Mini 760 - Bleach Mafia: Karakura Town - Game Over!

[Green Crayons]

I'm not erg0. (Unless if he made super smart posts and was a great mafia player. In which case... sure, I'm erg0.)

Vote: DOS

.

[Green Crayons]

Oh. So DOS will be stating all her suspicions out loud.

unvote, vote: Giuseppe

. On a long enough line time, everyone second guesses even their most deep-seeded convictions. Quick lynching two separate scum is not exactly something I would be trying to hurl as an accusation against a player in a separate game. Not sure why you're bringing it up as if it's a negative quality - all it shows me is that NotMe has either a great gut or is able to deduce scum pretty well. ...Something over which I would

really

want to lynch him.

[Green Crayons]

First, there is no such thing as a "good random vote." Random votes suck and should be done away with to as great extent as possible.

Second, do you plan on actually launching future discussion about item X or do you plan on just talking about launching future discussion about item X?

[Green Crayons]

Assuming item X is my move to reveal meta of LHNM, than I'd be taking discussion forward based on discussion of how I did it.

And, once again, I'm curious if you will actually be "taking discussion forward" on that point or if you will just talk about how you will be taking discussion forward.

And, well, yeah, random votes do stink, I suppose. but they're the best we've got.

Are they? Your own "random" vote wasn't too random. My vote definitely isn't random, though the suspicions it's build upon are flimsy - but that's to be expected at this point. Not sure why you're defending the "necessity" of random votes when there is already other material on hand to help guide us.

FoS: Korlash

. If I didn't like where my vote currently was, I would vote any self-voter. A finger will have to suffice.

[Green Crayons]

Wasser: He did, but that has no bearing on the fact that he was partially excusing his vote as "random" (and yet somehow having a reason behind the randomness but it still remains random?), but that sort of clashes with the fact that pure randomness is not all we have for our use in determining who to vote (even at this stage) as demonstrated precisely by his vote. It's just a weird situation: "I'm randomly voting Player Y because of these reasons, but this vote is still random and you can't blame me because all we can do is randomly vote at this time!" ...Uh, what?

Phily: Care to name names of people you're specifically looking at? Also, what would you like for them to focus on once becoming active?

Albert: Why does your most suspicious person remain Gorrad?

[Green Crayons]

So what you are saying is you have no reason.

Hey, that's a great way of putting words in someone else's mouth. Why exactly are you misrepresenting what another player said?

If someone hasn't posted yet I doubt you saying anything will make them. But sure, why not...

You don't think putting a spotlight on lurkers usually de-lurkerfies said problem players?

[Green Crayons]

Korlash: She said that she didn't want to reveal her reasoning at that time. You said that this shows that she has no reasoning. You're seriously maintaining that your charge (she has no reasoning) is not misrepresenting the facts (she declares that there are reasons, of which she does not want to reveal at this time)? Really?

Phily: Care to point out what specifically we should be paying attention to regarding my behavior towards Giuseppe?

[Green Crayons]

Having laptop issues. Meant to post this earlier right after Phily's post 56:


I agree with Korlash, to some extent.

If you have legitimate and worthy suspicions, I think fear of "lead[ing] the town" is just about the worse excuse to neglect to reveal those suspicions. While I agree there are situations where reasons behind a vote or a FoS are sometimes best left unsaid until later (though few and far between), being afraid the town may agree with your suspicions (with the implication that they would be following suspicions with legitimacy) is incredibly counterintuitive.

[Green Crayons]

Let me address a few of these issues.

Second, do you plan on actually launching future discussion about item X or do you plan on just talking about launching future discussion about item X?

I do not like this. I cannot explain why in a manner I find satisfactory.

1) Green Crayon challenge Guiseppe, asks if theres any plan to bring up said meta info later on.

3) Green Crayon behaves unsatisfied , asks same question with clarity.

5) Green Crayon, goes at Giu's random vote moreover, questions the true randomness behind the vote (Note: Meta info was his unease)

Both Giuseppe and Phily misunderstood my issue, and Giuseppe's response shifted what I was originally looking at but my original issue remained. Let me clarify here:

Initially, Giuseppe said that he was going to "...Launch future discussion from how people criticize/critique my move." That was his "Action X:" his future discussion about how people reacted to his actions. He later shifted through a misunderstanding (?) of what specifically I was referencing into "taking discussion forward based on discussion of how I did it."

Originally, I was referencing his decision to base his future discussion on how people reacted to his actions. In his response to me post-clarification, he said that his future discussion was going to be able what he did (not people's reactions). At no point was I ever really thinking about Giuseppe's future discussion centering around LHNM's meta (not sure where Phily is pulling that from). This source of confusion, however, is a non-issue to me - I just want to clear up the situation in the here and now.

My point remains the same, regardless of what his "future discussion" is supposed to be about: I have seen plenty of times mafia say that they will talk about whatever but never actually talk about the subject - though they are quite verbose about promises of discussion, which masks their actual lack of contribution. It's basically a way of appearing to be active but maintaining no actual constructive behavior in the thread. Because my point is universal, it did not require me at the time to specify what specifically I was expecting him to talk about in the future - just, merely if he continued to ramble on about talking about something without actually discussing it I was going to slam him hard for it.

<snip>randomness is not all we have for our use in determining who to vote</snip>

At the time Giuseppe made his vote, randomness

was

all we had. The fact that there were less random things by the time Green Crayons made Post 39 does not change the situation of Post 14.

You missed the point. Giuseppe was using "randomness" to excuse his vote, but he explicitly stated that the cause behind his vote

was not random

. Just because he classifies the vote as "random," if he has cause behind it then it's not random. He was semi-hiding behind the veil of the RVS and I was calling him out on it.

"I'm randomly voting Player Y because of these reasons, but this vote is still random and you can't blame me because all we can do is randomly vote at this time!" ...Uh, what?

I disapprove of this characterization. It tries to lead readers into thinking there is a greater discongruity in Giuseppe's posts than there actually was. Giuseppe's vote was random in that it was not based off suspicion in the game.

Votes tied in a neat little bow with suspicion that's based off of

anything

automatically makes it not random. Regardless, people can look at my characterization and deem it appropriate or not themselves - and I'll note Giuseppe hasn't said a single word about it.

I also noticed that Green Crayons did not follow up on his question in Post 39 to PhilyEc.

Asks me questions, answers would be good scum food, doesnt notice that I dont answer (Empty questions to look town?)

Phily's furthered and continued retreat from his original lurker prodding led me to believe he didn't really have anyone in mind. His lack of an answer had me chalk up in my little notebook an attempt to look pro-town by calling out lurkers, but it backfired by pulling on that line a bit too early.

FoS's Korlash for his joke vote on himself (Add Scum Points for reaching)

You can check my game history. Anytime anyone puts a vote beside their name, I vote them. Several times it has been a scum, but now I do it out of habit. Self-voting is 1. dumb 2. counter-productive if you're town and 3. a great way to "be active" without having to worry about where your first vote will go if scum. The RVS is highly overrated and self-voting only prolongs it at best, distorts future rereads at worst.


Also, does anyone else find wasser's post 73 exceptionally odd? As in, he thinks he has found scum on page three and then, instead of explaining his conviction, he wants someone else to respond to something I can't readily identify first?

[Green Crayons]

Calling it random was a way to plug it into the RVS, and start discussion. It would have been more suspicious not to call it random.

...So you lied to be less suspicious? I mean, I understand everything else you're saying, for the most part. But, really? I can't see any other way to read this ^.

I mean, I understand that you're saying that the RVS stage isn't purely random and so when you said "random" you meant in the semi-random aspect that encompasses the RVS... but. It just feels wrong. You had to excuse your vote after the fact by labeling it as random. And so that you wouldn't look suspicious.

Though, I hate that line of thought. Anyone who wants to get down to brass tax on D1, Page 1 I'm right there with them. In fact, I was happy you were talking about meta on Page 1 - it was a welcomed sight rather than "Tee hee I <3 Player X so I'm voting them gigglebarf" or whatever crap that has a tendency to occur in the early parts of the game. I originally voted you just because I thought it was a poor meta to hate on, but when you went back to somehow excuse your semi-legitimate means by explaining it was "random," it just struck me in an odd way. And now, to know that you did it specifically to look less suspicious... I mean. Wow. People lying about their motives to look more innocent are usually scum.

[Green Crayons]

Hey, look. I'm not erg0. Stop calling me that.

You kinda sorta took it out of context. My entire point is that everyone calls it random.

No, I did not. I spent the whole entire rest of my post talking about the context.

What do you think about Green Crayons?

Scum, but I want Phily to answer first.

I think Phily could be scum. That's why I was holding off on GC until Phily gave me something to work with. How is this hard to understand?

...What? You said that you thought I was scum (not Phily) but you wanted Phily to "answer," which apparently was you wanting him to "give you something," but he already had his post 67 on full display - a good six posts prior to your request to have him answer. It's confusing because it makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Please clarify.

1. Self voting well into a game is dumb, random voting yourself is dumb but so are all random votes, you seem to agree with this outlook on random voting stages.
2. Counter productive well into a game, not at the beginning, all random votes lead to little productive result, those results than do get produced usually come from over-eager players who generally tend to reach.
3. I dont think anyone worries past if they are wagoning someone theyve picked randomly from mod's list. You single him out for voting different to everyone yet I think the vote itself was a mock/joke vote for obvious reason.

1. Yup.
2. No. It's counter productive at any point of the game. The RVS is shit. It's a manufactured concept that doesn't deserve any more time and attention than a half-thought. Self voting does not help in any way whatsoever from helping the town move away from the RVS. It's counter productive.
3. Have you ever been scum? I have. Plenty of times. From before my very first post I'm thinking about how my play will be interpreted if I or any of my mates die. Self voting absolves the scum of worrying that their very first vote might be interpreted in an incriminating fashion.

Conclusion: Self voting is stupid, counter productive or scummish. Any of those reasons is cause for a vote in the early stages of a game if I don't already have a better lead to follow. In lieu of a vote, a FoS will often suffice.

I'm highly suspicious of you now. You're posting a tiny amount and leeching off of GC's accusations.

Reminds me of a few other players. Seraph, wasser. For example. Let's not focus our spotlight too sharply.

Lying over a random vote is the reason you think hes scum?

BS. Post 80 is speculation unless you can prove Giuseppe has lied.

You don't see the whole accusation, so let expound (though I feel as if I have said this before): Giuseppe lied over the genesis behind a "random" vote after the fact that he's given separate, semi-legitimate reasons all

so he doesn't look suspicious

. Saying you're voting for Player X because of meta, then come back after that to say that your vote is actually random (when the very definition of random decidedly makes such a vote not random) just to make yourself look less suspicious is a pretty big deal. I mean, I didn't think my initial suspicion had much merit, but I wanted to see how Giuseppe would react under pressure. Letting slip that he didn't want to look suspicious and so fudged the genesis of his vote is pretty much cracking under some pretty light pressure and begs closer scrutiny.

Anyone who notes how I suspected PhilyEc before he voted for me gets brownie points.

I don't like brownies. Maybe you can reiterate your pre-being-voted-for suspicions for those of us lacking a sweet tooth.

FOS: Seraphim

, for this.

FOS: wasser

, for this.
Tagging along popular bandwagons while staying off the radar by not contributing in any meaningful way. Would love to see something from any of them that's helpful.

[Green Crayons]

[quote=Me]Tagging along popular bandwagons while staying off the radar by not contributing in any meaningful way. Would love to see something from any of them that's helpful. [/quote]Clarification: "...popular bandwagons of suspicion..."

[Green Crayons]

Why is the best thing I/anyone else can do is hope that I express some interest in the "latest developments?" And what specific "latest developments" are you wanting me to comment upon which I have not already?

[Green Crayons]

Green Crayons seems bent on misrepping my earlier post.

What

I

was doing was explaining how I saw the situation. I asked for you to clarify. Instead of clarifying, you decided that I'm trying to slander you, claimed as such with no actual facts to support such a notion, and then you apparently consider the case closed because you don't attempt to clear up the confusion... all of which leaves me none the wiser as to your convoluted/nonsensical/suspicious posts.

And where did I repeat "THE EXACT SAME THING" as Giuseppe?

[Green Crayons]

Alright, I didn't catch that portion of Giuseppe's post. But, looking at it I'm still not satisfied with your explanation, because, actually, only my FOS seems to be quite similar to what Giuseppe said, but my main issue in 115 is different than what Giuseppe was talking about. So, no. I am not merely repeating Giuseppe's issues. Please hang the parroting accusation on someone else's door, thanks.

Once again: There are a few discrepancies between your original post and your "clarification" that bug me, and I want you to explain it.

Explain:
DOS asked you what you thought of me - not Phily, not anyone else.
Your response was "scum."
Now, you want to say that you were saying you thought Phily was scum, not me. Even though you were answering DOS' question

about me

.

Explain:
You added to your answer that you wanted Phily to "answer first."
It is unclear at the time what you are wanting him to answer.
Your clarification post says that you were wanting him to "give [you] something to work with."
He had already "given [you] something to work with" in his 67, which was six posts prior to this one where you were wanting him to give you something. It had already been given.

Albert's childish outburst to be exact. Its very emotional and has little content. Not only that he performed an OMGUS, his second weakly backed vote.

So you want me to say something more about something I've already commented upon while I'm awaiting a reply because that's the only thing people can rely upon to see activity in this game? ... Wow.

[Green Crayons]

Well how can you explain Albert's reaction? Its 'Wow' itself and I think it deserves more attention.

I can't explain someone else's reaction for them. That's why I'm wanting him to explain it for himself. And now he's gone into "Whoops, my mistake! No questions for the moment!" mode which is dumb because nobody is exempt from questioning. So, I'm still awaiting an explanation (see below), but his actions have been duly noted.

I find no way to read these three statements without there being a contradiction. If he had already gotten what he wanted from PhilyEc, he had no reason to hold off voting for Green Crayons. This looks like a classic case of muddying the water.

