Theme Test Market

[Mr. Flay]

We were kicking around the idea of a 'Usual Suspects' mafia last night - anyone ever seen this done?

::edit:: upon further reflection, there doesn't seem to be nearly enough 'good guy' roles in this movie to make a good Mafia game. Anyone else who is more clever than I is welcome to give it a try, I'm releasing the idea to the wild...

[Mr. Flay]

amnesia mafia?

Wasn't there a game at some point where you didn't know your role, you jusat sent in a night choice and tried to determine what it was by what happened to them?

[Mr. Flay]

okay I've got a game callrd townie mafia the only roles are townies.But the townies are part of one of two groups(Kinda Like The Somethin's and The McCoy's)
Townie1 or Townie2 and the groups are masons with each other' but unlike a mafia can't kill at night, only lynch. Now for the twist an even number of players aren't part of a group so the 2 groups are trying to convince them to vote one way.

mine would rock hard

I don't think that would work.

1. It's not mafia if there's no mafia
2. How would the people who aren't part of a group win?
3. I just don't get how this would work.

If there's no night kills, the town can decide to Live Happily Ever After on Day 1, right? Spork, I'm not saying it wouldn't be interesting, but it's probably not mafia. Try it out in the Mish Mash forum and see if you get any nibbles? I might be willing to try it out as an experiment, as long as the group was relatively small (10 or less).

[Mr. Flay]

Would anyone play European History (12th to 20th Century) Mafia.

I'm sure you'd get some takers for that...I might be one of them.

[Mr. Flay]

So you don't know who's on your side? That might be alright (avoids the Gay Mafia flaw), otherwise I'd say no.

Do you get to choose whether to act based on your spell received? I can see a reluctance to use your spell if you don't if you're going to get Transformation: Eat Your Fellow Player or Transformation: Give Your Fellow Player Stoneskin.

If you do tell them what the spell for the night is and then have them choose to use it or not, you've just increased your number of night PMs threefold at least, I'd think... which might be alright in a mini.

[Mr. Flay]

I'd probably be in for XF mafia...

[Mr. Flay]

Has anybody ever done Ancient Greece mafia before?

i.e. A mythical creature could be the Serial Killer or Vig, the Aristocrats are Mafia, etc.?

GL actually just finished one up...

http://www.greylabyrinth.com/discussion ... php?t=7109

::edit:: Which isn't to say we couldn't do one here...and if we did, my wife has a lot of knowledge about the Hellenic period, that you could probably tap into...

[Mr. Flay]

I probably wouldn't play, but I'd be glad to help critique it, seeing as I have a penchant for making wacked-out games. I would caution you against trying to make it "too" realistic; sure, the brain going into a coma isn't fatal, but have you ever tried to function without kidneys?

Anyway, that's all I'll say in public, but I think you'd find an audience for that sort of game here.

[Mr. Flay]

Ok, I know I'm not really qualified to Mod a game yet, but I wanted to get some initial opinions on these ideas anyway. I have been completely addicted to Mafia lately, and have had some rather cool (I think) ideas.

That's okay. The sooner you claim your ideas, the less chance of someone else doing what you have your heart set on. That being said...

1. Family Guy (I found out while reading some of this thread that this had already been mentioned. )

Yeah, I think we've had two FG games so far, probably enough for the near future...

2. Holiday Mafia (Your role would be Santa, Easter Bunny...ect. My only concern would be that I may not have enough characters to go around. My only idea to combat this would be to have Christmas be the Mafia. Santa the Kingpin, and the Reindeer other mafiosos?)

I like the idea, and there's plenty of other holidays to choose from... but I would caution you against discussing the roles of the Mafia in public, just in case you do end up running such a game... players can be remarkably clever (or think they're clever) with the Search function.

3. Cowboy Bebop (I can't help it. I just love it so much. This is the one I see as having the most potential, as the characters are amazing, and fit into many roles easily. If I did this, it owuld most likely have a few experimental/uncommon roles.)

I like it. I think this has good potential, and given the other games that do well here, the theme should get you a lot of players.

4. Adult Swim (That's right, your role would be a show on Adult Swim. I personally like ANime, but I think they would end up being the Mafia because AS always has jokes about how bad Anime does in the ratings. I think this one could be hilarious.)

Could also be good. I thought I heard someone talking about this recently - might do a search on the phrase "adult swim"?

5. Dark Tower (I really don't think I need to say more. If you read the books you know how amazing this could be if done right.)

It might be tough to find roles that are safe for scum to claim, but yes, this could be very exciting...and I'd probably play. (rolando might, too).

Well, what do you guys thnk? Oh, and for the record, what are your qualifications to host here?

Getting on the list for a Normal Game (which none of these would qualify for, except maybe Holiday, being themed from shows/books), or either of the Mini lists, just requires that you have played a game here. Theme Park requires successful moderation of at least one game, here or other approved sites... but I'd suggest you play a few games in different types before starting to set up your games. Will give you a feel for game dynamics here...then you can feel free to experiment, knowing your baseline. Good luck!

[Mr. Flay]

6. Mutiny (Not based of Pirates of the Car. like the other. Just a regular ship that has a few mutinous crew members.

Sounds like the Cruise Ship game I've got in mind... but it could be done a lot of ways. Mine's very Experimental/Variant...

8. Cube (This would probably have to be a mini game due to the sheer lack of characters. I do however have a great idea for the mafia in this one)

Not even having seen the movie (yet), this sounds intriguing. Just make sure your mafia isn't so obvious/roles so restricted that a claim on Day One breaks things wide open for the town.

McArthy (sp) Trials (What's more in spirit with the paranoid atmosphere of Mafia, then Mr. Jingoist's crusade?)

Lovely. McCarthy, by the way...(I think).

I don't really like Minis though.

Is there a particular reason why not? They tend to move a little faster than Normal/Theme games, but not so quickly decided as Newbies... they're my favorite, usually, unless it's a REALLY good Theme Game...

