynch would be ok, but not for being unreadable.

I had some thoughts about Xly while in the shower this morning.

OMG!!

Bah. Tajo beat me to the comment. I'm too slow.

Anybody want to post the case on Kmd in. or point me to where the case is? From what I get, the reasoning is jumbled among many posts and it would be easier if someone constructed the case in one post.

I voted Qwints.

Anyway, KMD's recent posts seem off to me; especally the way in his last post he stuck to his vote on the (in my opinion) nearly confirmed innocent Xyl, and used pop's weak cult speculatation as an excuse to do so. I don't necesarally think it's scummy for Pop to have wondered about that, but I distrust Kmd's:

I asked one question. I saw after I typed it that Tajo asked the same thing. And why is me asking the question scummy and Tajo asking it ok? (Note that I don't consider Tajo's actions regarding Xyl scummier than my own, I just want to know what you think seperates his from mine.)

I still think it was a valid point to make at the time.

Well if someone calls me scummy, I'm going to ask why. I find kmd scummy for his attack on xyl. It appears contrived, and I dislike how he wanted to wait until today to first bring up his case. I feel like he was trying to push xyl's style of play as a scumtell, which is not the case. I asked others because I would like to see why others find him scummy as well.

READ MOAR.

The Xyl case was up yesterday. I quoted it today for reference. Xyl was my number 2 suspect after Qwints yesterday. Also, what about the case didn't you like specifically?

How did I push his playstyle as scummy? (I've never played with Xyl, so maybe I did it unknowingly, but I don't think I did.)

And KMD.. you are getting to be on my radar. Lets hear what you have to say.

I don't usually lurk. You know this. I hate doing it. I didn't look at games during Marathon Day (with the exception of the game I was modding that had a deadline) and I spent most of today IMing Zazie. I said I'd catch up tonight or tomorrow, and I am doing that now.

PS..

a side note to KMD... when I say yankees suck or redsocks suck.. I don't mean "suck" as in "bad at baseball" I mean "suck" as in "ruining baseball". I also mean "suck" as in "I hate you."

LOL!!! Ruining baseball how? Being too successful? That's OMGUS and you know it!

Oh, and you didn't think I forgot the scum list, did you?

Basically confirmed:
Cow
Xyl
Kmd

Town Read:
DGB
Rogue

Slightly Scummy to Nuetral (scummiest on bottom):
sam
Tar
farside
Stark
Scot
Kore

Scummiest:
Yosarian2
camn
populartajo

Vote Tajo

*Waits for "OMG KMD THAT'S TOTALLY OMGUS"*

[Kmd4390]

OMG KMD THAT'S TOTALLY OMGUS

Confirm vote: KMD.

That didn't take long. It's not OMGUS if I have reasons to think you are scum. I could care less that you are voting me.

[Kmd4390]

TSQ/Tar-3 (Zwet, Cow, Crywolf)

Um... I replaced TSQ not Tar. Tar replaced Jebus...

Shit. My bad. TSQ (1) vote Zwet. Tar (2) voted Cow and Crywolf.

Rogue and Tar are both voting Stark.

What puts camn in your absolutely scumlist KMD. I'd like a full case against him as I'm not seeing it whatsoever.

I'll do a full case before I got V/LA (see sig). 1592 is the most I have right now.

[Kmd4390]

Also, do you expect bad reasoning from Yos as scum? The game is ongoing (I'm dead), but I recently saw him flip scum in another game and was shocked.

I was in that game too, and I wasn't shocked.

I don't remember you replacing in.

Well still. I was shocked.

[Kmd4390]

Tell me why I am scum, then. Basically your case is that I dont have a case against you which is partially true because Im basing my vote in wagon analysis and POE.
Following your logic, everyone suspecting you for this reasons should be scum which is an obvious fallacy or do you think that analysing bandwagons is scummy?

Analyzing bandwagons is far from scummy.

Why did you ignore Yos when DGB asked who between Yos and myself was scum?

[Kmd4390]

Take some time to make a case against me, KMD. A player of your level would have already realized that Im obv town.

