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[curiouskarmadog]

checking in..input tomorrow.

bque today.

[curiouskarmadog]

ok rereading the game mechanics so I make sure I got....will post something later.

[curiouskarmadog]

speaking of lurker scum....

Mod: going to be on vacation between 11th to the 19th.

Will try to post my thoughts today...just trying to get my head around the game and the phases. Still confused....will post something today and ask whatever questions (though probably will come off daft I am sure.)

[curiouskarmadog]

Ok, getting caught up..think I understand the game now..typing as reading.
Scot gets the conversation started with talks of random decisions for future abilities…of course he did say this on page two when there was absolutely nothing to go on right now.

I feel that Ren is doing a lot of reaching…haven’t decided if he is trying to get shit started (scum hunting) or seeing what the town buys and going with that.

should both tracker abilities go to the same creative team to mitigate the risk of scot being scum and the risk of 1/2 of a creative team being scum?

this is why I like adel. protown out of the box thinking. for some reason I thought one power per team...I think this might be a good idea.

Seraphim's first post in the QT stated that one player on the team was scum.

The thought hadn't occurred to me, I hadn't read the rules yet. Now I read the rules, but I'm still somewhat unclear on the concept.

Seraphim knew right off the bat that there was scum in our group.

I am not seeing where he said that

Post 101-105, Ren looks really scummy here….not sure how Sera indicated any scum knowledge.

Reading, on, boils down to Ren “believes” you are implying…that is not how you presented the information in this thread.

And read the entire thread. Directed to Seraphim

106: I like the deflection there onto ren, and the overreaction to the accusation put forward by ren does not go down well with me either, to be completely honest

On my god, 2 of my favorite scum tell catches in one sentence….bullshit overreaction accusation and the term “to be honest”. Only I think FL and I have bumped heads over this term before (and he was town)….what was an overreaction in his reply?..what would a normal reaction be?

+++

List of roles from most important to least important:

CD
CEO
Creative Team Members
Acc Team Members

~~~

1. The CD assigns PGO+Tracker to one Creative Team, and Bussdriver to another Creative team. Which teams he picks remains secret until the next day.
2. The Creative team assigned PGO+Tracker assigns PGO to one member and Tracker to the Other.
3. The Tracker tracks anyone besides his Creative partner. He does not tell his partner who he tracked until the next day.
4. The Busdriver switches 2 of any players not on a different creative team from himself (he picks two from: CEO, CD, Acc Team, and his own creative team partner). He does not tell his partner who he picked until the next day.

The important part is that the Tracker can only be safely targeted by the scum if his partner (The PGO) is scum. We will get his results, guaranteed.

The CEO or the CD will be one probable target for the scum kill. The bus driver gets to throw up wifom by probably switching one of them with a member of the Acc team.

I like this plan. Of course, I had to really think about it and how it works. I think I got it, anyway. Worried the fucking game might be above my mental capacity.

At any rate,

Vote tracker.

Any reason you think the mod included 2 trackers today as an option? Is there something I missing here?

Also sens, can you elaborate on why you think Sera is scummy?

[curiouskarmadog]

Also sens, can you elaborate on why you think Sera is scummy?

A combination of factors.

For one, presenting a self-meta as a reason that supposedly says 'everything I'm doing that you think is scummy is just me'. The other reasons are what his 'meta' was explaining as Town, like the eagerness to lynch, and such.

that seems reasonable....I was just checking.

[curiouskarmadog]

On my god, 2 of my favorite scum tell catches in one sentence….bullshit overreaction accusation and the term “to be honest”. Only I think FL and I have bumped heads over this term before (and he was town)….what was an overreaction in his reply?..what would a normal reaction be?

Also, the overreaction to me comes when people start bolding words in their sentences (101, 105). Maybe my view on this is mistaken, like your honestly thing, but I do see those as signs of losing composure.

Also, CKD, how do you feel at putting tracker at hammer again, especially in regards to my fake vote plan?

the "honesty" belief recently got my ass hung...I still feel that it is a subconsicous thing, but recently been proved wrong, (shrug).

I hate it when say being overreactive is scummy. Maybe because I play so hot most of the time...still rubs me the wrong way.

[curiouskarmadog]

CKD, can you answer this

"Also, CKD, how do you feel at putting tracker at hammer again, especially in regards to my fake vote plan?"

not sure what you are asking? fake vote plan?

[curiouskarmadog]

I guess you mean this.

While, I am already noticing that people are paying attention to what each other are saying, I still feel that a fakevote in deciding should be the way to go, rather than assigning the ability to just 6(+) people that could be misguided. This way, acc execs that go against the will of town, get the hammah

Are you saying the town should get to decide who Scot gives power to BEFORE the powers are given out? No I dont like that idea at all. Or are you saying that the town should decide EXACTLY HOW the powers should be used....I dont like that idea at all. I dont think i am understanding what you are exactly saying here, becuase both seems quite scummy....Scum do not need to know anything about where and who are getting roles.

[curiouskarmadog]

I see..you want the town..to fakevote what roles they wanted....thats fine.

has there been a plan yet that didnt involve a tracker?

[curiouskarmadog]

also, I have no issue with that (just to see what other's "thoughts" are)....

[curiouskarmadog]

ok so is everyone fine with PGO?

[curiouskarmadog]

vote PGO

[curiouskarmadog]

vote bus driver.

[curiouskarmadog]

FL, thoughts?

[curiouskarmadog]

well, you wanted everyone to "fake" vote...but there was little to no response to that...I wondered what your thoughts were on that.

[curiouskarmadog]

in regards to the first phase, when will a compromise be harder to reach? And what was the compromise now?

I guess my problem is I find your statement, much to do about nothing. I mean, I am fine with it, but have no clue why you made such a big deal out of it. Adel brought forward a decent plan and the majority agreed with it. Why bring up the fakevote after? No one really fakevoted to include yourself which is another thing that bothered me....why did you wait to fakevote if you felt it was so important?

[curiouskarmadog]

I am back (sort of)...will be spending my Sunday getting caught up on internet stuff...so will post something then..have not read thread....

[curiouskarmadog]

Last game to update. Posting as reading.
Updating (re)reading from page 11.

Sucks that we didn't have a random voting stage as now the game is really stalled. So in an effort to solve this.

Vote: Seraphim

For reasons previously stated and to get the discussion going

Vote: FL

Why would you possibly be disappointed that we have 11 pages of game-related stuff to vote based on, rather than nothing?

what is in that 11 pages that you find important? I guess it wasnt more important than FL's first post at this stage. Was it really worth a vote?
==

