Mini 760 - Bleach Mafia: Karakura Town - Game Over!

[Mastin]

Thanks. It's an honor. I browsed the first seven or so pages (specifically, I was only looking at a few people's posts, and practically ignoring everyone else), when everyone else began to catch my eye as well.

For me to actually conclude who is scummy, I believe it would be best for me to reread all the pages and see for myself what I think.

And, as a spectator to this game, I also came to some conclusions about roles in this game, but at this stage of the game, I question whether it would be a good idea to talk about them. (Mainly, it has to do with who I think would be the scum-names, and who would be the town-names) They're just a spectator's wild speculation, and it might help scum in a nameclaim and hurt town in any future name claim as well, so I'd like to hear other opinions on the matter as well.

[Mastin]

Something I just thought of:

We've all been saying that it was a doc save, because scum would very doubtfully no kill. And I agree, in that this is the most likely scenario. But, well, I have yet to see people consider two very real possibilities.
1: We have a night-kill immune player, who was shot, and the mafia wasted their shot because of that.
2: We have a roleblocker, who roleblocked the scum who sent in the kill.

Did the thought cross anyone else's mind?

[Mastin]

is indeed a bad idea, but if you have any idea of who is mafia at the moment I'd like to hear your opinion.

A death scene would help determine that, but as we have no death scene to go off of, my speculation:

1: Arrancar. They're the only hollows who are actually in a team. Really, flavor-wise, can you think of any three hollows that work together, besides Arrancar? As to what they're called, no clue. I know, it's many arcs early (Arrancar are in the Arrancar arc, and in the Anime, that's not 'til ~110; this is in the first arc, apparently), but it makes sense.
2: Sosuke Aizen, Ichimaru Gin, and the third traitor captain. They're the big bad guys, after all, in Bleach.

3: CRAZY WILD THEORY: Ichigo Kurosaki and Uryu Ishida. I would be down-right shocked if this were the case, but it is a possibility.

And then there's always the three-hollow pair people seem to think, even though our serial killer was just a plain ol' hollow.

You're going to counterbalance PhilyEc perfectly. For every question PhilyEc asks, Mastin will provide five answers! No, six!!

Now I know this game is going to be fun.

So...I don't have to hold back on post length? SWEET.

Though, of course, reviewing the thread, I will still be holding back, as I imagine that it'd overload even the best readers here if I were to go all-out.

Me too, and that's how I noticed him doing it to you too. Ahhh newbie games. I just hope he doesn't scare anyone off the site!! LOL

Bah. Me, scare someone off the site? Nah. They just night kill me instead.

[Mastin]

Thoughts on the game, so far:

NOTE: (And

WARNING

: ) While this was only about six pages in Microsoft Word, that's still fairly long for most people's tastes.

Well, on my browse from memory as a spectator, I thought Glados was pro-town almost certainly; I can say that much. I also thought one other person was, but I forget who that person was. Glados immediately started this game off with some nice logic,

1.) ZEEnon did not notice that Gorrad has yet to confirm.
2.) Therefore, ZEEnon and Gorrad are probably not scum together.

Page two, I do not dislike any players, nor do I have any particular like of them, either. In other words, I’m not seeing any potential scum, nor any potential town. These people, making it so hard on me, by actually playing

normally

. It’s so much easier in a newbie game.

Page three, I am finding vibes from Korlash, Green, and Phil, in the posts. They seem to distinctly be leaning towards helping reveal alignment…the problem is, I can’t decide if it’s scum, or town.
I see a possible scum pair between Korlash and Green, at that stage in the game, but it’s a huge stretch.

Later on page three, and I’m thinking Phil is town, and Green is scum. Of course, as I read these things in more detail, these opinions could change.

Oh, boy. Page four lost my train of thought, to be honest. Again, slight suspicions, in my mind, on Green, Korlash, and Albert came to mind, for the most part.

Seraphim’s lack of posting seemed to be interesting, for the most part.

I seem to be using ‘for the most part’ a good deal in these recent paragraphs, for the most part.
Seriously, though, again, easy pairing between Korlash, Albert, and Green possible, though doubtful. Nearing page six, they are all fairly suspicious (top three), yet—at the same time—not. I can see a scum three-some in them, yet I can also see three pro-town players who have similar views.

Glados dropped a possible tell to a role with killing powers, right here:

It is akin to when I falsely tell tests subjects that I am going to murder them. It is simply part of the protocol.

But, obviously, I could just be shooting at the shadows.

Yay Gorrad I was afraid you would miss the train!

I keep on seeing this reference to a train. I keep on interpreting it as some sort of subtle role claim. It’s…interesting, to say the least, but, again, I see these kinds of things all the time, where a good portion of the time, they do not really exist.

Gorrad appeared to have been lurking, then comes in with content. Earlier had stated internet problems, yet it still took rather some time to post so little. It is worthy of noting, to say the least.

I have a bad vibe coming from Xtoxm, based off of my meta on X. That was only from one game, though, where he was a townie, but even so, he was contributing far more than what he is doing right now.

Green’s looking far less suspicious than before.

It’s hard to judge characters for me at this point in the game. The lack of a death really threw my balance off, to say the least, but overall, the list looks something like this:

Pro-town Appearing:

Glados
Phil

Neutral
Green
Korlash

Scummy
X
Gorrad
Seraph
Albert

The order is most to least. I am really out of balance with this game, right now. The death of the SK and no night kill trained together leave it much harder for me, in my mind set, to lock onto alignment of players.

In a previous game of mine, people were practically ready to lynch one of the IC’s for this bad logic:

That's not anyone's fault in particular but when I'm in a large amount of games, the boring ones end up on the backburner.

Sure, later on, it was due to other reasons as well, but the fact remains, people dislike those who show very little interest in the games they join.

Albert being on the wagon just makes me think more so that he is infact Mafia (Hollow).

Phil claims that the mafia are Hollows, where we can’t know that for sure.

End day one. I read all posts from this point on.

ZEE had the honor of the first post, which many have pointed out to be a scum tell, especially since ZEE didn’t consider anything but a doctor save and a mafia no-kill as a possibility.

Zee was right about the mafia, though; they almost certainly thought they were lynching a pro-town player (joke’s on them, eh? ), and it would not surprise me if all three mafia were on the wagon.

In fact, a good portion of that post contained perfectly valid points.

On to the game,

Yay me! <3 Chadokun!

Recognizes the scene from the actual Manga/Anime, but mentioning Chad Sato could’ve been his way of hinting at something we do not know about. Again, just me jumping out at the shadows…

And SK is scum. So learn the word before you try any of this self gratifying shit on the rest of us.

Korlash is correct—SK is scum, cult can be considered scum, but X was using ‘scum’ in the case given to mean ‘mafia’, to which, X was also right. Not mafia, but still scum.

Interesting fact: Right at the beginning of the day, both Albert and Zee manage to get two votes on them. That’s got to be a record.

Also worthy of note: I am again finding Green a bit suspicious, even though the points against Zee are valid. It’s the way it’s being presented, I suppose, which just seems to be “He’s scum! Lynch him!” Yet I do not recall Green thinking Zee was scum even ONCE before day two.

I don’t like Seraph’s attitude right here,

I want to see more of ZEEnon before I vote him, however. He lurked out most of day 1 so I don't have a read on him.

Implies wanting to vote Zee, yet instead,

Vote: Albert B. Rampage

Explains how Albert’s overall feel was scummy, and Zee made only one scummy move, yes, but I still don’t like it.

Also casts the third vote on Albert.

I fully support this, and for this reason I:
Vote: ZEEnon
FoS: Seraphim

And, again, that ties Zee and Albert, both with three votes. Very, very easily three scum on one bandwagon, at least, a possibility.

Gorrad did raise a very valid point against Seraphim, though.

Interesting note: Votes soon change, putting Albert still at three, Zee at two, and Seraph at two as well, I believe.

By the way,

FoS: PhilyEc. Something about using the phrase "

leeching

" directly after I myself use the phrase to describe ABR is rubbing me the wrong way.

Just a warning, I’m well-known for using this term a lot (particularly in Newbie 742).

Note on Probable Pairs:
It is again a stretch, and even if one of them flips scum, it wouldn’t necessarily condemn the other two, but if I had to give a scum three-some, it’d be Albert, Gorrad, and Korlash.

But

that’s only on the basis that they are defending each other a lot—I’m not as sure about the top-three scummy players, but amongst them is definitely Seraph.

If I had to say, it’d probably look like this, most to least:

Seraph
Green
Albert

Ack. Like I said, it’s hard, I’m second-guessing myself…

Seraph caught a very valid point about Green, along with the way Green’s been presenting the cases on his suspects.

Summary:

I would support a Seraph lynch. It would be very favorable for finding players’ alignments, as, well, quite frankly, almost all the players except for a few have acted at least partially scummy somewhere throughout the game…

[Mastin]

I do know something but it's definitly not what you are thinking. Unless you are thinking strange things...

You know, sometimes, I really hate it when I'm right. >_>

i'm only saying this because it actually dosn't matter if the scum know I know something or not at this point, and as people are finding me suspicious I think my claim will be somewhere in the future so... yeah...

Generally, I've found that your attitude is particularly good when you're a pro-town player who has some night action (*points to the two games where Mastin was cop, yet was called scummy*), trying to avoid being shot by the mafia. Flat-out saying that you do have some knowledge the town doesn't is almost a sure way to guarantee that you are night killed, though. Which is why I, again, fall back to this:

You know, sometimes, I really hate it when I'm right. >_>

You probably should not have answered that, Korlash...

[Mastin]

Concerning the role/mechanics speculation in 336, I have to ask once again:

don't trust him OR ZEE. They're voting for each other, so no matter which of the two I'm voting for, I'll have someone I don't trust voting with me.

I think you've got the wrong number, Green.

[Mastin]

Since I already addressed you with that question, and it went unanswered, you should have known what I meant. I can't tell if you're purposefully not answering or if you are being thick.

Quite honestly, I didn't notice. If I notice, I try to respond.

Do you feel that opining on potential town roles is a good thing to do on Day Two?

There is no universal answer. It depends on the game, and what situation we're in. At this point in the game, I would think it is alright to do it a little, but we should avoid discussing it a lot.

[Mastin]

What benefit - specific to this game - do you think it will allow us to have at this point in time?

If done correctly, it can be a useful tool for scum hunting. It can also help us sort out the later mess of when people do claim.

Speculating who may have what power roles looks like a good way to give scum ideas that they might have otherwised missed with no upside potential except a warm fuzzy feeling that we might have a useful power role or two that now is in the mafia's sights.

Which is why it is best to limit it.

How are you qualifying speculating about power roles only "a little?"

Again, speculating only 'a little' is helpful for finding scum. To state how it is helpful in finding scum would nullify the point of that advantage, though. And, again, it can help the town make sense out of claims later on, how they make sense, why...

What are the positives of discussing it just "a little?"

See above.

If we're going to speculate, why are you limiting it to "a little?"

Because speculating 'a little' can be very helpful to the town. Speculating 'a lot' will be dead giveaways for the scum to select their targets and help them fake claim later on.

It looks like the logic behind it is that extensive role speculation is harmful to the town because it helps scum.

Extensive, yes. A little, can have the opposite outcome.

If that's the case, then role speculation in general is harmful, and the amount merely dictates the severity of the harm done.

I fail to see how you come to this conclusion. Extensive speculation harms the town greatly. Slight speculation can help the town.

