Mini 760 - Bleach Mafia: Karakura Town - Game Over!

[Korlash]

Vote: Korlash

for not knowing if it would be more appropriate to make a Yu Yu Hakusho reference or a Shaman King reference...

[Korlash]

You know I never thought about my favorite character... I suppose it would be Urahara's bunch... Then again I do like Karakura Golden a bit as well...

BWAHAHAHAHA!!

Ahh... good times...

From the looks of it everyone was very eager to sign up, now some people aint talking so quickly as they signed up. I know they could be busy but then again they could be keeping quiet for now, just telling town to be aware of this.

Right... becuase anyone lurking in the first two pages of a game is obvious scum! At least give the game a bit of time to start before you start trying to focus on the less active people...

FoS: Korlash. If I didn't like where my vote currently was, I would vote any self-voter. A finger will have to suffice.

Oh no! A finger! I'm so scared...

[Korlash]

If I had wanted to give my reason right now, I would have done so while voting.

So what you are saying is you have no reason.

You're right, I'd prefer pointing at them so they actually post though. No harm in it right? Its been Monday + St Pats day is tomorrow so it aint too serious about people not posting yet, just something to throw into the mix.

If someone hasn't posted yet I doubt you saying anything will make them. But sure, why not...

[Korlash]

Hey, that's a great way of putting words in someone else's mouth. Why exactly are you misrepresenting what another player said?

Ha ha ha. Actually it's a good way to get someone to say something they previously refused to. And I'm not misrepresenting anyone. Glad voted someone and failed to give any reasons for it, so as far as I or you or anyone else in this game knows, she has none to give. now if she would like to change my mind on it, she's welcome to it.

You don't think putting a spotlight on lurkers usually de-lurkerfies said problem players?

If this was page 20 I might half agree with pointing out lurkers. At least then you are able to get the active lurkers to post a little more. However at page 2 anyone not posting most likely hasn't even seen or began to read the thread and so talkign about them or two them does nothing as they aren't even here to read what you are saying. And of course anyone who is lurking while reading the thread this early in the game... well... odds are they aren't going to answer your calls anyway.

[Korlash]

Korlash: She said that she didn't want to reveal her reasoning at that time. You said that this shows that she has no reasoning. You're seriously maintaining that your charge (she has no reasoning) is not misrepresenting the facts (she declares that there are reasons, of which she does not want to reveal at this time)? Really?

Yes, until she shows she has reasons there is no proof she actually does. And so I have to assume she has none until she comes forward and corrects me. The way I see it there is hardly ever a time (especially this early) to vote someone and withhold the reasons so I am pessing her to give those reasons. If you can show me a fact that she does in fact have a reason right now then you may hav a case against me for Misrepresenting the facts. But you can't, so ha ha.

Not yet, I will if I vote though, otherwise I'd be behaving unfairly. Seems it would only lead the town if I explained why the FoS, its their duty to pick up on what you've done till things get more serious. Tis too early to build up a case ;]

What is with you people. "You would only lead the town by explaining the FoS?" No... You would help the town by not distracting us with worthless baseless FoSs and playing this stupid mindgame of Maybe I do/maybe I don't. As far as what he has actualy done if there is something worth a vote you better point it out, otherwise you better stop this shadow game or it will damage your point when you actually share it.

[Korlash]

Yup calling me stupid. The age old mentality of the three year old when caught doing something wrong. I would have rather been the pride of my home town but whatever.

[Korlash]

Korlash, sounding stupid is not the same as being stupid. But please, continue to read things into my posts which are not there.

You're arguing the literal wording of specific insults now? Be my guest. Well you call me stupid or say I sound stupid it all means the same thing in the long run.

Call it shadowy if you must but its me pointing out hes done something to earn him scum points. Rather than state what I think and get launched into some sort of redundant and stagnating debate over the event Im asking town to check out what happened and think up whatever they think is appropriate. Thus we can carry on and have that event noted.

You have pointed out nothing. we cannot note the event unless you tell us what event it is. The way you are speaking you seem to be fishing for everyone else to say omething before you get your own opinions on the books. YOU pointed out something and so YOU have to be the first to mention it. So tell us what event it is you sw so we can carry on and have it noted.

Its nothing worth a vote, its worth paying attention to. At the moment I'm writing up about the game itself, drafting out what each posts means, is it townie, is it scummy and I'm thinking his behaviour stood out the most so far, nothing more.

... You can't just say someone's behavior stands out and not tell us where or how. It obviously isn't "standing out" if you don't even find it worth pointing out specifically. It almost sounds like you are trying to make the rest of us see something so you can take credit for it later. If you see something, pont it out. If you don't, stop wasting our time.

On the topic of Korlash, I feel he has been doing a bit of word-twisting, and that in order to prove he's been twisting the words, GLaD AND Phil should explain why they don't like GC.

Exactly my point. I say what I say in the phrasing I say it in order to get results and answer unanswered questions. Some people might not like it but boohoo, it's a game of mafia deal with it.

[Korlash]

As for my own suspicions, I find that Korlash's method of trying to GLaDOS to explain her suspicions was quite questionable. All I had to do was ask that s/he explain it. I find that he instantly went to twisting his/her words to be a very odd, scummy choice to make, when the easier alternative would have been to ask.

Technically I did ask, as what I said was a question. However your problem with it seems not to be that I didn't ask, but that I phrased my question poorly. Which is your right as a fake online avatar and username to have as an opinion. Now here's my question, Glad had already responded to someone asking her for her reasons with something along the lines of "If I had wanted to say them I would have" implying she wouldn't answer that question. So me asking it again would have most likely ended in the same thing. You can try to kid yourself that maybe it wouldn't have ended the same way, but I assure you... it would have. Now you can either deal with that or try to make it into something. I really don't care either which way. But if you do bring it up again don't simply "allude" to it with "vague" comments that waste my and the other's time. Actually make it a comment worth responding to. 'Kay?

I'll read the rest of the stuff either tomorrow or the next day when I have time...

[Korlash]

Ah man... It's one of these games... where everyone talks... *rolls eyes*

Lets see... I don't really feel connected to any of the latest gossip. I would like to throw my hat into the ring of asking Albert to clearify his supicions simply so theres no confusion anywhere. And... uh... no that's about it...

Gorrad... Come back! Don't leave me with these people... >.> <.<

[Korlash]

Yay Gorrad I was afraid you would miss the train!

So my interet problems seem to have resurfaced but hey, whatever. i'll deal with it.

When I sign up to play a 12-player game, I expect to see twelve players. This game has fallen far short of that expectation. Even some people who have been posting I would not call "players" for their lack of contribution to the game.

Then you are on the wrong site sister. I don't think I've been in a game yet that hasn't required at least 1 replacement at some point and time.... Well maybe I have and I just don't remember. Although I love to see as many posts from players about the lack of contribution from others as those posts themselves are so awesome in the "contribution" department.

I have earned my title.

Yes, that is kinda the point with titles. Last I checked they weren't some bingo night door prize given out to the first chick to get 5 straight red dots.

Although I really love how you think being you excuses you from explaining and clearifying things.

I've decided to get back into the game. I will take no questions for the moment.

What a perfect way to get back into a game.

So you're saying that there were no suspicions you had about Phily prior to his vote on you?

No.

First off, does anyone else think Erg0Green would be a great name for some industrial cleaning solution?

Also would you mind pointing out what and where these suspicions are for us deaf and dumb people like me that need constant reassurance? Or do you still need time to find something that sounds remotely good enough to pass off? I would think seven pages isn't that hard to manufacture a sutable answer.

It's not a contradiction. I'm still trying to decide whether or not Phily is scum. I won't vote for Green Crayons until I do.

... Why should Phily have anything to do with a vote on Green? Are you incapable of voting one player and still questionin another? Are you a person who believes that once you vote you aren't allowed to change it later? If you have reason to vote green, do it while you wait so you might be able to have something come of whatever it is you suspect green of.

And unless I'm mistaken your last... 4-5 posts deal primarily with green, what the hell are you waiing on Philly for? Did you ask him a question 2 pages ago and just forgot to bring it up again or do you think Philly will just come out and say something to catch your fancy? Saying you are trying to figure out if so and so is scum while not actually doing anything along the lines of, you know, trying to figure out if he is scum, is bull shit. have you even commented on anything Philly has posted? have you asked him a single question? Have you responded to anything about him at all? Ever? And yet somehow you vote on Green is influenced by this so called non-existant scum hunt process you aren't doing with Philly?

Yeah ok,

Unvote:, Vote: zwetschenwasser

You can't be trying to decide if Phily is or is not scum without interacting with him in some way.

[Korlash]

So in other words you're a worthless player who is actively lurking? Perfect! Love my vote.

[Korlash]

The LAL theory is based on more then the LALAL theory. Both however are stupid. There are specific situations where a lie can be acceptable however those times do not superimpose the times when it's not alirght to lie. The saying should be Lynch all liars who have lied for reasons not in the best interest of the town. the LAL principal is correct a good portion of the time in theory. However, this new lynch all people who cry LAL is bogus. LAL is a principle believed by a lot of people, or at least it seems like there are people who believe it. By lynching anyone who follows LAL you damn all these people before you ever recieve their role.

I agree scum probably use LAL a lot. But in those cases you need to see if the LAL is correct or if the lie was actually for the benefit of the town.

Now more on topic, did he ever say "LAL" or did he simply say "Lying is never good"? Becuase there is a difference, a very big one actually.

[Korlash]

No. I agree with GC that what Guiseppe did (the lying to look less suspicious) was bad. Plus Guiseppe then goes on to say LAL (which, I suppose, means he should be voting for himself). I don't see GC as saying to LAL, just that Guiseppe's lie was more scummy than town, which I can agree with.

He lied to look less supsicious? I thought he lied about his random vote being random, that hardly seems to qualify as trying to be less supicious.

Where did he ever say people should be lynched for lying?

And just becuase I'm apparently lost, what did Guise lie about exactly?

Please provide a counterexample so we can tear it to shreds.

How about when someone claims cop then says "I was just lying to draw the night kill, I'm actually vanilla." I believe the concept of LAL exists in that situation and saying that player should be lynched for his lie is in no way scummy.

[Korlash]

... It falls nothing near it in this case. You're pushing the case lynch all people who think everyone should be lynched for lying. Guise never said anyone should be lynched for a lie and thusly your entire agrument against him is completly baseless and pusing obviouly false facts.

And in the case of fakeclaim cop, lie, claim vanilla. I believe that player should be lynched simply becuase of that lie. Do you disagree with it?

Oh, and sidenote revival: My favorite character is Aisen.

He's alright I suppose... I kinda like Tousen over him though.

[Korlash]

I don't understand this. Like, literally, I do not follow what you are trying to say. Can you rephrase please?

You expet me to understand my own posts? Jeeze, now I have to do everything...

Anyways, I presented a hypothetical situation in which an unnamed player fakeclaimed cop. He then admitted he was lying and was actually vanilla. My conclusion is that the argument "LAL" works in this situation. The player lied, and his lie is definitly worth dying over. you have been saying LAL doesn't work, but it does "in specific situations". Personally I wouldn't call it "LAL" but I think "LAL" is well known enough that if only used in these specific situations would be acceptable as it would save time.

I said LALAL because it was funny to have it briefed to that. I do believe basically in LALAL, I wasn't lying, but I don't limit it to those who only believe LAL- he's using a false absolute, the essence of why I dislike LAL, and that puts him close enough to it for him to arouse my ire.

Not really no. The statement "lying is never good" is perfectly acceptable. There are lots of people who believe this. Granted it is up to players like you and I to set them straight but it hardly qualifies them as scummy. Also, as he never said anything along the lines of "liars should be lynched" or even "Lying is scummy" it's not even close enough to pick up your dry cleaning let alone release your wrath. This whole thing almost seems like a meaningless excuse to try and back up a worthless vote.

I am not moved by the “lynch all people who say lynch all liars” discussion. The only person we seem to need clarification from is Giuseppe. Right now the discussion is focusing too much on theory and too little on scumhunting.

This post was so chalk full of scum hunting I'm almost ashamed I'm wasting my post on thoretical disscussion to try and prove Gorrad is BSing a case on Guise. Wait a minute... No... I'm the one scum hunting here and you're the one cluttering the thread with worthless posts about how no one else is doing their job! tell you what, next time just take the nap and don't waste my time or I might be tempted to throw you in a fire.

[Korlash]

Here's our key difference in phrasing, Korlash. LAL is lynch ALL liers. It's not lynch those who lie under specific circumstances in which lying is inexcusable. It's the using of a false absolute in order to justify votes that upsets me.

Which is why I am saying it should only be used in specific situations. If so, it fails to be LAL and becomes Lych all liars who lie in specific situations where it is fine to lynch them for that lie.

As for your second paragraph, I disagree with you. I don't find it acceptable. You do? Whoop dee doo. We'll have a disagreement party and have crumpets and rave music. Do you have a /problem/ with me not finding it acceptable?

Yeah I do as you are pushing a vote along with not finding it acceptable. If someone where to say "Self voting is scummy" I would disagree with it and do everything in my power to change it but it's hardly grounds for a vote.

And before you get started, I don't really care about one vote on Guise or this reason. You see something you don't like, you vote him, big deal. What I have a prolem with is how you voted him by pushing a falseness and when called out on it you seem to have backtracked and even doing that have yet to justify your vote.

[Korlash]

The Zwet wagon looks like a scum excuse to lynch a townie based on playstyle.

You can only make that claim if you see any evidence a player is town. And if his playstyle is playing the game without actually ding anything then it's his fault and I'm fine to see a worthless player lynched day 1. Better now then wait until endgame when he screws us over.

why, do you know he is town?

[Korlash]

Oh? You don't like the manner? Should we PM the attacks? mail them? I mean I think typing them in posts and submitting them on a forum is perfectly acceptable. Or do you mean the actual attacks we're using? I couldn't tell what with the failure to actually say what you dislike. I mean your sweeping generalization is so full of fact and support I should I known right away what is was I should be looking at!

Unneeded sarcasm aside, would you care to say what about the attacks you dislike or are you having trouble actually finding anything worthwhile to bring up? See I don't really like being attacked from the sidelines by a benched player is all. Not trying to be a jerk on purpose or anything of that sort, but if you're going to make statements like that I'm going to need to see them backed up with a bit more then "The manner is wrong"...

[Korlash]

So philly is looking town based on your keen sense of sit there and do nothingness while GC is falling under the radar because worthless paps like you sit there and do nothing. You're vote is worthless alone, you need to make him post. Make him respond to stuff. Make him answer questions. Voting to look like you are doing something is a poor attempt to appease the arguments of you not doing anything.

[Korlash]

I'm with ^ Right now I need sleep but I did read up the new stuff. Nothing seems pressing for my input too much so I'll save off anything huge...

Green, post 73 wasn't a contradiction, and I've explained why about three times.

You mean when you called a guy scum but wanted someone else to explain your reasonsing for it? That's probably not right, you mean the post where you called one guy scum but were more interested in someone else? That's sort of a contradiction.

[Korlash]

So

Vote: Zeenon

for the doctor thing... yeah...

As far as GC goes I have a stupid suspicion he is scum based off of my trademark craplogic but I'm not pushing it simply becuase I don't think what he did really qualifies. I'm only saying it becuase I had orriginally planned on voting him for this reason yesterday but never did and... yeah... >.>

Let's see other things... Oh right I'm freaking glad that stupid hallow is finally dead! Yay me! <3 Chadokun!

Other things other things... right something random... Gorrad are you feeling it? You know, it? Yes? no? Ok...

Other then that my next two days are hectic so I might or might not post...

<.< What a worthless post by me...

[Korlash]

Right and his lynch was such a bad thing...

And SK is scum. So learn the word before you try any of this self gratifying shit on the rest of us. you spent all of yesterday saying "Zwet doesn't look like scum" and

nothing

else with no real back up of that statement. You can say you were right after you've actually contributed something to this game!

... *cough* Sorry... I'm a little testy when I'm forced to wake up this early...

[Korlash]

So why are people voting ABR? I must have been gone when they were passing out the 'Vote ABR!' bumperstickers...

[Korlash]

I agree with the doctor thing being a major scum tell. I thought it was so well established of a tell that nobody actually did it any more, to be honest. Just curious, though: Any other reasons for the vote?

Not really no. But it seemed like a good enough reason to vote at the time. i'll get back to you maybe at the end of this post if anythings change during the read up of new stuff though.

Please expand on this because it's making me HIGHLY suspicious of you.

You should try reading some of the more popular wiki entries.

OMGUS votes are definitely a turn on to me. especially the blatantly obvious ones.

Same as before...

So you are saying that I am not allowed to congratulate the doctor on their correct prediction?

Sure but you will be auto bandwagoned for it

So you are saying that it is a BAD thing that nobody was killed?

No, only a scum tell to congradulate the doctor. Especially when you think that RB, Jailkeepers, No kills, and any other type of special ingame role could have equally been responcible for the lack of a dead person.

So you are saying that you would rather see somebody DEAD?

I'm taking this as a rhetorical question and not just some stupid attempt to throw false attacks back towards your attacker.

So you are saying that when nobody is killed, that it can't possibly be a doctor save?

Did anyone ever say that? I'll give you yet another benefit of the doubt here and not accuse you of that thing I said before.