Careful, you'll be called out on your "willful misinterpretation" of this confusing clusterfuck of logic. Because you're obviously trying to slander the poor fellow.

I 100% disagree with Green Crayons' analysis in Post 80.

Obviously. And I 100% agree with it. This point of discussion is becoming old hat and continually coming back to it is retarding the natural growth of conversation. If there is anything that won't be a simple rehash of your 82 where I will have to respond with a rehash of my 80, please get it out now. Otherwise, I think we can let this point be for the time being.

I have earned my title.

So you're saying that there were no suspicions you had about Phily prior to his vote on you?

[Green Crayons]

I would like wasser to take a few minutes to explain his posts as if we were five years old. Since apparently he thinks his posts make an obvious amount of sense but there are several of us who do not, either he's a scumbag trying to minimize suspicion before the ball gets rolling or he's town bad at explaining himself. His responses so far - which are more one-liners than true explanations - are only making me grow more suspicious all while I still fail to see how his posts were making any sort of sense.

Also, Albert: ...What? So, what suspicion did you have re: Phily prior to his vote on you (I skimmed your posts but didn't really see anything). Why did you say your title fits?

[Green Crayons]

Right now the discussion is focusing too much on theory and too little on scumhunting.

~ Nap time ~

What she said. I have been skimming the thread from time to time and find it immensely

boring

not relevant to actually finding scum. I sort of dropped off when I decided to refrain from putting too much effort into keeping up with why LALAL is a better than LAL and blahblahblah. I mean, I've seen several instances where I could make a big ole point about how someone was wrong/misguided (e.g. Kor's assumption that Giuseppe didn't lie to look less suspicious when Giuseppe specifically said he labeled the vote as random - even though it wasn't random - simply to avoid suspicion)... but. Eh. I don't think it would be constructive.

I'll need to read these past few pages properly, but meh. I'm sure reading through it carefully will lead me to believe my current interpretation: it's mafia theory masturbatory conversation. Probably best found in Mafia Discussion, not in a game that hasn't even broken into double digits for its pages.


I do like how me not stirring the pot for two (weekend) days is "falling under the radar" and cause for a vote. That's sarcasm, by the way - it's a pretty weak reason. I'll post something a bit more substantive later.

[Green Crayons]

Hey

Seraph

! Answer the question posed here, here and here in response to this post of yours. Thanks!

Albert

, please answer the questions that were posed to you here, here and here regarding your pre-being-voted suspicions of Phily. Thanks.

words

So... actually conversing with another player somehow "interferes" with your observations of another player, and you continue to fail to explain your previous contraction found in post 73 that has been questioned by several players? Awesome.

Green, do you find it a suitable response to simply parrot someone else's logic?

I find this to be an incredibly loaded question because the appropriate answer seems to be - and my gut response is - no, it isn't suitable. After all, people should think for themselves. But when you look at the fact that in any given game there are up to 9 townspeople who are looking to find three or so scummy players, there is going to be some "parroting" of logic. Not all nine (or even five, or three) can bring their own, mutually exclusive and unique suspicions to the table. So, I would have to say that it would depend wholly on the situation, as simply agreeing with and restating another player's logic/suspicions is not nor should be considered a tell or bad play in and of itself.

If it looks like scum, smells like scum and plays like scum, its probably scum.

Xtox is actually a walking, talking example of how this statement is wrong.

Unvote, Vote: Seraphim

. Wasser, please take note because what Seraphim is doing is falling under the radar. For the record, this vote is simply an upgrade of my FOS.

[Green Crayons]

I said I follow your logic here:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 83#1554183

That's you agreeing with me about Giuseppe, not Phily.

I am then forced to physically write out my suspicions of PhilyEc:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 46#1554346

Per this link, what was Phily's "most recent squander?"

Green, post 73 wasn't a contradiction, and I've explained why about three times.

It was and each of those "explanations" was really just garbly gook that didn't clarify or answer anything.

That said,

mod

, can you please prod Seraphim?

[Green Crayons]

Green Crayons, is your main reason for voting Seraphim that he has yet to answer my question? I just want to be clear. If there are other reasons, I would appreciate seeing them.

That and "Tagging along popular bandwagons while staying off the radar by not contributing in any meaningful way. Would love to see something from any of them that's helpful." - My cause for the FOS. In fact:

As for GC...I looked back at the posts and I looked at my post and can't remember why I made that post and what the hell I was talking about. I still have no idea what I was talking about. Sorry to deprive you of information but I must have been really tired or in a hurry at the time of that post.

...leads me to believe that my suspicions voiced for my FOS were justified. He saw momentum and joined the chorus of people going "Blargh GC looks suspicious/is active" just to look active/helpful.

Green, I was suspicious of Phily more than you. I saw you as scummy, but I wanted Phily to respond first. How is this a contradiction?

That, in and of itself, makes perfect sense. But when you look at the fact that

Phily had already responded six posts before your own

, this explanation doesn't hold up. If what you're saying was true, what else were you waiting for from Phily?

It's playstyle. Same as why i'm mislynched most the time. And you'll probably speedlynch him in a couple days...

So, who is turning up suspicious on your radar so that our attention isn't so distracted by wasser's poor playstyle?

[Green Crayons]

I said I follow your logic here:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 83#1554183

That's you agreeing with me about Giuseppe, not Phily.

I am then forced to physically write out my suspicions of PhilyEc:

http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.ph ... 46#1554346

Per this link, what was Phily's "most recent squander?"

Albert, please respond so my original question is answered in full.

It's playstyle. Same as why i'm mislynched most the time. And you'll probably speedlynch him in a couple days...

So, who is turning up suspicious on your radar so that our attention isn't so distracted by wasser's poor playstyle?

A few posts later you responded to my question in a round about fashion, stating that you would rather lynch ABR than wasser. Why did you want to lynch ABR? Do you still want to do so? Additionally, if you thought wasser's play wasn't suspicious, and that it was simply his normal play, why did you hammer him?

So

Vote: Zeenon

for the doctor thing... yeah...

I agree with the doctor thing being a major scum tell. I thought it was so well established of a tell that nobody actually did it any more, to be honest. Just curious, though: Any other reasons for the vote?


I would like DOS to be a bit more forthcoming with her reasons and general suspicions. She has been playing this game close to the chest, though she seems highly logical/reasonable and the town would probably benefit from her input. This leads me to believe that she's an alt and doesn't want to put her usual playstyle on full display (which would mean her posting ticks are a way to cover up any usual gameplay style), or that she's a scum and doesn't want to come across as too knowledgable as to who is and isn't scum (which would mean her posting style is something of a diversionary tactic). Or maybe she's an alt who is scum. Or neither. Any way you slice it, though, I would like to see more than one liners from her.

[Green Crayons]

So, your Phily vote wasn't an OMGUS vote because you already had suspicions against him: after all, you said you agreed with a suspicious blip I noticed and something else that you can't remember or be half bothered to go back and double check. That's it? Really?

Talk about weak. At this point, it would have been less suspicious to have owned up to the OMGUS instead of claiming to have had legitimate suspicions prior to his vote on you followed by dragging your feet to explain what these suspicions were, only to find that you pointed to a post that wasn't even talking about Phily and another where you don't even know to what you are referring.

Anyways:

Anyone who notes how I suspected PhilyEc

before

he voted for me gets brownie points.

Noted.

Looks like, to me, that Giuseppe is saying he sees and recogizes Albert's pre-Phily vote suspicions towards Phily. So, Giuseppe. What exactly were you noting?

[Green Crayons]

Please expand on this because it's making me HIGHLY suspicious of you. ... wordswordswords

Rules for Finding Mafia
1. Congratulate the doctor on successful protection: Is scum or doctor (+20, +10)

You definately pulled the classic "Look, I'm mafia trying to look like a town!" or the less classic "Look, I'm doc trying to not be subtle about me being the doc!" Either way, players don't congratulate the doctor anymore. It puts a big fat target on their head (by the town if they're scum; by scum if they're the doctor). So, congrats, you just exposed yourself for one or the other.

ZEE: "I think Green Crayons has come down with a bad case of tunneling.

Yes because I haven't criticized anyone else in this game, and most certainly not Albert. Not to mention, I am looking to incite DOS' insight because I actually want to hear it. Because I think it would be useful. Think of it as constructive criticism rather than suspicious criticism.

I swear, in this game, all the scum are the annoying players.

Who are the annoying scum?

Green Crayons, did you suspect I was an alt before the game went into night, or was that some revelation you just had today?

I toyed with the idea when you first posted.

What in particular would you like me to elaborate on, if anything?

Your Albert vote. Your me FOS. If we could be scum together. Your thoughts on ZEE's Gorrad suspicions. Your thoughts on my Seraphim's suspicions. Who you think would round out a three person mafia (assuming Albert and myself are you first two suspects).

What exactly was the purpose of your post ... At a glance you appear to be trying to ask me to explain things more often, but I am catching the ulterior motive of trying to probe into how experienced a player I am without asking me up front.

At a glance you got it right. I was just basically typing what I was thinking, and ended up with the notion that regardless of your alt or alignment status, I want you to speak up more (in frequency and quantity per post) so that it helps me with hearing good town points or determining you're scum.

Also, since you didn't deny you are an Alt, I have already made assumptions as to who you actually are - which includes experience. Regardless if I'm right about my assumptions, I have already pinned "experience" to your character (seriously, who else makes Alt accounts except people who have played enough games that they don't want to be instantly recognized?). Attempting to discern how much experience beyond that would be pointless, regardless of what alignment I am.

As scum, who do you generally choose to nightkill? Do you like to kill players like me?

Talk about an incredibly loaded question, and one that I would be happy to answer if this was a thread in Mafia Discussion. Let's just say I would put enough thought into it so that I wouldn't attempt to kill potential doc targets.

[Green Crayons]

Why in particular are you interested in a three person mafia group?

Because that's the usual ratio in a 12 person game. Why are you pretending that a 3 scum group is an absurd assumption when we're talking about townie speculation? Three is where one should start off and then shift the assumption around as the game dictates.

Why in particular would you even want somebody to post a full list of three mafia on Day Two of the game with no dead members of a mafia?

Because the only thing that a

dead

confirmed townie can do to help us is to memoralize their thoughts/suspicions in their posts. It's usually better to put this useful information in posts prior to death - yes, even from Day Two. Also, to a lesser extent, it's interesting to see who that player named if they turn up dead scum.


I saw Xtox lurking about the forums earlier. I want his imput, namely in response to my questions but I'll settle with anything useful for starters.
I also want to know what Seraphim thinks of everything.

[Green Crayons]

Gorrad, why the FOS on Seraphim?
Gorrad, since you blindly agree with the wiki's dichotomy, why are you more certain that ZEE is scum instead of the doctor?

[Green Crayons]

Extreme WIFOMing, closing other options. Take into account that ZEEnon's been inactive for the first day and was then eager to make up for that. Hes most likely town in my opinion, just tried to look it too much in the beginning unfortunately.

I'm not of the opinion that ZEE is scum, so congrats on trying to convince me that he's town. Beat you to it.

First of all, I'm not blindly following OR leeching. I've seen scum do this first-hand, Random Mafia 3, where I led the attack on UROE D1. A case that started as him commenting on night kills.

...

I don't follow the idea of it being one or the other. I follow it being a scumtell. I suppose it COULD be because ZEE's the doc, but I've never seen that first-hand, and I have seen it as a very solid scumtell.

Did you read your quotation that you cited? In order to support your vote you cite my quotation of the Wiki. The wiki article, which is based off of anecdotal evidence from Jeep. That anecdotal evidence shows that people who perform this tell are usually scum or the doctor. But, you're only willing to use that anecdotal evidence to say that ZEE is scum (because that's all you've seen), instead of acknowledging that Jeep also says that doctors have a bad habit of performing this tell. So, you're right. You

aren't

blindly following. You're cherry picking to give an excuse for someone who has the potential to be the doctor. Scummy, much?

Seraphim had "Alright. Day 2, dead SK, no NKs. We got lucky. Time to start hunting scum." Which is worthy of an FoS for the same reason as ZEE's worthy of a vote, but not at the same scale.

I agree.

Touche. ZEEnon, IMO, is more likely to be scum.

So you admit that you're scummy, just that you think ZEE is more scummy than you? Excellent defense. Added on with my Day One complaints, I'm going to

Vote: Seraphim

.

Xtox

: What do you think of Albert's play?

[Green Crayons]

Just because your name is mentioned doesn't mean that someone's necessarily talking about you. Sheish, get over yourself.

[Green Crayons]

Hey, folks. Seraphim conceded that he's scummy. Why aren't we voting him?

[Green Crayons]

Nice to see DOS managed to write a whole bunch about nothing in answering my questions. You could have just said "I'm not answering," it would have saved me time thinking you were actually going to answer.

Xtox's refusal to engage in this game has been noted. I'm hoping this final pester will rouse some sort of activity out of him before I go and tattle to the mod and request a prod. Or a replacement. Something.

I'm willing to bet a Kor or Gor scum. I don't think they're together, so it would be an either/or situation. Would need to do an individual reread of each to determine which I think would be scummier.

I

still

don't know why people aren't voting the self-admitted scumster. If Seraphim has an explanation for his poor play, I'm all ears. I think a votecount is nigh, so maybe an impending lynch will get him to attempt to explain himself.

[Green Crayons]

Doubt he admited hes scum. Your words are strongly suggestive when Seraphim could be a poor townie right now.

Fine, we'll do a...

Recap

:
action X = commenting upon night activity

Seraphim said that he's suspicious of ZEE because ZEE performed action X.
Seraphim said that action X is scummy.
Albert said that Seraphim also performed action X.
Seraphim said OH YEAH YOU'RE RIGHT, but just that ZEE is "more likely to be scum" (actual quote), as if him and ZEE are mutually exclusive from being scumbags.


