Theme Test Market

[Kelly Chen]

Max, I think it would be useful to ask yourself what the purpose of each rule is.

I'm thinking of doing a vampire mafia game where mafia don't know each other and bite a member of the town each night once that person hs been bitten by all 3 mafia they die if 2 mafia bite someone that person gets double votes for 1 day

This is a very weak mafia, that needs to coordinate their nightkills, but in so doing can accidentally give a pro-town player an extra ability.

If a vampire is bitten by 1 team-mate he still gets double if he gets bitten by 2 he dies from lack of blood(both bites have to be on 1 day)
If 1 vampire dies it requires 2 bites

If losing a vampire makes it easier for the vampires to kill, it could actually be in the vampires' interest to sacrifice someone.

It makes the vampires pretty weak that they can't even tell if they're attacking a teammate.

If a vampire is attacked by the SK the SK counts as being bitten and vampire survives

I'm not sure why you want an SK in this game when the mafia basically act independently already. At least it's consistent that the SK is weakened from normal.

A vampire cannot be NK unless he is attacked by a monk twice (stake and cross) 1 monk in game
If a monk dies a new one is reborn at random

So the monk is a weakened vigilante. If the vampires try to kill him, it's not because he's a threat, since there will just be a new monk.

If the doctor protects someone who is bitten the person who is bitten getes double votes and so does the doctor (regardless of how many times they are bitten)

So this doctor is

stronger

than normal. More important than the double votes is the fact that he can use the double votes to prove he's a doctor.

Cops only ever have a 50% chance of being sucessful

So the cops are weakened...

Vampires being nocturnal need 1 less vote than required to lynch to die

This rule is definitely broken.

I think the vampires would probably not have a chance. Even though most roles are weakened, the vampires have no clue what to do during the day. They will most likely accidentally help the town lynch the other vampires.

[Kelly Chen]

What about a kind of mafia where you have a deadline, and the person with the most votes by the deadline dies? (like a kind of "bomb" mafia?) It can also end early if everyone except for 1 person votes for the same person.

If that's a bad idea, please tell me.

"All but one" is way too high to be a realistic option.

There are games that lynch at a deadline rather than at a majority.

An interesting rule (I think) is that at the deadline, it has to actually be a majority vote, or something bad happens (No Lynch probably). This forces more players to take responsibility for the outcome.

[Kelly Chen]

Ok.

What about a mafia with 20 players, but with this setup and roles (mafe up of course):

I take it this is an open setup, then? I.e. the players are told what roles exist in the game?

Avenger: When you are lynched/killed, the person who killed you (if you were lynched, the next day, the last person to vote for you would die, and if night, who killed you dies (randomly))

I've seen this. Pro-town I assume.

Spy: Dies when investigated by a cop (due to being caught as a spy)

Is this a pro-town role? Either way, this would be a nasty role to get.

Bodyguard: Doctor and Bulletproof Townie combined

That's insanely powerful (especially if the town knows that this role is out there). If mafia got down to 2 people the game could be unwinnable for the mafia.

Usually I think a bodyguard is a doctor who dies in place of whoever he protects.

Special Townie: Each night, the Serial Townie can kill someone or investigate someone

That's a cop/vig with a strange name.

Drug Dealer: Each night, he chooses someone who can't participate the next day.

Is this a pro-town role? This is not an ability a pro-town player would want to use.

Inexperianced Cop: Cop with 1 investigation only

Pretty weak compared to the other cops.

Military Leader: Can kill twice during game (in day). Once he uses his first shot, his role is known (who he is)

So this guy definitely isn't lynchable.

Shopkeeper: Same as drug dealer, but dies if he tries to get mafia/SK/Vig out for a day

??? Why would he ever use his power?

Regular Doctor and Cop

3 townies

a mafia godfather, and 2 goons

Ok. That mafia is about right for a 12-player game.

Surgeon: Protects 2 people per night

Holy crap, that's powerful.