*Bold is mine

Medical Student: "What do you diagnose this patient with, DR. ZEE?"
DR. ZEE: "I think Green Crayons has come down with a bad case of tunneling.
For some reason his eyes can't see Albert B. Rampage doing the same thing.
This must be treated at once."

Kinda hard to base a tunneling accusation off one sentence... But yes I suppose you could make the same statement in regards to Albert. The question becomes does GC want to see more from him or does he wish to see more from Glad for other reasons?

False dilemma. I suggest that ZEEnon neither confirm nor deny whether he is a Doctor.

Bullshit. There is no false dilemma in a proven fact. Anyone who does what he did is painted as scum to town and as doc to scum. Whether he is scum or doc or neither doesn't matter. he has been branded with the above average chance of being those roles to ther respective alignments. To every rule there will always be an exception, but those are, quite literally, the exceptions and not the norm.

I don't care what YOU or anybody else say players don't do,
I do what I want to do and that is final. Understood? Good. Continuing on..

Yes, and you will accept the consequences for those actions as well. In your case it is a building up of a wagon and based on my experience with this type of attitude it will definitly grow even bigger. Realize that by you excersizing yoru right to do whatever you want you gant us the honor of doing the same, which is voting you.

Why are you role fishing? PERHAPS i'm NOT the doctor, but i'm just congratulating the doctor.
Are you saying that is not acceptable town behavior?

That is exactly what we are saying. Sortof...

This somehow makes it seem like you know that GLaDOS was last night's target.

Your "I would have expected Glad to die" comment fits thhis statement better then the one you quoted GC as saying.

Also, since there was a serial killer, it is more likely that there is only two mafia, but i'm not sure.

case in point death note mafia: 4 mafia, 1 SK, 1 Jester. In my experience most minis have 3 mafia regardless of third party roles. In a mini the Sk's most important goal is to eliminate the mafia, so having an SK present doesn't effect the number of mafia.

Extreme WIFOMing, closing other options. Take into account that ZEEnon's been inactive for the first day and was then eager to make up for that. Hes most likely town in my opinion, just tried to look it too much in the beginning unfortunately.

It is not WIFOM. It is logic based on a sound principal created a long ass time ago and which has sense become somewhat of a universal truth. And are you seriously making the case "he lurked during day 1 and so his scum tell is more likely that from a townie"?

I wonderful example of leeching, its scummy but not vote worthy. I'm currently considering a Korlash/Gorrad buddiness at the moment if anyones curious. Its worth consideration at least though at the moment its just a hunch. I'll be rereading to see if this is the case.

based off my purely random statement and Gorrad tacking onto a wagon that has so far been pushed entirely by GC(who wasn't actually on the wagon anyways)? you're talking out of your ass, only I am allowed to do that.

Just because it worked so well before:

You say that congratulating the doctor is a definite scum sign?

I don't know about him but I believe most of the accusations have clearly stated it could also be a sign of a doctor.

Well I say that answering other people's questions for them is a scum sign.

Hmm... depends on the questions I suppose. Such as this for instance, I'm answering questions asked of another but they are linked very strongly to my vote. in this situation I would argue I have equal right to answer these questions. And as what Ser did is what I am doing I suppose this explanation might apply to him as well. If I can pull one of your weak ass rhetorical questions, are you saying it is pro-town to ignore things not directed at you even if you have important comments on the matter?

Have you ever stopped to think that, oh I don't know.. not everyone thinks the same way you do, perhaps?

have you Mr. "I don't care what you or anyon else thinks" I have a strongurg to call you a hypocritical asshole but I'll refrain because I'm not that sort of player... XD

*sigh* Since it seems that in this game we are going to
vote people solely using the wikipedia definition of scum, I am obliged to do this:
FOS: Gorrad
Scum naturally like to hop on a growing bandwagon early on, while at the same time FOSing their partner.
I can see a connection between these two. This is the second pairing i've put Gorrad with,
so don't be surprised if my vote suddenly hops on to him.

Did you ever stop to think maybe some people actually felt this way regardless of what the wiki said? Did you ever think people agreed with the wiki not becuase it was the wiki, but because what it says sounds right to them? Also isn't it a little hypocritical to fos someone for voting based on what they believe is a scum action and then make a statement such as "Scum naturally will blank"? lastly, don't base a vote on unproven pairings with alive players. What if the people you have paired Gorrad with are both town? (Obviusly one of us is) What a waste of a vote and/or lynch should it happen. What if Gorrad is town and one of the two you paired him with is scum?

&& YOU. How do you know that i'm either of the above?

Did GC ever say he "knew"? I was fairly sure he only ever said what you did suggested you were one or the other. Perhaps you could point this out to me.

Sorry for the long post... had to catch up...

@ GC: Well my orriginal vote was simply based on the dictonomy and as it was the begining of the day and the first vote on him I feel that reasoning was more then enough to justify the vote. As for now I still like the vote where it is simply becuase of what it has spawned. Zee's serious of Strawishy 'counter attacks' and his general attitude have not left me with the feeling the dictonomy is wrong, although I won't say it has effected the option of him being Scum or Doc too much. And before he tries one of his bogus attacks on me I am not fishing for his claim because I don't really care about it right now.

[Korlash]

EBWOP: It is not a prvoen fact... <.< Merely something I feel has been shown to have truth to it and be a valid reason to suspect someone. i appologize for calling it such...

[Korlash]

Korlash, have I mentioned how much I enjoy playing mafia with you?

... Was this sarcasm cause I can't tell ;_; But I want you to know I appreciate it either way!

Not really understanding this. I seem to recall a good number of personal insults flying around in this game, but none of those made you "pretty bloody set" or even caused you to vote, that I recall. Please explain ZEEnon's insult to Korlash is different from other insults in the game (perhaps even my own "this is how stupid you sound," if you consider that an insult).

I agree here. I myself insulted Zee in my own post so him throwing one back, especially seeing as how that was the best he could do, doesn't really seem all that bad. I do however think his last post only goes to strengthen his "attitude towards the attack" but as it was 1 in the morning I'm fine giving him a mulligan on it later on.

but I just want to say they had their reasons when they gave you the title 'Krap Logick' .

Yeah. It was the fact I used stupid sounding logic and found scum with it. The scum were so pissed I was that fucking good they gave me this title to try and halt any future awesomeness from me. But it has backfired and has actually given me increased strength and stamina! I can spew crap logic left and right now and still have time to hammer scum before breakfast!

[Korlash]

But didnt Kor only start to contradict Gorrad when I mentioned how I thought the two were buddies earlier? I think it was just a poorly timed turn on a buddy since they were getting along fine till things fell on Gorrad (to the best of my recollection)

"Start to contradict"? Oh buy you are about this close to a smack bottom. For one I can't contradict another player, that's almost physically impossible. And two if you are going to start aguing I "turned on my buddy" you damn sure better show some buddy interactions first. I don't mind people sayin thy think a Gor/Kor partnership is possible (although I would like a little clearance as to why at some point you lazy bastards XD) but if you're going to start proclaiming YOU are responcible for me doing anything you need to back that up right now or shut up. There isn't a single person on this site that can make me do anything.

I haven't really been following this Sera thing so all these new posts don't seem to say anything to me. But I'll try reading that again.

[Korlash]

Should be "by the way" I'm too tired right now... ><

[Korlash]

I trust Korlash...

A threat like that isn't going to work GC. And I am engaged and i'm not below the activity level either.

You're pretty much an active lurker... I mean the whole "I'm not below the activity level" kinda suggests you're watching it and making sure you stay above it just for the purposes of being able to argue you are above it. GC has pretty much already said anything I would have felt to say though...

[Korlash]

I personaly think the "mafia" would be hollows... There are three named hollows I can think of right off the bat that would fit in our flavor situation.

As far as for safeclaims, there aren't really as many as you think. There are only 7 or so names taht make any sense being in this set-up, and I would assume most if not all to be actual roles. Combine it with the two or so minor names that 'might' fit and you get a town pool of 9 with 8 likely being in the game. Of course this overlooks scum safeclaims given to them. If they were actually given names then all this is moot. I think it's best not to actually link any name to possible alignment ATM though. but if and when it comes to massclaim/individual claims in later episodes then we can start building them one at a time.

And of course there is always the fact I could be completely wrong. I mean I wasn't exactly Mr. Mafioso extrodinare in Death Note...

[Korlash]

Hmm I must really be lost. What did I do to get paired with sera again? Becuase he voted the same person I did?

1: Arrancar. They're the only hollows who are actually in a team. Really, flavor-wise, can you think of any three hollows that work together, besides Arrancar? As to what they're called, no clue. I know, it's many arcs early (Arrancar are in the Arrancar arc, and in the Anime, that's not 'til ~110; this is in the first arc, apparently), but it makes sense.
2: Sosuke Aizen, Ichimaru Gin, and the third traitor captain. They're the big bad guys, after all, in Bleach.

Neither of these make any sense as this is Karakura town. Arc and captains haven't even entered the story yet.

3: CRAZY WILD THEORY: Ichigo Kurosaki and Uryu Ishida. I would be down-right shocked if this were the case, but it is a possibility.

It's possible... But I don't think it makes a lot of sense. However I suppose a mod can seriously F' up flavor sometimes so I won't discount it...

And then there's always the three-hollow pair people seem to think, even though our serial killer was just a plain ol' hollow.

... Yes one scum flipping hollow totally makes is so unlikely the other scum are hollows as well... /sarcasm

The entire point of the Ichigo/Ishida fued was to kill hollows... The most likely mafia team would be Numb Chandelier, Bulbous G, and the Menos Grande. I believe those are the three main hollows that appeared around the time the two did their battle royal.

Hmmm... I don't think there should be nymajor reprocussions from discussing this...

[Korlash]

I don't think you're pared with Seraphim. My Gorrad/Korlash (either/or, not both) scum dichotomy theory is completely independent of Seraphim's guilt.

Well obviously I wasnt talking to you then...

[Korlash]

I'm still not getting why people have come to the conclussion of a me/gorrad deal. Be it partners or an either/or thing. From my perspective it seems like a few key players keep trying to play that card left and right as if trying to either set up future lynches or start an early misdirect.

[Korlash]

Recognizes the scene from the actual Manga/Anime, but mentioning Chad Sato could’ve been his way of hinting at something we do not know about. Again, just me jumping out at the shadows…

I don't know what you're going on about with the train thing but you're on to me here. I do know something but it's definitly not what you are thinking. Unless you are thinking strange things...

i'm only saying this because it actually dosn't matter if the scum know I know something or not at this point, and as people are finding me suspicious I think my claim will be somewhere in the future so... yeah... Figured I'd give you props for finding this now...

[Korlash]

You probably should not have answered that, Korlash...

I'll answer everything in your last post with this... I am not stupid. I would not have said what I said unless I felt either it helped the town or it in no way hinders it at all. I have not claimed or ever hinted at a power role, merely at knowing something you don't.

you may feel differently, but nothing I have said or done should come back to hurt the town or haunt me in any way...

[Korlash]

I'm not too keen on your desire to discuss roles at this point in time. If anything, the current game status (no town dead, SK removed from the scene) looks like role discussion/speculation is actually where we don't want to go. As far as I can tell, we're currently ahead. Speculation at this point seems like a good way to shoot ourselves in the foot.

Technically we're behind. Eliminating the SK day 1 is not actually a good thing. Early on the SK *should* be full blown against the mafia, meaning we took out one of the roles that could have seriously wounded the mafia. because of that the mafia can now breath a sigh of relief and focus simply on the town. Add to this the fact we eliminated a scum but did not decrease the scum majority goal means we have now limited ourselves to one less day that we could have had.

All things considered the SK's death is good, but in the long run we are behind. Not by much as no town is dead either, but it is still technically behind. Still i don't think we are at the total discussion of power roles stage. i think it's fine to get into a little set-up speculation though... But nothing bordering on power role distribution.

[Korlash]

Korlash: I'm willing to bet wasser would have hit town instead of scum. His D1 lynch (when the odds for not being lynched were with him) should cause hesitation in anyone's confidence as to his ability to be able to perform against the odds (his search in finding mafia admist the other 11 players). I'm firm in my opinion we're much better off with wasser the SK dead on D1.

We can agree to disagree then. I will say I would rather see a dead Mafia then a Dead SK right now but I would also rather see a Dead Sk then a Dead Town. So I suppose the situation could be worse.

[Korlash]

Has Zee been active on the site since then? I don't like saying somene is obviously lurking when it could be they had RL issues...

[Korlash]

i don't disbelieve the option that Kon is in the game that's for sure... but...

I don't necessarily believe his claim either. Why does hiding only proect you from kills? And if it protects you from all targets, why not say that? It seems like an overlooked fact in a fakeclaim story...

[Korlash]

Uh... yeah the whole "stuff goes through to the guy I am hiding behind" doesn't really make sense. It sounds like a back up to any cops that might investigate him.

And the doctor loop hole Glad pointed out is also serious evidence against the claim, but I've seen unforseen things like that happen in games before as well. (one of which I modded... Stupid unkillable cop role...)

I'm uh, pretty much ready to hammer him now... But I'm always for hearing out more on claims, especially in theme games. So I'll wait if anyone has a problem with it, but uh... not for long...

[Korlash]

When you say 'us', are you referring to you and your mafia buddies, or the town in general?
Korlash, why do you feel the need to reply to posts not directed to you?
You continously answer points I make regarding Green Crayons in post 302.
Unless you feel obligated as his partner to do so, please refrain from doing this.
Again in post 309 Korlash answers a question directed to Gorrad.
Is this how you usually play Korlash, acting as every player's secretary?

... I was refering to anyone who wanted to vote you based on what you did. Alignment had nothing to do with it. Nice play though with the mafia buddies, that doesn't make you look weak and desperate at all.

I feel the need to reply to anything and everything I think is important that I coment on. A good player does not ignore something just because it is directed at someone else. Why do you have a problem with me contributing every possible thing I can to this game? Do you not value maximum input? Are you against gaining as much as possible from every lead and all discussion?

I can make comments on whatever I want.

Make me... Do it... Try and stop me... you cant... so shut up.

It wasnt a question you moron it was a request for clearification. And as the clearification had to do with ME I had as much right as gorrad to answer it. Stop whining about sad pathetic things and play the game.

... I like to think I'm everyone's boss... And you're fired...

Two of these are DEFINITELY mafia. Possibly three.
Not sure which ones, but I will hunt until I find out.
As of now the two I suspect that most are Seraphim and Gorrad.
I'm almost dead set on Seriphim to be honest.
The only thing holding me back is that highly believeable roleclaim.
I think that his roleclaim could have something to do with why there wasn't a night kill.
Perhaps he was targetted, but he was 'hiding' therefore he was not killed.

"I'm dead set on this guy but I'm unvoting him" right... that's playing both sides of the field there buddy... what can't pick between bussing him and defending him right now? Oh snap, look I've decended to your level... bad Korlash...

And what exactly are the odds he was the one choosen for the kill?

I tend to use loaded questions a lot. I find that I get reactions that are far more readable.
Non-Loaded Question: Why did you vote Player A?
Loaded Question: Did you vote Player A to protect Player B, or did you vote Player A to get a reaction from Player C?
I think that my questions get reactions that benefit us in the long run.

Loaded questions aren't very good becuase they can trip up town just as easily as they can trip up scum. A loaded question is more likely to backfire and end in a mislynch or a bad read on a town simply becuase there are more town then scum and probability wise if you ask 5 loaded questions, 3 are probably directed at town. A loaded question is arguably a misrepresentation of the facts.

[Korlash]

"highly believable" my ass. There have been a lot of discrepencies brought to light. His claim might be believable to someone, but theres no way anyone can call it "highly believable," at least not until Sera were to clear things up.

[Korlash]

I have to agree with GC. It doesn't make sense that any actions are transfered at all. All targets should auto fail on a hider.

[Korlash]

EBWOP: Kon could also be a safeclaim given to the scum. In order to be a true theme game the mod should give the scum a few believable roles to fakeclaim. Kon definitly fits the description of a believeable role while also being minor enough to not be a main part of the set-up. You can't just automatically believe it becuase you think Kon is in the game, that doesn't necessarily prove anything.

Also this whole linking last night's no kill to his claim is stupid. What the hell are you going to say when the doc claims? Oh he had nothing to do with it, lynch the liar? Same with a Roleblocker? Same with a Jailkeep?

[Korlash]

[quoe="Mestin"]And how often are scum given safe claims, Korlash? If it's done often, you can surely name a few for me to read up on. If it's not, then it means that--while possible--it is highly doubtful. [/quote]

It's my belief any theme game centered around a movie or show or some sort of theme like that should come with safeclaims because it's too easy to break the set-up without them. Deathnote had them, Doctor Who had it for the SK not sure about whether the mafia got them or not but that's a large game so it's a bit different. I think fireemblem had them but I wasnt scum so I can't remember, same with clerks... although in clerks the SK was given a townie sounding role so I doubt he needed a safeclaim, not sure about the scum.

Given as how this specific theme is of an anime, the fact it's a mini, and the fact it's centered around a specific time in the anime, I would think it has safeclaims. Although that's more of a mod thing then experience thing.