1. He admits that his own action is scummy. He does not attempt to explain why he committed this action, he just let's this self-admittal hang in the air as if we're supposed to forget about it.
2. In doing this, if he were town, he would realize that town inevitably are going to commit suspicious actions. It just so happens that this action X is a scum/doctor tell.

Then

, realizing that he is (allegedly) town and made this mistake, he does not apply that potential to ZEE and reasserts ZEE's scumminess because of committing action X.
3. Also, he promotes the fact that it's an either/or situation between him and ZEE, which makes no sense unless if he already knows he isn't in the same camp as ZEE. The tell doesn't work once per game or something silly like that.


I just reviewed play that can be easily attributed to a crash course in Scum Thinking 101. Looks like a scum lynch to me.

[Green Crayons]

Seraphim is scum. 327 is the nail on the coffin.

[Green Crayons]

You're so engaged, you have made three useful posts (out of nine)! Thrilling. And all one-liners to boot. And they all seem disconnected to the flow of conversation. So, yes. You're "engaged," in the sense that every so often you throw this thread a bone. But it looks like you're lurking and staying just within the minimum requirements of being here, which means you're lurkerscum or lurkertown, neither of which should be tolerated.

I've asked you several things regarding Albert/your play in general, none of them you have responded to. Here, in condensed format so you won't have to filter posts:
1. You originally wanted to vote Albert, but never mentioned the reasons as to why.
2. Within the same post of wanting to vote Albert, you hammer wasser. Why?
3. You have been adamant about "scummy play style shouldn't be vote worthy." You were happy to discuss/excuse wasser's play style, your play style... but not Albert's? Why the exception?
4. Do you find Albert's play style suspicious/scummy? Would you bracket him together with you/wasser in order to support your argument "consistently scummy play style does not a scum make?"

Three on Zee, three on Seraphim. I don't trust either of them. I trust Korlash and ABR, but not really GC, and I totally trust myself. Happy with my vote.

So you don't trust Seraphim but you trust him enough to be happy with your vote alongside his own?

[Green Crayons]

Oh, fair enough. ZEE's vote didn't register.




...Well, what do you think of Korlash?

[Green Crayons]

Yes. Yes you did. Apparently I'm not fully awake.

[Green Crayons]

It's not a matter of reading, but of retention. Just need my coffee before I should attempt to divert my attention between more than a single thing in the morning.

[Green Crayons]

It's a possibility. But the conversation veered elsewhere, for better or for worse. Do you feel that opining on potential town roles is a good thing to do on Day Two?

[Green Crayons]

Hmm I must really be lost. What did I do to get paired with sera again? Becuase he voted the same person I did?

I don't think you're pared with Seraphim. My Gorrad/Korlash (either/or, not both) scum dichotomy theory is completely independent of Seraphim's guilt.

I would like Seraphim to make some sort of an attempt to squeeze his neck out from this noose. And when he fails, I would like people to vote accordingly, please.


Thanks.

[Green Crayons]

I didn't want my suspicion of you/Gorrad to be tied up with Seraphim's obvscum. That's all.

[Green Crayons]

Concerning the role/mechanics speculation in 336, I have to ask once again:

Do you feel that opining on potential town roles is a good thing to do on Day Two?

[Green Crayons]

366. I have slight idiot syndrome.

Since I already addressed you with that question, and it went unanswered, you should have known what I meant. I can't tell if you're purposefully not answering or if you are being thick.

[Green Crayons]

There is no universal answer. It depends on the game, and what situation we're in. At this point in the game, I would think it is alright to do it a little, but we should avoid discussing it a lot.

What benefit - specific to this game - do you think it will allow us to have at this point in time? Speculating who may have what power roles looks like a good way to give scum ideas that they might have otherwised missed with no upside potential except a warm fuzzy feeling that we might have a useful power role or two that now is in the mafia's sights.

How are you qualifying speculating about power roles only "a little?"
What are the positives of discussing it just "a little?"
If we're going to speculate, why are you limiting it to "a little?" It looks like the logic behind it is that extensive role speculation is harmful to the town because it helps scum. If that's the case, then role speculation in general is harmful, and the amount merely dictates the severity of the harm done. Therefore, I come full circle: What benefit do you see in speculation at this point in time?


I'm not too keen on your desire to discuss roles at this point in time. If anything, the current game status (no town dead, SK removed from the scene) looks like role discussion/speculation is actually where we don't want to go. As far as I can tell, we're currently ahead. Speculation at this point seems like a good way to shoot ourselves in the foot.

[Green Crayons]

Korlash: I'm willing to bet wasser would have hit town instead of scum. His D1 lynch (when the odds for not being lynched were with him) should cause hesitation in anyone's confidence as to his ability to be able to perform against the odds (his search in finding mafia admist the other 11 players). I'm firm in my opinion we're much better off with wasser the SK dead on D1.

If done correctly, it can be a useful tool for scum hunting. It can also help us sort out the later mess of when people do claim.

If you're going to use role speculation to notch a few town points beneath a player's name on your tally chart, keep it to yourself - it's not something that needs to be shared with the town at large when that player isn't under suspicion. The notion that speculating which individual players have what specific roles will somehow help the town in days to come when role reveals occur is absurd. It either 1. exposes a town player to mafia scrutiny or 2. gives scum role claim ideas. I'm not buying it.

Again, speculating only 'a little' is helpful for finding scum. To state how it is helpful in finding scum would nullify the point of that advantage, though. And, again, it can help the town make sense out of claims later on, how they make sense, why...

Let me rephrase my question, because you misinterpreted what I was asking. You are saying it's okay to speculate about roles - but only "a little." Well, what are you qualifications for speculation being a little, as opposed to say, "moderately," or "a fair amount," or "extensively?" It's arbitrary, and since you yourself as saying there's a big difference in the helpful:hurtful ratio all dependent upon this quantity qualifer, it's a dangerous game you're playing - even by your own standards.

I fail to see how you come to this conclusion. Extensive speculation harms the town greatly. Slight speculation can help the town.

The common factor in both of those things is town role speculation. You haven't shown me why town role speculation at this point in time for this game is good.

Sort of. From an information standpoint, we're in an eleven-player game with a day start.

No, this is a mischaracterization of our current status. From a power role information standpoint we're in an eleven-player game with a day start. But from a player information standpoint, we were given a free day of interactions.

Also, since you're taking the position that we're in a Day One type situation, I find it equally odd that you're wanting to have role speculation about specific players. Do you normally engage in role speculation on Day One? Specific player role speculation is simply Mass Claim's little brother. I find both to be harmful if used in the early stages of any game with a competent mod.

[Green Crayons]

I'm waiting with bated breath, Seraphim.

[Green Crayons]

A quick search shows that he is only playing one game at a time - at least, as far as I can tell. I would ask that

the mod prod him

, just to be on the safe side.

Still waiting on Seraphim. Must be hard work trying to think up bad excuses.

[Green Crayons]

Do you just not want to answer my questions, Xtox?

[Green Crayons]

My goodness you're frustrating.

1. The question is obvious (that being, "why did you want to lynch Albert?"), and not to mention the first time I asked this question I specifically said "Why did you want to lynch Albert?" Stop pretending simple reading comprehension is a mysterious concept and actually answer the question:

why did you want to lynch Albert Day One

?

2. So your reason to switch from someone who you thought was scummy (Albert) - though the reasons behind that suspicion remain unknown - to another player (wasser) was simply because you thought you might as well as go ahead and bandwagon him to a lynch? Even though you had been professing a lack of confidence in a wasser vote earlier in the game (195 and 205)? I was asking because it seemed like such a strong break from your previous announcements that didn't think wasser looked scummy and a wasser-lynch looked like a scum excuse to lynch a townie.

Care to explain the sudden turn around, or do you just enjoy lynching townies because it's "inevitable?

"

Nice misrep. I never called my, Zwet, or Albert, or anyones play style scummy.

You're right. You

specifically

never said "so-and-so's play is scummy." I never meant to suggest that you made such a bold claim. What I was suggesting is that you were defending someone's play which was perceived to be scummy (199). You also didn't "like the manner in which [wasser was] being attacked," and he was being attacked because his play style was perceived as scummy. (205). In fact, you made this explicit defense - that a player's consistently scummy play style is no reason for a lynch because it leads to mislynches - to Gorrad (247). So, no sir. You're doing the misrepresentation, here. You were talking about play style, and how the "scumminess" of that play style should/shouldn't factor into a vote.

Nice misrep. Had nothing to do with playstyle.

This is total crap. See above for how you were clearly discussing play style. And my question originally directed towards you was how you perceived Albert's play style. Which you directly shunned as "pointless" (334).

So, my question still stands: Why were you happy to discuss wasser's play style, your play style, but not Albert's when I asked? (Hint: This has everything to do with play style.)

Since you answered the original question in your response, I really don't give a crap what reason to this question you would tell me. It's obviously because you have some sort of weird belligerent mentality with a sense of some chip on your shoulder.

Nonsensical question. Also invloves a misrep.

Hardly. You didn't give any reasons why you wanted Albert lynched D1. You still haven't. The biggest criticism I saw of him was his play style. Since you wanted Albert killed D1, I assumed you agreed with this criticism. If you did, it would have gone against your adament wasser-lynch because of scummy play hate. But since you helped narrow down your Albert hate (it wasn't because of his play style!), I see that this contradiction does not exist. Therefore, you're less likely to be scummy. A m a z i n g, but true!

I don't think your questions were even aimed at me, I think they were an attempt to put me in a bad light.

Apart from the fact that this doesn't make sense, any notion that they put you in "a bad light," in the sense that my questions seemed to start from the position of you being suspicious simply stemmed from the way your actions looked suspicious and so I was questioning the suspiciousness of those suspicious actions.

Suspicious!

tl;dr

, for Xtox specifically: just read the underlined parts. They are my questions that you have chosen to continually refuse to answer.


Would like to see Seraphim expound on his role description a bit more. Still more than comfortable with my vote on him at the moment.

[Green Crayons]

Could you give more detail on your PM

On the flavor, you mean?

Heh. I'm pretty sure I know to what Xtox is referring. Seraphim can get lynched now, since he doesn't have a clue (oh and all the other discrepancies others have pointed out).

[Green Crayons]

2. If I am targeted for a kill, the kill does not go through.
3. Any other action translates to the person I am hiding behind. For example, if someone targets me to track, investigate, role-cop, etc, I would return a result of the person I am hiding behind.

I don't like this, it contradicts what a "hider" does. They hide. I don't think I've ever seen/heard of a hider who only escapes from kills, but other night targets are transferred to the player he's leeching off of. I would like further clarification of the "Something to do with spirit threads" hand wave to this contradiction in 418.

Xtoxm, GC, what exactly are you talking about? Do you want the flavor for my role PM as well? Straight-forward questions and I will give you straight-forward answers.

I'll settle for flavor, specifically any flavor concerning your night ability. I reread my own PM and have decided any specific questions I might ask probably skate on thin ice in terms of quotation.

[Green Crayons]

Seraphim, did the mod ever clarify for you/did you ask what would happen if you targeted a scum? Or what would happen if you were targetted by a non-scum, non-"spirit thread" tracker?

[Green Crayons]

(Hint: If not, please do.)

[Green Crayons]

Hey folks. Hiders who target scum die. Seraphim doesn't because he's super special and OGML is giving him a super cool ability? No. Stop getting cold feet.

Mastin, this is me skimming your posts because Easter weekend is a bad time for a deadline. And this is my response: -blank-. Will be happy to talk on the morrow.

[Green Crayons]

Oh, and might as well as see what other BS he pulls out of his butt:

Or what would happen if you were targetted by a non-scum, non-"spirit thread" tracker?

My role PM seems to indicate that such a role does not exist though I will ask the mod this question.

Answer please.

[Green Crayons]

I can go for a Korlash or Gorrad vote at the moment. Will need to review Phily, Korlash and Gorrad activity.

[Green Crayons]

Korlash: I thought Mastin over through the night but I don't know how stupid scum would be in an incredibly blatant attempt to divert attention away from their partner's quickly sinking ship. Mastin doesn't come across as stupid. He might be egotistical enough to think it would have worked (I don't know the guy), but that would still leave the potental for him to be exposed if Seraphim perished at any other point.


Xtox: Sup? You going to answer those questions, ever? Also (new one): why did you hop off the Seraphim wagon never to return?

[Green Crayons]

Just stopping in to say I don't like the Xtox hate.

I'm sure at least one scum is on his wagon at the moment - I just hate that both Korlash and Gorrad joined.

Still doing reads and such.

[Green Crayons]

Post Disclaimer

: I haven't read past page 21. I am not commenting on anything from D3 in this post. Do not expect me to comment about anything on D3 for probably another day or two because I planned on getting smashed this weekend like any responsible adult with a healthy dependency problem.



I don't really want to go into it at the moment because this is really just an after thought to the rest of this post (but will be happy to at a later point in time), but I'm thinking Xtox, ZEE and Albert are solid town. DOS and Mastin are leaning town.

I think we should be lynching either Korlash or Gorrad today. Nobody else. I don't want to explain my reasons for this (so, yes, I'm asking people to trust me and my judgment) at all today - besides saying that the reasons are grounded in D2 judgment - because it would really help scum at the town's expense. And the deal is, in my opinion, if we string one of them up and he's scum then the other is pretty much cleared town. If we lynch one of them up and he's town the other is a scumbag.

I did a reread of D2, and have some questions for the respective players. I would like to think they would take a moment to answer/comment upon them since I've tried to parse them down to the really scummy moments of D2. If someone else has asked you about these points in D3, please just say so and I'll catch 'em when I read up.

Gorrad

Seraphim had "Alright. Day 2, dead SK, no NKs. We got lucky. Time to start hunting scum." Which is worthy of an FoS for the same reason as ZEE's worthy of a vote, but not at the same scale.

Touche. ZEEnon, IMO, is more likely to be scum.