Admiral: He chooses 3 people each night. If exactly 1 person in the group is a killing role, the admiral gets to kill one of the three.

I'm not sure how powerful this role is.

Beggar: A townie that can't vote on even number days

Outcase: A townie that can't vote on opposite number days

Those are some bad roles to get, too.

Is that a better idea? Please tell me about this setup.

No, there's not enough scum (I assume it's just the 3 scum). The town can protect four people per night plus the bodyguard, which is enough to cover all the important roles (cop, surgeon, doctor, special townie, or maybe the military leader).

This is compounded if it's open setup, because if everyone claims, it will be obvious where the scum must be hiding. Any role not counterclaimed is a confirmed innocent.

[Kelly Chen]

Ok.

Psychic: Is like a cop, but instead of guilty and innocent, he gets whether someone is a gun role (cops, admiral, military cop, mafia godfather, goons, spy) or a non-gun role (Avenger, Special Townie, Drug Dealer, doctor, surgeon, beggar, outcast, townies)

I've seen this called "gunsmith."

Special Townie: The special townie is a mafia member, but doesn't know who the mafia is. When his role is revealed, it is shown as mafia.

Outcast: A townie that can't vote on opposite number days but can save himself during the night one time (PRO-MAFIA)

Some important questions with this type of role. Does the mafia know who

they

are? Can the mafia accidentally kill them? How are these guys supposed to play the game?

Drug Dealer: Each night, he chooses someone who can't participate the next day. (NEUTRAL)

Military Leader: Can kill twice during game (in day). Once he uses his first shot, his role is known (NEUTRAL)

What is the win condition of a neutral? Just to survive?

Shopkeeper: Can get 2 people out of the game one day, but kills himself in the process. Otherwise, he's just a regular drug dealer (NEUTRAL)

Well, his win condition can't be to survive, since he dies when he uses his power.

Regular Doctor and Cop (duh)

3 townies (duh)

For an open setup you want lots more townies, so that the scum have reasonably safe claims. (This is probably open setup unless you play this with people who can't see this discussion.)

Surgeon: Protects 2 people per night, but dies when 1 is targetted. If both are targetted, then only the Surgeon dies (PRO-TOWN)

That seems balanced... It's

always

just the surgeon who dies, right?

[Kelly Chen]

Is it open setup?

I have this idea for a setup for the roles of a 30-player game:

(1,2,3,4). 4 players in scum group #1 consisting of:
A. godfather who sends in kills & always innocent to cops
B. recruiter who can recruit up to 2 other goons.
C. roleblocker who can block any townie or other scum's night abilities each night.
D. role delayer who can delay the effect of a player's role by one night. Example: if role delayer chooses the cop, the cop will not get his investigation until 1 night after.

The recruiter is the most powerful thing you've given any of the scum. Without him I'd say there aren't enough bad guys in this setup.

(5,6). 2 players in scum group #2 with abilities of:
A. Each night they can brainwash a townie or another scum, learn about their abilities and their night choice, and override their night choice if they want to and choose a different target for their night choice.
B. Both scum is always innocent to cops if they brainwash someone pro-town. They will be guilty if they brainwashes someone in the other scum group.

This ability runs the risk of slowing down every night phase. After they send their move you have to tell them the result, and then wait for them to decide what they want to do with it.

If they use this ability well, they'll always be investigation-immune. But I still think this faction is much weaker than the first one.

(14,15,16). 3 players in Mason group #1

(17,18,19). 3 players in Mason group #2

I think this is way too many masons. This is six players who have basically no fear of being lynched. The scum will have to kill all of them.

(20). 1 pro-town super agent who uses cop, doc, roleblocker, and vig roles each once, then can use any of the four roles for the rest of the game as long as the real player with that role is alive. Also if this player is lynched during the day, the first person that voted for the player is automatically lynched by the town as well.

Well, if the town knows that this role exists, there is no danger of him being lynched.