In addition to that, this is a themed game--one of the REASONS a game is themed is to put twists on classic roles. I do it, with games I've typed up, making some interesting results. I imagine most good mods do it. They put some sort of spin on the role that hasn't been there before.

That is true I suppose. But it's still a pretty weird twist to have some actions pass on and to just have kills fail. I can personally see flavor and mechanic reasons to have either one on their own, but not both. Either all targets shoudl fail because Kon is "inhabiting" another's body or A.k.a. hiding. Or all targets, including kills, should pass to his target.

I look at it like a flavor situation. Let's say you swollow Kon. (that doesn't sound very good...) So you're a spirit yada yada you'e not important anymore. So someone tries to kill Kon's little stuffed animal thing. Nothing happens. Makes sense. But tell me how a cop picking up the stuffed animal to investigate it somehow agically investigates your body now? That is where the logical sense falls apart.

Now of course lets assume that kon inhabiting your body means anyone investigating him thinks he is you, or you are he, or your body is his, or whatever. So they end up investigating you instead. That makes sense. But tell me why someone trying to kill Kon won't do the same thing?

It just doesnt make any sense that half the targets just fail and half pass on to the person he is hiding behind.

[Korlash]

Sure but Bullet proof is a simple role. You don't make up a complex illogical role without just cause to do so. If his claim was just "simple hider" then your point would make sense.

Sera wants me to believe the mod saw it necessary to make changes to the orriginal hider role. He doesn't die for hiding behind scum, why? There has to either be a balance or a theme reason. Same with passing along investigations and such to his target. There has to be a reason.

[Korlash]

That type of loop could actually be mod error and while it is definite reason why his claim should be looked into harder and not beieved so readily by as many people as it is, it alone isn't exactly substancial. Unless of course there is reason to believe Oh God isn't that careless... if that's the case

[Korlash]

No one is confirmed off a claim of their own without any (in most situations mutliple) outside confirmations. You might find his claim believeable but that in no way confirms anything.

Theres a little bit of logic there but tons of speculation. I've not played at scum much but I've never seen a pm (after all roles revealed) stating possible roles scum can claim that others dont have. Rather this gives away roles that are in the game (narrowing down character list) thus I dont agree.

How many theme games have you been in based off something like a show or a movie or something with a main pool of characters?

[Korlash]

I gave like 4 examples already...

And giving a safeclaim is not "helping scum" it is keeping the game fair. In a theme game like this there is a "town pool" of players. Ichigo, Kon, Chad, etc... And it's limited. There is not 150 possible roles to claim. Becuase of this should the town massclaim the scum would be screwed. They would have to pick some inane character and hope that it's not only not in the game already, but believeable enough to be a real role.

This is Bleach mafia, there is a greater then average chance of safeclaims having been given to the scum. To say otherwise is just ignorant bliss.

[Korlash]

I've not seen a single link to something real. Thats kinda what Im getting at when I say evidence...

I only link if it's important to a case of mine. This is no more then me backing up what's happened in the past so I'm not respincible for telling you where to look. Either try the search button or disbelieve me I really don't care. In the long run it doesn't really matter if you do or don't believe safeclaims exist. If and when we get into a massclaim either I'll be proven wrong or you will.

A viable option but due to Seraphim's specific description I choose to buy it. Why are you so sure hes lying?

I'm not sure he's lying, I just don't buy the claim right now. The mechanics seems off, it doesn't fit flavor(Which doesnt disprove it, just doesnt sit in his favor either), his original claim of it left a lot out which he then used another two or so posts to fill out the holes, and I'm still trying to figure out if my role makes what he claimed less or more likely.

The question should be why do you believe him so readily? The only reasons I can see are 1) no counterclaim which really doesn't prove anything, 2) the fact you believe Kon is in the game, which, I suppose is the same thing. And 3) the fact that a hider fits Kon's character, which also doesn't prove anything because no one but an idiot owuld fakeclaim if what he says didn't match up.

So I guess both of us are just dwelling on circumstantial evidence. The difference is I'm being cautious in this uncertainty, and you're letting him walk away clean.

Last time I checked there are dozens of characters, captains, hollows, rogues, Menos Grande even >_> Third parties may be in effect too, like the Boundo. Seraphim being Kon is believable, one of the other players seems convinced of this due to their role. His latest posts make the role clear yet you choose to believe hes using a safety net claim. Risk removed, easy for scum to fake.

Captains aren't going to be in this game, hollows are the bad guys, seeing as how I have no idea what a rogue is it obviously hasn't entered the story yet and the MG is likely the GF. I don't know what the Boundo is so that shouldn't be in either.

All your examples are of roles no one can possibly claim and live to tell about it so thank you for proving my point. And the fact his last post made it clear instead of his FIRST post doing it only helps further suggest it's a fakeclaim he is making up or fixing as he goes.

IF we're to narrow down possible characters, Id say theyre residents of our village. Urahara, the kids, Ichigo and Uruyu are obv, Orihime, Chad, Rukia even. Kon is just another one of these people. That would narrow down scum to 3 funnily enough. (Though this is speculation)

I doubt Urahara is in it simply because he took a more sideline approach in this battle. The kids might be in it but I doubt it. I do agree with the other five though. I don't doubt that Kon has potential to be in this game either, what I doubt is the role he claimed along with how he claimed it.

I do however like the point someone brought up recently about how scum might go after the person they failed to kill the previous night. I myself have never done that as scum, but it does make sense. I do want to relook at this wagon when I have a chance and see if this possibility could be true as well.

[Korlash]

Do Mod Souls even have spirit threads?

[Korlash]

You cant even name the specific games? =____= How people react to a claim can be scumtells too so I REALLY dont mind indulging in this topic for a while. Something tells me theres lurking afoot though..

I've already named 4 freaking games. Ignoring my posts and blaming me for something really pisses me off you know.

Only part I find weird in those claims is the 'behind' part when Kon hides through use of being a pill. Aye?

He said he hides in their pack or something in his little stuffed body. What confuses me is how anyone tracking a spirit thread is dumb enough to not notice it going into a guys backpack, and of course Im still not sure if mod souls even have spirit threads. I'm assuming they do though, until proven otherwise.

Assuming your question above this quote was rhetorical I'll carry on, yes you're being cautious and what I'm being cautious of is my suspect trying to ensue doubt upon the claim so earnestly. It does worry me Korlash, theres three reasons for this.
1) You're Kon
2) You're poor scum (since it seems town wont lynch Sera this round)
3) You're town sticking to your points since you really do believe them.

I'd like to go with three but I honestly cant yet.

You might also like to know I take claims very seriouly in theme games and have been known to grill people for days over their claim. I'm not perfect, but I like to think I'm good at outing fakeclaims in theme games. If you reeally want a good meta on that look up Fireemblem or clerks. I would suggest deathnote, but as I was scum I was kinda faking it in that one so it's bad meta for this.

As far as other things go..
1) I'm not Kon. If I was I would be voting him already.
2) If I was scum I would have already swtiched back to Zee to take him out, providing he wasn't my mafia partner or something. Honestly, I can't say what I would do as scum...
3) If I've given you reason to doubt I believe my points let me know, otherwise I couldn't care less what you think of me.

The tanned grey haired dude who goes around Soul Society topless trying to destory it, yeno... FILLER BOSS MAN.(Vampires)

So in other words he isn't possibly in the set-up. Got it...

My role puts him in as a shoe-in dude. Thus I disagree. As for ze Kon thing again, I completely disagree (big suprise there~) as Kon's pill (being him) lets him go inside people in Bleach. Seraphim said behind, that worries me and perhaps why you aint believing him.

A shoe-in huh? Alright, I can assume urahara is a possibility, but if that's the case then the kids aren't becuase there just isn't any room left. Unless some of the main town pool is actually the scum in which case burn the mod...

[Korlash]

Damnit... EBWOP:

My role puts him in as a shoe-in dude. Thus I disagree. As for ze Kon thing again, I completely disagree (big suprise there~) as Kon's pill (being him) lets him go inside people in Bleach. Seraphim said behind, that worries me and perhaps why you aint believing him.

It really bothers me that you are so ready to believe his claim yet have obviously missed a major part of his flavor claim. Either you aren't really reading his claim, and thusly you're lying about believeing it, or you are so set in your mind that he is telling the truth you have failed to actully analyse and take in everything he said, in which case you have become biased and cannot be trusted in this issue.

This is the second time you have made mention to something Sera has already cleared up, in fact you quoted when he did it... i'd advise you to seriously rethink his claim because I don't think you ahve fully grasped it yet...

[Korlash]

I can, for several reasons:
1: I find no problem with two people being able to automatically defend each other.
2: We don't know for certain that the loophole exists.
3: The mod might've determined this before the game started.
4: I've seen first-hand on other sites docs and bodyguards, and bodyguards with watchers, making them practically immune to scum night kills.

1: Why not?
2) A loophole does exist... That has actually been my biggest concern with his role thus far. I can even go so far as to say somewhat of a paradox and infinite loop cycle might exist depending on how far out the mod planned this role.
3? I suppose it's possible. but it's just as equally possible that he didn't...
4> A game with two protection roles is a little different then a game with a protection and a complex hider role. We are talking about a role that has been altered, not a pre-existing role. And how does bodyguards and watchers make anything immune to anything?I'm not understanding something there...

Of course, if they're unbelieved and lynched, or there is more than one mafia, they still have a fair chance of losing.

Usually set-ups aren't balanced on the possibility of pro-town roles being lynched. However, the multiple scum groups theory is good here as we know there is a mafia group AND an SK. So two kills should be counted into the speculation on his claim. In addition one could speculate the possibility of a vig (although I find it unlikely personally) meaning it's possible we could have 3 NKs.

On this subject, have we figured out if protection targets pass on to who he hides behind yet or have we determined it's just "tracker" targets?

Hmm...*checks inbox for Mastin's role*
Comparing flavors.
Result:
80/20 on it feeling like it matches the flavor of my own role PM, belief's favor.

Funny because it in no way matches mine. But that's probably because I'm a totally different role and I don't own a pack. You do know that there is litterally only one part of his flavor I can even speculate that could match another so... if this was some way of trying to be subtle it wasn't very good...

I'll have to quickly ponder over whether to vote someone I believe is innocent for the sake of lynching someone for information (Seraph), or letting there be a no lynch.

What is wrong with lynching Zee? I like that idea... That should make everyone happy...

Also, if Seraphim is legit, it would seem to imply there is a tracker in this game. *scribbles down a note on what he already has written down*
Why else would the mod mention spirit thread tracking? For a vig? Doesn't work out as well.

So either this is a really bad attempt to cover up your really bad subtlety or you are just plain lying about something... And your comments about thinking about lynching sera really make me doubt what I'm thinking about you. I'm seriously considering if it is worth the added pressure I'll get to ask you to tell us what exactly about his flavor matches because... You're giving us mixed signals and this close to deadline that's really bad to be doing...

Um... I kinda like the option of lynching Zee right now just becuase it seems like trying to get Sera lynched has a high chance of ending badly. I think Zee is a good logical choice for runner up today and we can leave Sera for tomorrow. I'm leaving my vote on him right now for that reason, but if I get back from work tonight before deadline and need to change my vote I'll do it... That's cutting it close though...

[Korlash]

So no one at all cares that Mastin claimed his flavor matched Sera yet... Sera was scum? Funny, that's kinda the only thing I could think about all night...

You guys do what you need to do, I'll follow this one up...

Vote: mastin

[Korlash]

Sorry quick EBWOP:

Vote Gorrad

Phil appeared to have a guilty.

You do know how stupid this sounds right? Philly voted gorrad for like 4 posts yesterday then switched to Sera. If he had a guilty on im why the hell did he switch so fast?

[Korlash]

Korlash: I thought Mastin over through the night but I don't know how stupid scum would be in an incredibly blatant attempt to divert attention away from their partner's quickly sinking ship. Mastin doesn't come across as stupid. He might be egotistical enough to think it would have worked (I don't know the guy), but that would still leave the potental for him to be exposed if Seraphim perished at any other point.

True... I won't deny the logic in it but I personally didn't vote Sera when i had the chance based soley on Mastin and what I thought was a subtle hint at a claim backing Sera up. As sera was scum... you kinda see where I'm going with this. I really want to know his flavor and know just why and how it matched sera.

And i can't deny I like the Xtoxm vote...

[Korlash]

So Korlash, Mastin is noob-town. Xtoxm is, without the shadow of a doubt, scum.

I don't know man... bing a newbie or not won't change claiming your flavor matches a scum's... There is really only two things, 1 his flavor does indeed match what sera claimed in which case it should add up and I really shouldn't be worried anymore. Or 20 he lied... and is thus scum...

If you haven't noticed by now I'm a big fan of flavor. What matin did is a pretty big important deal to me. However, should my suspicious be assauged... I'd be more then happy to join the Xtoxm wagon. The thing on Gorrad today andsomething from yesterday both struck my suspicions. I don't think the unvote after the claim is such a big deal though as I feel any sane logical town should want to take time to discuss a claim and not just outright disbelieve it.

[Korlash]

Korlash, don't feel patronized by me ordering you to not be stupid. There's a very accurate quote that shafted posted the other day concerning my playstyle:

And for this I make no apologies, however I do empathize with players who think I'm mean. But really, Xtoxm is the play here. Gladdos should be placed under close scrutiny also.

I don't feel patronized by that... I call myself stupid all the time. And I've played with you before so I know what to expect and what not to.

My flavor also matched Seraphim's flavor; I just didn't say anything. Mastin as scum would not come up with such a lame defense for his scumbuddy Seraphim. Trust me on this. Draw your own conclusions over Xtoxm. Don't think too hard though. Or just give me the benefit of the doubt and vote Xtoxm for pressure's sake until he does something you find adequately scummy.

I just feel left out because mine wasn't even close... But fine... If it's not just his then it's not as suspicious as I thought.

Unvote:,

i'm not in the habit of voting for someone just becuase someone else said to but in Xtoxm's case I think I can make an exception. Theres nothing to be learned from Ghost except that he voted Glad... Which doesn't help at all. He pretty much denounced the Zwet wagon all day after he replaced in without actually backing up why, he then hammered him... Which makes perfect sense... And the thing with Gorrad today... yeah I can live with some pressure on him.

Vote: Xtoxm

[Korlash]

Also, keep in mind that, due to Philly's Role, we may well be looking at multiple mafias. Normally, I might think that the role simply meant that Philly couldn't find the SK, but as the SK's ALSO a hollow I think we may be looking at either a non-Hollow mafia partner (given flavor of "Hollow Mafia", unlikely) or another anti-town altogether.

If we are looking at multiple mafia's they suck as in two nights they have made a combined total of 1 kill.

I think it's more likely called "hollow cop" becuase he probably got his results as "hollow" or "Not hollow" and it could be that he COULD find the SK, to my knowledge most normally cops won't find the SK, so bybeing a hollow cop his role both found mafia and the SK through investigations.

The way the flavor was worded was almost an exact match to the flavor wording in my PM.
I raise this point in my document.

... Worded? Was it one word, or multiple? Was it phrases or simple words? And have you at least explained to yourself why any matching words in your PM might have also been given to Kon? I mean let's say hypothetically the word is "Spirit threads" then sure, I can get the match. but if the word is "Backpack" I can't honestly get how you felt that confirmed him.

There's no way to give flavor without claiming, to my knowledge.

It's possible... But I wouldn't suggest it. Don't misunderstand my other post, I did fuly intend to try and make you claim as well, but as I no longer 'need' the flavor I don't need the claim either.

[Korlash]

I seriously doubt it. I think he just got lucky with a falseclaim...

I love it when people ignore the most obvious fact and instead choose to use wishful thinking that the guy 'just got lucky'. Fake claims are a big part of most theme games... i cannot stress that enough.

1: My traitor theory,
2: Mafia godfathers
3: Non-hollow mafia. We don't know for certain that Phil's killer was a hollow--

I don't see how the traitor explains Philly's role, a godfather would still probably be a hollow so it makes no sense either, and do you have any examples of non-hollow mafias that could be in this game? Aside from Uryu, who I highly doub is an anti-town force, I can't think of any non-hollow scum characters that make sense being here.

Nowhere does it say hollow.

No duh... The mod isn't going to tell us stuff like that. All evidence so far points to the scum being hollows, so that's a perfectly logical assumption. On another note, why are you bringing up "phillys killer" instead of just saying "mafia" do you know something we don't? It seems odd you would say it that way... almost like you know the mafia wasn't responcible for it...

The way it was phrased seemed almost an exact match to the way my role PM is phrased. I believed the claim was paraphrased because of how similar it was.

So you believed it was paraphrased, which means he changed it, and the changed form matched your Flavor so because it matched and you feel it was paraphrase you know it doesn't really match.. so you believed it? I don't think I'm getting something...

[Korlash]

Aisen and his lot.

In karakuta town? *slap* Bad Gorrad... bad...

[Korlash]

See Don Kanonji is the best choice for a secondary non-hollow scum based soley on th fact he half created a hollow in the show. he's also in the list of secondary near-safe claims along with Kon, although that alone doesn't make it fake. I am currently sitting on a list of the most likely 10 town characters, of that I only assume we have 8 town roles, meaning two of them are likely not in the game. And With Don Kanonji not even being a part of that list it makes him even less likely to be in the game.