Gorrad, your logic here is exactly the same voiced by Seraphim. How does that make you feel? How do you explain this? Do you still feel the same way about ZEE? Why did you feel the need to reiterate this feeling in 463 when the Seraphim lynch started to waver? Don't you think your 463 looks really bad (as in,

really freakin' bad

) beside 468 where you're just following Albert like a lost puppy but giving really bad excuses so it doesn't look like your following Albert like a lost puppy?

Gorrad, what was the point of your 384?

I could easily see 409 as an early bus. Gotta jump ship quick when a scumbuddy makes a piss poor claim. Gorrad, how do you align this post with your 428 which pretty much makes a big fat excuse for Seraphim's bogus claim?

Why were you linking to tvtropes?

Korlash

In 302 Korlash explains he liked his ZEE vote because 1) originally he noted the night-action discussion scum tell and then because 2) he thought ZEE's responses were scummy. A day (and page) later in 330, he's oblivious to the Seraphim suspicion - even though it started out from the same genesis as the ZEE suspicion. I didn't catch Korlash commenting upon Seraphim again until

six

days later in 411, when he claims to be ready to hammer simply because he doesn't like the claim. He says that he wants Seraphim to explain himself more before he hammers/votes, gets into a small tiff with ZEE with the position that Seraphim's claim

is

scummy, and in 422 he once again says that Seraphim's claim is scummy. Now, here's what really gets me: By 422 ZEE has unvoted so Korlash wouldn't be hammering. By 422 Seraphim has further explained his role (the only reason Korlash gave as to why he didn't hammer in 411), but Korlash has repeatedly voiced a strong suspicion of that claim. So... what's the deal? Where's the vote? It makes absolutely no sense - he looks like he doesn't want to do in a scum buddy. The icing on the cake is his 427 (and later posts) when he's arguing with Mastin about just how scummy Seraphim's claim is but there's still absolutely no vote.

Hmm I must really be lost. What did I do to get paired with sera again? Becuase he voted the same person I did?

This seemed to be a bit of a premature denial. The closest thing I spotted to someone connecting Korlash to Seraphim was Phily's 356, but that was Phily wanting to know what Albert thought of Korlash

and

Gorrad, and he thought they could either be paired with Seraphim. I mean, looking at Phily's post he doesn't seem to be too terribly specific or accusing, so Korlash's post looks a bit like an attempt to quash any connection between him and SeraScum.

I'm still not getting why people have come to the conclussion of a me/gorrad deal. Be it partners or an either/or thing. From my perspective it seems like a few key players keep trying to play that card left and right as if trying to either set up future lynches or start an early misdirect.

An early misdirect from what? And shouldn't people lay the ground work for future lynches if we see scummy behavior?

We can agree to disagree then. I will say I would rather see a dead Mafia then a Dead SK right now but I would also rather see a Dead Sk then a Dead Town. So I suppose the situation could be worse.

Really weird. I get a manufactured vibe from this little argument he was making.

I don't like Korlash's intricate knowledge of what tools scum has in his 423 argument.

[Green Crayons]

Skimmed D3.

Phil appeared to have a guilty.

Albert is being dumb. Attempting to discern cop results is not innately scum. I want to know why you thought this to begin with (even if you backed away from it later).

Green Crayons, you are pretty much confirmed town to me. Please give analysis on Xtoxm + Gladdos. Gladdos especially in relation to Seraphim.

Xtox is town. Dunno about DOS in relation to Seraphim. I remember her making an extremely valid point about the doctor loop hole that helped me confirm my suspicions. She hasn't exactly been the most active.

words

While I can appreciate excessive verbosity as much as the next guy, if you add some sort of structure or organization to your posts (maybe by even splitting them up unto smaller posts), you'll come across much more effective. And I won't skim your posts as often. And people will read your posts more often. And your information will digest better.


I believe DOS' claim because of the mention of a passive ability. I have one, too. I have no indication (direct or otherwise) of any "latent" ability. Truth be told, I do not think my character would have a latent ability.

I think Xtox is town - has nothing to do with his role, everything to do with his play. Therefore, I think his claim is real. What I remember from the anime, however, was that all his character did was muck things up. At one point he and Ichigo's sisters team up, if I recall correctly. Did he start doing stuff then with some semblance of competence?

[Green Crayons]

First

Korlash-related stuff

:

This is actually the biggest reason I like him as scum today and also a small reason Gorrad is cleared a bit in my eyes. Where is the evidence that if one of me of Gorrad flips town, the other is obv scum? Where is the evidence that if one is scum, the other is obv town? This looks like he's setting up one mislynch today with the other to follow the next day. However, I'm still willing to allow him the chance to backtrack and try to manufacture evidence, or of course point out where I missed it. Whichever...

There are a few things I would rather not talk about. The evidence behind the Gorrad/Korlash dichotomy is one of them, though it's plain to see with one's eyes open while looking at D2. I will say that Phily, our cop and confirmed innocent, thought that either Gorrad or Korlash was scummy. My reasoning does not stem from this fact, but this just shows that a confirmed innocent was also of the mind that at least one of these two were scumbags. So, technically, the town doesn't just have to trust me - the town can trust Phily and I.

I'll put this as short as I can. I like flavor and I like claims. seeing as how I called Chandolier as mafia on day 1 and seeing as how I was right about Sera I think I have good reason to do what I do to claims. I didn't hammer him at first so he could full claim, after whoever unvoted me voting him was kinda pointless. I didn't vote him in the end because Mastin had made it look like he was claiming Tracker and half confirming Sera's story. Now if you can explain to me how putting a guy who's claim I am currently questioning at L-1 would make it more likely to get answers from him before a lynch you can continue arguing my not vote as somthing. If someone had put sera at L-1 again I probably would have voted him. but as long as I was continueing my question, I felt keeping him at L-2 would give me the most time to continue my questioning.

And this makes no sense. You were fine with hammering him, but not fine with putting him L-1 because it was pointless? If you find someone scummy,

you vote them

. It isn't a pointless exercise. And if you're wanting more time to continually question someone, then I can understand keeping them at L-2. But saying you wanted more time by keeping him at L-2 while at the same time proclaiming you would hammer him if someone else put their vote back on is totally contradictory. Your reasoning is nonsensical.

You just helped prove my post. Thank you. Even you can only find one post linking me and sera as partners, so let's think for a moment. Why do you think I would ask why people were linking me to him... Oh right, because no one ever gave any reasoning or posts as to it! Philly just up and said it out of the blue! yeah asking him why is so scummy on my part. /sarcasm

Phily just threw out the notion that maybe you

or

Gorrad might be connected to Seraphim to Albert, and wanted to know what Albert made of it. The fact that you jumped into the conversation attempting to denounce a line of argument that had yet to be made looks like blatant pre-mature distancing.

In retrospect obviously Sera, but at the time I only meant misdirect from anyone currently under pressure. sera and Zee are probably the only two that were, so I suppose I meant misdirect from one of them.

Phily wanted to focus on you or Gorrad. Phily was our cop, so you most definitely can't be saying he was trying to misdirect contemporary pressure for any anti-town reason. The only other person who I saw suggesting the Gorrad/Korlash dichotomy was myself - and I had made it abundantly clear that lynching Seraphim was a priority. So maybe you can explain more what ill-begotten pressure "misdirection" you were attempting to dissuade.

... How so? And how does it make me scum? Just throwing out useless stuff now huh?

No, your statement looks like you're scum trying to look town. Hence, manufactured. I don't find that opinion to be useless.

My knowledge of past theme games makes me scum now?

No. You should have no idea if scum are given safe claims or not. Your words and actions come across as if you know for a fact there are safe claims involved. Nobody would know for a fact except scum and OGML.



Now,

Gorrad-related stuff

:

1. Frankly, I don't see how the logic there is the same at all. For one thing, Seraphim has an obvious strong bias. Secondly, I, unlike Seraphim, posted reasons why ZEE was more likely. You can't say we have the same logic when Seraphim doesn't post logic. And yes, I still feel the same way about ZEE. In fact, Xtoxm's claim's satisfied me enough for now, Unvote, Vote: ZEEnon.

Here's the logic: "Seraphim is pretty scummy! However, ZEE is

even more

scummy! Therefore, let's vote ZEE and not Seraphim." It acknowledges that Seraphim is scummy but you want to bypass him for a "more scummy" candidate. I use quotation marks because I find that opinion to be incredibly suspect. But, you both used it. That's how. Bias doesn't come into play in determining the fact that the two of you used the exact same logic.

What were your posted reasons as to why ZEE was more likely? I didn't catch anything substantial on my read through yesterday.
Do you really think two scumbags made the exact same mistake?

2. I found ZEE's original transgression worse than Seraphim's. I found him scummier. However, the kills paradox, aka the reason I was voting Seraphim, slipped my mind in 463, hence why I thought I was voting ZEEnon. When I realized that I wasn't, I looked through my post history and remembered why my vote was where it was.

So you don't think the timing of this "slip of the mind" wasn't terribly convenient/bad timing (from whatever perspective you want to look at it)?

3. 384 is a response to 383

Alright, that's what I thought. But I can't understand why you're making it in response to 383. I think we're interpreting Phily's statement different, so please explain to me what it meant to you.

I see the difference in your issue with the claim itself and the mechanics of the claim in 4. I think 5 hinges upon you just so happening to forget the incredibly legitimate reasons to vote Seraphim when his wagon was starting to tremble and waver.



And finally,

non-Korlash/Gorrad-related stuff

:

what about [Xtox's] play, the play he pretty much does as both scum and town from my experience with him, makes you think him town? How can you make the statement "He is town" over what you see as just a town playstyle from him?

I think his play resembles his town play more so than his scum play. Xtox can be an incredibly infuriating player to game with because he's more about voicing his gut and emotions than his logic and deduction, but I think he's a little less of a pain in the ass when he's scum because he cares more about getting lynched. My gut just says town. I've seen him call out scum and then get rush lynched because the scum manipulate the town into thinking Xtox's play isn't helpful to the town - I wouldn't be surprised if that's what is happening here. I also think his claim is legit because I caught him searching for *something* when Seraphim claimed. I assumed it was because Xtox had a passive ability (which I indicated at some point in D2) and so was seeing if Seraphim had one as well. Apparently (and I'm assuming here), Xtox was actually looking to see if Seraphim had a latent ability. That means Xtox didn't just pull this claim out of his butt.

Erg0 is a sheep of the worse kind. Easily falling into enemy plans, easily manipulated by the scum. He's no less than a coward and an incapable.

You're dumb. Hey, look, now we're both name calling.

[Green Crayons]

What are your thoughts on Jebus / LynchHimNotMe?

I don't have any feelings towards him, because he has been more of a lurker than you. Amazing, but true.

Last time I felt that there was a scum between X and Y which left only Z to be a scum, I got screwed over because the town just didn't go after Z. Or something to that affect - I'm only recalling from memory and I'm pretty well into my alcohol abuse at this early hour of the morning (oh, weddings). With that in mind, I actually would be really happy with a Jebus lynch simply because he's acting like a super lurker scumbag. I'm not dead-set on it because we

are

ahead and can afford a mislynch - so I'm willing to go for either Korlash or Gorrad today.

Refusing to explain seting up future lynches is always bad and only confirms what Bullshit it is. saying people should trust the ideas of one guy (who also never explained himself BTW) just because he was town is also stupid. Town is wrong all the time. Being town doesn't make you a god who knows all. Explain your reasonings scum.

This is so scummy that it hurts so much. And it's scummy because the reason for my dichotomy is so incredibly town. If you truly don't see the cause behind it, it's because you're either a really dense/blind town or you're a scumbag feigning ignorance.

And the town

isn't

wrong all the time - what the hell is with that statement? How in the world do you think town wins if they're wrong all the time? And, yes. We should pay attention to the indicators

of the confirmed, dead cop

because we know that his suspicions were not motivated by scum origins. Now, if we disagree with his inclinations is one thing. But I don't. And I trust the cop's inclinations because he's was town and they matched my own. So I'm asking the town to trust the cop (as they should) and me (who was one of the players who strongly pushed for scumbag Seraphim's lynch). Not too much of a stretch here.


I'm not actually fit to respond to the rest at the moment. But I can't help myself in responding to the above.

[Green Crayons]

Last time I felt that there was a scum between X and Y which left only Z to be a scum, I got screwed over because the town just didn't go after Z. Or something to that affect - I'm only recalling from memory and I'm pretty well into my alcohol abuse at this early hour of the morning (oh, weddings). With that in mind, I actually would be really happy with a Jebus lynch simply because he's acting like a super lurker scumbag. I'm not dead-set on it because we are ahead and can afford a mislynch - so I'm willing to go for either Korlash or Gorrad today.

As an addendum, I'm not 100% certain of myself, so I don't discount the possibility that one of the players I have labeled as town/leaning town are actually scum. Which is why I haven't been a major Jebus-pusher at the moment - one of my current town players might actually be a scum partner to Gorrad or Korlash. (I am much more confident in my Gorrad/Korlash dichotomy than my whole town list, for the record. Like.. 95%. lol, statistics. I pulled that out've my butt. But I'm super confident in one of those two being scum - much more so than the other five or so players I listed as town actually being town.)

Clarification.

[Green Crayons]

Refusing to explain seting up future lynches is always bad and only confirms what Bullshit it is. ... Explain your reasonings scum.

It's a nice way of calling my post scummy without saying how. You just can't find reasons for anything can you?

I will plainly say that I do not see a reason for the dichotomy.

I actually typed it out, previewed it, looked it over, gave it a final moment or two of thought and then decided against it. I'm really confident in it and I think my suspicions of both Gorrad and Korlash are legitimate while standing on their own - dichotomy not needed. Since one of you (Korlash) has a significant chance at being scum, I'm not going to harm the town to appease scum to explain why these two are in an either/or position. The rest of the town can just accept the fact that I (and Phily, and ZEE...) find them both to be suspicious and make their judgments based off of the examples of scum play I brought up.