PBuG: As far as I know, Minis can be NO MORE than 12 players (some are 10 or less), but a Normal/Theme Park game can be anywhere down to 16, I'm sure...

[Mr. Flay]

I'm torn, Macros. I'd much rather play than mod, but if I don't have time to play, I'd rather help devise the game...are you really going to try to start it before 11/11?

[Mr. Flay]

Sorry Nor, I suspect I might want to play, depending on which Star* it is...

Fritzler, if it gets to that point, I can send you my notes for X-Files mafia, or we can co-mod, or whatever... I don't have anything too concrete yet, just the same sort of list of potential roles I'd use if I was playing.

[Mr. Flay]

I think there would be, Cad. Could make for some interesting role dynamics, with the place of honor in that society, if you wanted to go that far with it...

[Mr. Flay]

Dude, totally in to play firefly mafia. I was about to suggest the same thing, though I've done no work on an actual set-up.

I'm considering more than one idea for my next themed mini. Would there be any interest in Isaac Asimov's Foundation? I'm also considering something rather self-explanatory called Lynch or Lose Mafia, which may not be based on sound game design principles, but I'd be willing to run if there was enough interest. Another idea that just popped into my head would be to do something based on the animation of Amy Winfrey, the creator of Muffin Films, Big Bunny, and Making Fiends.

I like both the Amy Winfrey and Foundation ideas (mmmmmm, muffins). but not sure what LoL is about.

[Mr. Flay]

I always consider it a "lesser" win if I don't survive until the end of the game (and I realize, after Res. Dogs, that Stoofer disagrees with me). I don't play to win, however, as much as I do to make the other side lose... if I were playing to win, I'd do the minimum to not get lynched, not step out on a limb, not make myself a target, etc...

*shrug*

[Mr. Flay]

TGTB&TU, based on the movie? That sounds somewhat more interesting, but I haven't seen the other one...isn't that about amnesia? That could have potential, too.

[Mr. Flay]

There was a "triggered" mafia once that was kinda like that, i think it came out okay but there were an insane number of keywords, and I think they worked both for promotion and demotion, and for both town and scum... try Theme Park or New York?

[Mr. Flay]

I think you mean, unfair BY the scum....

[Mr. Flay]

Passdog, in the interest of getting yourself onto one of the longest waiting lists around, you may want to get in the mini theme moderation queue

now

; you'll have a couple of months, probably, to finalize your game, and if you're not ready you can bump down a couple of slots.

[Mr. Flay]

I think I'd rather play than review a Lovecraft mafia game, sorry...

[Mr. Flay]

Paranoia Theme


A bit on the setting:
Paranoia is set in a Utopia (a disjointed one!) where the computer runs everything. People are born as clones to help the FC (Friend Computer) fight the COmie Mutant threat.

Mafia: Mutant Comies
Townspeople: Civilans
Cop: Intsec
Vigilante: Trouble Shooter
Doc: medbot
Protector: Armed Forces

I love Paranoia. Wouldn't a medbot, thematically, be 'proven' by the fact that they're not human? Why not make 'em HPD&MC instead? Or just ditch the regular doc and leave the Armed Forces person/people as your protective roles.

On the Vigilante, aren't all players usually Troubleshooters? Maybe they're R&D, or another AF just to screw up claims...

[Mr. Flay]

I'm deciding on what theme game to run when I come back. Which sounds better?
-We Didn't Start the Fire, Large Edition (You can look at the other game for help, but it won't be much! (Other than proving how crazy I'm willing to make the setup appear.)) 25 people
-Unusual Role Mafia (The game that MeMe told me not to run as a mini!) 15 people
-Yet Another Scummer Game (Mostly people who haven't been in a scummer game before, and a lot of people from when I was in my glory days.) 25 people
-Perodic Table Mafia (Do I really need to give a description?) 25 people
-Weasel Mafia (Dilbert v. the corporate weasels. Who will win?) 20 people
-Animorphs Mafia (Thanks to AniX and MoS) 20 people

I need to know soon so I can get the preperations done. I have a tendency to write a lot of flavor text. (You should see what I have done so far for Cruise Ship Mafia!)

I like Animorphs, Periodic Table, and Dilbert, and Unusual Role probably wouldn't suck either. Not fond of the meta-games, I don't play enough to "get" them.

Also, what's Cruise Ship about? I've got an idea in my head that we might be able to collaborate on.

Of course, I won't be

joining

any new games anytime soon, so take my opinions with a grain of salt.

Viper: Sounds good, but are your time settings consistent? Are the tomb robbers Egyptian ones, or 1920's ones? I like the concept, though... your mafia could also be the Greeks, who sort of beat up on Egypt a lot.

[Mr. Flay]

A game rattled into my brain earlier today for Medieval Mafia - focus on the Arab occupation of Sicily in the 9th century which theoretically led to the origination of "Our Thing". Would this still be Normal? Or is the time-frame weird enough to push it into a themed game, even with relatively standard roles?

Iammars - PM me if you like about Cruise Ship; I've had some ideas in my brain for a long time for a Mafia Mutation with a lot of additional rules that takes place on a cruise ship, that you may or may not want to integrate. I won't be able to run it myself for many months, so they could either be merged or run separately at different times.

[Mr. Flay]

post about what you think of this...

Riddle Mafia:

Like a normal mafia game, except every day the players are given a riddle that may give a clue to someone's role.

I considered a rule similar to this as part of a Trifia game, but realized that maintaining balance then relied on my ability to properly judge the relative difficulties of the various possible "riddles." If, for example, your riddle cluing the cop turns out to be substantially easier than the rest of them, that shifts the balance of power in favor of the scum. If you think you can get all the riddles to be of nearly comparable difficulty, then this could be fun and interesting, but I decided that I didn't want to be in a position where the game was broken because I wrote one riddle badly.

Reservoir Dogs had a "Soothsayer"-type role who could ask the mod a question, and get an answer in the form of a song. It was fun and not too overpowered (I don't think) to run it this way, since the mod was in charge of the

answers

, not the

questions

.