I can't understand why you won't claim if you really are town though. Just giving a name like this will probably hurt you more in the long run then help you...

[Korlash]

I don't out wifom the mod, I analyse flavor.

[Korlash]

You know for a game full of "Man I think Korlash and/or Gorrad is scum!" There really isn't a lot being done about it... i mean I don't mind being called a scum suspect or being linked to Gorrad or anything but to waste all this time constantly saying one of us is scum andnever doing anything about seems... well dumb...

@Zee: Just how long does it take to explain? Is this an epic story? I mean... wouldn't it just have been as easy to not make two posts telling us you're going to explain and just say it? I honestly can't imagine you would know anyhing that would take more then a paragraph to explain it...

[Korlash]

Judging from his post just now I have no idea why his vote isn't on me...

[Korlash]

This description mentions something brought up quite recently, Don Kanonji.
Which leads me to believe Xtoxm's claim.
However I did believe Seriphim's claim as well, so I might just be entirely mistaken.
To be honest, I did not suspect at ALL that Don Kanonji would be a character in this game until Xtoxm claimed.
Now that he mentions it, the relation between his claim and my investigation is undeniable.

You're overlooking the fact that you are overlooking the methos grande, the most likely of all the hollows to be in this game. The hollow you are refering to in question is the least likey out of the 5 to be in the game because it was the first of them to appear. The theme of this is late in the first season pretty much from the time Chad first found his powers to when Rukia left I would guess. Believing Xtoxm's claim based off a guess of who the mafia could be is dumb...

And what investigation is this you speak of? Investigating roles or an in game investiation?

SCRATCH THAT. Xtoxm is confirmed town to me.
I understand, it sounds like a stretch, but please get off him.
I was doing some more research and I realized something.
I can't say what yet, but i'm certain i'm on to something BIG.
Please, I have found something really important to the town,
but I can't explain without claiming, or giving the mafia too much ideas on what to claim.
But please trust me on this, i'm extremely sure that Xtoxm is town.
I can't believe I didn't realize this before..

Bullshit, either elaberate or shut up. Only Albert can get away with shit like this because the rest of us are too weak and incapable to do anything about that.

*sigh*, more pondering. I realized that Xtoxm isn't confirmed.. that was an exaggeration.
I apologize. But i'm leaning quite heavily on him being town.
The only reason I have doubt is due to the fact that Seriphim claimed Kon and was actually in fact mafia.
But this time i'm really sure that Xtoxm is real.
If everyone wishes for me to, I will explain my reasoning for thinking why Xtoxm is clear.
Unfortunately, it may probably involves me claiming.
I don't see my claim affecting the town too detrimentally,
but it is possible that it can be unsafe to do so.

This is an example of when you should delete the worthless paragraph before posting it. If you have evidence Xtoxm is town you should tell us so we don't mislynch him. If you have to claim, then hey better then a mislynch no?

@ The rest of your role speculation: i pretty much said almost all of that 10 pages ago... So I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking that way. Although I do find it funny you calling me the idiot when you're making this huge post just to reiterate half the things I already said.

Need I bring up DN mafia again? Lind L. Taylor was a role, as was Hideki Ryuga. Minor roles have a place in theme games, Korlash.

No shit... You're preaching to the choir here man. But that doesn't change anything. Unless Xtoxm claims more there is no reason to believe Don is here. He wasn't in any way connected to the big hollow fight at the end... Then again neither was I... Hmmm... Well I mean I suppose i was in a way... sorta...

You know I like my flavor speculation until I have to work my character into it... I screw everything up...

[Korlash]

There is no freaking jester! THERE NEVER IS! If you allow yourself to think there is you will fuck something up.

A Jester is an acceptable loss. if I lynch a jester that's no skin off my nose. But I will not waste my time worrying about it. 9 times out of 10 there isn't even a jester. And on that 10th time either the mod will tell you there is a jester or the jester will be a surviver role like Gorrad had in Deathnote...

jeeze... Stop wasting time with Jester speculation...

[Korlash]

There very well could be Menos Grande, but likely aren't.
I've done my research, and speculated for a while.
With Xtoxm's claim my theory is only strengthened.
Not only that, but the roles that are flipping definitely aren't matching with the beginning flavour given either.

The main hollow of the contest was a MG... what do you mean it likely isn't in here? that's complete Bullshit. It's the most obvious choice for any GF or high ranking scum role. It's the main enemy Ichigo and uryu have to take down during their contest. it's the main freaking bad guy of season 1... How can you say you've speculated for a while and done reasearch and have come to the conclusion it's not likely in the set-up?

All this is some fabrication to try and help Xtoxm, and even then it's no evidence he's a real role.

How are the flipping roles not matching the flavor?

[Korlash]

Oh, but I never said anything about believing his claim due to the scum we might be up against.

yes... you did...

This description mentions something brought up quite recently, Don Kanonji.
Which leads me to believe Xtoxm's claim.

This is all after you explained Jub. You are believing Xtoxm's claim because you believe Jub is a likely scum role. First you bring up a BS argument now you're lying about it? What is up with that man?

[Korlash]

how do you "almost know" both the mafia?

[Korlash]

I'm a spirit enabler BTW... How likely do you think we have two in this game?

[Korlash]

It's possible. I mean, if I just described you're role perfectly, do you really think that's a fluke?

You didn't even come close to describing it 'perfectly.' Granted though if our two roles existed together mine is completely different from what yours would be.

[Korlash]

What is your role?

Like role name or exact ability?

[Korlash]

Would you mind answering a question for me first? Just seeing as how i only claimed to test yours I want as much out of it as I can.

Does your target stay empowered for the rest of the game then? Or is it a one night stand type of deal?

[Korlash]

I don't believe the claim.

I think that the mafia have a rolename cop. Such as here:

Are you assuming he targeted me and learned my role name?

[Korlash]

I'm

Unvote:

ing for now just to have time to process the claim. More on that when I get home from work.

As for my claim I have the ability of Spirit Enabeling Attachment. I choose a player to attach myself to and there-by activate any latentspiritual powers. I also ave a secondary ability that isn't that important to talk about right now. Although it does have to do with that loop thing I was mentioning with Sera's hider claim.

And of course since I've claimed this much, I am Yuichi Shibata. I know, how freaking minor a character is that? I've come up with two situations that explains him in the set-up but if him and Don both exists you have o know a couple of the major characters don't.

[Korlash]

Hmmm... That's pushing it a little... The actual filming to boost rateings part didn't happen in season 1... Although I would have to rewatch that episode to remember what he said specifically to Ichigo.

[Korlash]

*gasp* I have found Chado! My non-official sub goal has been achieved! Hold me... ^_^

K: Do you think we should claim our targets so far?

No. Let's just assume the two of us believe each other for now. because of the number of people claiming they may have latent abilities I would rather anyone who was told their abilities were awakened claim. If one of us has targeted one of these players claiming their PM suggests they havelatent abilities it might be a sign they are scum. It's iffy and could result in misinformation sure, but it would definitly bring another benefit to our claiming.

I'd like other's opinions on it sure, but it sounds to me like the best strategy. Unless anyone has any huge doubts about us.

Korlash didn't claim what I expected. I picked up LOTS of tells from him that would suggest another role...

Does what i claim contradict any tells? Otherwise what's the point of this? it seems like you're throwing subtle doubt into my claim without actually saying it.

Also, X, Korlash...who have you targeted? I'd think if they knew they got some sort of extra ability, they'd instantly know about it, hence, able to confirm/deny this event from happening...

I checked with Oh God. Anyone i target would instantly know the same night.

[Korlash]

how the hell did I come off as Orihime? I am not the most useless character ever invented in an anime... *grumbles* I feel insulted...

[Korlash]

Do you even actually want me to respond to any of that? Eh i'll do it when I get back regardless.

[Korlash]

Naw. I'm actually likeing his lynch today. But before he goings into "OMG OMGUS KORLASH!" mode I'll respond to his post.

I think we should be lynching either Korlash or Gorrad today. Nobody else. I don't want to explain my reasons for this (so, yes, I'm asking people to trust me and my judgment) at all today - besides saying that the reasons are grounded in D2 judgment - because it would really help scum at the town's expense. And the deal is, in my opinion, if we string one of them up and he's scum then the other is pretty much cleared town. If we lynch one of them up and he's town the other is a scumbag.

This is actually the biggest reason I like him as scum today and also a small reason Gorrad is cleared a bit in my eyes. Where is the evidence that if one of me of Gorrad flips town, the other is obv scum? Where is the evidence that if one is scum, the other is obv town? This looks like he's setting up one mislynch today with the other to follow the next day. However, I'm still willing to allow him the chance to backtrack and try to manufacture evidence, or of course point out where I missed it. Whichever...

In 302 Korlash explains he liked his ZEE vote because 1) originally he noted the night-action discussion scum tell and then because 2) he thought ZEE's responses were scummy. A day (and page) later in 330, he's oblivious to the Seraphim suspicion - even though it started out from the same genesis as the ZEE suspicion. I didn't catch Korlash commenting upon Seraphim again until six days later in 411, when he claims to be ready to hammer simply because he doesn't like the claim. He says that he wants Seraphim to explain himself more before he hammers/votes, gets into a small tiff with ZEE with the position that Seraphim's claim is scummy, and in 422 he once again says that Seraphim's claim is scummy. Now, here's what really gets me: By 422 ZEE has unvoted so Korlash wouldn't be hammering. By 422 Seraphim has further explained his role (the only reason Korlash gave as to why he didn't hammer in 411), but Korlash has repeatedly voiced a strong suspicion of that claim. So... what's the deal? Where's the vote? It makes absolutely no sense - he looks like he doesn't want to do in a scum buddy. The icing on the cake is his 427 (and later posts) when he's arguing with Mastin about just how scummy Seraphim's claim is but there's still absolutely no vote.

I'll put this as short as I can. I like flavor and I like claims. seeing as how I called Chandolier as mafia on day 1 and seeing as how I was right about Sera I think I have good reason to do what I do to claims. I didn't hammer him at first so he could full claim, after whoever unvoted me voting him was kinda pointless. I didn't vote him in the end because Mastin had made it look like he was claiming Tracker and half confirming Sera's story. Now if you can explain to me how putting a guy who's claim I am currently questioning at L-1 would make it more likely to get answers from him before a lynch you can continue arguing my not vote as somthing. If someone had put sera at L-1 again I probably would have voted him. but as long as I was continueing my question, I felt keeping him at L-2 would give me the most time to continue my questioning.

This seemed to be a bit of a premature denial. The closest thing I spotted to someone connecting Korlash to Seraphim was Phily's 356, but that was Phily wanting to know what Albert thought of Korlash and Gorrad, and he thought they could either be paired with Seraphim. I mean, looking at Phily's post he doesn't seem to be too terribly specific or accusing, so Korlash's post looks a bit like an attempt to quash any connection between him and SeraScum.

You just helped prove my post. Thank you. Even you can only find one post linking me and sera as partners, so let's think for a moment. Why do you think I would ask why people were linking me to him... Oh right, because no one ever gave any reasoning or posts as to it! Philly just up and said it out of the blue! yeah asking him why is so scummy on my part. /sarcasm

An early misdirect from what? And shouldn't people lay the ground work for future lynches if we see scummy behavior?

In retrospect obviously Sera, but at the time I only meant misdirect from anyone currently under pressure. sera and Zee are probably the only two that were, so I suppose I meant misdirect from one of them. And no, you should lay ground work when you see reason. saying "I think so and so are scum" and NEVER saying why is not good enough for future lynches. You are laying the ground work for people you keep saying you think is scummy without ever saying why they are scummy.

Add this again to my seting up mislynches speculation.

Really weird. I get a manufactured vibe from this little argument he was making.

... How so? And how does it make me scum? Just throwing out useless stuff now huh?

I don't like Korlash's intricate knowledge of what tools scum has in his 423 argument.

My knowledge of past theme games makes me scum now? So... what... I'm scum forvever now? i can't forget my past experiences... So I guess I'm always going to be scum because I will always believe scum have safeclaims in theme games... Good logic there GC... good logic indeed. Oh wait... right... ha ha ha...

I believe DOS' claim because of the mention of a passive ability. I have one, too. I have no indication (direct or otherwise) of any "latent" ability. Truth be told, I do not think my character would have a latent ability.

damnit I meant to use the word passive in my post... oh well sucks for me. The "other ability" I meantioned is in fact a passive ability. not that I expect you to believe it.

I think Xtox is town - has nothing to do with his role, everything to do with his play. Therefore, I think his claim is real. What I remember from the anime, however, was that all his character did was muck things up. At one point he and Ichigo's sisters team up, if I recall correctly. Did he start doing stuff then with some semblance of competence?

what about his play, the play he pretty much does as both scum and town from my experience with him, makes you think him town? How can you make the statement "He is town" over what you see as just a town playstyle from him?

And fort he record, the karakura super squad does not fit with this theme... The only real Don Kinonji appearance is the time with the hollow he created and possible a comeo in the next episode when he visits Ichigo at home, unless that was the same episode...

[Korlash]

EBWOP: erase the "me" in the third paragraph. Sometimes words get mixed up in my head when I type and that just makes it hard to understand.

[Korlash]

There are a few things I would rather not talk about. The evidence behind the Gorrad/Korlash dichotomy is one of them, though it's plain to see with one's eyes open while looking at D2. I will say that Phily, our cop and confirmed innocent, thought that either Gorrad or Korlash was scummy. My reasoning does not stem from this fact, but this just shows that a confirmed innocent was also of the mind that at least one of these two were scumbags. So, technically, the town doesn't just have to trust me - the town can trust Phily and I.

So this explains why you killed him. Makes sense now.

Refusing to explain seting up future lynches is always bad and only confirms what Bullshit it is. saying people should trust the ideas of one guy (who also never explained himself BTW) just because he was town is also stupid. Town is wrong all the time. Being town doesn't make you a god who knows all. Explain your reasonings scum.

And this makes no sense. You were fine with hammering him, but not fine with putting him L-1 because it was pointless? If you find someone scummy, you vote them. It isn't a pointless exercise. And if you're wanting more time to continually question someone, then I can understand keeping them at L-2. But saying you wanted more time by keeping him at L-2 while at the same time proclaiming you would hammer him if someone else put their vote back on is totally contradictory. Your reasoning is nonsensical.

When I hammer a guy over a claim, I control when it happens and how much information I get. if I had put him at L-1 it's entirely possible he would have been hammered before Mastin did that post of his. If Mastin had actually been some sort of role that confirmed him it would prove my point of waiting, I actually think the fact his post caused me to doubt my self is proof enough. When it comes to lynching people for role speculation there is a lot of... risk... My saving my vote until the actual hammer is one way I try to minimise the risk.

Phily just threw out the notion that maybe you or Gorrad might be connected to Seraphim to Albert, and wanted to know what Albert made of it. The fact that you jumped into the conversation attempting to denounce a line of argument that had yet to be made looks like blatant pre-mature distancing.

And how is what I said denouncing anything? All I did was ask a question, if anything I gave Phily the oprounity to strengthen it by providing reasons. Saying i was attempting to denounce a line of argument INVOLVING ME is reaching of the highest level. I have ever right to demand reasons of any line of thought with me included in it.

Phily wanted to focus on you or Gorrad. Phily was our cop, so you most definitely can't be saying he was trying to misdirect contemporary pressure for any anti-town reason. The only other person who I saw suggesting the Gorrad/Korlash dichotomy was myself - and I had made it abundantly clear that lynching Seraphim was a priority. So maybe you can explain more what ill-begotten pressure "misdirection" you were attempting to dissuade.

You keep bringing Philly up at every turn. When I first suggested this is why you kiled him it was a joke. I'm begining to believe it now. Would you still have tried pulling this if Phily wasn't a cop?

And as far as you saying "sera was a priority" yeah... I'd say the same thing about a scum buddy that was going down. Continuing to suggest certain people are scum without providing a hint of evidence or reason definitly looks like possible misdirection, whether it was or wasn't on yours or phily's part I don't really care. The fact still remains, you were bringing up the possibility that I was scum without providing any reason why while Sera (proven scum) was being wagoned. Until you flip town, I'm still suggesting that was proabbly misdirection. In Phily's case, maybe he's just impressionable. Maybe just dumb.

No, your statement looks like you're scum trying to look town. Hence, manufactured. I don't find that opinion to be useless.

How? Explain to me what makes what I said more likely to be said by scum then town?

No. You should have no idea if scum are given safe claims or not. Your words and actions come across as if you know for a fact there are safe claims involved. Nobody would know for a fact except scum and OGML.

... That's because I ALWAYS believe that to be the case. Where have my words in any way suggested I "know for a fact"?

I also think his claim is legit because I caught him searching for *something* when Seraphim claimed. I assumed it was because Xtox had a passive ability (which I indicated at some point in D2) and so was seeing if Seraphim had one as well. Apparently (and I'm assuming here), Xtox was actually looking to see if Seraphim had a latent ability. That means Xtox didn't just pull this claim out of his butt.

Caught him "searching"? What the hell does that mean? How can you catch him "searching" in the middle of the day? Are you talking about an in game activity, or like search the web? I mean... I just don't understand what you are saying here...

And I hardly see how "searching" corroborates with "Filming to increase ratings"... It hardly confirms him no matter how you clearify it...