This guy is pretty powerful, since if he gets a guilty result, he doesn't even have to reveal it. He can just vig him. He can also trade protection with the doctor and both roles will be unnightkillable.

(21). 1 psychologist who can investigate both the vigilante and 1-shot day vig.

I don't understand what this role does. He just locates those roles?

(22,23,24,25,26,27,28,29). 8 regular vanilla townies

This isn't too bad, but I think the town will still tend to disbelieve townie claims (because it's a likely scum claim).

(30). 1 serial killer who is un-night-killable and can only kill townies.

If he can only kill townies, is his win condition unusual? I don't understand why this role is so weak.

Only because of the recruiter, I think the first scum group might have a chance against this town (because they could recruit people who have already claimed believably). Otherwise I think the town will dominate in this setup.

[Kelly Chen]

Regarding Max and viper's recent ideas:
In general it's going to hurt the town to replace the voting system with something more secret or more random.

What about a mafia game where the mafia don't know who their partner is, BUT, EVERYONE knows whether another is pro or anti-town.

I think this is promising, but I wouldn't allow a pro-town player to know another player was anti-town unless there were some very good reason why that pro-town player shouldn't come out with his knowledge.

I think it would be interesting if every pro-town player knew another pro-town player (determined at random, so there could be duplicates) was innocent. I'm sure this helps the town, but since the scum can easily fake the same knowledge, the main effect should be that scum will have to nightkill the townies they claim to know are innocent. The biggest problem I see is that the scum will have to confirm each other, or else no one else will. But if they confirm each other, it will be obvious that they're connected for some reason.

The mafia chooses their top 3 kills, and the first majority is a kill.

I don't understand this.

[Kelly Chen]

My idea would be paranoia mafia (not modeled after the Roleplaying game)

Key points:
1: Mafia does not know who each other are. Votes are all counted, whoever gets most gets killed (doesn't need more than 50% votes, it means if everybody gets 1 vote but one guy gets two, the guy with 2 dies)
2: When a player dies or is lynched, their role is NOT revealed
3: No Cop, mafia cop or any other role that can positively identify an identity
4: Jester role has to be included
5: No death notices, players will have to find out when a person stops posting (for night kills, obviously, a lynch is seen by everyone) (This could cause problems with chronic lurkers) (*coughubertimmycough*)

I have to say, this would be a terrible game. The town would never have

anything

to talk about, except maybe accusations of craplogic, and wondering whether so-and-so is a lurker or actually dead.

I missed the part of viper's idea where he said the mafia don't know who each other are. I think that is bad for discussion. The town is trying to lynch people who seem to have a mafia agenda. How can they do that when the mafia aren't sure what the agenda is? They could actually vote to nightkill one of their own.

You couldn't even blame people for bad lynches, since you wouldn't even know if they

were

bad lynches.

If you want even less to talk about, you could make the voting secret.

Oh another idea:

Infefestation Mafia:
One guy is the Infestion plague (takes place of mafia), each night he chooses one person to infect, making them an infection carrier. The mafia goal is to infect everybody, while the town's goal is to kill the original plague starter:
1: One guy is Main Plauge, InfectIon guy, ect.
2: Each night the MMG (main mafia guy) chooses a guy to infect
3: The person infected at night is informed that he has now switched sides
4: Game ends were the MMG gets killed, not someone he infected.
5: MMG has the same rules as the Godfather when investigated by a cop
6: No doctors in this game

Infected people know who are on their team, right? I think that might work. But the town would be most interested in lynching an innocent result, which is kind of odd. Since the result can change, I'd probably put a number of cops in this game.

[Kelly Chen]

If everyone is an SK then this will become clear pretty quickly when you only have a 1/12 shot of having your nightkill go through. Also, the game becomes a popularity contest at that point.

[Kelly Chen]

I really don't understand how you can play in real life with a variable number of SKs. How is it done? How do you find out the night moves?

[Kelly Chen]

So you have to meet with each player privately to give them their roles?