Will do. Before V/LA.

Why should I "realize you are obvtown"?

(Note that my situation is similar to that of Yos. Qwints/Xyl were my top suspects. Qwints is dead. Xyl is basically confirmed.)

[Kmd4390]

Now:

Why did you remove yourself?

Because I am obvtown. Plus, everyone, scum or town, assumes in any argument that they are town.

But everyone else is looking at the wagons as well. It's misleading not to include yourself.

Now your turn:

Basically confirmed:
Cow
Xyl

Kmd

Why are YOU confirmed?

Different.

You did a wagon analysis that people will obviously look at. You removed yourself with confirmed townies.

I called myself town in a scumlist. People will see that and know that it's because I assume myself town as you say.

If people use your analysis to form opinions, they can easily miss you. I think you knew that though. You aren't dumb.

Also, to address a few points:

A and B are rolefishing.

He already claimed. We went over this in that other game. If he already claimed.. it isn't fishing. It is clarification.

Why should he give more information than needed? If he looks too powerful to scum, he's more likely to be killed. He is basically confirmed, so that is enough information for us.

Being too successful?

So successful that the USA can lose to every other country in the world in a sport WE INVENTED?? Castro laughs at the Yankees.

What does the USA have to do with the Yankees? The Yankees, in the MLB, are successful. No?

[Kmd4390]

Why are Tajo and camn town? Why isn't Cow?

Tajo is totally obviously town because he's playing like town-tajo.
camn is totally obviously town because she is totally awesome and anyone so totally awesome couldn't be scum.
hasdgfas isn't totally obviously town because he's not contributing enough and not obviously town from what he does contribute.

I notice you didn't ask me about Rogueben.

How, specifically, does Tajo play differently as town than as scum?

Your "reasoning" on camn fails.

Do you think a name cop would be a useful scum role? How?

Why would I ask you about a player we agree on?

[Kmd4390]

How, specifically, does Tajo play differently as town than as scum?

He plays scummier when he's scum. Duh.

Your "reasoning" on camn fails.

It works for me.

Don't do this. Being nearly confirmed doesn't mean sit back and let everyone guess.

Do you think a name cop would be a useful scum role? How?

No, but I think a role cop would be a useful scum role, and a role cop can easily pretend to be a name cop.

You think he gets name and role? This is plausible. =/

Why would I ask you about a player we agree on?

My mental model of you says that you should find Rogueben scummy. I'm wondering why you don't.

Why is that?

[Kmd4390]

Well if someone calls me scummy, I'm going to ask why. I find kmd scummy for his attack on xyl. It appears contrived, and I dislike how he wanted to wait until today to first bring up his case. I feel like he was trying to push xyl's style of play as a scumtell, which is not the case. I asked others because I would like to see why others find him scummy as well.

READ MOAR.

The Xyl case was up yesterday. I quoted it today for reference. Xyl was my number 2 suspect after Qwints yesterday. Also, what about the case didn't you like specifically?

How did I push his playstyle as scummy? (I've never played with Xyl, so maybe I did it unknowingly, but I don't think I did.)

I know it was up yesterday, but you originally wanted to wait until today to post it. Your case is contrived, and out of everything you said about him in your case, the only thing that is not related to his play was him overdoing the stark joke thing, and I guess the situation with qwints. But everything else has basically been established before hand as his play. He policy lynches people who lurk, and who are antitown. You were attacking him for his overall playstyle. It's equivalent to if you were attacking dgb for her nonsensical style of play.

I was waiting because the deadline was coming up and I didn't want to no lynch when Qwints could be lynched.

And that makes sense about his playstyle I guess. I didn't know this as I haven't played with him. He looked scummy to me. *shrugs*

[Kmd4390]

Why is that?

Because he agrees with camn on nearly everything, except camn talks more.

Do people who agree on things always share alignment?

[Kmd4390]

Sharing views is different from buddying up.

[Kmd4390]

Sharing views is different from buddying up.

What are the distinguishing signs?