[Korlash]

Well, you found me. Congratulations. Was it worth it?

*sniff* yes... ;_;

I am wondering if a mass-claim is proper here. In all likelihood, the scum has quite a good idea of the set-up already by this point, and claiming now deprives scum of the opportunity of an additional night of thinking of fake-claims. We seem to have a number of people who think it might be detrimental to claim their roles, but as others have pointed out, it is not really detrimental if it (i) successfully prevents a town player from being lynched, or (ii) results in a scum being lynched.

The problem here is still the idea of safeclaims. As it has been shown there area few people who do not believe safeclaims exist, hell GC has already attacked me for even suggesting it. Let's just pretend for a second the scum got safeclaims like Orihime or Mr. hat and Clogs for example. Anyone who doesn't believe safeclaims exist would never lynch those characters over mine. As it stands we should only massclaim if and when we as a whole can't find anyone who is scummy enough to wagon. Once we hit a dead end so to speak, a massclaim seems acceptable. Right now, it's just not worth it.

Can you go into more detail for this speculation? I am not understanding how such a role would work in theory or in practice.

huh how did I miss that... This is a pretty good question actually. For one I highly doubt a negative effecting role would be called "spirit enabler"... For two, the only really negative effects are either killing or roleblocking and both of those are completely different roles. Perhaps Gorrad can explain what he is thinking here...

[Korlash]

And the town isn't wrong all the time - what the hell is with that statement? How in the world do you think town wins if they're wrong all the time? And, yes. We should pay attention to the indicators of the confirmed, dead cop because we know that his suspicions were not motivated by scum origins. Now, if we disagree with his inclinations is one thing. But I don't. And I trust the cop's inclinations because he's was town and they matched my own. So I'm asking the town to trust the cop (as they should) and me (who was one of the players who strongly pushed for scumbag Seraphim's lynch). Not too much of a stretch here.

Not "all the time" in the sense of every single time, but "all the time" in the sense it is a common thing. Grammer is lame, screw English. Let's all start speaking japanese or soemthing. At least then only sentence structure is screwed over.

And Phily didn't provide any reasonings either. I'd love to pay attention to what he said if he said anything. saying "I think so and so is scum" doesn't mean shit, no matter what you flip. If he had provided reasons, built a case, or hell even gave a few good attacks here and there then you would have something to stand on. As it stands you are pushing that just because he was town, his unbacked up suspicions are somehow above needing to be justified anymore.

The town should trust the cop in matters in which him being the cop gives him more info then the rest of us, not in every single thing every single time. being the cop does not make him a better scum hunter during the day, only gives him more information at night. an anyone who thinks he investigated me or Gorrad night one should explain why, otherwise him being the cop has nothing to do with his supicions on me and Gorrad.

And the degree to which you are taking your Bus on Sera only confirms it as said bus. Wasn't Albert also pushing for sera's lynch? yet you couter him, call him an idiot. say he is wrong, so... Thusly by your logic you are an idiot and are wrong as well.

This is so scummy that it hurts so much. And it's scummy because the reason for my dichotomy is so incredibly town. If you truly don't see the cause behind it, it's because you're either a really dense/blind town or you're a scumbag feigning ignorance.

... It's a nice way of calling my post scummy without saying how. You just can't find reasons for anything can you?

I'm not actually fit to respond to the rest at the moment. But I can't help myself in responding to the above.

seeing the crap you responed with you probably should have waited.

[Korlash]

Gorrad or Korlash is scum. Or a combination of the two.
I strongly suggest we lynch Gorrad.

This is a pretty out of the park thing to say as your more recent posts have suggested you do not find fault in my claim. Even so much as to say my calim CONFIRMS someone else. How does my claim confirm Glad if I am scum?

Erg0, I understand that you have put a lot of effort into your theories, but no one is going to trust you based on the flimsy, circumstantial evidence you have brought against Gorrad and Korlash.

I think Zee will... Although two people is hardly something to shake a stick at.

Yeah, well I think Erg0 is town and shouldn't be lynched.

I think Xtoxm or Glados should go today.

I suppose I could be willing to lynch Xtoxm today. I don't necessarily disbelieve his claim outright but I do think there is enough fault with it to accept his lynch. However, in my recent Insane Asylum game I was in a similar position where another person claimed my role and I felt mistrust towards him. While that gives me some doubt in this game I feel our claims (mine and Xtoxm's) are not similar enough as they were in the Insane game.

I'd rather not lynch though until I get some understanding as to why you think Glad is scum and GC is town...

[Korlash]

You role is believeable. However, your actions reek of scum. Or maybe that's your cologne..

Such as....?

Korlash totally ruins my theory in his post 616.

How so?

And:

ZEEnon, would you mind giving a compiled synopsis on why you suspect Korlash?

Would be nice to have this one answered...

[Korlash]

So I haven't been researching, or I haven't been researching independantly?

Not that I want to budge into your and ABR's convo... but... I haven't seen much use from your "reaserch" so far. I mean you seem completely bent on set-up and role speculation which is fine, but you seem to be keeping half of it to yourself. This kinda defeats the purpose of speclation of this degree if you don't present your full argument. This is mostly in regards to your "theory"... I may be wrong but I don't remember you ever actually telling us what said theory is... And so every time you mention it you pretty much make whatever you are talking about worthless.

As for independantly seeing as how you match GC in the fact you have yet to actually tell me why Me and/or Gorrad are scum I don't think you qualify as doing anything period, independantly or not. If you were to say why you think this way, or back it up with reasons or whatever I would say you were working independantly as you would be the only one doing it...

[Korlash]

i'm going to start ignoreing you Zee because if I don't I'm going to have a meltdown. You have officially used up your worthless unjustified accusations quota and I'm done fighting you. if you want to actually include reasons sometime or maybe stop parroting GC for a second and think for yourself then I might start giving you the time of day again, until then...

Re: Xtoxm's role: The way I see it, it's like Korlash's Spirit Enabler ability in that each role has some special change it undergoes when targetted. For scum, however, the change is negative (ie. a roleblock, role change, vote removal, target change, perhaps even recruitment).

Still don't see where he would get "enabler" from then... Unless his role is like "disabler" and he just guessed it...

[Korlash]

I thought you were Urahara--you dropped LOADS of Urahara tells--I have them in a document. They were all over the place, really.
Anyway, your claim does make sense, and I KNOW who you targeted n1 from a post of yours at some point in the game that I will not reveal (you made it too obvious, Korlash). It makes sense.

I would like to see these... -_-

Our Mod DOES like pairs of two--two Martrs, two vanillas, four partially night-kill immune townies, etc. Which does, indeed, make it far more believable, but not instantly confirming you, X.

Unless this set-up is show to have some sort of numerical partnership to it, past set-up meta isn't all that convinsing. Considering how a lot of us seem to have active and passive abilities, it's possible multiple roles were used... However, until a massclaim we can't rely on "pairs" theories.

[Korlash]

GC should be ignored by everyone until the end of the day.

Awesome plan...

[Korlash]

Like the non-madeup evidence you have that makes one of me or Gorrad scum if the other is town and town if the other is scum?

I think there are lots of things we would all love to hear...

[Korlash]

So you agree with me that it isn't made up? Thanks, pal!

So we're going to start twisitng each other's words now then? Ok, so you admit to agreeing Albert's evidence against Xtoxm isn't Circustantial. Cool.

[Korlash]

"Like the non-madeup evidence you have that makes one of me or Gorrad scum if the other is town and town if the other is scum?" I know what you were trying to say (my evidence for the Gorrad/Korlash dichotomy was made up) but that's not what your sentence actually says.

No... If you're going to argue semantics you need to try looking at the full picture.

You said:

"Would love to hear that non-circumstantial evidence you have against Xtox."

What I said was in responce to that (albert's ninja not withstanding) implying I too would like to hear your evidence because you have yet to show me you have any. This means all evidence you have shown is nothing more then made up crap. Ta da! See how easy it is when you actually piece things together.

So... Yeah. I wasn't twisting your words around. I was playfully pointing out that your sentence structure made your accusation fall flat. Way to miss the point entirely, though, buddy. Actually, the only way my comment would have missed the mark would have been if you were being sarcastic - but your response (that I was "twisting your words") shows that you were being genuine and therefore my criticism stands. Untarnished. Jeeze, touchy.

seeing as how you missed the orriginal point thus causing your point to be the failure I didn't miss anything... And while the subtle use of the term "buddy" might be clever when you are actually int he right, once shown you were in fact in the wrong only makes you look like an ass on top of an idiot. So kudos,

buddy

.

Vote: Gorrad. Forgot to do that earlier. I honestly think Korlash and Gorrad are equally scummy. The fact that Gorrad already has some votes on him is why I'm voting him.

Man took you long enough. But I bet ya Gorrad won't be lynched barring any unforseen circumstances. You might as well just switch your vote onto me now so I can start owning you early. I'm all for wasted time on useless wagons but, I just figured you'd like to tunnel in on me sooner then later.

Your 621 is simply you griefing over Xtox's normal play style. It doesn't explain why that is somehow a discrepancy between play and role. Especially considering my 630 (at the bottom) and 660 (second quote segment) actually show how his claim and behavior actually go incredibly well together. You're nowhere nearly as convincing as you think you are, sorry.

Actually he kind is. Xtoxm's readiness to be lynched and refusal to claim really doesn't go well with what he claimed. I mean if he isn't lying his claim does have two opprotunities to be confirmed no?

As far as his actions confirming his role goes though, his statement "Scum would benefit from my claim" does make some sense in that he may have feared outing the people he targeted. I myself went over this situation in my head a while ago and came to the conclusion there was no real harm in claiming or scum knowing what I was or who I targeted. Hence my early on "It doesn't matter is scum know who I am" comments which i believe I made shortly after I thought about this... Although it was so long ago I can't be certain anymore. So I think my point with this was that while the tatement itself kinda fit with the role, and the attitude toward claiming does have some grounds, if he had really thought about it like I had he shouldn't have seen any harm in claiming, in fact he should have been ready to claim. Although I suppose I shouldn't base what others should do on myself... But that just makes it moot either way.

[Korlash]

I'm still waiting for the people Who have had abilities activated to claim what nights they had it activated. And yes, I am fully awaiting the attacks from GC and...well... anyone else for suggesting this. For once I'm actually doing something self destructive for the benefit of the town as a whole... ;_; makes my heart proud...

[Korlash]

You know on second thought maybe not... My entire reasonings for this was so that when and if I flipped I could confirm the people I targeted instead of having to have them confirm me but I suppose in reality there is nothing saying scum can't have latent abilities as well as town... Hmmm maybe I should think about things further before posting them.

Anyways either way works for me. I will say I targeted Gorrad one of the nights and if he had been able to tell me which night his latent abilities (if any) had been activated I could have thusly helped confirm him if and when i flipped town thus preventing the double mislynch GC seemed to be setting up. But as I doubt GC has enough support to do the double mislynch either way... doesn't actually matter anymore...

Anyways Im off to work...

[Korlash]

... I've already claimed to be a spirit enabler as well. You're pushing me as scum and failed to read my claim? what a moron...

Welcome to normal Xtox play.

I've been in like 5-6 games with him. I'm not a Xtoxm newb.

I have no idea what this means.

It means between Gorrad and me I'm the most logical choice to be lynched and so wagoning Gorrad is doomed to failure. Not that I think I have any real chance of being lynched either, it's just dumb play on your part wagoning the wrong guy.

It's not semantics: your sentence structure was just plain wrong in terms of what you were intending to say. Semantics would be arguing over whether or not you should an ellipse after "No," not a discussion over what you are actually saying. Besides, I said I knew what you meant, but I was messing around with you because you phrased your wording incorrectly. So... no. I didn't miss your point - I actually have already stated what your point was - and you need to word your sentences correctly.

My wording was right. Either you did fial to get my point or are just incapable of comprehening it. Either way this line of argument only serves to end with each of us calling the other idiots and wasting a lot of time. If you actually have a point in it say it now, otherwise I'm ending it with "learn to read you moron" and you can end it with "learn grammer you idiot" and then we can get on with trying to lynch each other. Savy?

[Korlash]

I read your re-claim/Gorrad targeting incorrectly - thus I was confused as it conflicted with your earlier claim. Must be that pig-headedness just seeping through my ability to read. Hey, if you can mess up sentence structure I guess I can screw up reading comprehension. Tit for tat. Also: How do you know only town has latent abilities? Should we assume this to be the case?

It's cool, I miss stuff too. It's just missing the guy who you are calling scum's claim is kinda bad on your part. I mean that's a pretty big thing to overlook... And I already mentioned how it isn't proven only town has latent abilities and thus I admitted my orriginal plan of getting my targets to claim first meant nothing. I would not suggest we assume only town has latent abilities, although if I were a betting man I would place my money on it if a gun was at my head.

So... you're trying to convince me that it's more logical to lynch you instead of Gorrad? Uh. Really?

Not logical, policy. I was the one trying to get Gorrad to claim before I did, thus if one of us were scum I'd be the more likely one as you could argue I was "fishing". In addition, if gorrad correctly states the night I targeted him, lynching me has the added bonus of possible confirming that on his part, which while it won't confirm him as town outright, it will definitly be something to think about tomorrow.

In further adition, your case outline on me far outweighed the one on Gorrad... But that could just be my biasness on that one, perhaps they are semingly equal.

In my opinion, out of me and Gorrad, I do seem to be the obvious choice.

I've noticed you've declined to comment on your steady push to lynch the obvDoc on D2.

Sorry, what? Did I miss something? Can't very well comment on something I have no knowledge about now can I? Are you saying you know who the doctor is?

[Korlash]

One town result isn't worth claiming to save from a mislynch with plenty of people left. Do I smell fishing?

Yeah, that is technically defined as fishing. If a person is about to be lynched and someone shouts out "I have info he isn't scum" then it is my job and yours as well to find out what that info is. There are two things to consider, 1... The guy just told the scum he had info, so "fishing" for it isn't exactly going to doom us all. And 2... If the info is correct we might prevent a mislynch.

Saying "It's not worth preventing a mislynch with plenty of people left" does not sound like a very town thing to say. I find it very hard to believe any town is willing to allow a mislynch by ignoring evience just because it's not LYLO.

I disagree. In context of the anime/manga, the only MG that appears is a gillian, which is mindless. There's almost no chance of an MG being a godfather in that sense. Also, being much more powerful than the average hollow, I really doubt it'd be a goon. If anything, I'd have called the MG a serial killer, but we've already got one of those down.

You might have a point in it being mindless making it less likely to be a GF, although as far as Hollows go it was the most powerful, the biggests, and in fact the main enemy of karakura town. Although I'm fairly certain I remember something in the anime saying all the hollows were in some way 'working for' something bigger, which i suspected was the MG. Thusly, making the MG fit the GF role perfectly.

@The Claims from Korlash and Xotxm: I'll buy both of them with no qualms or comments for the moment.

You have no comments at all on the claims?

Can someone do me a favor and list all the claims/fix the one I have below?
2. Gorrad - claimed latent abilities
3. Korlash - claimed Yuichi spirit enabler
4. Green Crayons - not claimed
5. GLaDOS - not claimed
6. Albert B. Rampage - not claimed
7. Mastin - claimed latent abilities
9. Xtoxm - claimed Don something or other, spirit enabler
11. ZEEnon - Claimed Chad
12. Jebus - claimed no latent abilities

You mixed up Zee and Glad...

[Korlash]

Role Claim Coming Soon
Too tired today .

So you need time to make one up? It takes like 2 minutes to give a full claim, 3 if you're an advent breadcrumber, and 5 if you forgot where your breadcrumbs were.

I really hate when people post stuff like this... I mean regardless of oru alignment it would have been better for you to just not post anything... *sigh*

[Korlash]

Korlash: I didn't say I missed your claim. I said when you claimed a second time I misread what you wrote, which clashed with what you originally claimed. Thus, I was confused. Also, your insistence that you're the better lynch over Gorrad is still very weird.

Ok I can undertand that, I still think it's true, and can you please respond to:

[quote"Korlash"]Sorry, what? Did I miss something? Can't very well comment on something I have no knowledge about now can I? Are you saying you know who the doctor is?[/quote]

Thank you.

Did we decide upon a mass claim?

To my knowledge no. I still think it's a bad idea.

[Korlash]

;_; Not Chad...

[Korlash]

Please reread 668, 671 and 674. I was/am waiting for ZEE to make his claim before I responded to you in full (which will be basically a "and so what is your response?" so feel free to ready your reply).

So you are subtley trying to coach Zee on his claim?

[Korlash]

Are... are you serious? For starters, there's nothing subtle about me saying "Zee is the doctor because of x, y and z posts/tells/hints." How is it even processing in your brain that that is subtle? I'm blatantly saying what I think. I fail to see how you think it's coaching, as well.

I did, however, notice you immediately attacked me (over stuff that has already been posted... did you just not read it earlier?). Knee-jerk reaction, much? Whose stuck in a tunnel vision now? DOS also claimed that this is an abundantly clear conclusion as to ZEE's role so it's not like I'm pulling this out of thin air. Your insistence on attacking me instead of answering the question has been noted, Mr. Ad Hom.