[Kelly Chen]

What about this:

1 mafia team of 3 + godfather
2 cops
2 doctors
1 roleblocker
1 SK
2 townies?

I don't think this is all that good, but before I tweak it, I'll wait for a reply about this.

1. If you start with night, Day 1 might already be lynch or lose.
2. If the doctors and blocker are reasonably successful, town will win the game by stopping most nightkills and lynching the scum based on cop investigations. The scum would be pretty helpless.
3. The serial killer has an unusually low chance of winning, since the mafia and town are so strong.

[Kelly Chen]

What about this then:

1 mafia team of 2 + a godfather
1 SK
1 cop
1 doctor
1 deputy
1 nurse
3 townies
1 neutral (wins when the SK, cop, deputy, the mafia godfather, and a townie are dead. Gets no night choice)

I think this is decent... I think the town has an edge though.

I don't think I like the neutral. He has a decent chance of winning (if he survives long enough), but I don't think he'll have much to do with it: the SK and the godfather should die due to each other's or the town's efforts, and scum will want to kill the cops as soon as they know who they are.

[Kelly Chen]

With the Titanic, is it just roles that are revealed, or alignment also?

[Kelly Chen]

What's a swinger?

[Kelly Chen]

I think everyone will mass claim abilities every day. Scum can't lie very safely about this. That makes me think the psychic is useless overkill.

I think the general idea is worth a shot though.

[Kelly Chen]

You should look at this mishmash game, "Sharing Sucks" :

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=2768

[Kelly Chen]

Not bad. The only thing is that sometimes the town will know who they want to lynch and they won't need/want 3 days per player to express it.

[Kelly Chen]

Max, what I mean is that if the town starts the day knowing who they want to lynch, due to a cop result or something, they can't just vote that player out. They have to spend days voting protections on everyone else.

[Kelly Chen]

What about a twisted UPick game?

There's a number of places (numbers), and when people sign up, they choose a number, and the role behind that number is what they get.

Sound fun? Dumb? Idiotic? Anything?!

This is how my games already work, except that random.org picks the number.

[Kelly Chen]

im planning a No Night Mafia.

im predicting this will be a very large game. maybe the largest ever finished on this site. im currently trying to work on the game mechanics and discussing it with inhim and roland.

By "large" you mean tons of players?

'no night mafia' sounds like its already been done. if so what is the link so i can make it better, and is there any other games with a mechanic like this? please post links.

There's No Exit, but it was vanilla, with no nightkills or abilities. Roles were revealed on every third lynch.

It seems like turning night abilities into day abilities is pretty straightforward, except for abilities that cancel or affect other abilities. If you're a day doctor, do you have to race against the scum to submit your protection of the cop? Or do the night effects only take effect at lynch? I'd probably do the latter.

[Kelly Chen]

You should have a vig who can submit a list of targets. Everyone down to and including the first actual scum on this list is killed. He should be required to submit a list every night.

That should help cut down the players after you start.

[Kelly Chen]

What's "MC"?

I think that town is way too powerful. How can 3 mafia compete against 8 power roles and 3 double voters?

It doesn't help the mafia at all to have cop abilities when there's no other bad guys to detect.

[Kelly Chen]

I think if the SK gets tracked when the SK made two moves, the tracker should get the target that wasn't the nightkill target. That way it's a little perk for the SK. Otherwise if the tracker gets two results, he knows he's found the SK, and that seems a little rough.

It looks like you have an awful lot of killing roles there.

[Kelly Chen]

I'd at least like to see it.

Hilarious if a single nuke exchange ends the game.

[Kelly Chen]

I'm pretty sure I have seen a Zork game. Where, I have no idea... I think I've browsed Misetings and MTGS and not a lot else.

I don't see how you can get a lot of roles out of Zork though. There are some interesting villains, but some protown player is going to have to be the garlic, or the dam.

[Kelly Chen]

I'd like to claim the idea of a large Vengeful game with maybe two-week days. I assume some people would sign up for this.