Therefore, I come full circle: What benefit do you see in speculation at this point in time?

Albert will get angry if I answer this one more time, even if I just reword it.

I'm not too keen on your desire to discuss roles at this point in time.

And I would prefer to not discuss it very much.

If anything, the current game status (no town dead, SK removed from the scene) looks like role discussion/speculation is actually where we don't want to go.

In a greater amount, yes.

As far as I can tell, we're currently ahead.

Sort of. From an information standpoint, we're in an eleven-player game with a day start.

Speculation at this point seems like a good way to shoot ourselves in the foot.

Bah. A little bodily pain every once in a while never hurt anyone, right? [/joke] Seriously, though, I'll say it in brief terms:
Little speculation is helpful,
Lots is just anti-town.

[Mastin]

My apologies. Weekends can be killers, internet problems don't make things easier, you get the idea.

WARNING:

Long post is sure to follow, for three or so long pages of catch-up work.

If you're going to use role speculation to notch a few town points beneath a player's name on your tally chart, keep it to yourself - it's not something that needs to be shared with the town at large when that player isn't under suspicion. The notion that speculating which individual players have what specific roles will somehow help the town in days to come when role reveals occur is absurd. It either 1. exposes a town player to mafia scrutiny or 2. gives scum role claim ideas. I'm not buying it.

It is helpful in many ways to the town, if used correctly, and--as I have stated--saying in what ways would nullify the point of it. It is helpful to the mafia if done wrongly, allowing them to make a good claim.

Let me rephrase my question, because you misinterpreted what I was asking. You are saying it's okay to speculate about roles - but only "a little." Well, what are you qualifications for speculation being a little, as opposed to say, "moderately," or "a fair amount," or "extensively?" It's arbitrary, and since you yourself as saying there's a big difference in the helpful:hurtful ratio all dependent upon this quantity qualifer, it's a dangerous game you're playing - even by your own standards.

'A little' would be what I did--point out a few possible role hints here and there, which are just as easily jumping out at the shadows.
'Too much' would be speculating pretty much any further, about

what

those hints could be to. Which I believe both a fair amount and extensively fall into.

The common factor in both of those things is town role speculation. You haven't shown me why town role speculation at this point in time for this game is good.

And as I have said, to do so would nullify most if not all of the benefits of it.

No, this is a mischaracterization of our current status. From a power role information standpoint we're in an eleven-player game with a day start. But from a player information standpoint, we were given a free day of interactions.

Bad choice of words, then. Yea, power role-wise, it really seems like a eleven-player game with day start. Information-wise, we have much more.

Also, since you're taking the position that we're in a Day One type situation, I find it equally odd that you're wanting to have role speculation about specific players. Do you normally engage in role speculation on Day One? Specific player role speculation is simply Mass Claim's little brother. I find both to be harmful if used in the early stages of any game with a competent mod.

I give who I think is town and scum, for the most part. I also have been known to speculate whether there's a doctor/cop in the game, due to me being the cop in those games. Yes, I do it day one.
...But this is my first non-newbie game. Things work a little differently.

Mastins, hows your reread gone? Anyone you think is definately scum? (I'd like to look into some other people while I'm waiting).

I'm at an all-time low. Perhaps it's the unfamiliar environment, or the fact that I was a spectator, or the fact that there's no pro-town player dead for me to work on.
However, I am strongly leaning towards Green being scum, to answer.

I am Kon and have the ability to "hide" with another player rendering me untargetable for kills that night. However, if the player I am hiding behind is targeted for a kill, I also die.

Due to my own role, I find this a very, very believable claim.

Points for Seraphim:

-There was no night kill. Seraph's claim could (but might not be) be related to that. If the scum did target Seraph, my experience says they are more likely to try and lynch the person they tried to kill. (About a 70/25/5 ratio, with 25 being them defending the player, and 5 being other. This is all personal epicmafia experience, though.)
-Due to my role, the flavor from Seraph's post for the role he claims seems to be accurate.

Points Against:

-He was inactive most of yesterday. Why try to night kill him? Inactive players are easy lynch targets. Hence, it makes little sense for him to be the target of a night kill (the first point given), as he's a fine candidate for a village idiot (person, not role), from what I can tell.
-He's said some rather scummy things, amongst them contradictions. (I've done it before as a cop, nearly got lynched because of it)

Mastin, you have already have three instances where you point out possible roles: (1) speculating that Korlash hinted at something with “<3 Chadokun”; (2) speculating that Korlash hinted at something by using “train”; and (3) speculating that I have a killing role because I used a quote from Portal about killing test subjects;

What was the purpose in bringing this speculation to the town? How does it help the town? This sort of thing seems better suited to give the mafia ideas or ideas for fake-claim, and is a subtle way to fish at roles. I completely agree with Green Crayons on this point. FoS: Mastin.

1: Role hints can be dropped in the most subtle way. Even in using an example from Portal, where your name comes from.
2: Amongst others, scum hunting.
3: If done wrongly, yes, it allows for scum to fake claim. If done correctly, though, it's an excellent scum hunting tactic.

What made Seraphim’s lack of posting more interesting than others’ lack of posting? This seems to be revolving around page 4 of so of the game, where multiple players were not really posting. Honestly, this throwaway line in your post makes me think you only included because Seraphim happens to be a top suspect today.

1: At the time, he had appeared to me to be more inactive than the others. It was also consistent throughout the day, where others came back and posted later. Page four, or ten; the lack of activity is still concerning, especially if it is consistent.

2: People aren't 'top suspects' if they aren't suspected by at least the majority of the town. If they are suspected by the greatest amount of people, they are a top suspect.
What I'm saying is that this same logic can be applied to any other who thinks Seraph is scum--they have their own reasons for thinking that he is. They give their reasoning behind what becomes a FoS/Vote.
If I had not thought Seraph was scum,
had Albert, Green, Phil, and Zee not thought he was scum,
he wouldn't be a top suspect, now, would he?

3: I apologize if I am tunneling a little. It is part of my playstyle, to say the least, one which I'm slowly trying to change.

Why do kills not translate to the hided but other actions do? It doesn't make sense.

It does to me. He's basically claiming to be an un-night-kill-able townie, but if he targets someone who dies, he dies with them.
Yes, it's an easy excuse for any power role with a guilty on him to say 'then I hid behind scum!' But it is a role with both advantages and disadvantages, and I am inclined to believe it.

3.) What happens if you hide behind a Doctor and that same Doctor protects you? Does this essentially mean the Doctor protects himself, therefore leaving both of you completely invincible so long as there is only one kill each night?

I don't follow this logic. If he hides behind the doctor, he's immune to being killed. If the doctor protects him, then he's double-protected. If the scum target the doctor, the doc would, probably, still die, yet he would live, due to doctor protection. Depends on whether the mod believes in 'doc owns all', or 'doc's weak'.
Just my insight.

If you think I stopped posting for a brief period of time because
I feel threatened by the 'arguments' against me, you are sadly mistaken.

I don't recall seeing anyone make that accusation. Why worried about it?
However, that said, we all have our moments of inactivity, so I agree.

I tend to refrain from forum-type sites when i'm on holidays.
Last week was spring break for me, so I avoided anything that had to do with work.

I greatly sympathize with Zee on this point, to say the least. Weekends hate mafiascum.net in my house.

Also, I strongly disagree with anyone who holds the view that commenting upon the night events is scummy.

For this, I agree. However, what you did was different.
1: You congratulated the doctor, when anything could contribute to no death. <--This is the point against you, not,
2: You commented on night actions in general after that, if I recall the post correctly. <--This, itself, is not bad.

So, basically, yea...commenting on night events is not scummy, rather the opposite. Screaming "GO DOCTOR!" is.

In the past i've seen that scum use this as an excuse to push more suspicion on players
when they have nothing else to use against them.

Quoted for absolute experience truth--"gut feeling" is very often a scum excuse. There was once a time where I thought anyone going off of gut was probable scum, and that it was a major scum tell.
However, that said, pro-town players do, indeed, use it, much to my chagrin. It's about a 60:40, scum:town ratio, in my opinion.

Two of these are DEFINITELY mafia. Possibly three.

It is probable, yes, but there are no certainties. It could be one, or even zero! But it is, indeed, far more likely that at least two were on the wagon.

The only thing holding me back is that highly believeable roleclaim.
I think that his roleclaim could have something to do with why there wasn't a night kill.
Perhaps he was targetted, but he was 'hiding' therefore he was not killed.

Like I said, why kill an inactive player who you can just lynch? It seems doubtful. But if they did target Seraph, the votes on him make sense. They would want their failed night kill lynched. They could've viewed Seraph as a threat, although I fail to see why.
And then, he could always be scum.

I tend to use loaded questions a lot. I find that I get reactions that are far more readable.
Non-Loaded Question: Why did you vote Player A?
Loaded Question: Did you vote Player A to protect Player B, or did you vote Player A to get a reaction from Player C?
I think that my questions get reactions that benefit us in the long run.

And there's a reason that they are listed as a fallacy, as a slight scum tell, Zee. I'm not sure what to make of this without reading your posting history.

"I'm dead set on this guy but I'm unvoting him" right... that's playing both sides of the field there buddy... what can't pick between bussing him and defending him right now?

This is an interesting point, and it shows rather the inconsistency. Zee, you explained that you believed the claim, and that it is the reason you unvoted--yet that contradicts with being dead-set on Seraph being scum. Can you explain?

Heh. I'm pretty sure I know to what Xtox is referring. Seraphim can get lynched now, since he doesn't have a clue (oh and all the other discrepancies others have pointed out).

And THIS is why I am thinking Green might be scum. I know exactly the kind of flavors the mod is giving out with the role PM's. Seraph's attitude is fitting perfectly with it.
I will not say anything more on the matter of flavor details, for it very easily could help the scum in a fake claim later on.
Of course, Green--if scum--wouldn't know how the mod gives flavor to the pro-town players.

I'm referring to the fact that the role matches the character
AND could be the reason that there was no night kill.
If his claim is true, it makes sense with what happened last night.
The character is very likely in the game, so I consider it HIGHLY possible.

I am quoting this for truth--Zee's right. With my role, I know that Kon's very probably in the game. It could explain the lack of a kill as well. It also matches the manga/anime version of Kon.

2. If they watched me, they would get results of the person I was hiding behind, yes.

Someone asked this: Would you show up on the report?

I have to agree with GC. It doesn't make sense that any actions are transfered at all. All targets should auto fail on a hider.

I can see it happening.
In addition to that, this is a themed game--one of the REASONS a game is themed is to put twists on classic roles. I do it, with games I've typed up, making some interesting results. I imagine most good mods do it. They put some sort of spin on the role that hasn't been there before.

EBWOP: Kon could also be a safeclaim given to the scum.

And how often are scum given safe claims, Korlash? If it's done often, you can surely name a few for me to read up on. If it's not, then it means that--while possible--it is highly doubtful.

Also this whole linking last night's no kill to his claim is stupid. What the hell are you going to say when the doc claims? Oh he had nothing to do with it, lynch the liar? Same with a Roleblocker? Same with a Jailkeep?

Agreed. The lack of a night kill could be any number of things. Yet the fact remains, it is possible Seraph was targeted last night and the scum are trying to get their failed night kill through right now, in a lynch.

I’m starting to disbelieve Seraphim’s role-claim even more than I was previously. The whole “transferred investigations” seems to be a way for him to argue with investigation results: “well, you didn’t investigate me, you investigated the person I hid behind.”