[Mr. Flay]

Since this was reviewed and was ok'ed, I will delete this to make a closed game.

Of course, you'd have to delete Kelly's comments, your response to Kelly's comments, etc... that's why actual theme/setup reviews for games that will take place here tend to happen by PM. Many of the players posting games in this thread are either making them Open Setup, or planning to run them elsewhere, and just getting them reviewed here...

[Mr. Flay]

What about a game of mafia where there is NO voting, but after a set deadline, the thread is locked and everyone votes. And once there's a majority/someone (x) has more votes than the second person (y), and the # of people is less than x-y.

Then I post the results (without who voted for who) and that person is lynched?

Is it awesome, great, good, average, bad, stupid, the pits?

Unknown Role was somwhat like this (Themed Mini, in Little Italy). It wasn't the only factor, but not knowing who voted for whom gave us very little to talk about during the day.

[Mr. Flay]

I've got a game of similar structure in my files, Kscope. Not going to broadcast the mechanics here because I'd like to run it someday when I have time (when I came up with it, there had just been a rush of scum-as-town alignment-flipping games and it seemed like overkill).

I think the massive deathcount/massive protection will be what breaks your setup, more than anything else. It'll become highly random/broken at the end, I fear.

[Mr. Flay]

seeing as how I've been out of the loop for awhile i wanted to verify an idea i have. A three game LOTR mafia based upon the books and possibly the movies. After I ran the Hobbit I learned many things to make a LOTR game(s) better balanced and I've written a small amount for fellowship so I just wanted to be sure it hasn't been run in my absence and people would be interested.

There was a game based around the Minas Tirith sequence (won by the SK I believe), and there's not so much a "rule" as there is a general sense that running the same theme/source too often will burn people out on it. There's certainly been several HHGTTG games, and at least one UN before, right?

That said, mike I would

strongly

encourage you to find a co-moderator/reviewer for your LOTR games if you do go forward. I don't want to see you or your players disappointed with all your hard work because you overlooked something.

[Mr. Flay]

ChannelDelibird, some of the original Dmitry Davidoff games of Mafia apparently used an "accuse, vote

on that lynch

" method of voting. It's got some merit and I think it would translate well to a UN format. Just be careful not to let the Days drag on tooooooooo loooooooong.... there was also at least one game here with that strategy but I can't remember how they did it exactly...maybe Propose/Second?

[Mr. Flay]

I'd like to see it happen, even though I'm not sure I'd like to play. Sounds like an interesting game.

Did anybody ever actually run a Zork Mafia?

[Mr. Flay]

No, Zork.

[Mr. Flay]

blahgo: Yeah, but in a year we'll probably have search back up, and Someone Will Find This Thread. That's why closed setups are usually described in PMs/email. I had to blank some of my early Gormengast posts...

Nori: I like When Doubt Consumes, but I'm not sure how many people will. I think they're all workable, actually, with the possible exception of Dichotomafia, which seemed confusing to me in reread. Cult! will be hard to balance...

[Mr. Flay]

So the Townies would be the clients/normal folks that they've helped? Pretty good, might make some of the Team's powers dependent on having X Townies alive, to avoid a claim-fest...

[Mr. Flay]

Themed Mini from IH coming-Fire Emblem Mafia

= ) It has been reviewed/tweaked/approved by PJ.

So there's a cult?

[/offtopic]

[Mr. Flay]

RPS and Chess both demonstrated some difficulty with multiple Towns. Without the unknown majority, it becomes very difficult to justify

not

lynching just anybody not on your team, which just leads to a lack of voting and then an eventual pile-on. You can't even hold it against somebody, really, because you're all trying to do the same thing.

Also, you're reverting to txt msg spk, plz hlt kthxbi

[Mr. Flay]

On the other hand, you might check out Dichotomafia, which ran a Mafia game and a Werewolf game in alternating cycles (when it was Day in one, it was Night in the other). Ran pretty well from what I can tell: http://mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1186

[Mr. Flay]

No, I think he's talking about like Checkmate Mafia by AndrewS, where there was a Black Town and a White Town, and only one could win (in addition to the Mafia, I don't remember if there were one or two factions of those).

[Mr. Flay]

While all of these ideas sound fascinating, they've really wandered far away from anything that would be a teaching tool for newbies. As long as they're not intended for that anymore, carry on...

There's no reason to distrust most Day advice from ICs even if they

are

scum. Only an incompetent will give you blatantly illogical/bad advice, and learning how to pick up on the subtle stuff is not what we expect Newbie Games to do.

[Mr. Flay]

Sorry, I didn't mean to criticize, I just wasn't sure if this was the same thread that was talking about mentoring newbies with IC advisors or not (which I think is a different thread, but led to the first post of this idea).

[Mr. Flay]

No Town Mafia games are REALLY hard to balance/motivate; check out Rock Paper Scissors in Coney Island, and Gay Mafia (though it had other problems) in New York. There was at least one more game with only one townie, a two-vote Mayor, that did somewhat better... but still, there's almost no motivation to play the Day game, and no reason at ALL to ever defend anyone. So it becomes a bloodbath or a stallfest.

I wish I could figure out a way to make them work; well, I have a game in mind that's related, but more on that when I run it...

[Mr. Flay]

So Smalltown is just the same as Split Motive/Role, but Open? Weird name... I would have figured it was one of those 5-player variations.

[Mr. Flay]

I think it's called Smalltown because everyone would know each other in a really small town, and would therefore now everyone else's occupation.

Ahh, that makes more sense now.

I'll add this to the wiki later tonight if no one else does first. It's kind of a neat idea.

[Mr. Flay]

I CALL

CLUEDO MAFIA

I already got loads of roles. Possible and extra. . I can't believe no-one's thought of it so far though

They have. They just used the American name for the game, Clue, as HackerHuck pointed out.

MoS is currently running one which, I believe, is based on the movie. Somebody in the past year ran one based on the board game. I'm too lazy to go find the thread, but it's in the depths of Coney Island somewhere.