Alright green, you want Ad hom I'll give it to you... *clears throat*

You said I attacked the obv doctor, or some similar phrasing of the word. I asked for simple clearification of what you meant. You then said you would not respond to me until after Zee claimed. What you fail to realise is that what I wanted you to respond to was not something I said, it was something you said. meaning you were not refusing to respond to my stuff, but to your own. So, by saying you are refusing to respond to your own post until Zee claims you are somehow linking what you said to zee's claim, as what you said was regarding me attacking a doctor, or whatever phrase you used, the only possible connection to Zee's claim would be if you were either hinting he would claim the doctor (something you f town couldn't know) or that he had already claimed doctor, which was impossible as you said you were still waiting for his claim.

It is logical for me to assume you were thusly in fact coaching zee to claim doctor, because if you were town you woud never link the word 'doctor" to someone you thought was the doctor until they themselves claimed it first. Unless your stupid. (See, I put some ad hom in there for ya.)

Now I did immediately attack you for it because you were refusing to answer your own shit via an excuse that had nothing to do with it what-so-ever. And I dare you, oh I dare you to say the excuse still flies. Please, I would love for you to validate my coaching accusation.

Now, if you would kindly fucking answer it, maybe I can get on with my not in any way tunneling at all. Thanks and junk.

It may be hard to for you understand, but in Canada they have these education facitilies called Schools.
People called Students attend these facilities to learn.
At these educational facilities, you can learn about various things. One such thing is Time Zones.
Around the world, times differ depending on where you are located.
That means that the times people sleep vary as well.

Dude... a simple claim would have taken less time then the post you did make. Save this whiney brat shit for when you are actually deserving of the attitude.

Gorrad, you still haven't answered, athough it's clear to everyone what night you were targetted.
Also, not everyone might have a latent ability.

Clear to everyone? ha ha ha... Ahh... Just because Green treats me like an idiot doesn't make me one. Sorry more on this later...

And Gorrad already made it clear he felt he had a latent ability, so if he claims not to have had one activated then he will have to explain that.

Are you subtley trying to pair me with Green Crayons?

No, I've already tried to pair you two when I accused you of parroting him. But this statement in question has nothing what-so-ever to do with you. Although, yes, the implication is that the two of you would be scum buddies.

Contrary to popular belief, I am not a doctor.
I am a Nurse.
I have a 50% chance of saving my target, and 50% that my save will fail.
I targetted GLaDOS both nights.
(OhGodMyLife: Sorry if I included too much, this is my first role claim!)

nurse fits with the character. Character is in fact in the session, yet fails almost entirely to be anywhere included in the actual themed battle that is taking place. I mean, this isn't even the right sister that Chad saved. Claimed to have targeted the claimed bulletproof both nights, will have to check how you have treated Glad all game. And you have a severe lack of flavor...

You couldn't post this last night? It's like 5 sentences long... it would ahve taken you like 1 additional minute. And you stalled as long as you did today before doing it as well? ... *sigh* scum or town, that's bullshit. Learn to claim... seriously...

My thoughts, first opinions is it's a fabricated claim. The length of time it took to actually claim, the lack of flavor given, and the actual role he claimed all leads me to believe it's BS. but of course first opinions always have the greatest chance of being wrong so I'll give it a bit to settle in.

My theory is based on:
http://bleach.wikia.com/wiki/Karakura_Superheroes
Yes, the Karakura Superheroes.

The karakura super squad was not formed until season two unless I am mistaken meaning the likelyhood of it being any factor at all in this game is less then... well the odds that Green actually answers my questions for a change.

Now this is not evidence Don Kinonji or ichigo's sisters aren't int he set-up, but it is very unlikly their roles or appearance has anything to do with the game.

Korlash, I've noticed you've declined to comment on your steady push to lynch the obvDoc obvNurse on D2.

*checks watch* wow... you only gave me... - 2 days to respond to his claim before attacking me for it. How could I have waited so long to comment on it! /sarcasm

Either take the stick out of your ass or shove it in deeper. I don't care which but you have a fucking huge ass ego if you think you can accuse me of tunneling when you are attacking me for shit that hadn't even happened yet.

And here's a question, zee said I voted him and never mentioned him again, you say I 'steadily pushed his lynch" all day. one of you is lying. I'm too lazy to figure out which so I'm just going to assume it's you.

Oh, and because unlike you I actually ty to answer stuff asked of me, I disbelieve Zee's claim, so in my opinion I did not push the obv nurse, I pushed the obv lying scum. ;P Maybe i you keep looking you might find some real evidence to back up your 'case' on me.

Assuming my theory is incorrect, there is no other reason that Don Kanonki could be in this game.
Therefore, if everyone thinks my theory is incorrect, Xtoxm should be lynched.

Uh... Don has more right to be in this game then your character. at least he can see hollows, at least he fought them, at least he has spiritual power. You're character didn't do squat. Hell, both Ichigo's father and Orihime have more right to the protection roles then your character so even your ability sounds manufactured.

1) Nurse is an infamous fakeclaim for scum -

and for actual nurses...

2) He admitted to looking up his role on wikipedia (very much a scumtell imho)

it is if he had done it for the role, but he claims to have done it for his "theory" which is a little different.

3) He could easily have been setting himself up, hoping that Seraphim was town and that by getting the softclaim of a role linked to Seraphim done early, that Seraphim would semi-confirm him by his death. AKA what I said about Matsude, with one person being there as a townie and the rest being fakeclaims, could just as easily have him using one of the fakeclaims like Seraphim was.

I'm thinking the scum were just given similar Fakeclaims. I think this for the fact one scum claimed scum and the other person i think is now scum claimed a 'theory' that matches his claim and the dead scum's in a "group." It's possible the mod gave them three memebers of the superheros and told to use it as flavor. Then, Uryu and whatever character else is in it would help confirmt he story. However, as this isthe purest form of mod speculation I am hesitant to actually use it as an attack. I find it much better to just attack Zee's claim based on it's solo scumminess then try to link it to Sera.

Gorrad isn't lynched yet?

Kinda hard to lync him with the mountain of non good evidence you have presented. hell, what have you even done to promote his lynch? GC's stuff is all crap, but at least he is pushing him. What have you honestly done?

Also, because I feel it might be unfair for me to keep silent on this issue, the first thing I did was to check ZEEnon’s link for his picture to see if it came from the same website as my picture. It did not. ZEEnon’s picture in fact came from ZEEnon’s photobucket account, where he had 7 other recent photos with Yuzu in them. A few of those had other characters in them, but they all largely centered on Yuzu (except for one ‘family’ picture). Unfortunately I could not find a way to figure out what days ZEEnon uploaded the photos onto his account.

The mod has allowed me to post this since the information was fair game for anybody willing to do the research. I tend to think this supports his claim.

How does this support his claim? If anything, it seems to support its a lie. Perhaps I'm looking at it differently then you are.

]It would rather point to ZEEnon fabricating the pictures himself instead of copying the image link the moderator might or might not have sent him. In no way does this help prove or disprove his claim.

As for you Glados, you get no points for this. There is still a probability of ZEEnon being scum, or of some other interference you are unaware of.

... I suppose it's just as likely he posted the picture the way he didfor town reasons as for scum reasons. I can live with calling it a moot point.

*yawn*

So yeah, major issues here...

@ Zee: can you give us a run down of your flavor and respond to anything i have said in this post you feel needs responces to.

@ Gorrad: Dude... I'm sitting here with a plan that could possible half confirm you as town and you contiune to refuse to even rspond to it, I mean saying "no Korlash" woudl have at least been something. Complete denial of it though... that's whack man...

@ GC: seriously man, go fuck yourself. (I think I'm going to tone the Ad Hom back donw a bit from now on. This really isn't my 'thing' but I figured I'd appease you for a post. Now would you mind explaining how it is you expected me to have commented on my "pushing for the nurse's lynch" before the nurse even claimed? i mean regardless of how 'obvious' his role was to you, how is it you're attacking me for not taling about the doctor? I mean, that should get me a freaking townie of the year award.)

[Korlash]

Sorry for the double post but I don't want to waste time waiting for GC to respond before I ask these... So... yeah I'll just do them now.

First off, i'm going to do my best to not be an ass for this one post. All i ask is that you at least give some straight responces.

ok question 1:

Korlash, I've noticed you've declined to comment on your steady push to lynch the obvDoc obvNurse on D2.

How is it not pro-town to not comment on a player that is "assumed" doc/nurse effectively outing them in the process?

Question 2: why would I out of the blue comment on my own actions on day two? (I.E. Why is it thusly questionable I didn't? Was I asked by someone and failed to respond?)

Actual responce: I failed to comment on it because I was unaware I was expected to analyse and comment on my own posts. As far as it goes, I did not know zee was "the nurse" (or I should say claiming to be the nurse) on day two, so i fail to see how I was "pushing the lynch on the nurse" when at the time he was not the nurse but had the eact equal chance of being doc/nurse and scum.

Rebuttle: Why exactly did you find this so important as to bring it up as prematurely as you did? Why did you even ask seeing as how that statement litterally is you outing the doc to anyone who didn't already think that way? And what made Zee so "obv Doc"?

I feel my past post went a little to far off base on this subject which I find very important because I'm litterally confused by it more then I feel attacked by it. I'm confused as to why you brought it up so early, confused why you brought it up at all actually, and confused as to why you actually think it's a legitimate question at all. (I mean seriously, "I noticed you weren't commenting on your own posts from yesterday Korlash!"... I mean... dude the only answer I can think is "No duh, why would I comment on posts I know for certain came from town?"... )

And don't take this post the wrong way, I'm only making it because I want straight answers as fast as possible. Like I said, this whole thing is confusing as hell to me. I'd appologize for my last post, but I ave a sinking feeling I'll be calling you a moron again at some point in the future so I feel appologising now would just be wasteful.

[Korlash]

So you didn't read 668, 671 and 674? Awesome. Because those posts explain 1. why I thought that ZEE was the doctor and 2. why it was important to bring up the fact that ZEE was the doctor in regards to limiting our lynch perspective today to Korlash or Gorrad. Read the thread you hillbilly.

You're right I didn't read those. That at least checks off a couple questions...

No fucking way? Really? Be still my beating heart! I'm linking the fact that you and Gorrad wanted to lynch ZEE on D2 to the fact that ZEE is the doctor? Go figure. Of course I'm linking the two - it's the entire reason why I'm limiting my perspective to you two scumbags today.

... Dude this is complete Bullshit. He didn't claim until today, we weren't trying to lynch "the doctor" we were lynching someone who dropped a legitimate scumtell. You are a moron if you are "limiting yourself" to us off of this. What, we are scum who was told by the mod he was the doctor so we tried to lynch him for it? Is that what you are getting at?

Maybe you've forgotten what you asked. "Sorry, what? Did I miss something? Can't very well comment on something I have no knowledge about now can I? Are you saying you know who the doctor is?" I've already told you what you missed (twice - in post 697 and this post as well), you could have easily figured out ZEE had a doctor role from the hints he was dropping and goddamn right I figured out who the doctor was (just like DOS, just like any other rational players who has their eyes peeled). There's nothing left to answer.

Doesn't matter if I could have "figured it out" I'm not responding to questions about another person's role if they haven't claimed. I'm especially not going to discuss the doctor before he claimed either... Regardless of how obvious you think he might have been.

lololol hypocrite zone, incoming! I put off openly declaring ZEE was a doc for a while because I didn't want to expose the doctor. You know who gave me shit for doing that? You. You and DOS. So take your double standards and shove them you big fat hypocrite.

I gave you shit for not talking about the doctor? I find that hard to believe.... Hell I'll give you 50 to 1 odds that you can't even find a post of mine to back that up. Now of cours I'm sure I gave you shit for other things, but uh that doesn't make me a hypocrite.

lease reread all of today. You are now arguing for how is it that I'm not pro-town. Thank you.

Mr. Double negative learn to read.

How is it

not

pro-town to

not

comment on a player that is "assumed" doc/nurse effectively outing them in the process?

we can do this all day...

Because you were asked to do so? Town usually likes to be open with their motivation. Transparency is a good thing.

Where was I asked to do so? The first time it was ever brought to my attention was when you attacked me for "not commenting on it" implying I had reason to do so before the attack. And technically, that attack wasn't even a question, it was an observation. So it isn't really asking me to do so either.

After giving me lots of shit for not explaining why we should narrow our perspective down to a Gorrad or Korlash lynch today, your lack of a comment on me finally revealing the genesis of this dichotomy was incredibly suspicious. I was noting that you did not comment because of such.

...

Lack of a comment on you? Noting i did not comment because of such? What the hell are you talking about? It's kinda hard to stay mad at you when I can only understand every other paragraph you seem to write...

Let me try to see how much of this I grasp. You'r saying it's suspicious that I didn't comment on the thing that links me and Gorrad when I've been arguing I don't even get what you are talking about for the past page? So while I'm not understanding any of your posts, I'm also expected to comment on other things and move discussion forward while being confused? Ha ha ha... You're funny man.

And to be honest with you this post of yours is the first time I can remember seeing you actually labeling me and Gorrad together on the zee thing. (The links you posted earlier not withstanding.)

Now of course this "dictonomy" of yours pairing me with gorrad works with you and zee today. Just becuase we voted the same way? yeah, that won't make infinit pairings in every mafia game. *roles eyes*

So you're "theory" is that all three scum were on zee? Because we all knew he was the doctor? Wow... just wow man... keep up the good work and maybe you'll get a cookie!

Really? You think ZEE has exactly an equal chance of being doc/nurse as being scum? It's a 50/50 possibility where we could just flip a coin?

No, had. Yesterday. When I was actually pushing his lynch. He dropped the doctor/scum tell in the begining of day 2. In fact according to him that's the only thing I ever attacked him for, so to me, yesterday, he ha a 50/50 shot at being either.

You seem to be putting knowledge we know today into play in the past in situations where not knowing the knowledge is an important detail. Pushing a lynch on a doctor is a bad thing to do, unless you don't kow he is the doctor for instance. In which case if there is sufficient reason to think he is scum, or as I said I felt an equal doc/scum chance, then it's not really that big a problem.

I am a Ghost Boy. I am scared and being chased by Hollows.
I have a passive ability that I do not want to claim at the moment.
My win condition is when the town has eliminated all of its threats.

Hmm... You know seeing as how my character wasn't even part of the main battle royal I'm guessing it's likely there are others as well. Seeing as how I'm a ghost as well it's kinda proof they exist. The flavor at least makes sense. (Although he was only chased by one hollow, not hollows)

I can buy it for now. Although there's really nothing in the claim you couldn't have just pulled from the thread at some point.

I had to clarify with the moderator. I am allowed to post the original picture.
I have no idea how to re-write the flavor so that it isn't quoted word for word.
Basically i'm the daughter residing in the Kurosaki Clinic. I often fill in as the nurse.

I find it really hard to believe you're flavor kinda outlines your ability. Does anyone elses? I can't tell if Greens does as he never said his ability, but my little bit of flavor is just about being stuck as a parakeet and doesn't mention anything relating to my active or passive ability. I find it hard to believe my flavor (and what looks to be greens...) would be as simple as this yet zee's isn't something along the lines of "you are ichigo's sister" or soemthing simple like that. Unless he's saying this is actually flavor of the ability... and not of the name...

You might want to get to claiming soon.

I have to agree... Gorrad should probably go next. Then possible Jebus...

Korlash, what do you mean for your plan? Claiming when you targetted me? I didn't get any latent abilities activated. I don't think you're lying, but I didn't.

What is it that made you think you had a latent ability then? Can you include this with your claim, thanks!

[Korlash]

EBWOP: That partially bolded quote was said by me not GC... Although I'm sure we can all live with it.

[Korlash]

I feel dumb... i almost asked who claimed cop. X.x been a long day...

Again on limited time, I saw the Korlash claim, and I've a feeling I smell bs. Will explain when I get time.

If you have a problem with my claim say it. And how can you have a feeling you smell BS? Either you do or you don't...

Look, I'm mafia trying to look like a town!

... I mean that just kinda says it all... No matter how you come at me with that, I rebuttle with this. it's a stand off. It is kinda scummy you are attacking me for "trying to lynch the doc" by using a sentence out of yoru own post yet missing this one.

Either way, players don't congratulate the doctor anymore. It puts a big fat target on their head (

by the town if they're scum

; by scum if they're the doctor)

Until he actually flips nurse this right here is as likey as the second part. Again, stand off.

You gave me shit for not revealing why I supported the Korlash/Gorrad dichotomy. I ultimately revealed it to be because ZEE was obviously a doctor. Now, you want to make the defense "Oh, I didn't want to talk about roles - especially THE DOCTOR - before they outed themselves!" legitimate for your use. But not my own. Even though it is. Exactly. What. I. Did.

First off, the shit I gave you for not revealing the Dictonomy is justified. Secondly, I'm not trying to use that as a defense. Don't misunderstand my posts, I'm not. I honestly didn't notice you ever said you felt Zee was the doctor, and I honestly find it hard to believe any town would say that, and so I've been asking you why you think not talking about the doctor is such a scummy thing to do.

And the difference between what you did, and what I've been saying is you also called people scum without providing a reason, which is a scummy action in it's own right. I mean hell, you should have made something up if you were trying to protect the doctor. By doing what you did, even though it is arguably for the town to have not mentioned it, you look like you backtracked to find a pull a reason for what you did.

