Theme Test Market

[GreyICE]

Actually not at all. I really love the Ace Attorney series (I've played every game), and I'm looking forward to your theme game, but this is different. It's a whole new way of playing altogether.
To put it simply it's a murder trial based on the mafia's NK.

Please, please, please check out the first run of Objection before you commit this.

[GreyICE]

Do NOT take any ideas from the version that was run over at MTGS.

The spy worked like this - pro town role, kills a player IF THEY TAKE A NIGHT ACTION.

Vig that doesn't kill vanillas..

[GreyICE]

Do NOT take any ideas from the version that was run over at MTGS.

The spy worked like this - pro town role, kills a player IF THEY TAKE A NIGHT ACTION.

Vig that doesn't kill vanillas..

What's wrong with that? (It seems "meh" to me.)

Lemme put it this way: 4 townies, 1 scum. Spy still alive.

Also he was confirming people having not taken shots or made actions all day long

[GreyICE]

Do NOT take any ideas from the version that was run over at MTGS.

The spy worked like this - pro town role, kills a player IF THEY TAKE A NIGHT ACTION.

Vig that doesn't kill vanillas..

What's wrong with that? (It seems "meh" to me.)

Lemme put it this way: 4 townies, 1 scum. Spy still alive.

Also he was confirming people having not taken shots or made actions all day long

And roleblockers can do the same thing. I don't see how that's a problem, considering that SCUM COULD HAVE FUCKING KILLED HIM.

I guess.

It ended up being really swingy, since the scumteam was too scared to submit a kill (Roleblocker confirms town when a kill is submitted... spy Confirms town when a kill is submitted... AND AUTO-KILLED SCUM IF IT "BLOCKED" THEM).

Medic overcharge ended up being worse though if I think about it. 1-shot or not, allowing the doctor to self protect in addition to having a normal protection target is fucktarded.

[GreyICE]

Seems more like a mish-mash thing.

[GreyICE]

Seems more like a mish-mash thing.

no.

There's a mafia, a town, a majority lynch mechanic that, though alterable, should favor an uninformed majority over an informed minority, a night where the informed minority can probably put together a night kill.

No, I mean it would be more fun in Mish Mash.

Let people form alliances, break alliances, backstab each other, that sort of thing. Let them buy things like a neighborizor role to use to communicate with their "allies." Trade resources. Etc.

Maybe give people a 'secret group?' Five groups of 3 or sth, and win if two specific groups are eliminated?

1 -> Kill 4+5
2 -> Kill 3+5
3 -> Kill 2+4
4 -> Kill 3+1
5 -> Kill 2+1

[GreyICE]

I understand where you are coming from, but I'm still worried about people focusing on the mechanic more than the scumhunting.

If you could put the rolls at the end of the day, this may solves the problem a little bit.

Many of the roles are night roles. The voting and resource ones aren't, for obvious reasons, but the investigation and killing ones all work at night.

Uhhhhhhhhhh

I strongly, strongly, STRONGLY suggest that if you go this route you check out Advance Wars games. Variable cooldowns solves a lot of balance issues. That being said, this game is still much better off in Mish Mash.

Why? Look at advance wars. Half the mechanics had to do with voting, lynching, etc. Here, your mechanics have to do with investigations and kills. Shoehorning that into a mafia setup is a waste of time. You don't enhance the mafia game by adding a bunch of night actions, you don't enhance the actions by stuffing them into some very limiting setup restrictions.

What you're doing here is thinking that every interesting mechanic deserves a mafia game to go around it. No. I might love portal 2 and Monday Night combat, but their mechanics would suck for Mafia... and so do these, to be honest.

[GreyICE]

Variable cooldown times? You mean like Real Time Mafia? This isn't my first rodeo.

I suggest reading the setup before making such definite criticisms, GreyICE. I have become convinced the more I read your comments that you have very selectively skimmed the setup in order to try and win an argument as the comments seem to be divorced from either a holistic understanding of the setup or a specific understanding of many of its features. Not getting it all in the first reading is understandable given the breadth and complexity of the setup, but it makes it hard to have a real conversation about the game.

Voting and lynching play an integral part in the economics of the game. There are four abilities that have to do with either, and voting is perhaps the linchpin (har har) of the economic system, requiring that the town work together with resources (rather than hoarding) and trading. Regardless of THAT, the abilities themselves are in no way set. I point this out at the beginning of the abilities list when I say, "It’s meant more to give an idea of what types of roles might be in the game than to actually list them. "

Well I meant that the type of mechanic purchasing and other abilities works better when there's an ability to form alliances and break alliances. Overall the structure of Mafia can be described as an 'uninformed majority and informed minority' whereas the structure in a game like Diplomacy can best be described as 'a group of players at varying information levels with fundamentally incompatible goals but who must work together in order to stand a chance of achieving those goals.'

I think the latter suits the mechanics and game you're describing better. If you think Diplomacy is less strategic than Mafia... it isn't. Just VERY differently strategic. I've played quite a bit in my time, and do NOT think winning at it is any easier than winning at Mafia. It's in some ways quite a bit harder.

If you disagree... okay. It wasn't meant as an insult. It was meant as an observation.

[GreyICE]

That's 26 number requests Day 1. Some of which would be false, potentially.
Another 22 the next day
and 18 the day after.

Thats all the combinations. Although, agreed, I can just say no requests D1. but that only puts the problem off until D4.

Whereas if I say only 1 a day, that's 11 + 9 + 7 + 5 + 3, they'll never get all the combinations.

People can't know their own numbers.

[GreyICE]

It will end in tears

/end psychic predictions

(no seriously, since game 1 has a motive to stop game 2 from ending in either a win or loss, and visa versa, there's going to be entire classes of people whose overwhelming motive is to NOT lynch from the wrong game. If it's 13/13/3/3, for instance then if G2 is down to 3/1 or something, lynching ANYONE from game 2 is a horrid idea for the entire group of game 1. Imagine the following scenario: "I'm the cop, confirmed. He's scum. Lynch." Rest of game 1: "Nah, you're all game ending 3rd party jesters as far as we're concerned, go play with yourself, we're lynching someone else." Scum should virtually certainly win.)

[GreyICE]

I'd setup review / co-mod it for you. (Advance Wars 1 specifically, or the series in general? I could do either.)

Advance Wars 1, 2 and Dual Strike most likely. Days of Ruin will not be in it. I'm interested in adding a CO power element to the game which might get tricky.

look up the amazing games AlmasterGM ran for some inspiration

[GreyICE]

hah I should have read lower

just enjoyed that one game

good mechanic

really time intensive though

[GreyICE]

someone comes to you and says, "here is the thing that i wrote that makes fun of you. can i use it in my game?" there is a cost to saying "no you can't use that." You look like you can't take a joke at your expense, and knowing Reck, it's unlikely to come without some pressure.

I'm fine with saying no to all his shitty ideas.

The problem would be finding any ideas to say yes to after those were eliminated.

[GreyICE]

Last Minute Changes

3 mafia goons
10 vanilla townies
-after a lynch occurs there's a 24 hour twilight phase where people are allowed to secretly change their votes by PM'ing the mod. after the twilight phase is over the updated votecount is posted with the names of the voters removed (so just a list of all the people with how many votes are on them) and the person with the most votes is lynched (plurality)

I blatantly stole this from a game offsite. it seems interesting o.o

Given the mechanic is scumsided, and 10:3 is a virtually guaranteed scum win, how the heck does the town have a chance?