Caught him "searching"? What the hell does that mean? How can you catch him "searching" in the middle of the day? Are you talking about an in game activity, or like search the web? I mean... I just don't understand what you are saying here...

So you're basically telling me that you're just willfully ignoring pretty much everything that happened yesterday? Did you even review D2?

And I hardly see how "searching" corroborates with "Filming to increase ratings"... It hardly confirms him no matter how you clearify it...

It means he was acting in such a manner prior to attention being showered upon him. Therefore, that he has always been acting with a certain role in mind. Thus, he did not just pull it right out of his ass. That helps to confirm his claim, not his alignment.

Excuse me? If you are accusing me of lurking then be up-front about it, and then explain why you think that.

Pardon? Are you suggesting that you have been an incredibly active player this game?

I am just not following the logic here. If we can “afford a mislynch” then this should be an argument in favor of Green Crayons being more willing to consider lynching Jebus, rather than keeping his options narrowed down to Korlash or Gorrad as he ends up doing.

I would rather have a mis-lynch that puts us one step closer to getting scum (the other half of a Gorrad/Korlash dichotomy) than a mislynch that doesn't help us at all (if Jebus flips what the hell does that tell us? Nothing). Sorry, I like all lynches - even lynches of town - to help me narrow down who scum are.

This person was town, so let’s follow whoever they were going after.

This is clearly a bad argument, and it is furthermore just about the easiest argument for scum to manipulate their play to subvert. It is pretty much the most classic way to get a town to chase it's own tail.

Oh, wow. Wow. Wow.

DOS thinks we should completely ignore suspicions of confirmed (dead) innocents. That's about the scummiest thing I can think of to say. It doesn't matter that Phily was the cop. He could have been a vanilla townie for all I care. But he was town. It's confirmed. We don't have to worry about him attempting to manipulate the town with his suspicions when we look at the previous days. We can take his opinions and suspicions at face value - a luxury we don't have with any living players.

As I already said, if we look back and decide that we don't agree with his suspicions, then we can just leave them be. I've already covered the fact that town isn't always right - hell, Phily wasn't right with his desire to not see a Seraphim lynch. I also loled at the "manipulating" dead town's play. It's clear that Phily suspected Gorrad and Korlash. You don't have to agree with those suspicions, but they're there.

It's a fact

. Please tell me how stating Phily's suspicions is somehow "manipulating" his play?

Basically, I'm suggesting we should pay attention to dead town's suspicions as we reflect upon our opinions. We pay attention to living players' opinions who we think are town. So the only difference is the fact that dead players are town-confirmed by the mod whereas living ones are not, so dead players' opinions are more legitimate.

Not

reliable, but legitimate, because we can trust them more to reflect the town's best interest. The fact that Korlash and DOS both don't want to rely on this incredibly rich minefield of information is... I don't know... incredibly scummy?

Still, I have not liked the way he has attacked people throughout the game. This includes his attack on Giuseppe on Day One, his attack on Seraphim from Day One and Day Two (despite the fact that these attacks ended up being against scum), and now his attacks on Gorrad and Korlash on Day Three. There is something about the way he has been going after people that does not sit with me.

lol. "I don't like how GC plays even though it helped him zero in on a SeraScum lynch."

Yes. From what I can discern, ZEEnon has been researching the game independently, creating theories based off that research independently, and drawing conclusions as to alignments largely based off those theories. Green Crayons has been doing no such thing.

I just pick names out of a hat. You caught me!

blargh I'm right for no real reason

What's your non-circumstantial evidence, then?

I am definitely not liking Green's attitude in the game so far. He seems to be pushing for any lynch that will stick, and has done so from the beginning--his posts show logic, but they, again, seem to be trying to purposefully set up early lynches, and lynches for the next day.

You're right. I like to look ahead. Like Seraphim from the end of D1 to a D2 lynch. Like Gorrad/Korlash from the end of D2 to a D3 lynch. The template worked for Seraphim, it could easily work again for Gorrad/Korlash.

Mod

, can we get a vote count please?

[Green Crayons]

GC should be ignored by everyone until the end of the day.

Would love to hear that non-circumstantial evidence you have against Xtox.

[Green Crayons]

Since when does "not being incredibly active" mean "lurking"? I post when I can, and I post when I have something to say. The only time where I was inactive was the time frame between April 1 - April 6, when I told the town ahead of time that I would be gone as "part of a required test protocol." I probably average about one to two posts a day, and that is about what I expect my posting rate to be.

Yawn. I said that Jebus was being more of a lurker than you. I never said that you were lurking, simply any lurking done by Jebus was at a greater scale than you. By that standard, Jebus has been more of a lurker than Xtox, ZEE, Korlash, Gorrad and myself. If anything, I was - originally - merely commenting on the fact that you haven't been the most frequent of posters while explaining my thoughts on Jebus. Then I you wanted me to spell it out to you that I didn't think you were an incredibly frequent poster. Now you're getting all pissy for no reason. Way to go and blow up over something so incredibly not important.

Let’s compare your “interpretation” to what I actually said:

Let's compare your "interpretation" to what I actually said:

We should pay attention to the indicators of the confirmed, dead cop because we know that his suspicions were not motivated by scum origins.

Now, if we disagree with his inclinations is one thing

. But I don't. And I trust the cop's inclinations

because he's was town and they matched my own

. So I'm asking the town to trust the cop (as they should) and me (who was one of the players who strongly pushed for scumbag Seraphim's lynch). Not too much of a stretch here.

This person was town, so let’s follow whoever they were going after.

You think we should follow PhilyEc (and you) without question because PhilyEc is confirmed and town, and therefore his reasoning is legitimate and not scum-motivated. I think PhilyEc's suspicions are worth noting, but that they should not subsume a player's own thought process.

It's amazing how aligned my original post and DOS' most recently formed opinion are. I like how she's pretending as if her opinion stands in stark contrast to my originally voiced opinion. I like how she's making up a ton of bullshit (e.g. I think we should follow confirmed town without question, I think confirmed town's suspicions should overrule our own inclinations, etc.) that she's pulling from her revision of my original post, but it's bullshit because he "interpretation" is so incredibly off. You know, it's almost as if she ignored my whole first post entirely, took a single line out of context and jumped on me because she wants me out of this game for some inexplicable reason.

FISH-SHAPED SOLID WASTE

Fine. ZEE is the doctor. Or, if he isn't, he been acting like he is the doctor - and to the outside observer it's one and the same. He dropped at least three big time hints/tells at the beginning of yesterday. It was so incredibly obvious that I can't believe you didn't catch it. In light of these doctor tells, Gorrad and Korlash pushed his lynch heavy all throughout the day. My best guess as to why ZEE isn't currently dead is because scum thought they would at least give it a day/night cycle so we wouldn't immediately go back and check out what scumbags really wanted ZEE-doc dead. The fact of the matter is, both Gorrad and Korlash were big ZEE-lynch supporters. So was Seraphim. I think it's either/or because I can't see SeraScum AND scumbuddy one AND scumbuddy two trying to lynch the doctor - it's just too incredibly obvious. But, coupled with their suspicious play style, I'm convinced at least one of them was attempting to help their buddy SeraScum get out from beneath the spotlight while lynching the doctor in the process.
-----

Like the non-madeup evidence you have that makes one of me or Gorrad scum if the other is town and town if the other is scum?

So you agree with me that it isn't made up? Thanks, pal!
-----

The discrepancy between Xtoxm's behavior and his claim are enough to prove that he is fakeclaiming scum.

Examples?

[Green Crayons]

Uh, maybe you should reread what you wrote.

"Like the non-madeup evidence you have that makes one of me or Gorrad scum if the other is town and town if the other is scum?" I know what you were trying to say (my evidence for the Gorrad/Korlash dichotomy was made up) but that's not what your sentence actually says.

Non means not. Negative. Therefore, your sentence reads "Like the not madeup evidence..."
Madeup means not real. Therefore, your sentence reads "Like the not not real evidence..."
Double negatives cancel each other out. Therefore, your sentence reads "Like the real evidence..."


So... Yeah. I wasn't twisting your words around. I was playfully pointing out that your sentence structure made your accusation fall flat. Way to miss the point entirely, though, buddy. Actually, the only way my comment would have missed the mark would have been if you were being sarcastic - but your response (that I was "twisting your words") shows that you were being genuine and therefore my criticism stands. Untarnished. Jeeze, touchy.

[Green Crayons]

Vote: Gorrad

. Forgot to do that earlier. I honestly think Korlash and Gorrad are equally scummy. The fact that Gorrad already has some votes on him is why I'm voting him.

To say I want you out of the game for some “inexplicable” reason is ludicrous. I have been suspicious of you for much of the game, and I have made that clear. To say that I would want you dead before the game can reach 5 players alive is to say that if I had the chance to kill all but five players (let’s assume through some special dayvig power), you would be one of the players I kill. In other words, yesterday you were not in my top five “players most likely to be town.”

Oh, it has been abundantly obvious that you've suspected me from pretty much post one. And I know why: you just don't like my play style. So, you're right. "Inexplicable" was the incorrect word to use. My apologies. I should have conjured up "baseless" or "nonsensical" or just plain ole "bad."

Both of these posts are essentially asking me to follow you (i.e. PhilyEc) without question. You explicitly ask the town trust you. That is the very definition of blindly following. I am not in the least convinced that you are town, so the fact that “PhilyEc’s inclinations match with your own” does not mean anything to me. Everything I said I stand by.

It's asking the town to whittle their perspective to only Gorrad and Korlash for the day - not to just lynch them. I said the reasons were grounded in D2 - not explaining them does not mean people can't do the legwork themselves and figure it out on their own. Furthermore, I threw out a whole bunch of suspicious crap about each of the players. So I didn't make these claims and suggestions in a vacuum as you're suggesting, thanks.

As you can probably tell, I think it is very likely that I was indeed scum’s target for a Night One kill, and this was largely the reason why I asked if you “like to kill players like me” back in Post 270. Players like me – of course – being an experienced player (which you admit you suspected since Day One) who has been going after you.

ZEE made an incredibly obvious "I protected DOS last night and she isn't dead" statement near the beginning of D2 through a couple of posts put together. That's when I came around to the thinking that you were very likely N1 target as well. Glad to see we're all on the same page. Hurrah.

I think it quite likely that one scum would take such an avenue of attack, and that has already been proven through Seraphim’s death. To now say with 95% certainty (although you admit this is just a number you’ve thrown out) that there must be a second scum is to stretch too far, in my opinion.

I disagree. The fact that you did catch on that ZEE was hinting he was the doctor only further proves that I'm not some sort of messianic individual with mod-divination powers. It was abundantly obvious that ZEE is the doctor, or is making very obvious doctor plays. So there are two things that damns Gorrad and Korlash: 1) they both pushed hard for an obvDoc lynch and 2) they both attempted to dissuade/not help a scum lynch. These two separate hits against their character just so happened at the same time. Which makes them both incredibly large scumbags. Seraphim looks like he was just trying to catch onto the next biggest suspicion wagon and ride it to a lynch that wasn't himself, thus negating any diminishing impact he may have on their respective scummy play.

Wow, Glados just owned GC.

Would love those actual examples.

[Green Crayons]

The discrepancy between Xtoxm's behavior and his claim are enough to prove that he is fakeclaiming scum.

Your 621 is simply you griefing over Xtox's normal play style. It doesn't explain why that is somehow a discrepancy between play and role. Especially considering my 630 (at the bottom) and 660 (second quote segment) actually show how his claim and behavior actually go incredibly well together. You're nowhere nearly as convincing as you think you are, sorry.

[Green Crayons]

Nah, you're just too pig-headed to understand this game properly.

I'll make sure to take notes.

"Like the non-madeup evidence you have that makes one of me or Gorrad scum if the other is town and town if the other is scum?" I know what you were trying to say (my evidence for the Gorrad/Korlash dichotomy was made up) but that's not what your sentence actually says.

No... If you're going to argue semantics you need to try looking at the full picture.

You said:

"Would love to hear that non-circumstantial evidence you have against Xtox."

What I said was in responce to that (albert's ninja not withstanding) implying I too would like to hear your evidence because you have yet to show me you have any. This means all evidence you have shown is nothing more then made up crap. Ta da! See how easy it is when you actually piece things together.

So... Yeah. I wasn't twisting your words around. I was playfully pointing out that your sentence structure made your accusation fall flat. Way to miss the point entirely, though, buddy. Actually, the only way my comment would have missed the mark would have been if you were being sarcastic - but your response (that I was "twisting your words") shows that you were being genuine and therefore my criticism stands. Untarnished. Jeeze, touchy.

seeing as how you missed the orriginal point thus causing your point to be the failure I didn't miss anything... And while the subtle use of the term "buddy" might be clever when you are actually int he right, once shown you were in fact in the wrong only makes you look like an ass on top of an idiot. So kudos,

buddy

.

"Like the non-madeup evidence you have that makes one of me or Gorrad scum if the other is town and town if the other is scum?"

I know what you were trying to say (my evidence for the Gorrad/Korlash dichotomy was made up) but that's not what your sentence actually says.

It's not semantics: your sentence structure was just plain wrong in terms of what you were intending to say. Semantics would be arguing over whether or not you should an ellipse after "No," not a discussion over what you are actually saying. Besides, I said I knew what you meant, but I was messing around with you because you phrased your wording incorrectly. So... no. I didn't miss your point - I actually have already stated what your point was - and you need to word your sentences correctly.

You might as well just switch your vote onto me now so I can start owning you early. I'm all for wasted time on useless wagons but, I just figured you'd like to tunnel in on me sooner then later.

I have no idea what this means.

Actually he kind is. Xtoxm's readiness to be lynched and refusal to claim really doesn't go well with what he claimed.

Welcome to normal Xtox play.

I mean if he isn't lying his claim does have two opprotunities to be confirmed no?

Yup. And I think he should reveal who he has targeted.

claim

Is this your normal role or was this ability given to you a single night? And how does Xtox claiming he's a "spirit enabler" make you think that he described your role? It sounds like Xtox activates a latent ability and you check up and see if someone's latent ability has been activated. If anything, you're Xtox's role confirmation.