I also see this possibility. However, if not in lylo, we can lynch one, and then, if the first wasn't scum, we lynch the other.
Example: Cop gets guilty on Seraph.
Seraph claims to have hid behind Albert.
We lynch Albert.
A: If he flips scum, Seraph is more likely to be town, but isn't clear.
B: If he flips town, we lynch Seraph the next day.

So, really, this claim, as scum, is only a short-term solution that, for scum, buys a day of life at most.

The claim is complete fabricated bullshit. Votes please.

Explain. Why do you think that it's fake?

[Mastin]

This game sometimes seems to play out like a movie--This certainly isn't a movie, though. When people get close to deadlines in movies, they always make the right move to avoid being killed, the life sucked out of them, etc. In this game, not as much. If we don't have any better suspects, I'd honestly be divided between two things when we approach deadline hours.
1: A no lynch. We lose any information that a lynch would provide, and the only info in the day would be the dead pro-town player.
2: Lynching Seraph, the person with the most votes. I believe his claim, so I believe we'd be lynching a pro-town player. It gives us more information, sure, but is it really worth it?
On the assumption of three scum, I'd do the math myself as to how each would benefit us, but, I, uh, have never been good at math compared to many others. (I'm far from lazy, yea, but I'm more active in my physical activities than mental ones [Not that I'm that strong, either...], hence, don't expect me to do a twenty-step equation in my sleep)
*Is vaguely aware of how people honestly don't care about his life, sensing it even over the internet*
Anyway,

A Doctor would work in the same way -- the protection would be transferred from Seraphim to the person Seraphim hid behind. That means the Doctor would protect himself or herself. And when that occurs, then a nightkill against that Doctor would fail (because they are protected), and also, a nightkill against Seraphim would fail (because he would be hiding). So in effect both would be immune to single nightkills for the entirety of the game.

I have definite problems with believing that.

I can, for several reasons:
1: I find no problem with two people being able to automatically defend each other.
2: We don't know for certain that the loophole exists.
3: The mod might've determined this before the game started.
4: I've seen first-hand on other sites docs and bodyguards, and bodyguards with watchers, making them practically immune to scum night kills.

Of course, if they're unbelieved and lynched, or there is more than one mafia, they still have a fair chance of losing.

As a point to consider -- and I have pondered whether or not this is an appropriate consideration, and I believe it is -- if Seraphim is telling the truth about his role, then the town might just lose the additional lynch we have gained by having no nightkills last night.

More than that.
1: Scum might've just lynched the person they had tried to kill--in other words, we might've done their job.
2: While it is probable we have more roles that could be responsible for the lack of a kill, there is no guarantee. If Seraph's claim is legit, he might be the only role capable of stopping a kill. *VERY* doubtful, yes, but a possibility nonetheless.

I am Kon. Due to my compact body, I can hide with one person every night in their packs, shielding me from NKs. However, anyone tracking me via "spirit threads" will get confused and find the person I hid behind instead.

Hmm...*checks inbox for Mastin's role*
Comparing flavors.
Result:
80/20 on it feeling like it matches the flavor of my own role PM, belief's favor.

I will emphasize that deadline is Monday morning (closer to Sunday evening) in forum time, and that we must reach a full majority in order to lynch anybody in this game.

So soon? *swears*!
I'll have to quickly ponder over whether to vote someone I believe is innocent for the sake of lynching someone for information (Seraph), or letting there be a no lynch.

The tanned grey haired dude who goes around Soul Society topless trying to destory it, yeno... FILLER BOSS MAN.(Vampires)

AKA, the Bunto in the Japanese version, and the Bounts in the English version.

Do Mod Souls even have spirit threads?

Strongly believe the answer is yes--Nova and Matsumoto had to combine their energy in one episode. While, in comparison to the mainstream manga, the Bount arcs aren't considered as canonical, neither are the movies which I watch (and love to think about actually being in. [/Bleach Nerd]) as often as I can.
Anyway, as this is a Bleach game, it is probable that the Mod would consider it to be fully canonical, hence, I believe the answer is yes.

Also, if Seraphim is legit, it would seem to imply there is a tracker in this game. *scribbles down a note on what he already has written down*
Why else would the mod mention spirit thread tracking? For a vig? Doesn't work out as well.

[Mastin]

1: Why not?

Simple, really. It depends on the setup. There might be loopholes that allow for one of the two to be killed during the night, when they think they are invincible. Or sometimes, the scum have an ability to counter-act the protection roles. Seraph seemed to clarify with the mod on the matters of roleblocking, implying he can be roleblocked, which implies there is a roleblocker, hence, a way for the protection to fail. That's just an example from first-hand experience on another site.

4> A game with two protection roles is a little different then a game with a protection and a complex hider role. We are talking about a role that has been altered, not a pre-existing role. And how does bodyguards and watchers make anything immune to anything?I'm not understanding something there...

Well, if there's only one scum left, if they shoot at the watcher, the bodyguard protects them, and if they shoot at the bodyguard, the watcher exposes them. Yet if they have two mafia left, they may sacrifice one to take out the bodyguard.

Also, a fifth I forgot about:

5: Who says we have a doctor? With my role and on my notes on roles, I find it to be a very, very strong possibility, yes, but there is no certainty on the matter.

Funny because it in no way matches mine. But that's probably because I'm a totally different role and I don't own a pack. You do know that there is litterally only one part of his flavor I can even speculate that could match another so... if this was some way of trying to be subtle it wasn't very good...

The way it is worded has about an 80% accuracy to the flavor given for my role. Which is why I'm believing the claim. Either,
1: It is as you said: Scumphim was given a safe claim,
2: Scumphim got lucky with the wording,
or
3: It is legit.

I don't see any other options available.

What is wrong with lynching Zee? I like that idea... That should make everyone happy...

I have no problems with lynching Zee, but at the moment, do not support it. (I wish I had more time to think about the actions taken in this game and weigh them carefully)
There's also one small problem:
Zee doesn't have nearly as many votes, so either people have the quickest turnaround possible, we keep on debating to the deadline (no lynch), or Seraphim is lynched.

So either this is a really bad attempt to cover up your really bad subtlety or you are just plain lying about something... And your comments about thinking about lynching sera really make me doubt what I'm thinking about you. I'm seriously considering if it is worth the added pressure I'll get to ask you to tell us what exactly about his flavor matches because... You're giving us mixed signals and this close to deadline that's really bad to be doing...

Whoops. I should've said what I was scribbling down on. I had forgotten about the possibility of a tracker in the game, as while it is one of the most common roles on other sites, it seems to be rather rare on here. In my list of what people I see as being what roles, I hadn't considered a tracker. Now that I have, I have a few theories as to who a hypothetical tracker would be, hence, have written them down for reference when it comes to mass-claim time to help me determine whether I believe the claims or not.

I cannot explain anything more about the flavors without claiming my role, and that, at this stage in the game, would be rather...anti-productive.

My personal list of who I'd think would be a good lynch:

Green. Not gonna happen, unless you can get seven votes in a few hours, but I have gotten very bad vibes from the tone of his posts. I can give further details if necessary.

Albert--Albert's just Albert. I can't get a read on whether this is just his style, or extremely (in my opinion) anti-town behavior. Wants to see someone lynched very badly, to say the least, and has flat-out said he wants a speedlynch.

Okay then, I could go for a speedlynch of someone else. But not Korlash, and not Gorrad.

I do not know about Korlash, Gorrad, or Phil (call them neutral), and Glados has acted pro-town.
My personal experience meta on X shows that X is contributing far less than what I know of, but then again, that was just one newbie game, so I don't really know, however, the discrepancy is...troublesome. For those reasons, X would be my third choice.

Zee and Seraph both are scummy, yet haven't fallen into the top three, since I believe Seraph's claim (hence, making him not scum, in my eyes), and Zee just takes fourth.

That said, I'm voting where my suspicions lie.

Mastin Votes: Green

.

[Mastin]

Hey folks. Hiders who target scum die. Seraphim doesn't because he's super special and OGML is giving him a super cool ability? No. Stop getting cold feet.

There are any number of reasons why hiders who hide behind scum won't die--most of all, mods putting spins on classic roles.
I'll go make a bold statement which I do believe:
It wouldn't be a good themed game without at least one role which has a new spin to it.
Seraphim's claimed role fits this description perfectly.

Mastin, this is me skimming your posts because Easter weekend is a bad time for a deadline. And this is my response: -blank-. Will be happy to talk on the morrow.

Speechless? (*Is a little speechless at Green's Speechlessness*. Oh, well. On Easter, my responses are also a little rushed, so I understand.)
I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Seraphim, as I meant with 451, has claimed a role so unbelievable that I actually am in favor of believing it.

There's a wiki article on this. Scum do crazy things, sometimes, going as far as to sacrifice their vote for the whole game for the sake of a claim. Which is why the logic behind believing this is null.
However, that said, I don't think it's unbelievable--rather the opposite, I find that it fits perfectly into this game.

Mastin's complete bullshit argument about comparable flavor and sentence structure should be ignored through and through.

Why? Because it'll help expose the scum? Read your PM's. Just do it once. Then compare it to Seraphim's paraphrased PM.
If they sound the same, chances are that Seraphim is legit, unless one of the first two reasons I listed is true.

Anyone not voting for these two should be a favorite lynch contender tomorrow.

And if they flip town? I must say, the opposite would be true--those ON the wagons should be a very good candidate for lynching tomorrow, ESPECIALLY if the person lynched flips power role that could've been useful to the town.

Gladdos makes no exception, of course.

Of course not. She does look extremely pro-town, but that doesn't eliminate anything scummy from view. It hurts the town to have tunnel blindness.

I will have no more of this whimsical garbage about her being our flowery pro-town savior. Your naivety disgusts me.

Let me just say this:
If she's scum, she's been playing better than almost every player here currently, and at this time, she would deserve the win.

Its better to risk lynching a power role with the reward of catching a scum, than to no-lynch with the consequence of never finding a scum.

Not always. Especially when there was a no kill, and you could be lynching the REASON for that no kill.

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." -Wayne Gretzky

And if your shot ricochets, you'll be feeling lousy with the bullet in your leg.

I feel like ripping the living spleen out of players like these who have no balls whatsoever. Insisting on useless, symbolic actions like that. No respect whatsoever for Mastin's play here.

Answer me this, if you can:
Why vote a player you do not think is scum, just because the deadline is approaching? Especially when they're a claimed power role, which could have prevented a kill the night before?
Yea, I don't think Seraphim is scum. I think Green is, and when I have more time, I can outline why. I'm voting where my suspicion is. Do you have a problem with that?

[Mastin]

I have a post typed up about the cases on Albert and X, and along with a few more of my thoughts, but it's at a different computer than what I am currently using. I'll probably post it in a few hours (read: by my time, ~4 pm, and if not then, ~8 pm).
Needless to say, Phil is not what I expected--I was thinking Phil might've been a mason, or something, based off of another one/two people who I also suspected are masons.
As it stands, though, I question if I should post all of it. Needless to say, while previous play by Albert can be interpreted as scum tells,
1: I know not his style, and it could be just that,
and
2: His play today definitely makes me question my earlier suspicions.

Vote Gorrad

Phil appeared to have a guilty.

Possible. I'll have to check back on that...

So no one at all cares that Mastin claimed his flavor matched Sera yet... Sera was scum? Funny, that's kinda the only thing I could think about all night...