Occam's razor suggests very strongly that I am a paranoid townie. To suggest otherwise, as you have, is scummy.

yuck...I mean just yuck. Like you are writting a handbook on how not look like scum. Ballsy statement to say. Don’t know if I understand

your

logic in the rest of the post.

Ren wagon swells fast.

Ren lives up to his avatar in 314….

==
Sera is dead.

Ren unvotes is self vote and more WIFOM.

More yuck from Ren

I thought I was at L-1. That was the incorrect count I was posting. It's not impossible that I unintentionally mislead the scum into thinking I was at L-1.

He is quickly corrected, though.

Sens voting today seems

does

opportunistic. What points (that are not yours) brought up about FL are good? Please explain in your words.

Yes, I'm very happy with my vote on Ren right now, though I think scot and FL are also likely Scum.

why?..do you think they are all scum together? Why is scot scum?

Ren wraps up his post by calling me opportunistic, despite the fact that (if memory serves), I was the first person to go after FL.

so? What does being the first person to attack have to do with being opportunistic. Your inital attack of FL was a stretch...and fucking huge stretch. you dropped your vote when a bigger wagon arises, and only pick up the attack on FL when Adel does (which I think is another stretch). Now you are trying to paint scot as scum too…..wonder if him voting you has anything to do with it.

Vote Sens.

Adel your thoughts on Sens? What do you think of his vote at the start of the phase? Your thoughts on his wagon? Your current position on ren?

[curiouskarmadog]

still waiting on these answers.

Yes, I'm very happy with my vote on Ren right now, though I think scot and FL are also likely Scum.

why?..do you think they are all scum together? Why is scot scum?

Ren wraps up his post by calling me opportunistic, despite the fact that (if memory serves), I was the first person to go after FL.

so? What does being the first person to attack have to do with being opportunistic? Your inital attack of FL was a stretch...and fucking huge stretch. you dropped your vote when a bigger wagon arises, and only pick up the attack on FL when Adel does (which I think is another stretch). Now you are trying to paint scot as scum too…..wonder if him voting you has anything to do with it.

[curiouskarmadog]

ckd, I've answered those questions.

ok, please provide the post number...I seemed to have missed it.

[curiouskarmadog]

ckd, I've answered those questions.

No you didn't. You especially haven't explained why you believe me to be scum.

please provide a post, sens.

[curiouskarmadog]

ckd, I've answered those questions.

No you didn't. You especially haven't explained why you believe me to be scum.

please provide a post, sens.

confirm vote Sens..

caught you in a pile of bullshit..you try to lie yourself out of it, thinking I will let it go.....not going away.

I'm hugely disappointed with CKD's lack of substance in this game.

why, because I am not joining your wagon against cry?...or because I am attacking your scum buddy?

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm annoyed that sens apparently has the time to constantly post in other games and other threads on the site but yet he can't answer a simple question of why he thinks I am scum. Him constantly ignoring that question which a few people have asked him is condemning.

I think that your attack on me was bullshit and opprtunistic.

so am I scum too?

[curiouskarmadog]

After a week of inactivity the thread speeds up 2-3 pages..updating as reading.

@Sens, what do you think of Yosarian2?

why sens and yos2 in this question? What triggered you to ask this?

--
Adel’s 458 post (thanks for sharing)

What the hell is “normal”?

What happened in between the “take whatever you want post” and “nm, I will take tracker.”

Sens, why didn’t you post about “RL issues” in the thread?
--

I'm not willing to let Sens get lynched today. I do not think he is scum.

bold statement, if you are scum or town.

--

unvote, vote:Goatrevolt

look at his last three posts in this game, and http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/search.p ... Goatrevolt to see why

thats a good catch...Goat?

Goat answers this the next post (and hour later). Immediately I thought this was scummy, until I read the post. IF you take Goat’s post for face value, makes scot look good. Goat, why did you pick Sera for the end target?
--

scotmany: Now that everything's revealed, mind sharing why you chose which group to do what?

Out of the six of them, I trusted Yos and Adel the most. Out of everyone, I trusted Yos the most to make a good decision with the busdriver. I'm glad that tracker ended up with Adel, because regardless of my suspicion of Sens, I'd rather him have the investigative role than Sens.

Don't you think SensScum would have grabbed the Tracker ability?

Guess I better pull up my socks, WIFOM just rolled in.

Though I do have a question, Adel is that the complete chat? Did you ask Sens if you could post it before you did?

Whatever.

It looks to me like you're just looking for anything to call me scummy, and I don't have the patience or the time to care anymore. Hell, if I had known you and ckd were playing, I wouldn't have signed up, and you know that. So stop doing everything you can to piss me off.

This is a game, its supposed to be fun.