[Green Crayons]

... I've already claimed to be a spirit enabler as well. You're pushing me as scum and failed to read my claim? what a moron...

I read your re-claim/Gorrad targeting incorrectly - thus I was confused as it conflicted with your earlier claim. Must be that pig-headedness just seeping through my ability to read. Hey, if you can mess up sentence structure I guess I can screw up reading comprehension. Tit for tat. Also: How do you know only town has latent abilities? Should we assume this to be the case?

It means between Gorrad and me I'm the most logical choice to be lynched and so wagoning Gorrad is doomed to failure. Not that I think I have any real chance of being lynched either, it's just dumb play on your part wagoning the wrong guy.

So... you're trying to convince me that it's more logical to lynch you instead of Gorrad? Uh. Really?


I've noticed you've declined to comment on your steady push to lynch the obvDoc on D2.

[Green Crayons]

Korlash: I didn't say I missed your claim. I said when you claimed a second time I misread what you wrote, which clashed with what you originally claimed. Thus, I was confused. Also, your insistence that you're the better lynch over Gorrad is still very weird.

My current top suspect would still be Green

because of X, Y and Z

.

Please fill in the bold.


Did we decide upon a mass claim?

[Green Crayons]

can you please respond to:
[quote"Korlash"]Sorry, what? Did I miss something? Can't very well comment on something I have no knowledge about now can I? Are you saying you know who the doctor is?[/ quote]

Please reread 668, 671 and 674. I was/am waiting for ZEE to make his claim before I responded to you in full (which will be basically a "and so what is your response?" so feel free to ready your reply).

So, GC, how about a Glados lynch?

Dunno. She gave me town vibes at the end of yesterday for pointing out the doctor loop-hole with Seraphim, but at that point a scum bus wouldn't surprise me in the least because Seraphim was radioactive. Her continual insistence that Albert/me are super suspicious - especially after our long, hard push for the Seraphim lynch - is

incredibly

a bit frustrating, but I don't know if I would qualify it as scummy. It just strikes me as incredibly stubborn that she doesn't want to admit her initial impressions might be incorrect irregardless of the game's shifting landscape and context of our actions. I would have to do a reread of her play, but I always remember her striking me as leaning town, but sort of hovering in an uncomfortable gray area. Her willingness to volunteer that she has a passive ability made me feel better about her, since I have a passive ability as well and she labeled her ability as "passive" and not "latent" as the current jargon was labeling it - and I don't think scum would be incredibly free with such knowledge because it would probably require them to lie (in other words, if DOS is scum then her passive ability wouldn't make sense to get a one NK immunity) which is always a major way for the scum to slip up.

All of that said, I would be infinitely more comfortable with a Korlash/Gorrad lynch and, barring that, Jebus or Mastin (in that order) over a DOS lynch.

[Green Crayons]

So you are subtley trying to coach Zee on his claim?

Are... are you serious? For starters, there's nothing subtle about me saying "Zee is the doctor because of x, y and z posts/tells/hints." How is it even processing in your brain that that is subtle? I'm blatantly saying what I think. I fail to see how you think it's coaching, as well.

I

did

, however, notice you immediately attacked me (over stuff that has already been posted... did you just not read it earlier?). Knee-jerk reaction, much? Whose stuck in a tunnel vision now? DOS also claimed that this is an abundantly clear conclusion as to ZEE's role so it's not like I'm pulling this out of thin air. Your insistence on attacking me instead of answering the question has been noted, Mr. Ad Hom.

[Green Crayons]

I've noticed you've declined to comment on your steady push to lynch the obvDoc on D2.

Sorry, what? Did I miss something? Can't very well comment on something I have no knowledge about now can I? Are you saying you know who the doctor is?

Please reread 668, 671 and 674. I was/am waiting for ZEE to make his claim before I responded to you in full (which will be basically a "and so what is your response?" so feel free to ready your reply).

I am Yuzu Kurosaki.
Contrary to popular belief, I am not a doctor.
I am a Nurse.

Korlash, I've noticed you've declined to comment on your steady push to lynch the

obvDoc

obvNurse on D2.

[Green Crayons]

3) He could easily have been setting himself up, hoping that Seraphim was town and that by getting the softclaim of a role linked to Seraphim done early, that Seraphim would semi-confirm him by his death.

Right, this makes no sense. If ZEE was scum then he would know Seraphim was scum and wouldn't be hoping for jack. Care to modify your point?

[Green Crayons]

You said I attacked the obv doctor, or some similar phrasing of the word. I asked for simple clearification of what you meant.

So you didn't read 668, 671 and 674? Awesome. Because those posts explain 1. why I thought that ZEE was the doctor and 2. why it was important to bring up the fact that ZEE was the doctor in regards to limiting our lynch perspective today to Korlash or Gorrad. Read the thread you hillbilly.

So, by saying you are refusing to respond to your own post until Zee claims you are somehow linking what you said to zee's claim

No fucking way? Really? Be still my beating heart! I'm linking the fact that you and Gorrad wanted to

lynch ZEE

on D2 to the fact that

ZEE is the doctor

? Go figure. Of course I'm linking the two - it's the entire reason why I'm limiting my perspective to you two scumbags today.

the only possible connection to Zee's claim would be if you were either hinting he would claim the doctor (

something you f town couldn't know

) or that he had already claimed doctor, which was impossible as you said you were still waiting for his claim.

Hurr durr DOS you're scum too!

Now I did immediately attack you for it because you were refusing to answer your own shit via an excuse that had nothing to do with it what-so-ever. And I dare you, oh I dare you to say the excuse still flies. Please, I would love for you to validate my coaching accusation.

Sigh. The fact that I said ZEE was the doctor, asked you to respond to the fact that you were attacking the doctor on D2 and then instead of responding to this accusation you instead decided to attack the premise (your "Sorry, what? Did I miss something?

Can't very well comment on something I have no knowledge about now can I? Are you saying you know who the doctor is?

" from 685). Instead of arguing until I was blue in the face, I simply was going to wait until ZEE claimed so I could say ("Look, my premise is correct so stop fucking beating around the bush you scumbag."). OH WAIT I MUST BE COACHING HIM because I didn't want to have to battle wits with your obfuscating ignorance? Please.

Now, if you would kindly fucking answer it, maybe I can get on with my not in any way tunneling at all. Thanks and junk.

Maybe you've forgotten what you asked. "Sorry, what? Did I miss something? Can't very well comment on something I have no knowledge about now can I? Are you saying you know who the doctor is?" I've already told you what you missed (twice - in post 697 and this post as well), you could have easily figured out ZEE had a doctor role from the hints he was dropping and goddamn right I figured out who the doctor was (just like DOS, just like any other rational players who has their eyes peeled). There's nothing left to answer.

Either take the stick out of your ass or shove it in deeper. I don't care which but you have a fucking huge ass ego if you think you can accuse me of tunneling when you are attacking me for shit that hadn't even happened yet.

Go fuck yourself? Thanks. I'm asking you to answer a question which I've commented upon a few times now. Each time you find some way to not answer the question.

I think I'm going to tone the Ad Hom back donw a bit from now on. This really isn't my 'thing' but I figured I'd appease you for a post.

Cute. This doesn't negate the fact that you attacked me and not my question in your 698. Just because now you're being a full blown cocksucker doesn't demean the fact that you were attacking me earlier to avoid the question.

i mean regardless of how 'obvious' his role was to you, how is it you're attacking me for not taling about the doctor? I mean, that should get me a freaking townie of the year award.

lololol hypocrite zone, incoming! I put off openly declaring ZEE was a doc for a while because I didn't want to expose the doctor. You know who gave me shit for doing that? You. You and DOS. So take your double standards and shove them you big fat hypocrite.

How is it not pro-town to not comment on a player that is "assumed" doc/nurse effectively outing them in the process?

Please reread all of today. You are now arguing for how is it that I'm not pro-town. Thank you.

why would I out of the blue comment on my own actions on day two?

Because you were asked to do so? Town usually likes to be open with their motivation. Transparency is a good thing.

I failed to comment on it because I was unaware I was expected to analyse and comment on my own posts.

After giving me lots of shit for not explaining why we should narrow our perspective down to a Gorrad or Korlash lynch today, your lack of a comment on me finally revealing the genesis of this dichotomy was incredibly suspicious. I was noting that you did not comment because of such.

i fail to see how I was "pushing the lynch on the nurse" when at the time he was not the nurse but had the eact equal chance of being doc/nurse and scum.

Really? You think ZEE has exactly an equal chance of being doc/nurse as being scum? It's a 50/50 possibility where we could just flip a coin?

Why exactly did you find this so important as to bring it up as prematurely as you did? Why did you even ask seeing as how that statement litterally is you outing the doc to anyone who didn't already think that way? And what made Zee so "obv Doc"?

Hi. This is D3. Please reread it in full. It explains everything you just asked.

I'm confused as to why you brought it up so early, confused why you brought it up at all actually, and confused as to why you actually think it's a legitimate question at all.

Read. The. Thread. Seriously. Do it. In fact, I'm pretty sure I answered this question in this post, but please reread D3 just to make sure you catch everything.




I am a

Ghost Boy

. I am scared and being chased by Hollows.
I have a

passive ability

that I do not want to claim at the moment.
My

win condition

is when the town has eliminated all of its threats.
I think that captures the general feeling and layout of my role PM without crossing the line into quotation. Claimed since we're wanting to do a MC.

[Green Crayons]

What, so town has a Cop, 2 Spirit Enablers, a Nurse, and a Jailkeep? Not buying it.

What would you need to take out of that power role buffet in order for you to accept it as plausible?

[Green Crayons]

Korlash, because I grow weary of repeating myself, I will quote to you the previous posts that have previously been inserted into this thread that answer the questions from your 732. I will be doing the legwork so I won't give you (yet again) simple links for you to go read yourself. Because you don't until well after the fact and thus you reiterate your arguments after I just linked you to where the answer to your re-voiced question can be found. So. Don't worry. The links are there, but there's also the full quotes. Read them. No clicking involved, just press the down arrow key.

...we weren't trying to lynch "the doctor" we were lynching someone who dropped a legitimate scumtell.

Please expand on this because it's making me HIGHLY suspicious of you. ... wordswordswords

Rules for Finding Mafia
1. Congratulate the doctor on successful protection: Is scum or doctor (+20, +10)

You definately pulled the classic "Look, I'm mafia trying to look like a town!" or

the less classic "Look, I'm doc trying to not be subtle about me being the doc!"

Either way, players don't congratulate the doctor anymore. It puts a big fat target on their head (by the town if they're scum; by scum if they're the doctor). So, congrats, you just exposed yourself for one or the other.

You are a moron if you are "limiting yourself" to us off of this. What, we are scum who was told by the mod he was the doctor so we tried to lynch him for it? Is that what you are getting at?

Please expand on this because it's making me HIGHLY suspicious of you. ... wordswordswords

Rules for Finding Mafia
1. Congratulate the doctor on successful protection: Is scum or doctor (+20, +10)

You definately pulled the classic "Look, I'm mafia trying to look like a town!" or the less classic "Look, I'm doc trying to not be subtle about me being the doc!"

Either way, players don't congratulate the doctor anymore. It puts a big fat target on their head (by the town if they're scum;

by scum if they're the doctor

)

. So, congrats, you just exposed yourself for one or the other.

I gave you shit for not talking about the doctor? I find that hard to believe.... Hell I'll give you 50 to 1 odds that you can't even find a post of mine to back that up.

I think we should be lynching either Korlash or Gorrad today. Nobody else. I don't want to explain my reasons for this (so, yes, I'm asking people to trust me and my judgment) at all today - besides saying that the reasons are grounded in D2 judgment - because it would really help scum at the town's expense.

This is actually the biggest reason I like him as scum today and also a small reason Gorrad is cleared a bit in my eyes. Where is the evidence that if one of me of Gorrad flips town, the other is obv scum? Where is the evidence that if one is scum, the other is obv town? This looks like he's setting up one mislynch today with the other to follow the next day. However, I'm still willing to allow him the chance to backtrack and try to manufacture evidence, or of course point out where I missed it. Whichever...

There are a few things I would rather not talk about. The evidence behind the Gorrad/Korlash dichotomy is one of them, though it's plain to see with one's eyes open while looking at D2. I will say that Phily, our cop and confirmed innocent, thought that either Gorrad or Korlash was scummy. My reasoning does not stem from this fact, but this just shows that a confirmed innocent was also of the mind that at least one of these two were scumbags.

Refusing to explain seting up future lynches is always bad and only confirms what Bullshit it is.

This is so scummy that it hurts so much. And it's scummy because the reason for my dichotomy is so incredibly town. If you truly don't see the cause behind it, it's because you're either a really dense/blind town or you're a scumbag feigning ignorance.

... It's a nice way of calling my post scummy without saying how. You just can't find reasons for anything can you?

I actually typed it out, previewed it, looked it over, gave it a final moment or two of thought and then decided against it. I'm really confident in it and I think my suspicions of both Gorrad and Korlash are legitimate while standing on their own - dichotomy not needed. Since one of you (Korlash) has a significant chance at being scum, I'm not going to harm the town to appease scum to explain why these two are in an either/or position. The rest of the town can just accept the fact that I (and Phily, and ZEE...) find them both to be suspicious and make their judgments based off of the examples of scum play I brought up.

Pardon my French, but: FISH-SHAPED SOLID WASTE. If you honestly think you have a theory that narrows a scum down to 1 or 2 players, then there is absolutely no reason to withhold it, especially when the town is in such a good position as we are. Who cares if it “might” help the scum a little bit? I guarantee that whatever mystical "benefit" that would be given to the scum will be outweighed if your theory actually results in a scum-lynch.

When it comes down to it, mafia is a game of numbers, and not information. If the town lynches scum every day, then it simply does not matter how much information the scum has.