Examples of buddying up:

"X is so awesome they have to be town."
"X is cool." *Follows*
"<3s. That's why I play mafia with you."

Examples of sharing views:

"Yeah, you're right. X looks pretty scummy/townie."
"I see that point."
"Logical assumption."

The first group is basically just baseless compliments and following for no real reason. The second is more game-related and reasoned.

[Kmd4390]

Tell me why I am scum, then. Basically your case is that I dont have a case against you which is partially true because Im basing my vote in wagon analysis and POE.
Following your logic, everyone suspecting you for this reasons should be scum which is an obvious fallacy or do you think that analysing bandwagons is scummy?

Analyzing bandwagons is far from scummy.

Why did you ignore Yos when DGB asked who between Yos and myself was scum?

I didnt. I just think you have more probs of coming scum than Yos. One thing Im sure, tough, there

has

to be scum in that wagon and you know POE and such.

And why can't Yos be scum?

[Kmd4390]

The first example sounds like roflcopter and me. Your scum detection method is rubbish.

Well, certain people buddy up regardless. Darox-<->anyone. Tajo<-->SG. Hell, Zazie<-->myself

It's scummy when it's not normal.

[Kmd4390]

Take some time to make a case against me, KMD. A player of your level would have already realized that Im obv town.

Will do. Before V/LA.

Why should I "realize you are obvtown"?

(Note that my situation is similar to that of Yos. Qwints/Xyl were my top suspects. Qwints is dead. Xyl is basically confirmed.)

Because Im obvtown, come on, KMD.
What changed your mind about Xyl?

His claim and Yos's explanation why cult isn't likely.

Yes, I think Yos is scum. But I think the point he makes is logical and correct anyway.

[Kmd4390]

See now why I like him more than I like you?

Because even if he is scum he'll make good points? Is that a reason to just assume him town like you and camn seem to be doing?

I'm looking for your case against Yos. Where is it?

I don't have a case yet. I don't expect it to be easy to make one on him though...

As I am obviously at the mercy of my rediculous bandwagon I will claim.

I have been breadcrumbing the whole time with my "confirmed innocent".

I am Brian Boru. I have a passive ability that prevents me from being made to look like an outlaw.

This makes me think that there's a role out there, sort of a miller-maker.

Sounds like a fakeclaim for "investigation immune".

[Kmd4390]

I will have a comment for Kmd when I have time to get it together. Since Kmd will be out for a week I will make sure he is around to account for my comments.

I'm still here until Sunday.

[Kmd4390]

Take some time to make a case against me, KMD. A player of your level would have already realized that Im obv town.

Will do. Before V/LA.

What puts camn in your absolutely scumlist KMD. I'd like a full case against him as I'm not seeing it whatsoever.

I'll do a full case before I got V/LA

Can we see these before Stark self-hammers?

?

I'll try and look closer tonight.

[Kmd4390]

I'm noticing a pattern here... people who camn thinks is scum think camn is scum, and people who camn thinks is town think camn is town.

Um. Can't this be said for almost any player in almost any game?

[Kmd4390]

IN that infamous game with the lurkerscumteam.... did I even once call you scum? Despite you pushing an INCREDIBLY tunnelvisioned crapcase on me the ENTIRE game?

I pushed crap cases on Porkens and Nameless too. Not just you.

Now.. you were able to launch a crapcase on me then.. lets see what you have now!

I can do it now, but I can't guarantee the whole thing being done. If I don't finish, I'll post what I have because Stark is at L-1.

[Kmd4390]

Camn:

I have to go soon, but here's how far I got. So this along with what I've posted recently.

I am also inclined to kill zwet. I like short-ish day1s.

Scum like "short-ish" days too.

I don't believe him [Zwet]. Even if he CAN come up with flavor.
I just wonder what YOU are looking for.

Now this could honestly go either way, but I imagine scum would have gone after Zwet here. You did that. (as did I and as did some town aligned players). Not a real complete scumtell, but there is a good chance scum went after Zwet.

But...

I never had a vote on Zwet.
Why would you say that I did?