To clarify,
The way the flavor was worded was almost an exact match to the flavor wording in my PM.
I raise this point in my document.

HUYD XTOXM IS THE SECOND SCUM.

I am sure.

Let's lynch him.

Vote: Xtoxm

Believe it or not, I believe this, Albert.
...But there's more to it than that.

He might be egotistical enough to think it would have worked (I don't know the guy), but that would still leave the potental for him to be exposed if Seraphim perished at any other point.

As scum, I'd never defend my partner unless either,
1: It is lylo and it benefits me to do so in the hopes of a mislynch.
2: The attack against my partner is so unjust that it makes the attacker look like the scummiest player alive. (In this case, other players ALSO defend the attacked and attack the attacker)

And anyone who speculates on who the cop might have investigated and the result of it is doing something extremely scummy.

It depends on who the cop is--I, for example, as cop make it painfully obvious who my targets are. Defending the town from going after one of my results, hounding a guilty in an attempt to get that person lynched.
Yet some players actually DEFEND their guilties just to appear to be less likely to be the cop.
It really depends on the player who flips cop.

Mastin is new here and hasn't grasped the mechanics of the game yet.

In Coney island, yes, I am new. In Newbie games, I've completed two real ones. I wouldn't call myself 'new', but I find this assessment to be accurate.

I really want to know his flavor

There's no way to give flavor without claiming, to my knowledge.

My flavor also matched Seraphim's flavor; I just didn't say anything.

Ah, that explains some things...

I'd vote X, where many of my suspicions also lie, but that'd be L-2, which could lead to a quick lynch very easily.

[Mastin]

L-2 means that there still needs to be three votes before that player is lynched. That's a lot. Please place your vote where your suspicion lies.

No, L-2 is two votes away from a lynch.
L-3 is what X is currently at, three votes before a lynch, with 2/5 currently on X.

[Mastin]

As far as Mastin goes, it's very possible that the mod gave the 'Kon' fakeclaim knowing that Mastin's role would back it up.

I seriously doubt it. I think he just got lucky with a falseclaim...

due to Philly's Role, we may well be looking at multiple mafias

A theory which I have typed up is the possibility of there being a mafia traitor who was targeted night one as well. This is Bleach--we know the mafia are hollows, yet because of the...complex...interactions between Hollows, anything could be possible.

but as the SK's ALSO a hollow I think we may be looking at either a non-Hollow mafia partner (given flavor of "Hollow Mafia", unlikely) or another anti-town altogether.

There are foils for this.
1: My traitor theory,
2: Mafia godfathers
3: Non-hollow mafia. We don't know for certain that Phil's killer was a hollow--

"Enemy detected..." you hear, in a familiar yet otherworldly voice. Is that PhilyEc? He sounds almost detached. Then the sounds of battle ensue.

Nowhere does it say hollow.

[Mastin]

I prefer typing things at night, you know, when not many people are on--so that I don't post and miss another post and all that. >_>

... Worded? Was it one word, or multiple? Was it phrases or simple words?

The way it was phrased seemed almost an exact match to the way my role PM is phrased. I believed the claim was paraphrased because of how similar it was.

[Mastin]

X right now seems kinda like Jester material--

Don's an idiot in-universe,
He's saying to lynch him,
he refuses to give the details of his role.
But this is the perfect thing to fake when scum as well. I'm probably just overthinking things.

Which would mean his lynch would end the game, with his victory, if that's correct.

Anyway, promised material:

WARNING:

Long post follows.

This was typed just before the topic was locked, but I was not quick enough to post it.

You have no idea whether Seraphim is town or not.

The same can be said for the opposite--you have no idea whether Seraphim is scum or not.

ADDED NOTE: Well, what do you know? Albert WAS right. :/

Even if he has the slightest chance of being scum, he should be killed to avoid a deadline no-lynch.

He also has a much higher chance of being town.
Also, this sounded like you think Seraph is town. Explain, please.

ADDED NOTE: He wasn’t…and I suck. I really, really, suck. :/

If he did in fact prevent a NK yesterday night, it will not happen again because the scum have the knowledge of his role.

This is true.

The reality of this is that there is no more time to be spared. If you have something to say, say it now or be silent. Your uncooperative, anti-town demeanor is noted.

Alright, short version short, for you.

-I think Seraph will flip Kon, like he said he was.

ADDED NOTE: Wrong-o. Due to the flavor being so accurate, I have come to one of two conclusions:
1: The scum have safe claims—which is bad for us, to say the least. It makes sense, as Korlash pointed out, and in addition to that, it’s kinda hard to believe the way he claimed his PM almost exactly matched mine.
2: Seraph got very lucky with the way he worded his role, as it was almost an exact match to what I have in my PM.

-I think Green is scum, amongst other reasons, due to what I see as attempts to push for whatever lynch he thinks might stick.

<--Far less certain, now.
-

I am not as sure as Albert, but I find his posts, for the most part, anti-town. I'd need to read up on his previous games to see about this, though.

<--Am leaning towards town.
-X's attitude here, in comparison to my meta on him, is a large difference, and I find it suspicious, to say the least.
-I think Glados is town.

Anything else?

You have no idea whether Seraphim is town or not...that is, if you're town, which I think the chances of that being much higher than those of Seraphim.

And you ha

ve

d no idea whether Seraphim

i

was scum or not, unless you are scum.
The same logic works for the reverse, you know, except your attitude was guilty until proven innocent.
Is that your style?

ADDED NOTE: So he was guilty—it doesn’t change the general fact that guilty until proven innocent is an extremely anti-town attitude.

Also, if the scum make a mistake and don't NK, that doesn't mean we're going to start giving them freebies. Get a hold of yourself Mastin.

I'm not comprehending.

So, are you saying it would be a mistake for the scum to kill?
I didn't understand that at all.

Crunched on time

Aren't we all...

Unvote: Albert B. Rampage, Vote: Seraphim

*sighs*

Watch as he flips Kon.
Seraph, if you're on, you can save me/others the embarrassment of waiting for the results and just tell us that you are(/n't) Kon.

ADDED NOTE: It would appear our mod was online as I was typing it, and locked the topic before anything of content could be said. Yup, I was wrong…really wrong. I knew the role sounded like a stretch, but the flavor made perfect sense, and moderators almost always add twists to characters, so I believed the claim. I’ll wait to see how the night turns out, and if anyone is killed during the night.

---

Well, I’ve got three days to type. Unless the scum cut the time short (which I hope is not the case—these things take AGES to type, you know. I’ve spent half a week on a single post, you know, and the average time is two hours per post, in typing time.), I should have plenty of time, without procrastinating.

If the town sees this before the endgame, that means I was not night killed; thank you, as this is my first themed game and I don’t want my time to be cut short. I have much to offer in the way of theories, some crazy, some insane, and some rather anti-town ones, which I won’t reveal for them being anti-town.

THEORIES:

As Seraph was reeking of scum, and the ONLY thing that stopped people from lynching him before, was his claim, it is likely his buddies condemned him to death. Hence, of the six listed here, (Green Crayons, PhilyEc, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage, Jebus, GLaDOS), it is probable at least one is scum.
Further reasoning: Before the comment on the night, did ANYONE think Seraphim was suspicious/scum? I saw no such concerns.
ADDED NOTE IN-POST: Far less certain now.

I believe that nobody defending Seraphim was scum (Phil was, for a while). Again, the only thing preventing me from lynching him was the fact that his wording seemed very similar to that of my own PM. Hence, to defend him would have been suicidal, leaving the next day, two out of three scum likely going to be dead.

There is a fair chance that, if two mafia weren’t on Seraphim, the other was either likely on ZEE at some point in time, or never voted for anyone at all (again, due to the fact that nobody thought ZEE was scum before his post). Unless ZEE is the mafia, as he wasn’t voting. ZEE and X, the two not voting at the deadline, both expressed concern over Seraphim, yet didn’t vote for him—why?

Phil called Seraphim practically confirmed town—yet still voted for him—why?

No longer relevant.
Not knowing the outcome of the night, any of my suspects could be killed, but this is being typed for those who would live.

Something which occurred to me that hadn’t occurred to me before:
What if we have a traitor? You know, if shot by the mafia, becomes a Mafioso? Flavor-wise, there is one character that fits ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY into that mentality. Anyone with any Bleach knowledge should know who I speak of. It would explain the lack of the kill n1 as well.
So, be weary: we might, just might, have more mafia than anticipated. Sure, there’s *always* that possibility, but most of the town is under the impression of three mafia. I’m keeping an open mind on the matter, as I don’t want to be surprised.

I also saw a very strong possible mason breadcrumb (either that, or mafia code), but I shalln’t reveal something which would only harm the town (

I have pegged down who these masons would be character-wise if existing, and perhaps somewhat of an idea of who they are

Phil was one of three of my mason suspects, and we know that's no longer true. Ignore me).

I’ve scribbled down more notes on roles, what characters could have what role. I am stopping myself from writing down who I find to probably BE these characters, as that is something I obviously have trouble deducing. *points to Seraphim*

---

I promised that I’d give my reasons for suspecting

Green, Albert, and

X, in that order. Let’s do X first, for it is the quickest.

-Seraphim’s random vote was on X’s predecessor, GhostWriter. Not much, but it’s ridiculous how many times I’ve seen mafia buss partners with a random vote on their partner.
-X replaced in, but said nothing for a whole page. Lurking?
Possible, though he says that he replaced into another game.
-X expresses a wish to lynch Albert (possible buss), yet lynches Zwet due to the deadline. Right here:

I would much rather lynch ABR, but whatever, nothing's gonna change.

Vote Zwet

Sorry man.

-X admits that the wagon on Zwet was an excuse for a scum lynch, despite being on the wagon himself.

I was right about Zwet. He wasn't scum, just because he turned out to be anti-town doesn't change anything.

Which, to me, is a reference to his earlier post, saying ‘nothing has changed about the circumstances of the lynch’, meaning his opinion still stood, which he expresses here

It's playstyle. Same as why i'm mislynched most the time. And you'll probably speedlynch him in a couple days...

And here:

No, but I don't find him scummy, and i'm not liking the manner in which he's being attacked.

And even further back, right here:

The Zwet wagon looks like a scum excuse to lynch a townie based on playstyle.

By stating on day two that nothing has changed, it means his opinion on the wagon is the same—that the scum were likely on it…yet he, himself, was on said wagon.

Vote Gorrad

Nope, no reasoning here. Just a vote...with no reasoning…which is scummy. Did anyone ever ask WHY he voted Gorrad? Checking those pages now, but I find it odd that nobody noticed…

A threat like that isn't going to work GC. And I am engaged and i'm not below the activity level either.

Nope, not seeing anyone question his vote. It would appear he got away with a no-reasoning vote. Admits to lurking, right there.

Which doesn’t fit my meta on X.

For reference, Newbie 742 is how I know him.

Unvote Vote Seraphim

He stalls and then doesn't claim. If he was town he wouldn't need time to think, he just had to claim.

X’s logic makes sense, and it turns out, he was right.

FoS: Xtoxm

Very easily a weak bus against X.
Or a subtle way of saying “Get the *censored* off me, partner!”

Unvote

Please expand.

Does the pro-town thing of wanting more details. A point in X’s favor.

I don't think your questions were even aimed at me, I think they were an attempt to put me in a bad light.