Like the non-madeup evidence you have that makes one of me or Gorrad scum if the other is town and town if the other is scum?

I think there are lots of things we would all love to hear...

Fine. ZEE is the doctor. Or, if he isn't, he been acting like he is the doctor - and to the outside observer it's one and the same. He dropped at least three big time hints/tells at the beginning of yesterday. It was so incredibly obvious that I can't believe you didn't catch it. In light of these doctor tells, Gorrad and Korlash pushed his lynch heavy all throughout the day. My best guess as to why ZEE isn't currently dead is because scum thought they would at least give it a day/night cycle so we wouldn't immediately go back and check out what scumbags really wanted ZEE-doc dead. The fact of the matter is, both Gorrad and Korlash were big ZEE-lynch supporters. So was Seraphim. I think it's either/or because I can't see SeraScum AND scumbuddy one AND scumbuddy two trying to lynch the doctor - it's just too incredibly obvious. But, coupled with their suspicious play style, I'm convinced at least one of them was attempting to help their buddy SeraScum get out from beneath the spotlight while lynching the doctor in the process.

You gave me shit for not revealing why I supported the Korlash/Gorrad dichotomy. I ultimately revealed it to be because ZEE was obviously a doctor. Now, you want to make the defense "Oh, I didn't want to talk about roles - especially THE DOCTOR - before they outed themselves!" legitimate for your use. But not my own. Even though it is. Exactly. What. I. Did.

Mr. Double negative learn to read.

English isn't your first language, is it? That would explain this consistent missing of the mark.

When you ask someone "How is it not this?" You're asking someone to prove that "this" is in the negative because you believe "this" to be in the positive. Therefore, "You are now arguing for how is it that I'm not pro-town" is saying that you are now arguing for someone to explain to you that I am not pro-town (to prove that "this" is negative) because you believe me to be pro-town (that "this" is in the positive).

Where was I asked to do so? The first time it was ever brought to my attention was when you attacked me for "not commenting on it" implying I had reason to do so before the attack. And technically, that attack wasn't even a question, it was an observation. So it isn't really asking me to do so either.

Noting aloud other player's observations is now qualified as an "attack?"

Lack of a comment on you? Noting i did not comment because of such? What the hell are you talking about? It's kinda hard to stay mad at you when I can only understand every other paragraph you seem to write...

After giving me lots of shit for not explaining why we should narrow our perspective down to a Gorrad or Korlash lynch today,

your lack of a comment on

me finally revealing the genesis of this dichotomy was incredibly suspicious

.

Let me try to see how much of this I grasp. You'r saying it's suspicious that I didn't comment on the thing that links me and Gorrad when I've been arguing I don't even get what you are talking about for the past page? So while I'm not understanding any of your posts, I'm also expected to comment on other things and move discussion forward while being confused? Ha ha ha... You're funny man.

It's suspicious that after all the bluster about how I didn't reveal why I thought the two of you should be the only two candidates for a lynch today, that when I finally did (ZEE was obviously a doctor role and yet you/Gorrad were voting him for the entirety of yesterday) you were completely silent on the matter. That is what makes you suspicious in this one instance. That said, I haven't caught anything from Gorrad because his slimy self is trying to sneak beneath the radar?

And to be honest with you this post of yours is the first time I can remember seeing you actually labeling me and Gorrad together on the zee thing. (The links you posted earlier not withstanding.)

So you're "theory" is that all three scum were on zee? Because we all knew he was the doctor? Wow... just wow man... keep up the good work and maybe you'll get a cookie!

Fine. ZEE is the doctor. Or, if he isn't, he been acting like he is the doctor - and to the outside observer it's one and the same. He dropped at least three big time hints/tells at the beginning of yesterday. It was so incredibly obvious that I can't believe you didn't catch it. In light of these doctor tells, Gorrad and Korlash pushed his lynch heavy all throughout the day. My best guess as to why ZEE isn't currently dead is because scum thought they would at least give it a day/night cycle so we wouldn't immediately go back and check out what scumbags really wanted ZEE-doc dead. The fact of the matter is, both Gorrad and Korlash were big ZEE-lynch supporters. So was Seraphim.

I think it's either/or because I can't see SeraScum AND scumbuddy one AND scumbuddy two trying to lynch the doctor - it's just too incredibly obvious

. But, coupled with their suspicious play style, I'm convinced at least one of them was attempting to help their buddy SeraScum get out from beneath the spotlight while lynching the doctor in the process.

You fail reading comprehension. You really, really do. And it's incredibly aggravating.

Pushing a lynch on a doctor is a bad thing to do, unless you don't kow he is the doctor for instance. In which case if there is sufficient reason to think he is scum, or as I said I felt an equal doc/scum chance, then it's not really that big a problem.

If you are scum, then you would know that he wasn't scum and, coupled with the doctor hints/tells, you would have had a pretty good incentive to see him to the gallows.

I thought it sounded fair until Gorrad claimed. It's a Cop-Doc combo, but weakened, and Maf have a redirecter to sort it out.

So you don't take issue with Korlash's second Spirit Enabler with the Cop/Nurse/Role Helper set up?

[Green Crayons]

Xtox

, feel free to ignore everything in that post right above except the very end. Thanks.

[Green Crayons]

I didn't receive any notification of anything different from Xtox's activities.

I would like Jebus, Mastin and Albert to claim since we're doing that today. I would also like their thoughts (preferably not in some gigantic post that's too large for its own good, Mastin) on things that they deem important.

I am happy with my vote. Discussing shit with Korlash is incredibly not fun because nothing gets through. I'll pick up that line of conversation again later if need be.

[Green Crayons]

...and a more complete claim from Green Crayons.

Meaning?

[Green Crayons]

... Processing ...

Oh, then no. You have enough already. (And, wow. Lots of people on tonight. Thread grew really quickly.)

[Green Crayons]

I'll try not to be so pig-headed today, Albert.

Jebus---Mizuiro, Minor C., Townie.
Albert---Karin, Minor C., ?
Green---A spirit kid, Minor C., passive ability.
X---Don, Minor C., Enabler.
Korlash---Different spirit kid, Minor C., Enabler.
ZEE---Yuzu, Minor C., Nurse.
Glados---Chad, Major C., One-shot bulletproof.

I only took out the dead players. This is accurate?

ZEE: I'm assuming the reason behind the vote is because of Mastin's minor/major dichotomy? Would people qualify Kon as a major character? I find it hard to think that scum would be given three major characters as safety claims or that they all would claim a major character if not given a safety. It just seems sloppy, either on the mod's behalf (something of which I find highly suspect) or the players (something of which I find moderately suspect).

[Green Crayons]

Albert B. Rampage and Green Crayons still need to claim.

Meh. I'm not dead-set on any course of action like I was yesterday, so it's not like it'll be a distraction to any grandiose plan of mine. My passive ability is Hunted, and the effect is that because I'm being so closely stalked by hollows, their foul reiatsu is overshadowing my own [paraphrased].

That's all it says, but I understood it immediately to mean that I was a miller in some shape or fashion.

ZEEnon
GLaDOS
Korlash
Xtoxm
Albert B. Rampage
Jebus

That's my current list, going Town ---> Scum. Jebus is at the bottom because he has flown completely beneath the radar the entire game. Like, I can't remember a single productive contribution to the game that has come from him off the top of my head.

...Zee have jumped out as possible blockers...

While I wouldn't put it past the mod to not add in a protective role simply to mess with the game's meta, that would mean he put us against scum + SK with no protection (which stinks). I'm betting we have a protection role. ZEE hasn't be countered in his claim. He's the most confirmed player, in my opinion.

[Green Crayons]

Green Crayons, just to be clear: are you claiming that being a miller (as you suspect) is a passive ability?

Yes. The "title," per se, of my passive ability is Hunted.

And you are also claiming that your passive ability is not set forth for you in a straightforward manner (i.e. you are not told exactly what your ability does)? I am just trying to be clear on this because my passive ability is very straightforward, and not really subject to interpretation.

It doesn't say "You are a miller." It does talk about confusion about my alignment if investigated by people who can sense stuff like this because of my close proximity of the hollows hunting me. It doesn't go into specifics beyond that.

When I say "I understood it immediately to mean that I was a miller in some shape or fashion," I mean when I first received the role (and up until this morning) I understood it to mean that if I was investigated I would come up guilty/scum/hollow/whatever (I'm guessing as to what specifically would have come up - but I do know it would have been incorrect). In other words, something that would - I presume - mess with Phily's investigation results. The "some shape or fashion" is me putting my current perspective on my initial interpretation, I guess, as I now have no idea how it would have affected Mr. Latent Tracker's results. So, a miller in some shape or fashion. I don't know what the normal interaction is between a miller targeted by a tracker or a watcher (if they would see "guilty" results or nothing at all if there was no targeting done).

For the record, the role

does

mention the hollows' foul reiatsu. Not spirit threads or whatever. But it also specifically talks about people who can feel stuff like this, which wasn't very specific. So. Whatever. I understood that to mean people who were sensitive to reiatsu/ghosts/hollows/the whole shebang/etc would mistake my for a hollow instead of a ghost being chased down by hollows.

Xtox

: Did the mod notify you that Albert was definitely on your side with the mason upgrade? Or is it just "you two can talk to one another" deal? I would be infinitely more comfortable with the former, for obvious reasons.

2.) If there is no such role-blocker, then this puts Korlash's failed target of ZEEnon into some question. If Albert B. Rampage believes he has a reason for why Korlash would fail with targeting ZEEnon (as he seems to suggest) I would quite like to hear it. I am already concerned that he was able to "attach" himself onto Gorrad (Godfather) but not ZEEnon (claimed Nurse).

3.) This also makes me wonder about Gorrad's theory of "negative enabling" which he failed to explain -- perhaps the scum need to use their own enabler so that the other scum can use their special powers (i.e. Redirecting, Godfather) at all.

I agree with two. I don't see how you go from two to three.

Green Crayons, why is your passive ability a miller?

...I don't know? Feel free to hit up OGML once the game is over.

That doesn't seem like a passive ability at all.

No, it fits the bill. I don't do anything but it is in effect. Hence, passive.

It seems like a role.

I'm not sure how this makes sense. My role is the Ghost Boy. My Passive Ability is Hunted. My Win Condition is Town.

[Green Crayons]

2.) If there is no such role-blocker, then this puts Korlash's failed target of ZEEnon into some question. If Albert B. Rampage believes he has a reason for why Korlash would fail with targeting ZEEnon (as he seems to suggest) I would quite like to hear it. I am already concerned that he was able to "attach" himself onto Gorrad (Godfather) but not ZEEnon (claimed Nurse).

3.) This also makes me wonder about Gorrad's theory of "negative enabling" which he failed to explain -- perhaps the scum need to use their own enabler so that the other scum can use their special powers (i.e. Redirecting, Godfather) at all.

I agree with two. I don't see how you go from two to three.

DOS, maybe you can help me out here. And not so much to help bridge the gap between two and three, but maybe help me out to see to what end this speculation is heading? It's obvious that that you're directing it towards Korlash and his claim, but I don't see what specifically about it that you're having issues if this hypothetical situation exists.

[Green Crayons]

Its impossible she's not scum. There is no WIFOM in this. Just fact.

How do you explain a lack of a kill on N1?

[Green Crayons]

I have limited access since yesterday. I've only been able to skim over the thread. I won't be able to post anything worthwhile until tomorrow or Friday.

[Green Crayons]

Managed to sneak in a quick review.

I find it odd that in 907 DOS makes a bet with Albert, in 911 she decides to claim her main account and then immediately in 919 wants us to forget the whole thing lest it become a distraction. Uh. Couldn't you have just skipped the wager/main account reveal and save us the trouble of forgetting something that can't be forgotten? Just pointing this out because it's irksome more so than anything else. Might as well as get a brightly flashing billboard reading "Ignore the Pissing Contest, Folks!"

I feel more stronger on the former, due to his passive ability claim, although he has helped lynch both scum thus far.

Yeah, you haven't really explained how 1) my passive ability claim is suspicious and 2) how it differs from the other players who have also claimed to have a passive ability to make it suspicious.

Ah, you took that really literally. Let's just say it's a figure of speech, such as:
"My character is not a big part of the storyline."
The only reason why I am explaining this for him is because I also used the same phrase earlier on.

No. It's a figure of speech that, if he intended it to mean what you're saying, he used incorrectly. It means exactly what DOS said. When you "dance around" something, that means you are a tangential figure, or circumventing the main point or being a general outlier. When you aren't dancing around something, that means you're in the thick of it, going straight to the point, etc.

vote: Jebus

. A Jebus scum would wrap things up incredibly nicely. He was also next in line after my Gorrad/Korlash dichotomy.

[Green Crayons]

Because I started the game as town. Xtox screwed over my town win. Thanks, Xtox.


There

is a four-person cyber orgy

are some issues with the QT. If the other two scumbags don't mind, I was just going to quote block the audience-approved sections of the QT.

[Green Crayons]

I wasn't joking. You turned me from a miller to a scumbag on N2. Anyways, I absolutely hate changing alignments. I got a bit bitter about it, actually. (Still love me some OGML, though).


Ugh. I'll just quote from when I entered into the QT since it's mostly just me talking to myself. Seraphim/Gorrad can quote the appropriate stuff before then. It has nothing to do with "bashing" other players - I don't give two shits about other people's internet feelings in terms of how I think they play the game. It's something completely unrelated.

Night Two

Hi. I was miller up until this point. I had no ability.

I became a full mafia spy this night. That's what I get for being "the Jibaku Spirit at the old abandoned hospital in Karakura Town." That sucked. Changing alignments. Oh well. On the upside I gained a role blocking ability at least. I was clued in that you were scum with Seraphim (now deceased) but I couldn't contact you, so I targeted ZEE the obvdoc for RB.

Then you targeted to kill me. Instead, you recruited me full time. Hi. I'm your new scum partner. Apparently we have 24 hours to make our kill choice. So, looks like we get a second shot to make a kill tonight.