Orbiting ran the one based on the board game: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3087

[Mr. Flay]

Of that group, AA Mafia has the greatest potential for funny+understandable... This Role Sucks would probably be second for me.

[Mr. Flay]

Phoebus was going to do a big Insanity game, did that ever happen?

I think the idea is appealing to mods because it offers freedom of movement, but it would be a right bitch to balance properly.

[Mr. Flay]

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "freedom of movement" here.

You know, and I know, that nearly any (functional) role mechanism can be justified in nearly any setup. But I think it's appealing to some mods to have a setup that lends itself toward infinite possibilities along the role mechanics spectrum. That's what I mean by "freedom of movement" - that you can justify almost anything because 'they're crazy!'

[Mr. Flay]

I've been playing around with the idea of

CCTV Mafia

, set in a hotel.

The Day phase runs as normal, but at the start of each day, the CCTV footage of the corridors is played. In game terms, a summary of who visited who's room the previous night is posted at the start of each day.

Of course, there would be factors which would effect the CCTV footage, but those are being kept secret!

Thoughts?

Read Orbiting's Clue Mini, among others that I can't think of right now. It had room-based mechanics that will probably be useful to examine loopholes...

[Mr. Flay]

The thought that the if the SK's target their rivals the rivals won't die. What I mean is Freddy can't kill Nancy, but Jason could.

Hmmm, it's an interesting (and possibly balancing) influence on typical SK-only game designs. I wonder if it'll tip things too far over toward the town though...

[Mr. Flay]

Having some sort of mechanism where they

might

be able to learn the deceased's role/alignment (Psychic, Autopsy Doctor, Forensic Cop, etc) helps alleviate this somewhat, but yeah, otherwise I agree with Yaw. Most players dislike this, though you could certainly announce it up front and only get players who were okay with it.

It probably shifts the balance toward the scum in most cases...

[Mr. Flay]

I don't think Nekka's idea will work. The Mish-Mash/GD thread is funny as hell, but for a game, it would just be a headache, or players would disregard it (like they often do theme/complexities that interfere with playing the game).

undo: Crusades would be interesting, but mainly because you'd have enough factions that who the scum was would be suspect (Muslims? Byzantines? Christians? The Papacy?). WWI/II could be interesting, but I'm not sure how you'd handle broken massclaims, for example...

Phoebus did a Norse Gods game I believe, but it could certainly be done again. Again, massclaim is a danger.

[Mr. Flay]

In an effort to redefine the meta, I came up with the idea of Reality Mafia.

Pretty good, though you could have percentage-Docs: They get a list of who was injured overnight, and can try to save any one person. Works better if the mafia can have multiple kills/night...

The only role I don't like at all is New Godfather. If everyone knows who they are, then there's nothing they can say that will be trusted, therefore they have no reason to post in the game. Better to make this an NPC that causes Town to have to spend one auto-lynch at the end, after all Goons are dead...

Juries instead of Lynch Mobs could be interesting as well, but that makes Town's job MUCH harder...

[Mr. Flay]

You'd also be using something close to 5N players instead of N players, which puts a huge strain on 'replacement' finding.

[Mr. Flay]

*shrug* I was partly basing that on what seemed to happen with MoS' 3-game Clue series, and the 'Penalty Box' series that is currently floundering. Like so many things, I suspect Adel is underestimating things outside of her original worldview.

[Mr. Flay]

Apologies if you took it as an insult, it was meant more in the critique sentiment of "try to expand your perceptions". I just wasn't sure you had the experience to consider what a hassle finding new players for ongoing games is... but I probably could have worded it better.

Having played in Greek Mafia on GL several years ago, I would gladly co/backup-mod that with you to avoid the chaos that ensued...how's that for making up for my words?

[Mr. Flay]

Ok I have thought of a perhaps fun perhaps controversial set up for a game.
9/11 mafia.
Set on a plane with terrorist (mafia) trying to hijack the plane.
There would be two pilots, captain and co pilot.
Mafia win when both pilots are dead and they control the plane.
Town wins when all terrorists are dead.
The pilots would know each other and would be like masons being able to talk to each other.
Town would also have a decent sprinkling of power roles.

S'fine by me. People who would be disturbed by it shouldn't play.

(We had Abortion Mafia, for crissake)

[Mr. Flay]

Why have "Unique Win Conditions" at all?

Otherwise, sounds pretty good. I'd play something like that.

[Mr. Flay]

My next mini theme will probably be Eddie Izzard Mafia (assuming there are enough people familiar/interested). So consider that reserved.

I guess I'm going to have to start figuring out where to go in the large games after the California Trilogy finishes...

/in - we're going to see him next week.

[Mr. Flay]

I'm working on a Star Wars-themed game for when I eventually get back to modding, so consider that reserved (covers all 6 episodes).

Pretty sure you can't reserve an entire series here for "whenever I get back", but good luck with that game/series.

[Mr. Flay]

No, we had that already, it was the Guitarists mini, from back before cubsfan lost his mind.

She means

Heavy Metal

Mafia.

[Mr. Flay]

Looks cool, gorckat. But if it's cult-mechanism (zombie bites), you may want to make it larger than a mini.

Cybele: Very ambitious, especially for that size, and it'll be a hard game to balance properly, but it could turn out very cool. If you still like the idea when you're ready to moderate it 9after two other successful games), I'd say go for it.

[Mr. Flay]

Wait, farside, who is the scumgroup in that game?
Sounds more like two invitationals, gender-restricted.

[Mr. Flay]

Oh. If you want to look at a similar game (that ran into some of the pitfalls with multiple towns), try Checkmate by AndrewS: http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1873

[Mr. Flay]

I have a question about mine though. It wont be for a while, but would I be able to change some of the rules? Or would even a themed mafia game have to be solid in following the general rules?

Themed games are pretty much allowed to change the rules as they see fit (with the caveat that most things should be explained up front, if they're not role-specific, and that it may throw your balance into a cocked hat).

Make sure you have a reviewer, or two, who won't be playing the game, to help you sift out problems before they happen.