While most of this post is pro-town, this, again seemed like a scummy comment to make—reading to me as “I don’t like how you’re putting me in the spotlight”…and only scum should fear taking the heat of their actions. It could theoretically also read as “I don’t like your bussing, Green, against me.” But that’s a stretch by any standards.

Could you give more detail on your PM

Asks for more detail.

(On a side note, on a reread, I accidentally picked up another role hint from another person when rereading, but I would prefer to not state it at this point in time—it relates to my mason theory and if I am correct about this hint, it would also explain the gameplay of the player who dropped it concerning a certain matter. Another section of the game just reinforced this theory. [AND ANOTHER just a little later on. I’m picking up on a LOT of them, now.]
Up to the point where I would be surprised if the player who dropped these tells is NOT who I suspect they are. I won’t reveal such information yet, though, as it would only harm the town. There’s another person I see linked to this person in subtle ways. I will say no more)

Xtoxm, GC, what exactly are you talking about? Do you want the flavor for my role PM as well? Straight-forward questions and I will give you straight-forward answers.

Despite the other people talking, only addresses X and Green. This is a very possible buddy tell. “Hey, buddies, stop fighting! We need to get a townie lynched, NOW!”

A stretch, of course, but I find it odd that Seraph was addressing them alone.

Not much, but it is very worthy of note.
Sum-up:
-His play doesn’t match my town meta of him
-Seraphim and Green have been the two players I see addressing him the most later on, although early on it was Glados and Phil
-X wanted to lynch one person, yet deadline lynched another
-X admitted that nothing had changed, as in, he still thought that the scum were on Zwet’s wagon, yet he, himself, dropped the hammer on said wagon.

[Mastin]

If we have a traitor, he's it.
(Seriously, I've watched those first episodes so many times, I might as well have them be the first actual Bleach Movie to me, instead of Memories of Nobody. )

Think about it--he was devoured (attacked) by a Hollow, and then became one.
Sounds like a traitor to me.

Jibakurai

Jib appeared in Episode two, so I suppose it does fit, but the events of this game were around Episode Eleven--which is why the Fisher and Menos Grande were given as most probables by Korlash.

(forgot villager = townie on mafiascum, sorry!)

I've done that. Called a vanilla townie a 'blue' at least twice in a single post. Caught it once, missed it the other time.

Anyways, as you can tell from what I posted, I think Gorrad is scum.

I tend to disagree with this point. I have my reasonings, but like you, it would be more harmful than helpful to post them.

Hmm. That is definitely an interesting theory (about which Hollows are in the game), and my own role tends to corrobate the theory. I may choose to claim after Xtoxm fully claims, but I will need to think on it.

Can't say that I'm of any help in this matter--my own role doesn't mention any possible hollows in the game, and I will say nothing more on the matter, for it would be a strong hint at my own role.

[Mastin]

ZEE, if you have something that clears Xtoxm, say it. Without hard evidence, he's pretty clearly the lynch in my eyes.

Agreed, BUT

Wait for X to FULLY claim FIRST.

[Mastin]

Missed this line:

NO JESTER SPECULATION!!!!!!!!!

If we never assume there is a Jester, then they'll win far more often than if we did.

[Mastin]

So. WHAT?!?!?

So, if the Jester wins, that player does, but nobody else--town or scum--does. Which we can agree is universally bad.

[Mastin]

Notes:

Albert brings up a good point about the namecop.
Korlash didn't claim what I expected. I picked up LOTS of tells from him that would suggest another role...
Glados's ability makes sense.

More importantly,

I have a line in my role PM which suggests that I could have some hidden talent.
Given my character, though, I severely doubt that this would be the case.

I dislike how many claims we've seen in less than 12 hours.

Also, X, Korlash...who have you targeted? I'd think if they knew they got some sort of extra ability, they'd instantly know about it, hence, able to confirm/deny this event from happening...

[Mastin]

Apologies--fell behind due to my internet.
Quoting what I see as the highlights of the last two pages here.

Does what i claim contradict any tells? Otherwise what's the point of this? it seems like you're throwing subtle doubt into my claim without actually saying it.

I thought you were Urahara--you dropped LOADS of Urahara tells--I have them in a document. They were all over the place, really.
Anyway, your claim does make sense, and I KNOW who you targeted n1 from a post of yours at some point in the game that I will not reveal (you made it too obvious, Korlash). It makes sense.

Mastin had made it look like he was claiming Tracker and half confirming Sera's story.

Nope.

The fact that K has the same role as good as confirms me.

Our Mod DOES like pairs of two--two Martrs, two vanillas, four partially night-kill immune townies, etc. Which does, indeed, make it far more believable, but not instantly confirming you, X.

Mastin, you should start choosing sides by now. Lines have been drawn.

I am definitely not liking Green's attitude in the game so far. He seems to be pushing for any lynch that will stick, and has done so from the beginning--his posts show logic, but they, again, seem to be trying to purposefully set up early lynches, and lynches for the next day.
X's style of play doesn't fit my meta on him as town,
Korlash's claim conflicts with what I thought, and is a rather minor character, yet his overall play has been good for rather some time now,
Glados is very pro-town, and I definitely believe the claim,
Green brought up a good point about Jebus,
Zee's play yesterday was questionable, but his play today makes perfect sense... (and seems pro-town)

No, I can't take a side yet, as I am both
1: Behind, due to internet failures,
2: Still weighing earlier evidence and claims.

The different sides both also contain players who I find scummy, and players I find pro-town.

Also, cut the setup discussion, its not helping the town.

I'll try, for the simple reasoning that I don't want to become known as the electician or something like that for outing

power

roles.
On more serious notes, yes, I'll try to hold back, though at this stage in the game, I believe a fair amount of setup speculation will help.

Erg0 has the arrogance of a player that thinks he is above everyone else for being right once.

*ponders his own playstyle and compares it to Green's* Hmm... (I've been accused of this before, so it was an interesting point...)
I'll need to think about this point.

This may be the most callous and most insulting thing I have ever seen in a game of mafia -- and it is directed at both Mastin and to ZEEnon.

I take no offense at something that is at least partially true--I take my experience from previous games, and another site which works...a little differently from here (epicmafia.com. I know ZEE's a player there as well. We've played a few matches here and there, I believe, a long time ago). Of the players here, it is true that I am very probably the one with the least experience.
Can't speak for ZEE on this point, though.

---

*points to self*
See the person I'm pointing to? Yea, he's worthless. He's at an all-time low in scum hunting.

[Mastin]

NOTE: Edited out some information, but otherwise, haven't changed anything.

I strongly believe that Korlash is Urahara.
He dropped a tell about his favorite characters being Urahara and the kids, covering with the Golden group.
And he dropped a serious tell right here:

I would like to throw my hat into the ring of asking

Who’s the only Bleach character who wears a hat?
Further hints:

would be a great name for some

industrial cleaning solution?

Also would you mind pointing out what and where these suspicions are for

us deaf and dumb people like me that need constant reassurance?

Or do you still need time to find something that sounds remotely good enough to pass off? I would think seven pages isn't that hard to

manufacture a sutable answer

.

Bolded is an obvious reference to Urahara’s age. Underlined is a sign of Urahara’s shop—stuff like that is common place there.

See I don't really like being attacked from the sidelines by a benched player is all.

Urahara, for the most part, takes the sidelines in a fight, on the bench, really.

Gorrad are you feeling it? You know, it? Yes? no? Ok...

Possible hint at Gorrad-Korlash partnership. (Which related to my mason theory)

but you're on to me here. I do know something but it's definitly not what you are thinking. Unless you are thinking strange things...

Hints at his role.

... I like to think I'm everyone's boss... And you're fired...

This was what originally tipped me off—Urahara is the owner (boss) of his shop, and could fire any of his employees if he so chose. It took a while to hit me, but it did.

This is no more then me backing up what's happened in the past

Urahara has a rather long past.

I doubt Urahara is in it simply because he took a more sideline approach in this battle.

This is the ONLY thing which makes me doubt Korlash is Urahara, although it could be just a setup—crumbing taking a sideline in the battle, and mentioning being attacked from the sideline, could be a way of countering it, stating subtly that Urahara is in the game.

Then again neither was I... Hmmm... Well I mean I suppose i was in a way... sorta...

Urahara wasn’t really in the fight. But he was ‘sort of’ in it.

Of course, some tells of these can also be applied for Korlash's claim, like the "<3 Chadokun" he dropped.

[Mastin]

7. Mastin - claimed latent abilities

To be more accurate, said there was the possibility I had latent abilities. I hadn't thought about it, and actually doubt I do, but the possibility exists.

My current top suspect would still be Green,
I don't fully believe X's claim, although it makes sense,
I think Korlash almost certainly was telling the truth on his claim,
Glados's claim makes perfect sense to me,
and Zee's about to claim.

Not much else I can think of.

[Mastin]

Notes:

I am more than willing to claim, and while I believe the scum have safeclaims, I want to make sure of this. Both Jebus and Albert could, theoretically (if scum), claim my role, in which case, the town has at least a 50/50 shot at hitting scum.

Gorrad's claim itself seemed initially believable, but I have extreme doubts about it now.
I'm beginning to see a pattern in the claims, and have formatted an opinion about who the scum's safeclaims are, based off of my own role. When I do claim, I will tell you exactly what this is.

I still have some doubts about Green, X, and to a lesser extent, Albert as well, but Gorrad's claim seems rather BS'd. I'll give Gorrad one more chance to defend himself, before I put my vote on him.
I'd do it now, but I know not the vote count.
(Perfect timing, though--this should be the start of a new page)

[Mastin]

My Theory (Killed)

Don't worry, Zee.
I've got one to replace yours. Just wait.

First of all, Jebus is either,
1: Scum with knowledge of what the PM for townies look like, along with who they are, what their flavor is, etc.,
Or,
2: Jebus is confirmed town.

It goes into my role PM.

I'll ask the mod if the wording I wanted to use would be acceptable. Needless to say, I'm Kiego, and Jebus's summary of his PM matches, well, EVERYTHING about mine. I was terrified that I was the only vanilla townie.

My theory:

I've noticed something about the claims.

Gorrad--Rukia. A main character.
Glados--Chad. A main character.

Every other player who has claimed:
Minor characters.

Note that only two have claimed major characters.
Two players alive.
Everyone thinks there are two scum still around.
In addition to that, Gorrad claimed to be one of the strongest roles in the game, yet Rukia was powerless at the time.

What I'm saying is that I think every town player is a minor character, caught by three or so rogue hollows (plus the sk). All the major characters are off fighting somewhere else, and the hollows KNOW this.

Which would mean Gorrad and Glados would be our scum.

Opinions?

[Mastin]

I'll give you the full claim when the mod approves of my wording.

Jebus was either told EXACTLY, word for word, what to claim, or his claim is legit. There's absolutely no way his claim could match mine so perfectly otherwise.

[Mastin]

And, for the record, Glados has been acting pro-town for the most part, so I would much prefer the lynching of Gorrad first to prove my theory.
If Gorrad is scum, we lynch Glados.
If Gorrad is town, I'm a moron. You may reserve the right to ignore any theory of mine in the future.

I will claim.




I am...
[space removed]
Kurosaki
[space removed]
Karin.

You had me terrified there, for a second, that I was wrong. Then I saw the 'Karin' part, and I went '...oh.'

[Mastin]

Bah. Mod denied it. I'll try rewording it.