My idea to adjust the basic setup is that lynching the godfather wouldn't be game over, it would just cause a specific goon to die too. The mafia would be specified (to them) as a list that wraps around, and the (living) goon following the godfather is the one that dies with him. And whenever the godfather dies, the mafia select a new godfather.

I'm not sure what to do about the fact that if the town does well, the game might not see a single venge kill. It's not fixed so easily as letting lynched townies vengekill all the time, since given random moves (and the GF vulnerability) it isn't even advantageous to vengekill before lylo...

[Kelly Chen]

I think when you reveal details like that up front it makes them less interesting, since there's no room for players to speculate e.g. about who the scum are.

[Kelly Chen]

You don't have much of a game left once the mafia are gone. I mean say the mafia are all dead. I just vote for anybody at all who isn't in my town group, and like 3/4 of the players will gladly help me quicklynch them. This only stops when you have two groups left with equal numbers.

Maybe you mean you don't know who is in your protown group with you. In that case I don't know how anything is going to happen. I don't know (as town) who I can vote for, and if anybody claims, they will immediately be lynched by 3/4 of the players.

[Kelly Chen]

Well say the scum are all dead. What town group can anybody claim that won't get them instantly lynched?

[Kelly Chen]

How about this setup:

You have a huge pile of townies, a Mafia, and two competing cults. Only townies can be converted, though. In theory it would be almost impossible for the townies to win, so cult leaders would send in a pool of folks they wanted, and the top townie would be converted; that way, almost everyone would be converted.

If the top townie gets recruited then not only is the town totally doomed, the cults will also have a pretty good idea of who isn't a townie (or isn't anymore).

Typically cults pay a penalty, or at least don't get anybody new, when they try to recruit scum.

What happens when all townies are gone and it's just mafia and two cults? Not much to do in the day there.

[Kelly Chen]

Often you're lucky if half your players post anyway. With your idea half of those players are barred from posting, and when they do become able to post, they haven't needed to follow along for weeks.

I think impeding people from participating is way too risky to justify any benefit.

[Kelly Chen]

I like the Speedlynch idea but... Does it have to be vanilla? Also I'd up the size so you can at least have 3 mafia.

[Kelly Chen]

Hm, it probably is best without nightkills. And thus without nightmoves.

I'd still make it larger than 12. With three scum you'd at least at first need to up the lynch requirement to 4 though.

[Kelly Chen]

Just because I don't like games that only have two scum. Unless it's like a 7p game (and then only because two is all that would work). Reason is that if the town bags one scum easily somehow, it could be that there's no useful interaction to look back on to find the other scum.

But anyway, yeah, if you go beyond 12p you're looking at a large theme. I guess you'll have to ignore me then...

EDIT: Actually hold on. If it's nightless then 3 mafia is probably ok! I can't run the numbers here but I'd be surprised if 3:9 wouldn't work.

[Kelly Chen]

Finish one game (played) and be on the site three months.
Then you can mod on the open list or mini normal list.
After one of those, you could mod a 12p Dr. Who theme.
After two games, you could mod one with more players.

I think this is right.

[Kelly Chen]

But the D1 massclaim would likely give very good clues about who didn't know for sure who was a doctor.

[Kelly Chen]

What we need is a bot that automatically responds to townless setup proposals.

[Kelly Chen]

Inspired by Farkel Mafia:

Yahtzee Mafia

13 players - 3 Vanilla Mafia, 10 Vanilla Townie

Players play 3 Yahtzee rounds (out of 13) each day, and every night, the players are arranged in order of points, and the current winner is granted immunity from the NK.

How many posts does it take to play 3 rounds of Yahtzee? It seems to me if the game takes more posts or more time than finding scum does, the game will suck really bad.

Does Yahtzee have any skill in it btw? If not, or if not much compared to the number of posts you have to make, I guess you might as well have "Spam Mafia" where you get night abilities by making tons of pointless posts (and making it impossible to find any scum naturally).