[Mr. Flay]

I would disallow a single player having multiple roles at a time (or at least active roles, excluding Body Armor). But all roles is simpler, and avoids paradox loops.

The Burglar seems overpowered, unless there's also a way to 'bank' your money by not bidding on anything, or something like that.

[Mr. Flay]

Wouldn't it be easier to have a role that simply knows the setup? That seems to be what you're after.

Actually, I have such a role among my notes. It's paired with a bastard PR that won't enable them to say anything comprehensible

Codes and breadcrumbing will kill this pretty quickly. Someone once used a restriction that made them post only in smileys to communicate plenty of information. Never assume you can limit what a player does meaningfully, especially if what they are trying to do is help their faction.

[Mr. Flay]

by <meaninglessword> I mean a word specified by me. i.e.

diddly-poo

vote: Natirasha

I doubt the town'd get that.

That's also easy to get around (someone's had a votes-only restriction before). They started to use the names of the people they were voting as part of the code. The town figured it out pretty quickly, and that player didn't even have the incentive that you've given them.

[Mr. Flay]

Has anyone done a Chess Mafia? If not I think, when I am qualified I'd mod that. What do other people think?

Mafia 33: Checkmate for tips/pitfalls.

[Mr. Flay]

I like wording the SK win condition so that you can have two serial killers on the same team...

So basically a mafia group?

With two NKs, probably. I've also seen SKs that become a Mafia-style group if they target each other, but start out independent.

This, along with having read a massive amount of Sandman recently, gives me the idea of

SK convention

No idea of a particular setup, though.

Might work better on Marathon Day or Mish-Mash, though, since you can't really scumhunt individuals. I loved that scene in Sandman though, so I'd probably play a rapid-running version of it. Give everybody overlapping immunities/weaknesses/kill methods...

[Mr. Flay]

[quote="KaleiÐoscøpe"]Idea - Replacement Mafia:
* let 12 people sign up
* a normal setup
* any player outside of the game can request replacement for a certain player. To do this, they pm the player. The chosen player can then pm me to allow the replacery.
* The replacement will then be an "alt" of the player, who can talk and play as the "replaced" player, controlling their vote and nighttalk. The original player still has the same rights, and can still vote and post. It's essentially a second head for the player.
* Any number of players can "replace" a certain player.
* Once a player dies, the replacers die with it, and are unable to replace again.
* Watch[/quote]So it's Hydra Mafia but with secret/infinite hydras? Boring, and I wouldn't want to play.

[Mr. Flay]

It's been done before (with that name, even), but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea. It's essentially flavor on a normal game...

It can also be done horribly wrong. Balance is more key than flavor for this type of game.

[Mr. Flay]

shaft.ed: Plenty, I think; I'm just not one of them.

Sera: I'd play ANH if I had time. Holiday sounds like a bad horror movie.

[Mr. Flay]

There was a game at some point where you could buy your ability (and Points Mafia also was related), but I don't remember the name. Your version would probably want to be a speed game because the potential for imbalance becomes extremely high extremely fast, and scumhunting is likely to take a back seat to ability synergy and logic puzzles.

May also want to look at Realistic Mafia and JOAT Mafia. Perhaps also You Are What You Eat, though assignment was random in that one.

[Mr. Flay]

Lazy Neighborhood Mafia

Imagine a round-shaped area with 12 people on the perimeter. Just like a clock, with numbers 1-12 presenting the people. So everyone's got two "neighbors".

This sounds like an interesting idea, if possibly very swingy. Would positions be scripted or random, or do you not want to say in public?

[Mr. Flay]

Sure, that'd work. The Mob Moll is probably a Roleblocker if you need one (either Faction). You could have some incompetent 'Goon' as a Miller...

[Mr. Flay]

People keep threatening to run ASOIAF. I think MoS was the last one, might want to see if he's still interested. Macros, too... and Mariyta. Only people whose usernames start with M- were interested until now, apparently...

[Mr. Flay]

Narnia will be hard to balance against massclaim, I'd think; only a few individuals are really of 'grey' alignment, everybody else is saint or devil.

[Mr. Flay]

Narnia will be hard to balance against massclaim, I'd think; only a few individuals are really of 'grey' alignment, everybody else is saint or devil.

Isn't that what the old trick of leaving out some good guys and giving the scum fakeclaims is for? I'm not that familiar with Narnia, but still . . .

Yeah, it is. I just personally dislike "Theme" games where role alignments are completely divorced from their canonical alignment. It tends to punish knowledge of the theme, rather than reward it.

[Mr. Flay]

...and a bunch of the roles I was going to use just got removed from the internets

Huh?

[Mr. Flay]

IF A SIMPLE POSTING RESTRICTION IS TAME ENOUGH THAT I CAN STILL CALL THIS GAME A 'MINI NORMAL' I CAN GET /IN THE MOD QUEUE RIGHT NOW. IF NOT SOMEONE ELSE WILL NEED TO MOD THIS. OFFICIAL CLARIFICATION WOULD BE AWESOME ON THIS POINT.

Talk to MeMe (or perhaps Thesp, since he's reviewing Normals). Generally post restrictions are not sufficient to kick it out of Normal, but they have final say.

OH, AND IF THE GAME FILLS WITH PRE-IN'S, DO I STILL NEED TO WAIT FOR THE QUEUE? I IMAGINE SO BUT IT'D BE REALLY COOL IF WE COULD JUST ROCK OUT AND GO.

You must sign up for the Queue to run a game.

When your name gets to the top of the list

, you can start the game, whether that's with pre-ins or new signups or something in between. You

cannot

jump the line just by having 12 pre-ins. It just saves you a week or so of signups, and usually means your players are less likely to flake on you.

[Mr. Flay]

What's the incentive for spectators? More importantly, how do you word it so that players don't get involved? Is the spectator thread 'private', like Convict was?

[Mr. Flay]

Just remember that such a mechanism will likely help out the town since the spectators are more likely than not going to assume the role of a unkillable vanilla townie.