English isn't your first language, is it? That would explain this consistent missing of the mark.

When you ask someone "How is it not this?" You're asking someone to prove that "this" is in the negative because you believe "this" to be in the positive. Therefore, "You are now arguing for how is it that I'm not pro-town" is saying that you are now arguing for someone to explain to you that I am not pro-town (to prove that "this" is negative) because you believe me to be pro-town (that "this" is in the positive).

Now that you mention it English was my worst subject in school. Spelling and grammer mostly.

How is it not pro-town to not comment on a player that is "assumed" doc/nurse effectively outing them in the process?

"How is it anti-town to not comment on a player... yadda yadda..."

And I'm not talking about you, I'm talking about me. You are attacking me for not commenting on Zee as the doctor, so I'm asking you how that is anti-town. This has nothing to do with you hiding your feelings on zee during the dictonomy scandal. In my mind, you did talk abotu the doctor and so this comment would never be directed at you. I suppose this is a common misunderstanding on your part and mislabeling on my part so I'm trying my best to keep this unsarcastic and clean.

Noting aloud other player's observations is now qualified as an "attack?"

It was an attack and to call it anything different is ubserd. You 'noted' it a long freaking time in advance from when it should have actually been noted, and then after zee actually claimed you didn't even allow me time to post, thusly allowing me the chance TO comment on it, even though I wouldn't have. The point is, it's not an observation, it was an attack.

Are you saying this was not an attack on me then?

It's suspicious that after all the bluster about how I didn't reveal why I thought the two of you should be the only two candidates for a lynch today, that when I finally did (ZEE was obviously a doctor role and yet you/Gorrad were voting him for the entirety of yesterday) you were completely silent on the matter. That is what makes you suspicious in this one instance. That said, I haven't caught anything from Gorrad because his slimy self is trying to sneak beneath the radar?

Dude... As obvious as your dictonomy to you was I didn't even know that this is what linked me and Gorrad until we started this argument. And at that point I was too into trying to work out the parts I was confused about to comment on anything else really. hell I even missed the posts AFTER you linked them to me. I mean... Seriously it's impossible for me to comment on something I had overlooked.

Now, at this point and time I don't want to comment on it. The 'dictonomy' (seriously starting to hate this word...) isn't half bad, Zee was the opposing wagon to Sera (proven scum) and I was arguing Sera as scum with my vote on zee. I hardly think this 'links' me and gorrad, however I do understand why you feel one of us is town and the other is scum.

However again, this also rests on zee being town. If he is lying scum, then the whole thing flies out the window. Again, unprovable until Zee flips.

Now you can continue with your 'dictonomy', just keep in mind should Gorrad ever flip town there is no proof the other scum didn't all Bus Sera yeterday.

You fail reading comprehension. You really, really do. And it's incredibly aggravating.

That was a completely sarcastic sentence. I know you have been pushing an either/or on me and Gorrad not a scum pair. It's nice to know I can get under your skin so easily.

But on that note:

ZEE is the doctor. Or, if he isn't, he been acting like he is the doctor

You admit right here there is a chance he isn't the doctor and has simply been setting up a fakeclaim, kinda proving that pushing his lynch still had merit. His wagon started out by saying "You are either the doctor or scum" if scum, he would have started droppign doctor hints from that point forward. if you can find me one of the "tells" he dropped prior to his doctor comment then I'm willing to listen, otherwise his wagon was as justified as anything else.

- and to the outside observer it's one and the same.

It is not... I will never believe a doctor who is "acting like a doctor." Never. That is the surest sign of scum dropping hints of being the doctor. Any doctor who makes it "obvious" to anyone he is the doctor is stupid and deserves the mislynch, granted I'd like to do everything to prevent said mislynch in any hypothetical senario.. If I call someone out for being either "scum or the doctor" and he starts dropping tells of being the doctor, I'm going to lean scum. Any real doctor would try to move conversation and tells AWAY from the doc so as not to out himself. again, if you can show me any place before this zee ever 'acted like the doc' I'm more willing to believe he may be the actual nurse.

If you are scum, then you would know that he wasn't scum and, coupled with the doctor hints/tells, you would have had a pretty good incentive to see him to the gallows.

So you're arguing I am scum off something that is only scummy if I am scum?... *sigh* And if I was scum i would have known he was the doctor the second he said what he said in the begining of day 2, I wouldn't have needed any other "doctor hints/tells". And as WIFOM as it is I would not have passed over the doc during the night, especially if my kill had failed the night before. I mean... that's just stupid... The only reason to pass up killing the doctor is if either he thinks you are town or you can set up a mislynch from leaving him alive... wait... hmmm... That's sounds familiar... Granted I think if you were scum you would probably have killed him and just made this case anyways... Unless he's your scum buddy... Which would provide how you knew he was going to claim doctor, and why you were so ready to believe it even though you admitted more then once he had a chance of not being the doctor as well. Regardless, on of you would need to flip first anyways.

So you don't take issue with Korlash's second Spirit Enabler with the Cop/Nurse/Role Helper set up?

I've been wondering why I'm not getting any real attacks from him as well... In Insane this happened as well. The guy with my same role just auto seemed to believe me. Either he truely believes me, which would make him town, or he doesn't want me to be lynched and then have to face the "what if there is only one spirit enabler?" questions afterwards, which would make him scum.

I myself don't see the point of a spirit enabler, much less two, when a character claiming to be "more then meets the eye" doesn't have a latent ability. Although, theoretically... Glad could become full immune instead of one shot, Zee could possibly become 100%, you could theoretically gain some actual ability, and Phily could have become some additional cop (Role to both role and alignment, or alignment to role for instance.) but that's unprovable now...

Question 1: On mafiascum, does a person know if they are jailed?
Question 2: Is the targetted player allowed to preform their night action?

Sometimes and no.

As I mentioned before, yupp.

Would you mind telling us what exactly after the massclaim is finished. (If we are in fact massclaiming)

Waiting on claims from Albert B. Rampage, Jebus, and Mastin. I don’t particularly care what order so long as we get them quickly. We also need to get targets from Korlash and Xtoxm. Every player in the game has had the opportunity to say whether they had their latent abilities activated and none have done so. For the record – as I do not believe I have said it explicitly – I have been given no indication that my latent powers, if any, have been activated.

As I said before my ability is "Spirit Enabling Attachment". I attached mysef to Gorrad Night one and have remained "attached" to him. If he had a latent ability it would have been activated then and stayed activated for night two. I cannot self unattach. I am stuck to Gorrad until he dies or I die, and yes I understand how this means I can't very well confirm myself tonight. Although for the record I am now in favor of allowing Xtoxm to live through tonight in order to help confirm himself.

I asked Gorrad to claim before me because he made it clear he felt he had a latent ability, he also said he "believed I was town" in responce to something that made me think he did in fact get a latent ability activated and thus believed my claim. i also knew I had made it obvious when I had targeted, so i felt if he was scum he would have claimed to have been targeted night one and not night two, while if he was town he would have know he had had it activated both nights.

Also, I don't believe Gorrad. PhilyEc obviously got a result.
If Gorrad roleblocks at the same time, he would not have gotten one.
Now can we lynch him?

Another player playing the "obvious card"... It's not "obvious" it's your assumption. However, i have heard players say it appears Phily got a result on Albert... i still think it's dumb to assume something like that but if a couple people think it then I can live with a combined assumption. I have some questions regarding Gorrad's role, more to come on him later...

I can use Six Rods Prison of Light to Jailkeep one person a night. I targetted Philly N1, Korlash N2. My role PM mentions, and I can't quote of course, that there's more to me than meets the eye.

Did she use Six Rods prison in season one? I don't honestly know when she actually used it... It just seems out of place in this game.

I'm also seriously pissed off... I got no ability flavor... My ability was outlined in plan english to mafia language with not themed words or phrases at all. Did anyone else get an ability with some sort of bleach lingo in it? I mean Sera claimed his ability mentioned "spirit threads" and he was lying. Can anyone confirm this?

Also Gorrad, can you give us a run down of the actual flavor Bio you were given? Thanks.

First impressions is 50/50. i'll wait for responces.

[Korlash]

why did you pick Phily night 1?

[Korlash]

Also how is "Hi GC" asking him if "anything happened"? And hos is his responce "no"?

[Korlash]

actually that's a very good point... He even said he uses jailkeeper as a RB... so the lack of a nightkill should have resuled in something...

Gorrad, rebuttle?

[Korlash]

I JK'd Phily due to gut. Only gut. When, as soon as day started, two people came on the scene doing one of the scumtells I put the most stock in I decided that my 50% chance could wait and that it would be better for me to hold off on a claim and attack those that I thought scummy rather than rely on night actions. I expected to use my action as a trump card to foil a later claim, though obviously that didn't happen.

But that doesn't jive with:

I targetted Philly due to a gut feeling at the time, and ZEE because I thought that he was the most scummy. I tend to use Jailkeeper roles primarily as blockers rather than protectors.

You say right there you use jailkeeper roles primarily as roeblockers, meaning the firs thing that should have popped in your mind was "dude... no night kill... /attack phily!"

And there is no reason for you to have claimed, but you still should have pressured and attacked Phily. Hell, you say you were saving it to use to foil a claim... yet what did you do to ever make that claim happen? And saying what Zee was more important then your own night action is dumb. It's called multitasking, you attack both at once.

[Korlash]

Korlash: Don't you feel stupid, backing up scum for the second time in a row?

When was the first time I backed up scum? And no, after Gorrad claimed I outed him as scum so I don't feel dumb in the slightest.

Korlash: Did you target me during the night?

Yes...

Albert B. Rampage and Green Crayons still need to claim. Korlash needs to claim targets, and Xtoxm needs to claim his target from last night.

I already claimed targets.

No fair! Players are not supposed seem this pro-town! Unvote .

Just because you can't manage it doesn't mean others aren't allowed.

[Korlash]

Oh right:

@: Jebus, not really anything to say actually. Nothing in that post seemed to be an atack or even directed at me... so yeah...

@ Glad: How many people were pressing you to claim when you did? And did you do that day 2 or day 3?

[Korlash]

Oh hey by the way Apparently my attachment to you was unsucessful there Zee... I should read my inbox before posting I think. Either you're untargetable or I was blocked in some form or fashion.

More @ Glad: Seems you claimed day 3, still would like to know how "Pressured" you felt when you claimed though. It does seem out of the blue.

As far as who the scum are I pretty much think it's boiled down to a pool of like 5. Which boils down to like three to me. Glad's claim is starting to look a little bit bad for her the more I look at it. (and the comment about not thinking Phily got a guitly on Gorrad doesn't help) And both Jebus and Zee have jumped out as possible blockers against me but I'm not putting too much scope in that. The other two from town's perspective are probably me and ABR simply becuase he hasn't claimed yet and out of Xtoxm and me I think I'm the more likely looking scum.

As Glad said anyone voting her should explain night 1 and I will once she answers my question.

[Korlash]

And K, you did nothing against Gorrad, you didn't even vote him.

No, becuase everytime I go to work you guys lynch them. And I did do something, I called his claim fake based on his flavor. Although you're the one who outed his ability and target as fake though so I'm thinking you kinda sealed the deal there.

I still do not think PhilyEc had a guilty result on Gorrad. The fact that Gorrad turned out to be scum does not mean that PhilyEc magically also investigated him. If you believe PhilyEc had a guilty on Gorrad, then I would like to see your argument.

Seeing as how Gorrad was the Godfather i don't think he had a guilty... Which is why this statement of yours stuck out to me. It doesn't really prove anything really, but human nature is making me wonder if you actually knew gorrad was the GF and thus was investigation immune.

While I wouldn't put it past the mod to not add in a protective role simply to mess with the game's meta, that would mean he put us against scum + SK with no protection (which stinks). I'm betting we have a protection role. ZEE hasn't be countered in his claim. He's the most confirmed player, in my opinion.

That's actually a good point. Especially with two empowered scum and a GF. It is possible of having no protection if like one of the latent ability people is a protective role but... Yeah I tink we should have a protection role in this set-up. I guess I can write zee off then.

Green Crayons, just to be clear: are you claiming that being a miller (as you suspect) is a passive ability? And you are also claiming that your passive ability is not set forth for you in a straightforward manner (i.e. you are not told exactly what your ability does)? I am just trying to be clear on this because my passive ability is very straightforward, and not really subject to interpretation.

For the record my passive ability is "cursed" which kinda fits with Greens. And mine was fairly clear cut. Once again I reiterate I have no bleach themed flavor in my ability... Do you? I mean I suppose it's possible but if he is a miller why doesn't it just say "any investigations against you will come up as guilty" or something. That would kinda match how mine is phrased.

My bad Korlash, I missed something in the mason QT.

...ok... I've stopped questioning you a long time ago...

So can anyone else confirm or deny bleach lingo in their abilities? I've kinda been asking this for a while and a simple yes or no will suffice...

For the record, this would be the bleach lingo in the flavor:

My passive ability is Hunted, and the effect is that because I'm being so closely

stalked by hollows

, their

foul reiatsu is overshadowing my own

[paraphrased].

Both Gorrad and Sera had messed up flavor, amoung other things. So I still think it's a good line of attack and a good thing to watch out for.

As for my passive ability, I still believe it's best I don't talk about it.

Also apparently I missed two pages of late game yesterday... wow... I didn't even know you guys wanted me to target Zee... Usually I get unlucky with night targets... Whew... good job Korlash... But it would probably be best to go process that stuff as it has claims in it... *sigh*...

[Korlash]

I'm cool with that providing you can answer me one more question. Was the mention of Spirit energy in your ability or was it in your general character flavor?

[Korlash]

Fine then i can't ignore that both scum had messed up flavor and now so does Green.

I was going to vote him although taking another look at my PM "latent spiritual powers" are technically bleach flavor... so... that could explain it, I'm not giving up on it yet though.

GC, Comments on the fact that ABR, Xtoxm, and Myself were all given "spirit power" yet you came at us with reiatsu?

[Korlash]

Since we can apparently claim the names for passive abilities (I am inferring this from both Green Crayons’ and Korlash’s claims), mine is “Remarkable Endurance.” So to answer your question: Not really. I have nothing about reiatsu, hollows, kido(u), ‘spirit threads’, or the like.

What I'm getting at is there are two different ways your ability can be worded.

Mafia lingo: The first nightkill attempt on you will fail.

Bleaach lingo: Your impressive size and strength combined with your armor will allow you to survive the first night kill attempt made on you.

There is a vast difference when you really thing about it and seeing as how me and GC as so closely rlated characterwise I can't understand why this difference would exist between the two of us.

I see no reason for people to be hiding things at this stage of the game. In all probability, we only need one more correct lynch to win. I see no benefit in withholding information if it could in any way be helpful. It is not as if people are going to be using this information to make a fake-claim.

The information I am withholding I do not find helpful to the town at all. It has yet to come into effect so there is no way to confimr or deny it. There's no unexplained instances that it would answer. And WCS it may be twisted back around on me in an effort to lynch me which I'm not worried about but I just don't see the point in giving info that will only serve to inform scum and increase the odds of a town mislynch.

If there is an actual reason I should claim it aside from just general information sharing I'll do it. But if that's all... it's not worth it. I'd rather keep it hidden to hopefully help make use of it later.

[Korlash]

Ok then I'll nix that line of thought. I'm still not liking his use of the word reiatsu but as ABR said it is a pretty moot point when it's by itself.

[Korlash]

Albert B. Rampage has said that he has gotten to start a QuickTopic with ZEEnon, presumably during Night Three. This heavily suggests against the possibility of a Role-Blocker. If there were a Role-Blocker, our Mod would presumably have waited until night ended to make sure that Xtoxm was not role-blocked. (I would further presume our Mod would take such a precaution if the Mafia Redirector was still alive.)

Unless the RBer sent in his target first... in which case the mod wouldn't have had to wait.

Additionally, I think that having both a Mafia Redirector and a Mafia Role-Blocker is simply ridiculously powerful, especially against a Serial Killer with no known advantages.

How so? Town has a cop and doc and tracker and two spirit enablers and a bulletproof... and masons... Two scum power roles don't seem like too much of a stretch.

And I have been also thinking about the precense of a mafia JK of sorts. As Gorrad fakeclaimed that power it is possible he could have had that power on his side to help confirm himself later on. Although that would beg the question as to the JK didn't prevent the mason thing. BTW, this is all assuming if such a role existed the scum would have targeted Zee last night.

In deathnote the Masonizer was unblockable, so the same role could have been applied here making the target go through even if Zee had "JKed". I still think a simple mafia RBer makes more sense though.

2.) If there is no such role-blocker, then this puts Korlash's failed target of ZEEnon into some question. If Albert B. Rampage believes he has a reason for why Korlash would fail with targeting ZEEnon (as he seems to suggest) I would quite like to hear it. I am already concerned that he was able to "attach" himself onto Gorrad (Godfather) but not ZEEnon (claimed Nurse).

Which explains why the scum choose to block me. I look like such an easy mislynch on the surface no? Hell there's plenty of circumstancial evidence already out there. Combine that with my ability failing and with how many people wanted me lynched yesterday anyways it's a no brainer I'm being set-up. Unless this is all some sort of WIFOM on my part but I'm not really known for stooping this low when fakeclaiming.