[Mastin]

FULL CLAIM:

As I said, I'm Kiego Asano. I'm very active and a bit paranoid (possible hints at latent abilities involving running/investigation) student. I'm vaguely spiritually aware (further possible hint at latent abilities involving investigation).

My win condition is the town, obviously. I wasn't even told what Kiego's role was, although it wasn't hard to guess it was vanilla townie.

[/claim]
So, thusfar, correct me if I am wrong:

Claims:
Mastin---Kiego, Minor C., Townie.
Jebus---Mizuiro, Minor C., Townie.
Albert---Karin, Minor C., ?
Green---A spirit kid, Minor C., passive ability.
X---Don, Minor C., Enabler.
Korlash---Different spirit kid, Minor C., Enabler.
ZEE---Yuzu, Minor C., Nurse.

Glados---Chad, Major C., One-shot bulletproof.
Gorrad---Rukia, Major C., Jailer.

Gorrad's claim seems bs.
1: Rukia couldn't cast BASIC kido at the time. Six Rods is 50. She couldn't do that until the Hueco Mundo arc.
2: Six rods imprisons, alright, but how on earth, soul society, Hueco Mundo, or whatever, do they protect?
3: Jailkeeper would overpower the town,
4: He was only one of two major character claims.
Did I miss anything? Gorrad, you've got one chance to defend yourself before you earn my vote.

[Mastin]

Swear to me that you will lynch Glados tomorrow and I will vote for Gorrad on the spot. I want your oath signed in blood though.

If Gorrad flips scum, there's not a chance that I'd NOT vote Glados. If he's town, then my theory is flawed.

[Mastin]

I have no defense. I did not write the setup. I cannot tell you why I have the role I do. Lynch me if you want, but get ZEEnon tomorrow.

Kthnxdienao.

I am satisfied that we have enough info for today. Albert's claim was satisfactory (contrary to what Glados says), in my eyes (also, Zee seems to confirm Albert), and Gorrad blew his chance to defend himself.
More than enough for me.
Anyone object to a hammer? (BESIDES Glados)

[Mastin]

No point in waiting. When people scream, "Hammer", multiple times, there's pretty much nothing constructive left in the day.

Mastin Votes: Gorrad

.

[Mastin]

oh btw, reveal Glados' alt.

Wouldn't that, umm, be a main?

[Mastin]

Thoughts on Day four:
(Note to GLaDOS: As I said later on during the post, sorry for this; it was just my thoughts based off of ME being the night-kill)
I was dead. Yet I wanted to say stuff so badly. For your entertainment, my thoughts,
In order:
"Oh, hey, it's the next day and the mod posted a scene! SWEET! I can play a mafia game again!"
*clicks last page*
*scrolls down to Gorrad's death*
*sees the top of the next picture*
"Oh, hey, that looks kinda like--" (my picture)
*scrolls down some more*
"Ah, shi--" (there's a letter missing. Use your brain to figure out which. )
(After seeing the picture, I realized I was dead.)

*reads flavor*

"HOLY *BLEEP*! I WAS RIGHT! I *WAS* A LATENT INVESTIGATIVE ROLE!"

(Also at this time, "*Mastin Incorporated Censor* you to *Mastin Incorporated Censor*, mafia! I WANTED TO PLAY!")

*Zee votes GLaDOS*
"DIE SCUM, DIE DIE DIE!" (Directed at GLaDOS)

*Albert Reveals he's a mason*
"Wait, aren't you supposed to be a cop?"
*Korlash claims blocked*
"Roleblocker? Well, it's common in most games, like newbie games, so why not?"

*People look at my posts, but fail to point out everything I said*

"HEY, YOU MORONS! READ EVERYTHING I SAY! I SAID THAT JEBUS IS CLEAR! HIS PM IS NEARLY IDENTICAL TO MINE! READ!

READ!

JEBUS IS C-L-E-A-R! SPELL IT OUT, YOU *chain of swears*!"

(Around this time, I PM'd the name of GLaDOS as the last mafia to the mod, because I couldn't hold back the temptation any longer)

*Albert catches on for a while*

"YES! *Mastin Incorporated Censor* *Larger censor* (Use your imagination as to what two words I just censored out) YES, ALBERT! You're on the right track! KEEP GOING!"

*GLaDOS reveals main*
"O_O"
(That's the best way to describe my thoughts)

*Korlash says things about Jebus's claim*

"Look, Korlash, get the facts straight. I WAS A VANILLA TOWNIE. JEBUS CLAIMED THE SAME, IN THE EXACT SAME WAY.
I didn't think Seraphim was clear. The way his claim was worded was the same way mine was, and Albert's, and dozens of others.
Furthermore, I SAID JEBUS IS CLEAR. I didn't say the same for Seraphim. I said his matched mine, not that he was clear. I said that Jebus's was a nearly identical to mine, and that he WAS CLEAR.

I said that I was a vanilla, but told everyone why I thought there might've been a hint of further abilities.

*further ranting by me on the matter*

Needless to say, Korlash pointing out how I seemed to be tracker, when--by coincidence--I was one DID make me laugh--hard.

"AND GLaDOS IS THE LAST MAFIA! I WAS KILLED FOR A REASON, YOU KNOW! GLaDOS IS TRYING TO FRAME JEBUS, WHO I SAID IS CLEAR, AND SAVE HERSELF BECAUSE I SPECIFICALLY SAID ALL MAJOR CHARACTER CLAIMS ARE SCUM. Screw Seraphim's Kon Claim. Their wording is probably something like 'all major characters are off fighting hollows' and he likely interpreted Kon as a major enough character."

Not game-related:
"I think AceMarksman said something that I wanted to quote at the beginning of the day. Along the lines of *Mastin Incorporated Censor* *Larger Censor* YES!, when talking about avoiding lylo. In our case, a perfect town game. So I'd hope, IF THEY LYNCH THAT LAST SCUMBAG!"

---
If you couldn't tell, I get rather emotional when I'm night-killed. (I think the reason some people shoot me on Epicmafia is just to see me get angry, cursing away during the whole game, pointing out scumslips, just so that they can spectate aferwards and see said hilarity. )
---
Keep in mind that this was all typed up at 4/28-29/09 as a rough interpretation of my thoughts. Further updates will come as they are posted until the game is over so that I can actually post this.


4/29/09
*Green votes Jebus*

"JEBUS IS

CLEAR

!

CLEAR, I SAID! CLEAR, CLEAR, CLEAR! READ ALL OF

*MY*

POSTS, *Mastin Incorporated Censor* it!"

*Albert votes Jebus*

"GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
WHY?!?
WHY DO THEY IGNORE THE PART WHERE I SAY JEBUS IS CLEAR? WHY?!? Why don't they realize that GLaDOS killed me to stop me from voting her, AND to stop me from telling them again that JEBUS IS *Large censor* CLEAR!?!?!?"

*Albert gets it finally*
"YES!!!!!!!!"
4/(Late)29-30(early)/09
*Zee says it's too late, and that Jebus was hammered*
"SAY WHAAAAA?!? *Long chain of swears*!!@!@! YOU'VE

GOT

TO BE

KIDDING

ME!!!!"

---

I was wrong about GLaDOS (Sorry), but you have to understand, *I* was shot, *I* had shown a willingness to lynch you if Gorrad was scum and I died, and *you* helped lynch Jebus. Until I saw that the game was over, I had thought that GLaDOS was mafia, and that my theory was correct. :/
--
On a side note, this is the SECOND time where I was right with many of my original suspicions. I had originally, in my entry to the game, FoS'd Gorrad, Green, and Seraphim as the three scum. :/

[Mastin]

Because I started the game as town. Xtox screwed over my town win. Thanks, Xtox.

Heh, I WAS RIGHT about there being a mafia traitor--it just wasn't Acidsomethingoranother.

Mastin talks. A lot. Without saying much.

I take offense at that--I always talk a lot. It sometimes has nailed scum several times. :/

---
Also a side-note:
In the notes I typed up and showed before on why GLaDOS was likely scum, I mentioned the scum having a safe-claim worded something like 'All the major characters are fighting hollows'. Well, what do you know? I was kinda right on that as well, although they were not informed that there was one major character left. :/

---

For reference, where I got it right: (checking back, it was two different 2/3 of the scum, with Albert in there because I didn't understand Albert's playstyle)

This post right here had rather some content from me.

---

Also for reference, these were my thoughts during N2.

NOTES FOR FUTURE REFERENCE:
The suspected Masons are Urahara, and the two kids.
I strongly believe that Korlash is Urahara.
He dropped a tell about his favorite characters being Urahara and the kids, covering with the Golden group.
And he dropped a serious tell right here:

I would like to throw my hat into the ring of asking

Who’s the only Bleach character who wears a hat?
Further hints:

would be a great name for some

industrial cleaning solution?

Also would you mind pointing out what and where these suspicions are for

us deaf and dumb people like me that need constant reassurance?

Or do you still need time to find something that sounds remotely good enough to pass off? I would think seven pages isn't that hard to

manufacture a sutable answer

.

Bolded is an obvious reference to Urahara’s age. It also is a possible hint at masons.
Underlined is a sign of Urahara’s shop—stuff like that is common place there.

See I don't really like being attacked from the sidelines by a benched player is all.

Urahara, for the most part, takes the sidelines in a fight, on the bench, really.

Gorrad are you feeling it? You know, it? Yes? no? Ok...

Possible hint at Gorrad-Korlash partnership. However, Phil’s the one I am actually seeing linked to Korlash. It is possible it is both.

This COULD theoretically be a sign of Korlash referencing the turning of a player into a hollow, but I find that to be EXTREMELY doubtful, in that this was more of a mason-tell than anything else.

but you're on to me here. I do know something but it's definitly not what you are thinking. Unless you are thinking strange things...

Hints at his role.

... I like to think I'm everyone's boss... And you're fired...

This was what originally tipped me off—Urahara is the owner (boss) of his shop, and could fire any of his employees if he so chose. It took a while to hit me, but it did.

This is no more then me backing up what's happened in the past

Urahara has a rather long past.

I doubt Urahara is in it simply because he took a more sideline approach in this battle.

This is the ONLY thing which makes me doubt Korlash is Urahara, although it could be just a setup—crumbing taking a sideline in the battle, and mentioning being attacked from the sideline, could be a way of countering it, stating subtly that Urahara is in the game.

Then again neither was I... Hmmm... Well I mean I suppose i was in a way... sorta...

Urahara wasn’t really in the fight. But he was ‘sort of’ in it.




This was typed just before the topic was locked, but I was not quick enough to post it.

You have no idea whether Seraphim is town or not.

The same can be said for the opposite--you have no idea whether Seraphim is scum or not.

ADDED NOTE: Well, what do you know? Albert WAS right. :/

Even if he has the slightest chance of being scum, he should be killed to avoid a deadline no-lynch.

He also has a much higher chance of being town.
Also, this sounded like you think Seraph is town. Explain, please.

ADDED NOTE: He wasn’t…and I suck. I really, really, suck. :/

If he did in fact prevent a NK yesterday night, it will not happen again because the scum have the knowledge of his role.

This is true.

The reality of this is that there is no more time to be spared. If you have something to say, say it now or be silent. Your uncooperative, anti-town demeanor is noted.

Alright, short version short, for you.

-I think Seraph will flip Kon, like he said he was.