That's why I wanted spectators to be a private thread. Still have to deal with alts, of course, but you've gotta trust your players at SOME point. I agree with modkilling any players found in the spectator thread.

[Mr. Flay]

I think we're talking about two very different games; either

could

work and be balanced, but I'm only interested in Secret Spectators.

[Mr. Flay]

How does Coalition resist the RPS problem (as soon as one Mafia is somewhat depleted, it will be exterminated)? I don't really understand the mechanism, even with your explanation. What is Town made up of? N Townies vs. N scum, even in 3 factions, seems underpowered.

[Mr. Flay]

Eh. I wouldn't want to play in a game with Economist role mechanics, but I'm sure there are some who would. You might try to get a smaller chat/Marathon Day version going to test out the bugs/actual play effects.

[Mr. Flay]

Yeah, that's kinda.... bastardly. I mean, early-game is normally when you're going to lynch wrong, anyway (dunno why it didn't work out that way in this game).

[Mr. Flay]

Castlevania - Symphony of the Night
Dresden Files based on the early books
Brotherhood of the Wolf

I would think any of those would play pretty well here, Magna...

[Mr. Flay]

DP's ongoing Geezer Mafia is probably a good read for a leisurely game. We've had only probably the average number of replacements for a 20p game, but posting requirements are practically nil (once a week is good) and yet we've managed at least some segments of high-intensity posting, usually late in the Day. Each Day seems to be running ~4-5 weeks.

I think a forced 'you can only post once a week' would kill the momentum entirely, though...

[Mr. Flay]

Yeah, I have a hard time seeing how that could work. I've seen games that outright vote people PRs or NK-immunity or whatever, but trying to do it on a per-post basis? Oi...

[Mr. Flay]

Hmm.... I like the idea, to a point. The one problem with that is if town decides to mass point give to a player who is scum.

I don't understand - if Town gives points/a pass/free lynches to a Scum player, they almost

always

lose (and

deserve

to). That's sort of the point of the game as Town... if you trust the wrong person/people too much, you die.

How are you envisioning play that wouldn't be susceptible to that problem??

[Mr. Flay]

Weird Al sounds like a trip.

[Mr. Flay]

Biggest game ever tried here was (IIRC) 54 players. It died a massive death.

I think one succeeded that was 50, but I can't remember which one. Several in the 30s have worked... 100? Good Luck.

[Mr. Flay]

has anyone ever run a Hitchhiker's Guide mafia?

2006 mini: http://mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=3382
2003 mini: http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewto ... ?f=23&t=81
Mini 34 was also apparently HHGTTG, but it may be lost to the Crash.

I think there was also one more recently...

[Mr. Flay]

Also Tuthreded: http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewto ... ?f=3&t=620 and http://www.mafiascum.net/archive/viewto ... ?f=3&t=607

[Mr. Flay]

Does help with the Even Number problem though - with 6 players, instead of needing 66% of the votes to get majority (4/6), you'd only need 58% (7/12). And when you've got even suspicion, it helps emphasize the split until you can resolve it later in the Day.

I feel like it's been done before, but I can't think when/what game.

[Mr. Flay]

Google is your friend, CML.
http://mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?t=3651
http://mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?t=6617

And yes, I expect there would be interest in another game set in the Whoniverse.

[Mr. Flay]

Put

site:mafiascum.net

into your search - helps immensely.

[Mr. Flay]

There have been a game or two where you 'buy' night powers with points or karma or something, but I'm not sure I've ever seen one where they all just flip randomly.

You'd pretty much have to advertise it as such to avoid pissing people off, but it could work. Beware of the "Cop, then Vig" combo, that could get ugly fast.

[Mr. Flay]

I hated being dropped into Battle Mage's Mystery games - but since you'd have the option here, it doesn't sound TOO bad. Still, it's a bit more like an Invitational unless you've got some sort of neutral algorithm to pick players, so you'd have to go through mith.

[Mr. Flay]

Time Travel Mafia

The origin of this variant seems to be the German Mafia website http://mafiaspiel.de. At least that is where I read about it.

Not unless they were playing it back in like...2003?

(I know, I know, TT = paradox, shut up)

[Mr. Flay]

You guys should look up Tree Stump Mafia - the Tree Stump is basically a dead confirmed town role that can talk. I don't remember what the general consensus is on its power, but since your version isn't self-confirmed, that should help.

[Mr. Flay]

I would either play or (more likely) co-mod Boondock Saints. I've got 3/4 of a setup kicking around somewhere already...

[Mr. Flay]

Also: Who should I ask if my first mod could be a mini-Theme?

The rules say the first one needs to be an Open or Mini Normal...but I think I'd do a whole lot better with a Room mini theme.

hasdgfas. Be prepared to bring a game you've modded offsite that qualifies as experience.

Actually, I think mith has to approve off-site experience for modding, unless it's changed recently... best just to copy both of them.

[Mr. Flay]

I had an idea for a game I call Night Shift Mafia.

Divide a 14-16 player group into 7-8 player groups. Game time is divided into two equal halves based on time (8 RL days per phase?) during which a lynch does not need to be reached. Vote counts from the day will carry on to the night and vice versa. The day shift players may post during the day phase and use their powers during the night phase. The night shift players use their powers during the day phase and may post during the night.

Balance could potentially be a huge issue, but I think it could possibly be resolved by a clever mod (more clever than I, anyway). Alignment flips would make this idea super swingy, so the only way I could forsee it being run effectively would be to scramble the player pools at regular intervals or to not do alignment flips.

This might just be a pipe dream, but what do you guys think?

Isn't that basically Tuthreded without the transport option? I'm not sure what would be so difficult about it balance-wise, but it doesn't seem like it'd be very interesting, either... what am I missing?

::edit:: Tuthreded Mafia:
http://mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?t=607 (Ship thread)
http://mafiascum.net/archive/viewtopic.php?t=620 (Planet thread)

[Mr. Flay]

War in Heaven III is coming this year. When should I do it, spring, summer, or fall? This will be a Large Theme game, obviously. Deadlines and such should run comparative to the last one, so it'll last somewhere between 3 days and 3 months, I'm guessing.