Would it be obvious who's in the lead when night falls? If so then there is little risk that the scum would try to kill somebody who won protection.

EDIT: The overall winner of Yahtzee on Day 5 is granted NK immunity for the rest of the game.

Running some numbers the game only lasts 5.16 days on average.

Thoughts? I'm trying to figure out what an ideal Scum/Townie ratio would be for this, how many players the game should be for, and whether or not something other than NK immunity should be offered.

To the last question I think definitely yes. The way it looks here I guess the protown thing to do is abstain from playing the Yahtzee part.

[Kelly Chen]

One thing about not telling scums they're in a warring gang setup is that it really screws with the player-mod relationship. Players generally don't expect the mod to be lying to them about things like that.

The mod wouldn't lie. In a closed (non-normal) setup players don't have a right to know what kind of setup it is.

I once had an idea for a mini broken down into 4 factions, 3 groups of 3 scum, and 3 townies. The scum would think it was just a normal setup, but the townies would be told who the scum are and in what groups they exist. The game would then become a bout of psychological warfare as the scum try to figure out what the hell is going on and the townies try to bring about as many crosskills as possible. However, that would preclude any game anchoring practices like posting the townie role PM. It would be a fun game to read, but it seems to me like 9 people would end up being screwed over.

I don't think it would play out like this. The townies don't have incentive to be sneaky and only claim one scum at a time or anything; they'll be suspected as cops and nightkilled. I'm pretty sure the townies should out all nine scum at once.

[Kelly Chen]

I ran a mini with two scum groups of three without calling it "Six scum mafia" or anything.

I don't see how the game could be interesting if a townie takes my advice and claims all the scum D1. The scum would just crosskill each other out of existence since the town would be no further threat.

[Kelly Chen]

The scum would just crosskill each other out of existence since the town would be no further threat.

... leaving townies to win?

It seems to me a scum group's only hope of winning is to kill the other scum, and hope those guys are stupid enough to kill town, even as they're taking hits at night.

If that plan is considered impossible then it doesn't matter what scum do as far as I can see.

[Kelly Chen]

Albert, I agree with JDodge, that mainly the town would be hurt by having secret voting. It's less information, less to talk about. It would probably get lurky.


Adel, I don't see how bastard mod games could be accepted on the open queue when the whole point of the open queue is that you know what you're signing up for.

Regarding the prisoner's dilemma: The whole point of the dilemma is that no matter what your partner does, you're better off betraying him. So you should see why I say that scum will just kill each other, especially if the scum cooperate to the point that the town might be endgameable.

[Kelly Chen]

And Kelly, before you say anything, it's probably horribly unbalanced or easily broken. It's just an idea.

If it's broken or unbalanced, shouldn't I tell you why?

[Kelly Chen]

Here's my current draft of a semiopen setup:

12 players, day start

2/3 chance Sane Cop, 1/3 chance Insane Cop

change: 100% chance sane cop

1/2 chance Devil¹, 1/4 chance Naive Cop, 1/4 chance Paranoid Cop
1/2 chance Doctor
1/3 chance Vigilante, 2/3 chance Serial Killer²
1/2 chance Psychiatrist²
1/2 chance protown Roleblocker⁵, 1/2 chance mafia possess a Roleblocker

1/2 chance two protown Lovers

change: no lovers, so that we can have at least two townies

1/2 chance Lyncher³
3 mafia:

1/2

1/3 chance Godfather,

1/2

1/3 chance Framer⁴

change: plus 1/3 chance neither!

Unallocated positions are townies.

notes
1: Devil is promafia, doesn't know who mafia are, at night investigates players to learn whether they are a power role (cop doc vig sk psych townrb). Exits and loses if all mafia die before he does.
2: If Psychiatrist exists and targets SK, he becomes a Vig if he

and the Psych

survives to morning. (This is to give mafia incentive to kill an SK who claims in order to be converted.) Psychiatrist receives no notification of success. SK receives no buffs, sorry.