I'm asking OGML via PM if my RB is locked in. If it isn't, I highly suggest we kill ZEE. My money is on him being the doctor. If my RB is locked in, I suggest killing someone else. Preferably not DOS just in case ZEE isn't the doc, but other than that cavet I'll leave the choice up to you.

I plan on going hard against you and Korlash tomorrow. I was already planning on doing so before I turned. I was planning on doing so before you recruited me - wish you didn't target me, your reaction would be more genuine. Oh well, thems the breaks. Mastin will be a secondary target I'll be throwing out there, I'll see how people feel about his attempt to divert the Seraphim bandwagon. Doubt it'll fly.


This will probably get messy. Feel free to take off the gloves.

Sounds like a plan to me re: killing ZEE. I'm /really/ glad I did target you. I was frankly very nervous about suddenly being in a mafia of one. I'm the Godfather, by the way.

I'll send in the kill now. I'll say that if the RB is locked to kill Philly, if it's not to kill ZEE.

Alright. I'll send a PM saying that if the RB is locked, don't worry about it. And that if it isn't locked, I want to switch the target to Philly.

Later guys. Looks like we have a chance now...but I'm out of the game, so bye.

Night Three

Gorrad, I'm sorry. If Xtox had just voted Korlash instead of you I would've been able to pull of voting him. I really didn't want to vote you but I didn't want to be a last minute switch if we ended up doing what we ended up doing: lynching you. Sorry, man.


I was secretly hoping you were going to try to throw down with me like Korlash did. I wouldn't have taken it personally (com'on, this is the internet), and I encouraged it with my glove-taking-off comment.

3. Korlash
4. Green Crayons
5. GLaDOS
6. Albert B. Rampage
7. Mastin replaced Giuseppe D2
9. Xtoxm replaced GhostWriter D1
11. ZEEnon
12. Jebus replaced LynchHimNotMe D1

This is the player set that I'm staring at. I am talking to myself, now, basically because I don't want to have to repeat what I'm thinking now later when I quote the QT to the thread. Oh, and to quote TDC, because I'm "...Slightly drunk, but anyway."

Anyways. I'm staring at the player list thinking that either I'm going to be one slick motherfucker or I'm going to get canned real quick. I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm might actually fall somewhere in-between, and closer to the latter rather than the former. Oh well. Let's do this shit.

Korlash has been a complete ass. He has been incredibly difficult but I think I would call him straight out town if I wasn't scum. Straight out town that's a pain in the ass. A major fucking pain in the ass. Like, I would probably be arguing with him to such an extent even if I wasn't scum. Gah! I'm sorely tempted to kill him tonight just to put myself out of some misery, but at least I'll be able to lord my Gorrad/Korlash dichotomy over him tomorrow. Even though he'll undoubtedly say something to the affect that it was crap because it targeted him. Gah! Whatever. If I don't kill him, I need to RB because if he sees I was "activated" last night by Xtox I'm screwed.

Green Crayons is me. God what a sexy player.

GLaDOS is so very obviously another player. Like, I'm 90% certain who she truly is. It was really easy to figure out if I'm right (har, that's some logic there for you). There have been a few times where she's done a couple of "new player that I don't really know" things, but "new player" in the sense that I'm new to play with her and therefore they're foreign to me. Not as in new to the site. Because there's a shit ton of people I don't know who could be new to the site or not, so that wouldn't really make sense for me to call her a newbie. Besides, what kind of newbie makes an alt? Anyways. Whatever. I don't want her alive. She doesn't like me (though, for NO GOOD REASON, dammit) and I got confirmation from OGML that I can use my RB + NK, but RB only works on active abilities. Not passive abilities. I don't want to take the chance ZEE's 50% worked on her N1. So I'll let Albert push her lynch tomorrow. We'll see where that goes. I'm sure if we get to LYLO she'll ice me for good, so. Bleck. My downfall. :fistshake:

Albert B. Rampage started off very obviously scum. Then he started becoming town, especially at the end of D1. He was super solid town D2. In fact, I was super convinced he was town in terms of how he lynched Seraphim. And then? OH SHIT I WAS RIGHT. Clued in since I became scum and I realized a lot of my opinions about alignments were correct. Sigh. Did I mention that sucked? I hate changing alignments. Anyways. Totally not bitter. (<3 OGML, seriously, I'll play any game you mod. <3) Anyways. Albert is something of a foil to me. He seems pretty scummy to DOS. I seem pretty scummy to DOS. He wanted to lynch Seraphim. I wanted to lynch Seraphim. There's a minor difference in these two perceptions/situations. Especially since N2. I'll let you figure it out. Anyways, he will prob push for a DOS lynch tomorrow with blind enthusiasm. I don't know why. I don't know why because I'm stupid/pig-headed. Or something. Take that, words back in your face! Whatever. I'm rambling. He thinks I'm town so he'll be kept alive. Let's hope his DOS lynch will go somewhere (hint: it won't. I'm fucked.).

Mastin talks. A lot. Without saying much. He's probably town in most people's eyes. I though he was town before my turn. I'll probably kill him just for shits. And giggles. Oh, and because nobody would expect it! Oh, and because he suspects me even though I fucking steam rolled sera-scum into a lynch. That irks me. Really, really does. He could probably get flak for his play, but I don't really want to bother with him and it probably wouldn't stick all that well. I'm a vengeful little crapbucket of scum, I guess? I dunno. EH? I just reread the end of D3. He might suspect DOS because of her claim. Hrm. Might have to keep him around. Oh, the pressures of decision making!

Xtoxm is town. I'm so glad I called it before I turned. Xtox is a hard cookie to crumble. Or egg to crack. Since he acts super scummy often. But that's just the lack of talking. Blargh. I went from talking him up/asking questions to just straight-up thinking - vocally - he was town. Not really much of a transition. I'm pretty irked that his ass made me scum. G.A.W.D. I won't kill him though, he seems to like me this game.

ZEEnon is the doctor. No shit. Oh, a nurse? No shit. Anyways. I won't kill him. You know, I don't even think I'll RB him. Seriously, who is going to be his RB target? Not DOS, she has 1 NK immunity. I could see him protecting her (he's weird like that, methinks), but we'll assume he won't and DOS will get auto NK immunity. Who else will he protect? Not Korlash. Maybe Albert. Maybe Mastin, now that I think about it. I feel a bit egotistical (nothing new, right, Korlash? Har!), but I think he'll protect me. Gargle. Don't know why. I don't want to mess with him, he seems to think I'm town. I need more of that.

Jebus replaced LynchHimNotMe D1. Neato. This guy hasn't said much. I don't have any sort of read on what kind of player he is. I don't think anyone else does either.




By the way, this note is totally for Korlash, Albert and DOS (the nay-sayers): At the beginning of N2, I was town. That means I kicked Sera-Scums ass. Albert was all about it, too (gotta give props for refocusing my attention D2). And you know what my strategy was in going into D3 prior to being turned scum? To narrow down the lynch to Gorrad or Korlash. I honest to goodness thought it was an amazing strategy and I was incredibly pissed when I turned mainly because I was proven to be right and yet I was basically then told to tell myself to screw off with that awesome scum-catching play. Not to mention the fact that I completely killed off potential ally Seraphim with apparently no gain to my credibility (I'm looking at you, DOS and Mastin, who had no real reason to suspect me pre-D3). Anyways. Water. Bridge. Under it. So forth.

I got a bit heated on D3 because I was incredibly aggravated that I not only put out a plan that I formed when I was town, but a plan that I now knew was fucking right. And you lot were naysaying, and it took everything to not just throw down and go "OH NO GUYS IM TOTALLY RIGHT BECAUSE..." and then get banned from playing forever more. Whatever. Personal anger problems and whatnot. Just saying that all that shit that I said that may have offended (esp. to Korlash), that was just basically hyped up bullshit. Don't take it personally.


I think I'll kill Mastin. His death might spur Albert into an uncontrollable rage of pure paranoia (Mastin suspected both Gorrad and DOS for their claims! Mastin is dead! Someone (e.g. DOS) wanted to shut them up!). You know, more so than normal. Or whatever. I think I'll block Korlash. Can't have him discover me.


This was way too long. I should really stop drinking.

Night Four

3. Korlash
4. Green Crayons
5. GLaDOS
6. Albert B. Rampage
9. Xtoxm replaced GhostWriter D1
11. ZEEnon

Meh. I think killing Mastin was a bad idea. Kind of. Looking back, he might have been good lynching fodder. But, I think I'm just screwed anyways, so really I'm just trying to see if I can get down to a LYLO situation.

Korlash is Korlash. He was quiet yesterday. ZEE suspects him for no good reason. If I don't block him tonight, then I have to assume that he has decided to "latch on" to me. In other words, no NK for him - I don't want to kill him and have the latching on end up killing me. And I haven't the slightest as to who he'll target tonight. Bleck. I think I might be okay with him sticking around until a final three situation, to be honest.

Green Crayons is me. I think he's sweating bullets. Sure as hell didn't talk that much yesterday. Going to have to change that tomorrow right out of the gates. Maybe. Meh.

DOS. Heh. Alright, I'll admit I didn't think she was DGB. I think her main reveal and the bet was total bullshit though - it's a complete confirmation cop out that brings out of the game reasons as to why she's not scum. Irksome, but whatever. I'm halfway tempted to target her for a NK, but for some reason people are stupid enough to continually push her lynch. I'll give it one more day and if I live through tomorrow I'll give it some serious thought.

Albert is going to be my fall guy tomorrow, I just know it. I'm going to have to slam him and slam him hard. I think it's totally doable, but we'll see. Glad to see he picked up the Mastin bit without any encouragement from me. I totally called it.

Xtox said that both of his targets gave no indication that they had anything. His N2 target was obvious: me. His N1 not so much... I'm thinking it was Seraphim? Whatever. Xtox is going to have to go. There's no doubt about it. Masons suck, but at least he didn't clarify that Albert was definitely of the same alignment. But Xtox is super confirmed as town, he's just gone pretty silent. Actually, I would think that he's probably the most confirmed. I don't really want to nix him, but I gotta get rid of the masons - or, at least their better half. Oh, and I'm not convinced Xtox is actually going to target DOS - my bet is that was a complete crock and he'll target ZEE.

ZEE. Oh ZEE. I like how he suspects me for my completely legitimate role. Fuck that. Whatever. I would love to block Korlash again, but I dunno. I think ZEE might target Xtox tonight. It would make sense, seeing as how Xtox is pretty damned confirmed. Anyways. I don't want to touch ZEE, he still suspects Korlash.


Hrm. What good is my RB? Albert's role is unknown but it looks like he had a latent ability to become a mason, and I can't think of anything else amazing he could be that would be tacked on to it. Korlash will target someone, but that's not really an immediate threat. Xtox will empower someone tonight, but the only person who it would affect in a bad way for me would be ZEE. The DOS thing makes no sense - with a passive ability that powerful she won't also have a latent ability. So, yeah. He'll probably boost ZEE and ZEE will probably protect Xtox.

The only question is, is will his boost make ZEE's ability immune to RBing? Bleck. Who knows. We'll find out. RBing ZEE, killing Xtox. It's final.

I didn't think DOS would have NK immunity passive ability PLUS latent ability. I also thought you would have thought that also because how fucking overpowered is that? Jesus. Anyways, I guessed you were going to boost Xtox.

And, DOS' suspicions of me were completely unfounded until D3. And then, since they were simply built off of pre-N2 suspicions, were such crap. Whatever.

[Green Crayons]

As an addendum to the above:

I think the town played an excellent game en mass - nobody really "stood out" for me. If I were to chose, I would think that Xtox was probably the strongest town player in my opinion, but his unwillingness to actually converse at length with the town hampered him to actually move the town in a positive direction (where they were going anyways, but.. regardless).

And DOS' vig choice (me) was definitely the right move, even if she wasn't going off of silly pre-N2 suspicions. Always vig the miller. Bleck.

[Green Crayons]

I'm curious as to why you wanted to kill Phily, Gorrad.

[Green Crayons]

DOS: Meh. It helped you in the end, so can't be all bad.

Xtox: Because you didn't want scum to know who you were really going to target? You could've boosted ZEE and he could have upgraded to full doc or something. That was the "logical" choice for me.

And... not really. This was the closest thing that hinted at it, but I thought it was more flavor than actual mechanics: "You are the Jibaku Spirit at the old abandoned hospital in Karakura Town.

You're not evil, but you're coming closer to turning into a hollow every day

."

[Green Crayons]

Yeah, I thought - if anything - it meant I would automatically kick into scum mode on N3 or something. But I thought I would get a warning or something on N2 like "you're getting weak and want to kill people, etc" and I would've just outed myself.

I mean, even if I knew the mechanics and that I was going to change I was still required to seek out to reach my win status (with the town) until that change actually occurred. Meh.

[Green Crayons]

I take offense at that--I always talk a lot. It sometimes has nailed scum several times. :/

I'll borrow Yos' (Shrug) for a reply. I was calling it as I saw it. You were typing a whole bunch of words, but it wasn't really getting through to the town as ideas. If you could distill your posts to a refined set of points I think your effectiveness would sharply rise. As it is, your posts come off as a lot of noise - any good points you may have get lost in the ocean of text.

[Green Crayons]

But that's not the "simple solution."

Here's the situation:
You make posts with a ton of text and little organization.
People on this site by and large don't read walls of text on a regular basis.
There is an ever increasing diminishing returns in terms of the more text-wall posts you make:the amount of people who read them, and the amount those people read.

If you don't 1. distill your posts into manageable portion sizes, 2. create a snazzy, sharp format that helps to guide people through your thoughts or 3. combine one and two, there isn't going to be a "solution" to this situation. People aren't going to read lengthy text walls just because they might contain a nugget or two. It isn't fun and isn't going to happen. The solution to this issue isn't on the "everyone else" side, it's up to you.