Size is up for grabs (possibly indefinite, if mith buys my plan).

[Mr. Flay]

War in Heaven III is coming this year. When should I do it, spring, summer, or fall? This will be a Large Theme game, obviously. Deadlines and such should run comparative to the last one, so it'll last somewhere between 3 days and 3 months, I'm guessing.

Size is up for grabs (possibly indefinite, if mith buys my plan).

I'd say summer or fall, because I'm going to be in hiatus for the entirety of spring and I want to play this. (Also, I'm currently planning on running a Large Theme incorporating hurt/heal-based mechanics in early-mid summer, so you might want to take that into consideration.)

Makes sense. I'll probably spend the spring working on code, then.

[Mr. Flay]

Could be interesting - thematically there's enough internal conflict to make all of the roles Skeksis (or Gelflings in puppet costumes, maybe). But don't get too tied up in what 'makes sense'... people here have a lot of tolerance for roles not being outed immediately by the fact that they're a ring or a 10" ball of fluff with teeth.

But god help you if you misspell a role name...

[Mr. Flay]

Tuthreded Mafia? There was another one more recently, but I can't recall the name of it right now...

[Mr. Flay]

explain what part?

[Mr. Flay]

I remember reading a game where the Town had Mafia flavor and the Mafia had Town flavor (i.e. the Town was the informed minority with a faction kill, Mafia was the uninformed majority).

Can I get the link, and what are the opinions on this?

Mafia 29 is one; Space Monkey Mafia is the more famous example, because the scum didn't realize they were the IM at first.

Mafia 29 had one IM without a night

kill

and one without night

talk

, IIRC. Not easy on those teams.

[Mr. Flay]

I'm certain I have no idea what you're talkiing about.

[/abusing stealth edit powers]

[Mr. Flay]

Ah, my mistake. Been a while since I looked at that game. So town thought THEY were a no-nighttalk scum group, at first?

[Mr. Flay]

I can't put my finger on it, but

I don't like Dichotomy AT ALL. You're doing at least half of the PR-hunting for the scum, and it actually increases the swing in a lot of ways (Oh, I'm sorry that the Cop claimed D2 and you hit the Townie instead of the Doc... you'll have to wait until Day 7 to kill the Doc now).

If you could work up a PR list that had absolutely zero synergy within it, AND could reliably rank them from least effective for town to most effective for town, then maybe.

[Mr. Flay]

My brain spewed forth the start of 'Megadeth Mafia' today - all roles will be in the form of Songs. Can't decide if it should be UPick or Bastard Mod Picks...

[Mr. Flay]

I would suggest making the two games dependent. If one game is in the Day, the other should be in the Night.

I like this idea. The other sounds hellishly confusing and not-fun-adding.

[Mr. Flay]

Anyone want to help me make a Boondock saints themed Mafia?

I've got half of one done.

[Mr. Flay]

Sure, but not for at least a week.

[Mr. Flay]

It sounds truly beautiful. But wouldn't that be mini theme?

I'll help, if you want.

I think Ant is saying "I'm at the bottom of the MN queue now, so it will be a while before I can run this LT idea".

My only suggestion is to run the idea by mith (and by idea, I mean some of what you're actually planning on using). We've had some 'racy' games that worked, and some that flamed out spectacularly.

[Mr. Flay]

Is the Defcon series working better than Yos' MAD series? If so, I'd be interested...

[Mr. Flay]

Do you have a type of flavor in mind, or just anything goes?

[Mr. Flay]

Have you seen the Hurt/Heal mechanic?

[Mr. Flay]

I've been working on an RPG-style Mafia with classes and skill trees, but alas not with an HP system (i.e. it still has lynches + NKs). Not true DnD but it has some of the same elements.
On the other hand, Parama's

Calculus Mafia

has got a kind of HP system, basically the Hurt/Heal mechanic that Flay linked to. You could always take a look at it and see it in action, to see how you think it'd work out for you?

I am not doing anything even RESEMBLING that. But it looks awesome.

No, as I said, lynching is normal, special actions deal damage.

What is damage used for, then? Can everyone do damage, and you could end up with multiple deaths some Nights? I'm not following...

[Mr. Flay]

People will play anything, don't you worry.

Not true, my Gormengast Mafia died in the queue, at like 8/16...

[Mr. Flay]

It's not Mafia.

[Mr. Flay]

Anybody interested in a

ripoff

/homage to the original Dune Mafia?

[Mr. Flay]

Please do! Or be my comod/I'll be yours... I've done nothing toward the game yet, just kicking the tires to see if there's interest.

[Mr. Flay]

Does anyone even read this thread?

Yup.

I have no idea what Homestuck is, though.

[Mr. Flay]

Seems like we had a Night/Day game like that years ago, but damned if I can remember the name.

[Mr. Flay]

Themes/flavors can be run again, you know.

[Mr. Flay]

I think requiring the play of an offsite game will a) decrease the available pool of players (though I don't play LoL so I may be completely offbase here) and b) increase the chance of game info leaking out of thread.

Also, be very careful with items that you do not build unstoppable combos. PARTICULARLY if Nightless.

[Mr. Flay]

You mean obsessive types who want to fiddle and mess with things to figure them out?? Can't imagine they'd want to come here.

[Mr. Flay]

Sorry, who are you?

[Mr. Flay]

Quite a bit, thankfully.

[Mr. Flay]

Huh. That might be fun, actually.

[Mr. Flay]

I don't see a connection between alignment and posting restriction.

I don't think there is one - it's just a flavor skin.

[Mr. Flay]

This came to me in a fit of boredom:

Pacifist Mafia.

No lynches, no nightkills.

Obviously, players have to be removed from the game somehow, but not through death. They are just perhaps trapped in an underground bunker controlled by the opposite faction until the game is over, then there is much rejoicing and celebration.




Hmmm. It seemed better before I typed it all out.