You didn't believe him. See above. Why didn't you vote him? Trying to separate yourself from the wagon when you do vote analysis and he has flipped town?

What case? I don't recall myself or Tajo stating any reason for voting Jebus.
Despite me not stating a reason, you called my vote "mindless". Seems like an overreaction, considering it was the first vote on him.

What exactly are you saying here? You admit you have no case (why not just call it a lurker vote? That's what it was.) and yet you have a problem with Scot calling it mindless.

I'm actually really close to asking to be replaced. I just remembered why I hate playing with DGB.

How on earth is there no votes on TSQ?

You want to replace out of a game because you don't like how it is going for you?
If I didn't love lynching lurkers so much, I would totally be voting you for this alone.

FOS: TSQ

You need to calm down.

I don't even see you mention TSQ before this. Is wanting to replace out really the reason you saw him as scummy? And why imply that ONLY a lurker lynch is satisfying? Should I just start being like Zwet and post any time anyone else does just for the sake of posting? Am I cleared if I do that?

You are clearly NOT indifferent on Jebus. You desperately want to avoid his lynch.

And I am hardly "pushing his lynch". I am just tired of people arguing about whether lurking is a scum-tell. It isn't. It's worse.

For all this talk on how you love lynching lurkers, this is weird. You aren't pushing his lynch? What are you doing then? Why scream ,"DIELURKERSDIE" while voting a lurker and say you aren't pushing his lynch?

Yeah, I can read it.

Now I am going to totally blow your mind:

a) I have never argued that Jebus is scum. Your debate is elsewhere.
b) I am not pushing the Lurker Wagon. I simply understand why it exists.
c) I don't keep track of my games. And I don't assist people with meta-analyzing me.
d) I don't care if you are voting me. I just want you to stop thinking about JEBUS!!!
e)

UNVOTE, VOTE TSQ

Why? because I was trying to pick this fight with you, but somehow Scot took over. You two with your lurker love.

To a, you were voting him at this time. To b, you were ON THE WAGON. To d, you were voting Jebus. Why didn't you want Scot thinking about Jebus? To e, the vote honestly doesn't make sense. You were trying to pick a fight with him? Why is that vote worthy?

Look.. in honesty, I would like all lurkers to die.

IN THIS GAME, I am at the point where I want to get serious.... But a lurker is a FINE place to keep my vote until I decide on who must die. Just accept it.

This is the beginning of your post number 34. You had done next to no scumhunting up to this point. Just voting Jebus and telling people not to think about him and screaming about lurkers. The closest thing you'd done to scumhunting was the TSQ vote which you hardly explain until this post.

And even that explanation:

a) you were playing like scum.
b) Everyone is suspect
c) Replacing out because your feelings are hurt is almost as unacceptable, on a meta-level, as lurking.

a and b say nothing about TSQ's specific play. So your scumhunting so far amounts to a player talking about replacing out.

[Kmd4390]

Scot, I actually called Stark pretty townie Day 1. I "ignored" him today because I was hardly posting with Marathon Day. He got called for lurking Day 1 and started to post. He went back to lurking again today. That along with his claim doesn't look great to me.

[Kmd4390]

Now this could honestly go either way, but I imagine scum would have gone after Zwet here. You did that. (as did I and as did some town aligned players). Not a real complete scumtell, but

there is a good chance scum went after Zwet.

Does that mean you see my case against Rogueben/TSQ?

Remind me on the case.

[Kmd4390]

@ Kmd

Let me try a direct route.

One of you and Yos is scum. Which is it, and why? Could it be both?

It's Yos because I'm town. No it can't be both.

[Kmd4390]

I lost my post last night. But DGB, I looked back at the Zwet wagon. Yes, TSQ was on it. Does that make him scum? Not necessarily. Does it make him more likely to be scum? Possibly.

I don't have a case on Yos aside from his voting for proven townies. I don't expect there to be a great case on him even if he is scum.

I pushed crap cases on Porkens and Nameless too. Not just you.

Sounds like lurker-hunting would have a higher success rate than your current scumhunting technique.