OMFG, either you are town (and I have been in your shoes plenty of times so I feel your pain) or you are scum, trying to appeal to emotion. I am looking for scum, not trying to piss you off. This reaction is ridiculous and you are taking it personal. As I doubt you are capable of pulling the whole "look at poor me thing" off as scum, I am going to chalk it up to you are a whiny town

unvote,

quit being a whiny bitch and man up. If you cant handle some LIGHT accusations (you have 2 god damn votes) then maybe you should considered Bejeweled as a game for you. That being said, if you are scum, I am keep this fucking game as a meta and will use it on you every time you remotely come close to whining again.
--

Waiting on some answers to questions...

[curiouskarmadog]

for adel

--

What happened in between the “take whatever you want post” and “nm, I will take tracker.”

[curiouskarmadog]

when have you even been blown away by the strength of an argument on day 1?

later in the game with scot still alive a living FL-scum could appoint another player to be CD, and we would be stuck with that player as CD or we would have to choose to be without powerroles. With FL dead we will have an insurance policy on scot, so that we will be able to get another confirmed player to take his place should he die. FL-scum has the power to sabotage our ability to keep a confirmed player in the CD role, and our ability to keep a CD alive in this game.

Dammit, I got a question about this theory that might be important, but dont know how to ask it without helping FL-scum.....

this theory seems flawed to me.

[curiouskarmadog]

I understood the plan, just seemed...ehhh? The problem for me was FLscum would screw us later so we need to kill him now....but if FLscum was indeed scum, then he would screw us anyway, seemed flawed...but as Adel stated, it had to be quick....and it was...if FL was scum, it would have paid off.

agree with current plan.

got jailkeeper.

vote: Tracker

[curiouskarmadog]

vote tracker

[curiouskarmadog]

curious adel, what has sens done or not done that has given you such a town read on him (pre whiny townie post)?

[curiouskarmadog]

not played up to his level, and I take a lack of investment as a town tell for him.

interesting..

is there a game that set that level for you? does his involvement differ from a lurker?

for the record, this is the most active I have seen him in game....

[curiouskarmadog]

vote bulletproof..

looking at adel's posted games with Sens..., but thinking that it will probably make since for Adeltown to think Sens is town.

[curiouskarmadog]

@CKD, I don't know how you can look at Sen's little tirade and call it a town tell. If anything it is a slight scum tell due to him dismissing our attacks on him as trying to piss him off.

I dont think he could pull that off. I have been in his shoes (perhaps that is "appeals to emotion"). I have seen others pull that shit, but his seem geniune. I havent written him off completely, but for now not seeing it.

also, that is another reason I am checking on Adel's links. has he done it before (especially in the scum game)?

[curiouskarmadog]

two points,

I have played with a TSQ alt before....he spammed the thread with the word "fuck" until he was replaced or mod killed (dont recall)..I have also played with TSQ...whose play was good....

It is my opinion that Sens isnt the best player in the world. this isnt an insult, just my opinion..I have not been in a game where he has contributed ANYTHING so when you say "That's not a town reaction at all" I tend to agree with you because I dont feel he is a protown player. I think I have only played with him as town.

when I get the time, I want to look at these games Adel posted. both adel and Sens are painting a picture of a better Sens player....I actually would like to see what that looks like...for two reasons...i am curious...and Adel is partially using it to clear him.

[curiouskarmadog]

The fact that you continue to try to smear Ren despite the fact he can only be scum if Goat is also scum is ridiculous Adel.

QFT
---

Also, vollkan are you trying out a new playstyle?..if so why? I have seen you as scum and town, and this playstyle is completely different. You usually have a more hands on approach also no more percentages?

[curiouskarmadog]

Yos, do you think Ren is scum?

[curiouskarmadog]

I actually disagree...I dont think Adel/Sens scum pair makes any sense....going to post my thoughts on the matter shortly...no time at the moment.

[curiouskarmadog]

also I dont think Ren is surprised that you (yos) dont see adel as scummy.

[curiouskarmadog]

At first my feeling about Adel being scum has been gut. It might have something to do with a meta that I think I have on Adel. However, the problem with meta is that any decent scum player (and Adel is a bit more that “decent”) is that they are always changing. It is the same feeling I have about vollkan. The problem is I have been away from the game for 6 months and people change (sometimes even sexes).

So meta and gut aside, why do I think Adel is scum.

1.) First and for most was his defense of Sens. Sens was acting quite scummy. His (sens) attack and vote of FL (town) was stretchy at best. Adeltown has nothing to gain by defending Sens especially in light of his actions. Adelscum defending Senstown on the other hand not only gains a buddy, but if Sens flips town, buys himself town creds.