Nothing to see here; move along.

You're missing any mechanism for ending the game, unless you just reskin it as a 'points' game where certain people are flagged as scum for when the bunker opens? Then it's like a No Reveal Nightless No Exit...

[Mr. Flay]

Alright, so I'm trying to design my original theme trilogy... and I have two different options to go with. One is very sci-fi, involving aliens and other planets and government conspiracies... the other is very dystopian, taking place just after the "apocalypse" with the world trying to rebuild. I have a lot of room to go with the stories. I like the design process of the stories, so if anyone wants to take part in helping create the full universe these games will exist in, I'm looking for a brainstormpartner.

When are you looking to start? I might want something to work on after WiH3 ends...

[Mr. Flay]

Working out a game mechanic, just want to see if anyone has heard or played of something similar?

Basic concept is a set of switches controlled by the players effect the power of the town or scumteam or both.

A little like Pick Your Poison or buy-a-power games, yes?

[Mr. Flay]

ANYBODY familiar with Elizabeth Bear's Jacob's Ladder series (

Dust, Chill, Grail

)? I'm seeing nanotech-based roles...

[Mr. Flay]

Has a Pokemon themed game been run before?

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=18781
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=12130
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=11977
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=212

Search is your friend. Which isn't to say you shouldn't run one, but your first question is an easy one...

[Mr. Flay]

Yeah, it's a cool concept but would be a nightmare to mod/adjudicate. You'd have to have a strong social contract with players not to 'prove' themselves by unspoofable means.

The single-hydra-to-multiple-accounts evolution is awesome, however.

[Mr. Flay]

If this were a thread about the Inheritance Cycle, I'd agree with you; but this is Theme Test Market. People don't KNOW they're going to come across spoilers right away.

[Mr. Flay]

Even if they didn't send one of their own you'd still want to just ignore them.

Yeah, without some sort of forced anonymity I can't see how you'd get the Scum Councilor to have any effect.

[Mr. Flay]

Big is not good. people should stop trying to do this. a game should be as big as the concept needs or smaller, but it should never be the starting point "oh i want to run a 50 person game" is a terrible way to design a game.

Exactly.

War in Heaven III was a 36-player game, but that's where a balance point lay, not because it was just designed to be a record smasher (it wasn't, by the way).

[Mr. Flay]

Why 48 and not 24 though? Seems momentum-killing...

Also, by the rule you posted the first person to vote has a majority of votes placed, and achieves their lynch target immediately? I assume that's an oversight.

[Mr. Flay]

But the first vote cast is by definition a majority of votes cast. So 1 vote = 1 lynch.

::edit:: Ninja'd.

Also,

Why 48 and not 24 though? Seems momentum-killing...

I was misreading on this. I thought it was one post per 48 hours (which it still kinda is, but... nevermind)

[Mr. Flay]

About "time" for another Time Travel incursion, wouldn't you say??

[Mr. Flay]

Exactly.

[Mr. Flay]

I'd be interested in running a variant called Texas Mafia. (named after the two hole cards in Texas Hold 'Em) Essentially, everyone gets two role 'cards' which, together, make up their role. Goon/Villager, for example, is a Vanilla Goon. Goon/Neighbor would be neighbors with whoever held the other neighbor card. Cards assignments are totally random, with only outlandish combinations being prohibited. (Goon/Cop, Neighbor/Neighbor, etc)

We call that type of set-up Smalltown.

[Mr. Flay]

Neither is your Texas Mafia much like our Texas Mafia. Terminology abounds.

Empking: It certainly sounds like he's talking about Role/Faction split. If that's not what he means by "Goon/Villager = Vanilla Goon", then perhaps I'm mistaken, but it didn't sound like it.

[Mr. Flay]

Eh, fair enough. I run mutations of both, so I get them confused occasionally.

[Mr. Flay]

Yeah, that's a bit of a different animal, then. Cool, we like variants!

On the naming...you can of course keep the name you're familiar with, and just accept that you'll get some grief/confusion. Or you could go with something more descriptive like... Dual Role Mafia? Binary Mafia? Two-Face Mafia?

[Mr. Flay]

the original game had two priests (note: not the Mafiawiki Priest) who enabled role reveal.

[Mr. Flay]

I think just rerolling roles and maybe disallowing quotes should be sufficient. Some people will read the old games, some won't, but trying to 'vanish' them won't work.

[Mr. Flay]

Oh derp. Thought it was like the old game construct where a game concluded and then was 'rerolled' with the winning faction(s) playing again.

Ignore 3820 then.

[Mr. Flay]

Just curious: anyone want a game based on TWEWY?

Haven't a clue what that is.

[Mr. Flay]

Anyone interested in a Hacker-esque mafia game?

Explain more? I mean probably there's interest, but a risk with that stuff is the 'it doesn't work like you think in the movies' argument you might get.

[Mr. Flay]

RPing is generally looked on as interfering with the goal of Mafia, which is figuring out the person's true motivations. Since Town generally has no need to lie, it muddies the waters.

[Mr. Flay]

Smalltown setup may be what you're looking for? Public profession, secret role/alignment...

[Mr. Flay]

Yeah, aliased games have not historically worked well, for all the reasons Sajin mentioned.

If the Post Masking feature ever gets off the ground, it might be a time to try something like that again.

[Mr. Flay]

I have put together a 13 player geology themed game, if 2 or 3 people would like to look at it to make sure it is fair/balanced it'd be great
I don't want to post it here as it'll reveal details. pm me if you wanna look at it

Wrong thread: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=5379

[Mr. Flay]

The other option would be running all the PMs by a neutral person in the Commune who also knows everyone and could tell me if something wasn't acceptable.

Personally, I think this would be best. It shouldn't be hard to find someone from the Commune/area who isn't going to have time to play. Add them to the review group.

[Mr. Flay]

...wut?

[Mr. Flay]

Define "controls" - why wouldn't the Town always direct the RB to a Townie, and the scum always direct the JK to a (suspected) PR?

Are you thinking of the Enabler modifier?