3.) This also makes me wonder about Gorrad's theory of "negative enabling" which he failed to explain -- perhaps the scum need to use their own enabler so that the other scum can use their special powers (i.e. Redirecting, Godfather) at all.

... Now your just assuming the scum would bring up subjects that are true for no reason at all. Gorrad fakeclaiming JK when they really have a Jker makes sense because it's his way of coering his ass if asked to prove his role. To bring up a "negative enabler" only served to put doubt on me and Xtoxm, I hardly think one exists. Although I won't completely ignore the possibility, I just don't see any real evidence to suggest it. (I'm assuming any town enablers would activate the scum's latent abilities. I've also been assuming scum just didn't have any latent abilities and the enablers targeting them was just a waste of their action. Thusly, helping to balance having two of them.)

Note that if this theory is correct, it is very thematically similar to SPQR Mafia, where the Mafia had to keep a certain member alive in order to nightkill at all, and it had to keep the other two members of the Mafia alive in order to fulfill it's win condition. In this game, the mechanic would simply be that the Mafia needs to keep one of their members alive (their Enabler) to even get to use their special abilities.

It just doesn't make sense with the theme. I mean what Hollow's ability was to strengthen other hollows? Grand Fisher had his doll, that is where he gets his GF ability and Chandolier could control others, thusly redirecting what they do. They didn't need any help from anyone else to do those things.

4.) What happens if Xtoxm and Korlash target the same person? Would Xtoxm's role take precedence such that Korlash would not need to "attach" to somebody, or would he attach even though he would not really be enabling? Note that this might explain Korlash's failed targeting, but this would necessitate Xtoxm's role to act before Korlash's role.

based on logic his ability becomes moot. Like a JK and a RB targeting the same person. It doesn't matter which happens first, all that is important is that in the end the JK's ability will still be active. Much like with me and Xtoxm. it doesn't matter what he does, unless I fail in some way I will remain attached to the player. My attachment lasts AFTER the night, so it makes no sense that it would fail simply because another enabler also targeted the same person.

As I understand, Xtoxm has claimed a "one-night stand" ability, whereas Korlash has claimed an "attached until death" ability.

Sounds about right...

[Korlash]

No, latent abilities are revealed on death.

Damn, yet another obvious point you noticed and I failed to grasp even the slightest. You are rapidly becoming one of my favorite players... ;_; Can I have your autograph? Make it out to "BWAHAHAHAHAHA.... AHAHAHA... Jones"

[Korlash]

I don't consider the GF to be a power role because it is so common and doesn't really "do" anything. But yes, it is a power role and I should count it.

Situation A: Serial Killer v Mafia Redirector = Mafia Redirector wins (i.e. redirect the Serial Killer onto themselves while nightkilling them); and
Situation B: Serial Killer v Mafia Role-Blocker = Mafia Role-Blocker wins (i.e. role-block the Serial Killer while nightkilling them).

In effect, such a set-up would be giving the Mafia two distinct ways to completely diffuse the Serial Killer.

So what? How many possibilities are there for night actions? And how many of those have every single town willy nilly not doing anything while both scum teams focus primarily with the other? None...

You are completely overlooking the town here. The town has equal ways to diffuse the SK (Tracker, Doc, Bulletproof, and cop if he would have found SK's guilty) are you saying one of them is lying? Becuase that makes either you or Zee the lying scum... And... I doubt zee will be lynched before you.

I don't think the mod balances the mafia out based entirely on how much they do or do not screw over the SK.

Every single power role gets screwed over when you put them against three. It's a rediculus argument from you and I'm really surprised you even made it. It's really making me wonder why you are going through so much to disprove a mafia RBer theory. You know... like maybe you were hoping to use it's ability to cast doubt on me for instance...

[Korlash]

Korlash, do you always know who you are attached to? For example, if you had been redirected on Night One to Albert B. Rampage, would you still be attached to him right now, and would you even know it? What if you were redirected to target yourself?

I was not told whether or not I had been attached to "gorrad" personally. But when I got my fialed result pm last night I was told specifically that I was unattached to anyone. If I had been redirected, whoever I had been redirected to must have died. I'm just going to assume I wasn't redirected.

Simply put, ZEEnon doesn't have a latent ability. That's why Korlash failed.

Gorrad didn't have a latent ability but I still attached to him. That can't be the reason I failed.

[Korlash]

*yawn*

You go ahead and push my lynch there Zee, just don't act surprised when I come up town and you take heat for being the guy who roleblocked me just to make me a mislynch target.

I don't really care who is lynched first between Jebus and Glad. As far as I know Jebus is the ONLY claimed vanilla... The only other possible vanillia role was Mastin which doesn't help that Jebus only claimed his role after Mastin was killed. And the fact Mastin said his flavor matched Sera's kinda tells me he had some indication of being something other then vanilla. I mean the way Mastin was talking I almost started calling him a tracker right there, I can't believe it's just coincidence he happened to be one.

Based on that I'd give it pretty good odd's Jebus's claim is a manufactured one based on Mastin's role.

I've lessened on how much I disbelieve Glad. I don't find it too suspicious only Chad is in the game. I mean both sisters are in the game but Jinka isn't. Why? Uryu is... And technicaly my role, the SK role, and Chad all fit together anyway. So really it's not impossible. As Gorrad said it's possible the mod put a main character in to help strengthen the Rukia safeclaim.

The biggest downside to her right now is the fact she is using night 1 as kinda a main defense. I mean the odds scum no killed is pretty high actually. Sera's fakeclaim = hider, a no kill strengthens his claim, Gorrad's fakeclaim = JK, a no kill strengthens his as well. Theoetically, if Glad is scum a no kill strengthens her claim too. A no kill on night one would have been a trifecta of believability for the scum in this scenario. And with the SK dead, it's not like the scum were really sweating going into night or anything.

I don't get why GC is one of Zee's biggest suspicions. I thought the two of them were on the same page for most of the game. Whatever... it seems everything zee does is suspicious to me now a days...

[Korlash]

My passive ability is "cursed" any nightkill that targets me is passed along to whoever I am attached to.

I really don't like how ABR keeps jumping around but to be honest with three straight days of seeing scum hang I'm not too bent out of shape over my mislynch. I'd rather see Glad or Jebus or perferably GC but... Hell I'm just tired of being in a game with Zee to really care one way or another.

I would however think it best to say WHY I'm scum before you lynch me so that the scum amoung you can't "wing it" tomorrow. I think that's acceptable no?

[Korlash]

Shit, Jebus has already been lynched.
I really believed him as town too ... Oh well, no perfect record.

Yeah because mislynching me makes it all the more perfect?

But that was four wasn't it... Well he has the claim and the lurking against him and I don't see how POE discounts him as town. I find him the most likely scum so awesome. Ironically if he does flip scum this will spark the first game in which I thought all mafia were scum and didn't vote any of them. Ha ha ha... ahhh... Who else but Korlash?!?

[Korlash]

Wootness <3 you Glad! Totally said I prefered GC yesterday... <.< Ahh but no seriously I did nothing this game!

Um... Really kinda sad I was so off on the set-up... I mean I figured I would have at least guessed the scum right... but no... oh well...

@ Zee: Were you really a nurse then? Or just a masonable person?

And yeah, GG to all and to all a good night...

@ Gorrad: I enjoyed it as well we should do it again sometime... There's allways Yu Yu hakusho, or Trigun, or Outlaw star... Dot hack... Get backers... yeah... plenty of possibilities out there...

[Korlash]

... Well at least my feelings on you are justified then... lying town... harmph...

And yeah, there will always be acceptions to the rule. Nothing in this game is every case closed perfect.

[Korlash]

Or Cowboy Bebop... Or Desert Punk...

Now I'm just embarrasing myself... Next I'll be saying Zoids and Outlaw Star... quick someone shoot me...

[Korlash]

"Look, Korlash, get the facts straight. I WAS A VANILLA TOWNIE. JEBUS CLAIMED THE SAME, IN THE EXACT SAME WAY.
I didn't think Seraphim was clear. The way his claim was worded was the same way mine was, and Albert's, and dozens of others.
Furthermore, I SAID JEBUS IS CLEAR. I didn't say the same for Seraphim. I said his matched mine, not that he was clear. I said that Jebus's was a nearly identical to mine, and that he WAS CLEAR.

I said that I was a vanilla, but told everyone why I thought there might've been a hint of further abilities.

You fail to notice the key factors in his claim. For one he DID NOT MATCH YOU... He said he had no mention of any secondary abilities. This was a key difference from yours. This very fact made it impossible to clear him off your claim regardless of anything.

Secondly YOU had been Nightkilled. It was very likely he killed you so that he could fake claim a mimic of your role. You're claim and role played no part in Jebus's claim and role in any way shape or form.

[Korlash]

"I'm Mizuiro Kojima. There's nothing in my role PM that suggests I am anything but vanilla townie."

My role claim, basically, would've been

"I'm Kiego. Nothing in my role PM says that I'm anything but vanilla townie, although there's a hint as to what I might be."

The only thing different was the latent abilities, which was the only difference.

I was a townie. I just had latent abilities.
Jebus was a townie. He didn't have such luck.

That is a big difference. And what your role claim "basically" would have been doesn't really fly. if you want to argue the exact phrasing you and he used I'm all for it, but boiling your claim down to some new statement and excpecting it to work in this argument is just dumb.

As Albert said, Jebus would've never night-killed me. And later on, if this were the case, why didn't Jebus bring it up? In your Jebuscum-scenario, after he failed to bring it up, why would he have killed his one supporter?

Why would Jebus have not killed you? If he was scum trying to find a player to mimic a role from you seemed the least likely risk. In my hypothetical of Jebus scum killing you to frame your role to his fakeclaim makes perfect sense him killing you. And he failed to bring what up?

Jebus's accidental lynch was the only thing which I consider to have been an error in the game. The Korlash imaginary (As Jebus had been lynched, hence, it never happened) bandwagon would've been something which I would have accepted as an alternative that would've left us with the same outcome (although in actuality, had I been left alive, I would've pushed hard for GLaDOS's lynch--a different outcome, as there'd be nothing to vig Green n4 and we'd lynch him d5).

seeing as how my lynch gave the same outcome in every sense, would you have considered it an error as well?

[Korlash]

This ONLY works up if he ACTUALLY brought it up. He didn't. So, if the one scenario that makes him scum doesn't make sense...what makes him scum?
Seeing my train of thought on the matter, now?

Not really. What's the time span between when he claimed and when I first brought up the chance of it being faked specifically off yours?

Your hypothetical Jebuscum scenario has him killing me, and then bringing up the fact that he is clear, via me having a nearly identical roleclaim. He failed to bring this argument up at all, and that's the only motivation he would've had to kill me.

You're missing the point. He wouldn't have been cleared either way. The point was to make a convinsing fakeclaim, not clear himself. I mean even in what really happened he wasn't cleared. You claimed and died before he even claimed. The fact his claim held similar traits to yours in no way cleared him. The only thing that your role did to his was set up roots that made his at least make sense.

Take both Gorrad and Sera. You can't tell me their claims were not a huge factor in their death. It makes perfect sense to expect the last scum to try and be a little more careful in what he claims. In the hypothetical where Jebus was the scum him killing you to create a solid ground on which to make the rest of the town believe a vanilla claim is possible. And thus Jebus was in no way "cleared."

No, actually. I would've considered it the correct course of action, if I knew that GLaDOS was very probable town. Due to her being the only major character in the game, I didn't, and due to me being killed, I thought it was her, so if she were to have been lynched, Then we would've had a day five--but said day five would've led to a Green Lynch, anyway--Albert and Zee were confirmed, Jebus was confirmed to me, I knew I was innocent, X was confirmed through Albert...

... actually without your death you can't even ague not lynching Jebus as the false "clearing" of him you are arguing rests on you being proven town. So in this hypothetical situation there is no reason to expect the town to have lynched GC over Jebus. And this is totally ignoring nightkills as well.

I still find it hard you call lynching Jebus which won us the game 2 days earlier then what you are arguing is ok above a failure. My lynch should have resulted int he same thing so I still don't see why lynching me is fine but lynching Jebus, who was in no way cleared on anything, is some great failure upon the rest of us.

No matter who we would've lynched amongst the three of Korlash, GLaDOS, and Jebus, we would've won. Had I been alive, it would've likely been through a lynch day five, had it been you, Korlash, an identical outcome to what the Jebus lynch did would've happened.

... You have like two big issues to deal with here. 1 the fact you hold yourself so high above the others that you being alive would have been the key difference in changing the outcome of the day. And 2 that GC would have ever been lynched. ESPECIALLY if me and Glad were lynched/killed becuase we were two of the biggest against him. If we count in nightkills by that time two more people would have been killed, probably zee and you leaving ABR GC and Xtoxm... and... who do you think get's lynche out of those three?

It's all really a pointless argument, over such a small point.

Yeah well I find it a bit wrong for a dead guy to come in yelling abotu how the rest of us were failures and if you had been alive the game would have been so drastically different. Especially when I think you're wrong on so many things...

Really I'm just bored and love to argue with people.

[Korlash]

He claimed day three, BEFORE I had, Korlash. I'm one of the people who ASKED him to claim. :/

Oh? Well then I guess I should pay more attention before running my mouth. I thought he claimed at the start of day 4... But no he did claim near the end of day 3... if I had bothered to fact check that it would have factored into my thoughts of him yesterday. I still would have been ok with his lynch though because it would still make sense that he as scum would have watned to kill you that night to prevent you from saying anything about his claim. Although granted i wouldn't have felt as strongly as I did about it then.

No, he claimed, and then I told the town that he was confirmed and then I, myself, claimed to explain why. Obviously, your memory on such events is rather poor. That's why I was SCREAMING at my monitor to have you people read my posts--not read my thoughts, POSTS. I had stated in-thread after Jebus claimed that he was clear. Not just randomly claimed and got night-killed due to it.

There is still no way you could clear him. He gave no flavor in his claim all he did was say "I'm this guy and I'm vanilla"... Even if it matched your role it didn't clear him any.

Day four, any lynch other than Green.
Green kills, GLaDOS doesn't vig Green for whatever reason (like, say, GLaDOS was lynched).

Day five (One day later), we likely lynch Green, the last unconfirmed in the game. (X enabling Albert, Albert confirming ZEE and himself as masons, Me confirming Jebus, Jebus--if paying attention--confirming me)

It was a failure because, as GLaDOS stated, there were two possible targets for her during the night: Green, and you. Had you been lynched, it would've left only Green. A success, 100% of the time.

Had GLaDOS been lynched, admittedly, it would've left you and Green, but I think everyone made it rather clear how they were willing to lynch you first.

Anyway, if I were to have lived through the night, my suspicions of GLaDOS would've been lessened, so I might not have lynched GLaDOS, anyway.

Ok in one spot you argue a hypothetical which ignores me and then in the next you make it clear I would have been lynched first anyways. Meaning we lynch Glad, then me, then Green... which makes my statement of 2 days earlier true... Hmmm... Now you're just arguing for the sake of it and not to actually make any real points.

And once again, neither you nor Jebus confirmed the other. In fact, if both of you had been alive I would have argued the remaining scum between the two of you. You had made it pretty obvious to me you were a tracker (even if that was not your intention) so when looking at one of you being vanilla adn the other a tracker I would have felt one of you were obviously lying. Now of course this would have all been made under the misconception of me thinking you were a tracker and when you corrected that I probably would then have argued you were scum for giving those fake tracker hints in an attempt to set up a fakeclaim.

In retrospect I'm glad you were killed when you were.

<--Has a large Ego. Surely, you should've realized this by now.
Yes, I think that if I were alive, the outcome of the day would've been different.

With players like GC, ABR, Glad and Xtoxm... no... no you wouldn't have... Although they may have bought into the fact you claim to have confirmed Jebus, I doubt it though.

I had stated my suspicions of Green since I entered the game.
Albert had stated suspicions of Green.
You had suspicions of Green.
ZEE had suspicions of Green.

Did anyone NOT suspect Green?
Yea, he would've been lynched if he wasn't shot by GLaDOS.

Last I checked ABR was calling Green town. Zee might have suspected Green but he had already shown himself to be a follower and I suspect would have clung to ABR, thus not lynching green. I wouldn't have joined the wagon on Green until ABR or Xtoxm did, so my support hinged on them. Xtoxm and Glad might have and you might have but I feel You and Glad might have been busy looking at me. And when you factor in my mislynch and the nightkill there may not have even been enough players suspicious enough to get a decent wagon on Green. Although eventually POE might have caught up with him.

ABR was confirmed by ZEE, and vice versa. Similarly, X confirmed Albert who confirmed X. In my view, that would leave only Green. X enabling me (in the scenario where GLaDOS is lynched, leaving me as the only person who can possibly have a latent power) would confirm me as well. You get the idea.

First off ABR wasn't confirmed by Zee as far as alignment goes, but yes he was accepted town. And I do keep forgetting Xtoxm's confirmation via empowering Albert. So yeah, Rethinking that I do think Green was screwed either way.

Like the old saying goes,
I suppose we can agree to disagree...

Naw, I'll agree I was wrong in places and you can just forget the whole thing happened... >.> <.<