ADDED NOTE: Wrong-o. Due to the flavor being so accurate, I have come to one of two conclusions:
1: The scum have safe claims—which is bad for us, to say the least. It makes sense, as Korlash pointed out, and in addition to that, it’s kinda hard to believe the way he claimed his PM almost exactly matched mine.
2: Seraph got very lucky with the way he worded his role, as it was almost an exact match to what I have in my PM.

-I think Green is scum, amongst other reasons, due to what I see as attempts to push for whatever lynch he thinks might stick.
-I am not as sure as Albert, but I find his posts, for the most part, anti-town. I'd need to read up on his previous games to see about this, though.
-X's attitude here, in comparison to my meta on him, is a large difference, and I find it suspicious, to say the least.
-I think Glados is town.

Anything else?

You have no idea whether Seraphim is town or not...that is, if you're town, which I think the chances of that being much higher than those of Seraphim.

And you have no idea whether Seraphim is scum or not, unless you are scum.
The same logic works for the reverse, you know, except your attitude is guilty until proven innocent.

ADDED NOTE: So he was guilty—it doesn’t change the general fact that guilty until proven innocent is an extremely anti-town attitude.

Also, if the scum make a mistake and don't NK, that doesn't mean we're going to start giving them freebies. Get a hold of yourself Mastin.

I'm not comprehending.

So, are you saying it would be a mistake for the scum to kill?
I didn't understand that at all.

Crunched on time

Aren't we all...

Unvote: Albert B. Rampage, Vote: Seraphim

*sighs*

Watch as he flips Kon.
Seraph, if you're on, you can save me/others the embarrassment of waiting for the results and just tell us that you are(/n't) Kon.

ADDED NOTE: It would appear our mod was online as I was typing it, and locked the topic before anything of content could be said. Yup, I was wrong…really wrong. I knew the role sounded like a stretch, but the flavor made perfect sense, and moderators almost always add twists to characters, so I believed the claim. I’ll wait to see how the night turns out, and if anyone is killed during the night.

---

Well, I’ve got three days to type. Unless the scum cut the time short (which I hope is not the case—these things take AGES to type, you know. I’ve spent half a week on a single post, you know, and the average time is two hours per post, in typing time.), I should have plenty of time, without procrastinating.

If the town sees this before the endgame, that means I was not night killed; thank you, as this is my first themed game and I don’t want my time to be cut short. I have much to offer in the way of theories, some crazy, some insane, and some rather anti-town ones, which I won’t reveal for them being anti-town.

THEORIES:

As Seraph was reeking of scum, and the ONLY thing that stopped people from lynching him before, was his claim, it is likely his buddies condemned him to death. Hence, of the six listed here, (Green Crayons, PhilyEc, Gorrad, Albert B. Rampage, Jebus, GLaDOS), it is probable at least one is scum.
Further reasoning: Before the comment on the night, did ANYONE think Seraphim was suspicious/scum? I saw no such concerns.

I believe that nobody defending Seraphim was scum. Again, the only thing preventing me from lynching him was the fact that his wording seemed very similar to that of my own PM. Hence, to defend him would have been suicidal, leaving the next day, two out of three scum likely going to be dead.

There is a fair chance that, if two mafia weren’t on Seraphim, the other was either likely on ZEE at some point in time, or never voted for anyone at all (again, due to the fact that nobody thought ZEE was scum before his post). Unless ZEE is the mafia, as he wasn’t voting. ZEE and X, the two not voting at the deadline, both expressed concern over Seraphim, yet didn’t vote for him—why?
Phil called Seraphim practically confirmed town—yet still voted for him—why?
Not knowing the outcome of the night, any of my suspects could be killed, but this is being typed for those who would live.

Something which occurred to me that hadn’t occurred to me before:
What if we have a traitor? You know, if shot by the mafia, becomes a Mafioso? Flavor-wise, there is one character that fits ABSOLUTELY PERFECTLY into that mentality. Anyone with any Bleach knowledge should know who I speak of. It would explain the lack of the kill n1 as well.
So, be weary: we might, just might, have more mafia than anticipated. Sure, there’s *always* that possibility, but most of the town is under the impression of three mafia. I’m keeping an open mind on the matter, as I don’t want to be surprised.

I also saw a very strong possible mason breadcrumb (either that, or mafia code), but I shalln’t reveal something which would only harm the town (I have pegged down who these masons would be character-wise if existing, and perhaps somewhat of an idea of who they are). If I am correct, and there are masons, they’re free to claim when they want to, not because I told them to.

I’ve scribbled down more notes on roles, what characters could have what role. I am stopping myself from writing down who I find to probably BE these characters, as that is something I obviously have trouble deducing. *points to Seraphim*

---

I promised that I’d give my reasons for suspecting Green, Albert, and X, in that order. Let’s do X first, for it is the quickest.

-Seraphim’s random vote was on X’s predecessor, GhostWriter. Not much, but it’s ridiculous how many times I’ve seen mafia buss partners with a random vote on their partner.
-X replaced in, but said nothing for a whole page. Lurking?
Possible, though he says that he replaced into another game.
-X expresses a wish to lynch Albert (possible buss), yet lynches Zwet due to the deadline. Right here:

I would much rather lynch ABR, but whatever, nothing's gonna change.

Vote Zwet

Sorry man.

-X admits that the wagon on Zwet was an excuse for a scum lynch, despite being on the wagon himself.

I was right about Zwet. He wasn't scum, just because he turned out to be anti-town doesn't change anything.

Which, to me, is a reference to his earlier post, saying ‘nothing has changed about the circumstances of the lynch’, meaning his opinion still stood, which he expresses here

It's playstyle. Same as why i'm mislynched most the time. And you'll probably speedlynch him in a couple days...

And here:

No, but I don't find him scummy, and i'm not liking the manner in which he's being attacked.

And even further back, right here:

The Zwet wagon looks like a scum excuse to lynch a townie based on playstyle.

By stating on day two that nothing has changed, it means his opinion on the wagon is the same—that the scum were likely on it…yet he, himself, was on said wagon.

Vote Gorrad

Nope, no reasoning here. Just a vote...with no reasoning…which is scummy. Did anyone ever ask WHY he voted Gorrad? Checking those pages now, but I find it odd that nobody noticed…

A threat like that isn't going to work GC. And I am engaged and i'm not below the activity level either.

Nope, not seeing anyone question his vote. It would appear he got away with a no-reasoning vote. Admits to lurking, right there.

Which doesn’t fit my meta on X.

For reference, Newbie 742 is how I know him.

Unvote Vote Seraphim

He stalls and then doesn't claim. If he was town he wouldn't need time to think, he just had to claim.

X’s logic makes sense, and it turns out, he was right.

FoS: Xtoxm

Very easily a weak bus against X.
Or a subtle way of saying “Get the *censored* off me, partner!”

Unvote

Please expand.

Does the pro-town thing of wanting more details. A point in X’s favor.

I don't think your questions were even aimed at me, I think they were an attempt to put me in a bad light.

While most of this post is pro-town, this, again seemed like a scummy comment to make—reading to me as “I don’t like how you’re putting me in the spotlight”…and only scum should fear taking the heat of their actions. It could theoretically also read as “I don’t like your bussing, Green, against me.” But that’s a stretch by any standards.

Could you give more detail on your PM

Asks for more detail.

(On a side note, on a reread, I accidentally picked up another role hint from another person when rereading, but I would prefer to not state it at this point in time—it relates to my mason theory and if I am correct about this hint, it would also explain the gameplay of the player who dropped it concerning a certain matter. Another section of the game just reinforced this theory. [AND ANOTHER just a little later on. I’m picking up on a LOT of them, now.]
Up to the point where I would be surprised if the player who dropped these tells is NOT who I suspect they are. I won’t reveal such information yet, though, as it would only harm the town. There’s another person I see linked to this person in subtle ways. I will say no more)

Xtoxm, GC, what exactly are you talking about? Do you want the flavor for my role PM as well? Straight-forward questions and I will give you straight-forward answers.

Despite the other people talking, only addresses X and Green. This is a very possible buddy tell. “Hey, buddies, stop fighting! We need to get a townie lynched, NOW!”

A stretch, of course, but I find it odd that Seraph was addressing them alone.

Not much, but it is very worthy of note.
Sum-up:
-His play doesn’t match my town meta of him
-Seraphim and Green have been the two players I see addressing him the most later on, although early on it was Glados and Phil
-X wanted to lynch one person, yet deadline lynched another
-X admitted that nothing had changed, as in, he still thought that the scum were on Zwet’s wagon, yet he, himself, dropped the hammer on said wagon.

On to Albert.

-Immediately votes at least three different people for his random. This could be a way of dropping any number of tells, or could just be random, but needless to say, I have a disliking for this kind of attitude.

Can we carry a separated thread of conversation on Bleach?

My favorite character is Yachiru. So cute!

Shows inconsistency, wanting a separate thread for Bleach, yet still going on to comment on his favorite character, anyway.

Anyway I'm going to vote for the most suspicious person as the day progresses. In the past, I've tried to get the hardest lynch on who I personally thought was scum, but this had mixed results. So this game, openness and honesty!! Yay!

Says that he’ll be going for the most suspicious person—I read this as “I’m going to vote everyone’s top suspect, as in, follow the vibe of the town, instead of my normal strategy of going hard after the scum!”
1: Riding the vibe of the town means people aren’t part of it,
2: Going with the town instead of doing scum hunting is…well, incredibly scummy.

-Blindly follows Green with a vote on my predecessor, giving no further logic as to why at the time.

-Explains the logic later on for following, saying that Green was the better arguer. Says nothing about why, though, Green was better. It may be a stylistic thing, but I strongly frown upon people not giving their own reasoning ON TOP of the reasoning given by another player.

He explains why he voted my predecessor based off of Green’s logic, and shows why the logic is good, but, still, gives none of his own to it.

PhilyEc, your most recent squander, coupled your suspicious behavior outlined in the quote below, have shown us how little you understand the game. I will now ignore you entirely until you post something of value.

Flat-out declares how he will ignore Phil’s input, which is incredibly scummy.

Unvote, vote PhilyEC

OMGUS is what I saw, there…

Anyone who notes how I suspected PhilyEc before he voted for me gets brownie points.

Yet, when looking back, I saw only his suspicions on my predecessor—none of these rumored suspicions on Phil.

I have earned my title.

Basically just flat-out says that he’s being Illogical, which is a rather anti-town activity, I might add.

-Makes a statement about luck I don’t understand,
-Then unvotes, says he’ll get back into the game, and won’t take questions—a seemingly paradoxical statement, as questions are part of the game.
A rather scummy comment, in my eyes.

No.

Says he was lying before about his previous suspicions on Phil—if I were more strict to the rules, that’d be enough to invoke Lynch all Liars alone. I can understand lying during the RVS stage to get discussion going (I’ve seen IC’s do it before, newbies do it, etc.), but once out of it, I take great caution at ANYONE lying, ESPECIALLY when there has been Lynch all Liars discussion within pages.

so are we lynching zwet or what

Shows a desire to get as quick a lynch as possible on Zwet.

If it looks like scum, smells like scum and plays like scum, its probably scum.

In his defense, this is a very valid point.

That's pro-town right there ^

An apparent reversal of opinions at least temporarily on my predecessor.

I'm with you Gorrad, because I have the same instinct, but I doubt it will go anywhere without at half a majority at least, so I'll keep my vote on zwet.

Yet ANOTHER player who wants to lynch someone else, yet is on Zwet’s lynch to make sure the lynch goes through.
How could anyone not find that scummy?