Because I played one terrible game? I'm sure we all have.

Tajo, I left my vote on you because I wanted Stark to say more about his claim before we lynch him.

Really frustrating losing a post.

If I'm around enough today, I'll look closer at Tajo's posts. This weekend is gonna be busy as hell for me.

[Kmd4390]

Is there anything more to say about my claim? I've shared all that I know.

Maybe respond to what people have said?

[Kmd4390]

Farside,

I joke vote Zazie any time I get the chance regardless of alignment. I voted her in that game to stay consistent with my meta.

The issue with TSQ wasn't the vote itself. It was the lack of explanation.

A scum dayvig going down would shoot someone as basically a free kill. They'd use it the same as a NK. We'd probably lose a good player who is town aligned. A protown dayvig would probably shoot a lurker or scummy player.

I vote where needed to avoid No Lynch. You haven't seen this because your modding rules allow for deadline lynches without majority.

Scum use code during the day sometimes. See Kingdom Mafia modded by Windkirby. The scum had a code set up for the day.

Qwints caught my attention based on gut. I looked into it and saw a case. I posted that case. Is that scummy?

How have I buddied with camn? And if you think I did, how was it any different from this game where we were both town?

Qwints being town means I was wrong. What more do you expect me to say?

I didn't know Xyl's meta. This is my first game with him.

Xyl claimed and became basically confirmed. Why am I going to go after someone who is basically confirmed? And I can't be suspicious of someone if I previously thought they were town? Can you honestly tell me you have NEVER changed your mind on someone as town?

[Kmd4390]

I hate the bolded in quote format.

Oh well. Anyway.

My gut told me Qwints was scum. Would it have been protown to wait until someone else mentioned him? No. I thought he was scum. I made a case.

Llama scares me when he could be scum. He's great scum. I should know (Mini 628). But I also know he is a great player as town, so I'm not afraid to follow him if he is confirmed. Also, you didn't answer about camn specifically. How am I buddying up and how is it different from the game I linked? (FTR, I didn't think she was town in that game.)

He didn't really defend himself. Look at any game I've played. If I make a case, any follow-up is a response to their defense or additions to the case based on later actions. I added a couple of things later, but he didn't do much, so I didn't really have anything to respond to.

Why Tajo? Mostly the way he refuses to acknowledge that Yos being a good player doesn't make him town. DGB asked him who of Yos and myself is scum and he basically went all Yos is town so it's Kmd.

[Kmd4390]

Oh, this game is over.

I tried to connect myself to Yos, camn, Tajo, and Farside in that order just before I died. Looks like it didn't work.

Good game town...

[Kmd4390]

I'd rather not post the QT, but if you guys want, go ahead. It was pretty depressing how almost no one talked. >_____>

^
More proof that Zwet really WAS town.

[Kmd4390]

I'm happy that I did something useful...

Wait, when was this?

[Kmd4390]

Oh. Almost forgot.

Camn,

[Kmd4390]

Hey camn. Wanna use Zwet to see if my Gambit (actually an analysis strategy more than a Gambit when I use it like this) works better on a confirmed town wagon? hasdgfas, Thestatusquo, Yosarian2, scotmany12, sam.samhorn, Kmd4390. Those were the Zwet voters. (Actually, at quick glance, Qwints, Caboose, and Cow all were voting Zwet at one point too.)

I bet we can find an experienced scum or 2 or maybe even 3 on this wagon.

Qwints, Yos, TSQ would be my top choices. Cow and Scot are meh as well. So yeah, I'm doing this again based on the simple fact that Zwet was town. Stef being scum ruined the hell out of it last time. I'm gonna piss off Camn here and say this: My analysis strategy reinforces my scum read on Qwints. It also reinforces any suspicion I may get on any of these players later.

@KMD

<snip>

ANd

your gambit doesn't apply

... because it wasn't a crap-case. it was real scumminess that started the zwet wagon. Real scumminess garners townies and clever scum equally.
YOUR gambit was based on a CRAP-case drawing scum in, no?

*shrug*