...well, maybe we can say the SK can endgame any other single player!

3: Lyncher exits and wins if target is lynched while lyncher is still alive; wins if town wins and lyncher is still alive. Doesn't become a simple townie if target is NKed.

Target is chosen randomly from all townies

and, if extant, psychiatrist

.

4: Not sure how long a framing should stay effective. "Same night only" seems weaker than a godfather, but "permanent effect" seems much stronger.

change: I think a single night is fine!

5: Targeting roles will be told if a move failed due to a roleblock.

Not sure about which endgame rule to use.

change: keep playing until from available information it is clear one side must win

Any comments now? TIA.

[Kelly Chen]

I ran a themed mini that took place in a dungeon and had character classes, monsters, a haunted chest, and Faye Wong in it.

[Kelly Chen]

Draft 3, consolidated and simplified a bit:

12 players, day start

1 sane Cop
1/2 chance ineffective Cop (1/2 chance naive, 1/2 chance paranoid)
1/2 chance Devil¹
1/2 chance Doctor⁶
1/3 chance Vigilante, 2/3 chance Serial Killer²
1/2 chance Psychiatrist²
1 Lyncher³
1/2 chance Godfather, 1/2 chance Framer⁴
2 Goons

Unallocated positions (from 2-6) are townies.

notes
1: Devil is promafia, doesn't know who mafia are, at night investigates players to learn whether they are a power role (cop doc vig sk psych). Exits and loses if all mafia die before he does.
2: If Psychiatrist exists and targets SK, he becomes a Vig if he and the Psych survive to morning. Psychiatrist receives no notification of success. SK receives no buffs, except that he can endgame any other single player.
3: Lyncher exits and wins if target is lynched while lyncher is still alive; also wins if town wins (i.e. mafia and SK dead) and lyncher is still alive. Doesn't become a simple townie if target is NKed. Target is a townie.
4: Godfather is investigation immune. Framing ability works same night only.
6: Doctor protects against all kills.

Endgame rule: No mafia endgaming ability, but SK has an endgaming ability.

Main change is removing the roleblocker (unless I can think of a way to make it less disruptive but still interesting); making lyncher a guaranteed role (I figure if mafia want to claim lyncher, the real lyncher won't necessarily want to counterclaim); promising scum a power role; splitting up devil and ineffective cop possibilities.

[Kelly Chen]

Just have the scum be everybody who knows the material (since they'll be able to handle fake claiming).

Just don't tell anyone that's what you did or that you read this post.

[Kelly Chen]

There was a Saw Mafia on Wifom here. It was abandoned and it appears the setup hasn't been posted yet. Bluesoul had a funny PR though.

And I'm not gonna bother trying to just casually pass by the fact that I have to mention SOAP Mafia, or the league, which I abandoned, in every post. I'm post-restricted and not terribly happy about it. Somebody was going to point it out so now you know.

[Kelly Chen]

I reserve

Sandpaper Clothesline Mafia

, and all game mechanics evoked by this theme specifically.

[Kelly Chen]

yellowbounder ran (started?) a game with a bunch of SKs and I believe it was considered an awful idea. It's Freelancer in New York.

[Kelly Chen]

Look! It's Lion King Mafia!

(For those not getting the reference, this setup is bad because scum have no safe claims that they'd normally be aware of. A mass claim is far more likely to bag all the scum based just on their role names than anything else. There just aren't that many other major Avatar characters out there, so scum is either forced into a situation where they look out of place by choosing a minor character, or have to take a gamble on a major character with a high likelihood of counterclaiming a role that's already in the game.)

Oh sorry! I forgot to mention that a list of the available roles would be posted. I hate not knowing what's in the mix...

You're going to post all the roles in the setup? Does this mean that scum truly can't claim anything?

The Spirit role is pretty screwed up since if you turn a mafia member into a good guy, this player still knows who the other mafia is and can just out him.