Say you suspect two people equally. Who are you going to vote for, the one who has 3 people on the bandwagon, or the one with only 1 person?

Explains himself, but I still found that he wasn’t saying he was suspicious of Zwet as much as Phil…and I really believe in voting who you are most suspicious of.

I am then forced to physically write out my suspicions of PhilyEc:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 46#1554346

This also predates his vote.

Therefore, I have never OMGUS'd him.

Said suspicions are read by most as Albert just flat-out ignoring Phil for being a bad player, not actual suspicions, so I find his argument invalid on the point, there.

So, who do I think is scum currently? The most suspicious are:

Zwet

and

ABR

FoS’ing possible partner, along with going after an assumed pro-town player. This was also X’s view of the game, so there’s a point I had forgotten to add against X.
Again, I see the strong possibility of a buss.

Cheering the doctor upon daybreak is a dead scum giveaway.

Bandwagons ZEE, who I see as likely just a pro-town player.

I forgot.

Says he forgets. Whether this is legit, or him ‘forgetting’ a non-existent case, time will tell.

Look, I don't really give a damn about these stupid questions. We're trying to scumhunt here.

Ignores the fact that part of scum hunting IS asking questions—one of THE most major parts, actually.

I swear, in this game, all the scum are the annoying players.

Now, this could be a flat-out admitting to being scum (“My partners are driving me crazy!”), or it could be him just being blunt, stating that the people he thinks are scum are the annoying players in the game.
Either way, I don’t like it…

Seraphim’s next post attacks ZEE, but also goes after Albert. Again, it’s the FoS/Vote tactic, only this time in reverse. It reinforces my opinion that Albert is scum with Seraphim.

Thanks for catching that Gorrad. Maybe Zeenon is the doc so I rather vote for Seraph.

1: Rolefishing ZEE,
2: Unvotes and goes onto a new bandwagon forming.
Both of which are scummy.
Albert’s discussion with Seraphim seems to be a setup for Albert to push for a heavy buss on a now-scummy (due to Gorrad’s catch) partner, in my eyes, although it could be legit scum hunting.

Finish off Seraphim.

First comment in a while, and—like with Zwet, urges people to hammer Seraphim.

Gorrad is very pro-town, unvote him please.

Posts something I now agree with.

You should read before you post.

“Green, stop making scum tells and post when you’re awake!” I know, a stretch, but one I find at least a possibility.

So you think that I'm mafia and I'm bussing Seraphim?

I am not certain, but this probably would have not been my thought process at the time—I am definitely thinking it is the case right now, though.

Next post is him saying he doesn’t believe the claim.
He was right; I was wrong.
That doesn’t mean that a buss wasn’t in order, which I believe is rather the possibility.

The next post, a page later, is similar in nature.

States again that he thinks Seraph is scum, giving no further reasoning, yet again…

Unvote

Okay then, I could go for a speedlynch of someone else. But not Korlash, and not Gorrad.

WANTS to see a Speed lynch. Tell me, how can that not be scummy?

Vote: Zeenon

If you thought Seraph was scum, Albert, why vote Zee?
THEORY: To prevent the bandwagon on his buddy from actually going through, when an alternative was available.

Mastin's complete bullshit argument about comparable flavor and sentence structure should be ignored through and through.

Attempts to discredit me with no given evidence to support it.

Seraphim: 3 (Green Crayons, PhilyEc, Gorrad)
ZEEnon: 3 (Korlash, Seraphim, Albert B. Rampage)

Anyone not voting for these two should be a favorite lynch contender tomorrow.

Makes an absurd declaration, easily an attempt to set up tomorrow’s lynch.

Its better to risk lynching a power role with the reward of catching a scum, than to no-lynch with the consequence of never finding a scum.

"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take." -Wayne Gretzky

While I don’t fully agree with this point, it is, in most situations, correct.

I fear it is too late to even decide between two.

Pile all your votes on Seraphim as soon as you read this.

Unvote, vote Seraphim

Goes back to Seraphim…

The rest of the points for the day raise all entirely valid reasoning.

But, overall, I am getting a fairly scummy vibe from Albert.


Summary:
-Shows inconsistencies very early on
-Wanted to ride the vibe of the town, until he got called out for it
-Has been known to completely ignore players
-Has shown very little of his own reasoning in his arguments, giving few to any reasons behind the votes
-Admitted to lying
-Has shown a desire to quick lynch TWICE
-Bandwagoned
-Singled out by Seraph as probable scum
-Rolefished
-Is very easily paired with both my other top suspects
-Has shown several signs that can very easily scream bussing partner.

I don’t know Albert’s past playing style, so I can’t say it’s a sign he’s scum for certain, but I can say it IS anti-town, and reeks of scum to me.

Dang, I kinda suck at this. I get it kinda sorta right to begin with, nailing over half the scum (Seraph, Gorrad, Seraph, Green), yet later developments push me away. (Only one major character)

I had fun in this game, to say the least. To many more games, where I will enjoy watching myself get nightkilled for no apparent reason. >_>

[Mastin]

By the way, this marks the second time that I've been night-killed after having one full day of posting, as well as replacing in the day before early on. Put together, it's my third time being night-killed early on.

People call my posts lots of 'contentless garbage', for the most part, yet at the same time, 'incredibly pro-town' feelings directed at me. Out of curiosity, really, what makes me look pro-town for having what appears to be so little to contribute? And why the constant night-kills on me when many voiced suspicions of me?
Policy Night-kill? <_<

[Mastin]

Hmph. I don't mumble. I don't shout. That's not radio noise (mumbled nonsense), nor vocal noise (loud speaking) in my posts. I prefer a fine mid-ground, of clear yet loud enough to understand, so I disagree.

SIMPLE SOLUTION:
If people would read everything I write, they'd realize why I'm night-killed, for I am probably at least partially right in my suspicions. :/

[Mastin]

By the way,

(3) speculating that I have a killing role because I used a quote from Portal about killing test subjects;

Did I mention I was right about that?

You fail to notice the key factors in his claim. For one he DID NOT MATCH YOU... He said he had no mention of any secondary abilities.

Nah, he said

"I'm Mizuiro Kojima. There's nothing in my role PM that suggests I am anything but vanilla townie."

My role claim, basically, would've been

"I'm Kiego. Nothing in my role PM says that I'm anything but vanilla townie, although there's a hint as to what I might be."

The only thing different was the latent abilities, which was the only difference.

I was a townie. I just had latent abilities.
Jebus was a townie. He didn't have such luck.

Secondly YOU had been Nightkilled.

As Albert said, Jebus would've never night-killed me. And later on, if this were the case, why didn't Jebus bring it up? In your Jebuscum-scenario, after he failed to bring it up, why would he have killed his one supporter?

---

Jebus's accidental lynch was the only thing which I consider to have been an error in the game. The Korlash imaginary (As Jebus had been lynched, hence, it never happened) bandwagon would've been something which I would have accepted as an alternative that would've left us with the same outcome (although in actuality, had I been left alive, I would've pushed hard for GLaDOS's lynch--a different outcome, as there'd be nothing to vig Green n4 and we'd lynch him d5).

[Mastin]

That is a big difference.

Not to me.

In my hypothetical of Jebus scum killing you to frame your role to his fakeclaim makes perfect sense him killing you.

This ONLY works up if he ACTUALLY brought it up. He didn't. So, if the one scenario that makes him scum doesn't make sense...what makes him scum?
Seeing my train of thought on the matter, now?

And he failed to bring what up?

Your hypothetical Jebuscum scenario has him killing me, and then bringing up the fact that he is clear, via me having a nearly identical roleclaim. He failed to bring this argument up at all, and that's the only motivation he would've had to kill me.

seeing as how my lynch gave the same outcome in every sense, would you have considered it an error as well?

No, actually. I would've considered it the correct course of action, if I knew that GLaDOS was very probable town. Due to her being the only major character in the game, I didn't, and due to me being killed, I thought it was her, so if she were to have been lynched, Then we would've had a day five--but said day five would've led to a Green Lynch, anyway--Albert and Zee were confirmed, Jebus was confirmed to me, I knew I was innocent, X was confirmed through Albert...

No matter who we would've lynched amongst the three of Korlash, GLaDOS, and Jebus, we would've won. Had I been alive, it would've likely been through a lynch day five, had it been you, Korlash, an identical outcome to what the Jebus lynch did would've happened.

It's all really a pointless argument, over such a small point.

[Mastin]

Not really. What's the time span between when he claimed and when I first brought up the chance of it being faked specifically off yours?

He claimed day three, BEFORE I had, Korlash. I'm one of the people who ASKED him to claim. :/

You claimed and died before he even claimed.

No, he claimed, and then I told the town that he was confirmed and then I, myself, claimed to explain why. Obviously, your memory on such events is rather poor. That's why I was SCREAMING at my monitor to have you people read my posts--not read my thoughts, POSTS. I had stated in-thread after Jebus claimed that he was clear. Not just randomly claimed and got night-killed due to it.

The fact his claim held similar traits to yours in no way cleared him.

The fact that he did it BEFORE *I* had claimed AT ALL *does*, though. If you had bothered to reread like Albert had done, you would've realized that Jebus claimed first, and then I claimed shortly afterwards due to him going from scummy to instantly clear, in my mind.

I still find it hard you call lynching Jebus which won us the game 2 days earlier then what you are arguing is ok above a failure.

Not two, one.

Day four, any lynch other than Green.
Green kills, GLaDOS doesn't vig Green for whatever reason (like, say, GLaDOS was lynched).

Day five (One day later), we likely lynch Green, the last unconfirmed in the game. (X enabling Albert, Albert confirming ZEE and himself as masons, Me confirming Jebus, Jebus--if paying attention--confirming me)

It was a failure because, as GLaDOS stated, there were two possible targets for her during the night: Green, and you. Had you been lynched, it would've left only Green. A success, 100% of the time.

Had GLaDOS been lynched, admittedly, it would've left you and Green, but I think everyone made it rather clear how they were willing to lynch you first.

Anyway, if I were to have lived through the night, my suspicions of GLaDOS would've been lessened, so I might not have lynched GLaDOS, anyway.

1 the fact you hold yourself so high above the others that you being alive would have been the key difference in changing the outcome of the day.

<--Has a large Ego. Surely, you should've realized this by now.
Yes, I think that if I were alive, the outcome of the day would've been different.

And 2 that GC would have ever been lynched.

I had stated my suspicions of Green since I entered the game.
Albert had stated suspicions of Green.
You had suspicions of Green.
ZEE had suspicions of Green.

Did anyone NOT suspect Green?
Yea, he would've been lynched if he wasn't shot by GLaDOS.

you leaving ABR GC and Xtoxm... and... who do you think get's lynche out of those three?

ABR was confirmed by ZEE, and vice versa. Similarly, X confirmed Albert who confirmed X. In my view, that would leave only Green. X enabling me (in the scenario where GLaDOS is lynched, leaving me as the only person who can possibly have a latent power) would confirm me as well. You get the idea.

Yeah well I find it a bit wrong for a dead guy to come in yelling abotu how the rest of us were failures and if you had been alive the game would have been so drastically different.

I was ticked off that Jebus, the person who I viewed as the most clear by the end of day three, was lynched due to a miscalculation in the vote count.

Especially when I think you're wrong on so many things...

Like the old saying goes,
I suppose we can agree to disagree...

Really I'm just bored and love to argue with people.

Aye. As do I.