Adel didn’t come out defending at first. In true Adel fashion he waited to see what best suited his game.

Adel your thoughts on Sens? What do you think of his vote at the start of the phase? Your thoughts on his wagon? Your current position on ren?

I'm holding my cards close to my chest for now. I want other players to contribute more, and I don't want to serve as a pathfinder for the scum to get a mislynch.

The first statement was utter nonsense. Adel had been spouting who he thought was scummy for awhile. SO why wait? At first I read this second sentence one way, but rereading it looks odd. Why would hanging Sens be serving as a pathfinder to get a mislynch? I don’t know Sens alignment…would lynching sens be a mislynch?

This is another reason I now think Sens is town. I whiny bitchy town…but town none the less.

To me I have a big problem with this chain of events.

Sens attacks FL with stretchy vote.
Adel keeps feeling about Sens close to chest
Scot and I attack Sens
Adel “not willing to let Sens get lynched today”
Sens whines (I back off)
Adel attacks FL with tactics.

I understood Adel’s FL plan. Though I felt it was hugely flawed. It was tactically correct if done quickly by design, but at any time FLscum could have screwed us. Adel had a case against FL before her strategic point….so did Sens. Neither point stuck. It feels like you exploited that strategic point to push your agenda, which was to get FL lynched. Defending Sens as town falls into line with that agenda.


2.) Something about Adel’s 180 in taking the tracker role in their QT thread. One post he offers Sens whatever role he wants, the very next post, Adel takes Tracker. I would like to know what really happened to make adel change his mind. Nothing in the game happened during that time (post 268-270, if I am going my times right) …Though Adel was active on the site at that time…just not in the game. I thinking there was planning going on during that time and that is why you snatched up tracker so fast.

You also stated that you wanted to track goat(more on this next)…had you mentioned any where at this time that felt goat was scummy? During that period of time(between QT posts), you voted vollkan, not goat. I had to ask adel twice to answer the question and finally got a:

for adel

--

What happened in between the “take whatever you want post” and “nm, I will take tracker.”

I thought about it, and decided that I had a strong hunch on who to investigate, and that I didn't really trust Sens.

Please vote for FL now.

I looked over this answer at the time because I was so pissed at Sens reaction. How did you get that strong hunch? Why didn’t you trust Sens, he had a chance to take the tracker role, but didn’t.


3.) the whole goat thing. I think it is convenient that you just happened to target goat (without having much if any suspicion on him) to confirm exactly what he had already claimed.

4.)

That leaves:
vollkan
curiouskarmadog
OGML
Yos2
TDC
Budja

as my lynch candidates. I do not have a preference at this time.

then turns around and starts painting ren as scummy again. IF ren isn’t a lynch candidate for you today, why are you spending your time discrediting him?

5.) Adel lack of putting a case together on anyone. Many time, I have seen adel tunnel vision as town and relentlessly attack who he thought was scum. Twice being on the receiving end of that. This game, he is heavily using game mechanics, lurker theory, and OOG reasoning to lightly push who he “feels is scummy”. Your list of candidates is too wide of a net.

Vote Adel

[curiouskarmadog]

WTF?....have only skimmed...will try to comment later.

[curiouskarmadog]

Sunday post coming....

[curiouskarmadog]

Updating as (re)reading from y Adel case on page 29..

Also, I want to see both Sens and Adel's reactions to what has occurred recently.

this is funny seeing what has occured since.
==

1.) First and for most was his defense of Sens. Sens was acting quite scummy. His (sens) attack and vote of FL (town) was stretchy at best. Adeltown has nothing to gain by defending Sens especially in light of his actions. Adelscum defending Senstown on the other hand not only gains a buddy, but if Sens flips town, buys himself town creds.

That's bad logic, CKD.

IF you think Sensfan is town

(and it sounds like you do, from the rest of your post),

then Adel defending him has to be considered a pro-town act

. Now, if Sensfan is scum, then Adel defending sensfan is definatly a big point against him. But I hate the "X defended Y, and Y was town, so X must have been scum!" argument you seem to be going for here. If a pro-town town person thinks someone else is town, they bloody well should defend them.

the bolded is a fucking silly statement and I think someone who has played mafia as much as you knows this. there is a big difference between someone defending someone they think are town when that person is doing towny actions AND what has happened here. Sens was being all types of scummy and Adel was defending him based on...on...I am not even sure, a fucking meta? A meta that now Sens is riding hard with lurking up a storm.

I understood Adel’s FL plan. Though I felt it was hugely flawed. It was tactically correct if done quickly by design, but at any time FLscum could have screwed us. Adel had a case against FL before her strategic point….so did Sens. Neither point stuck. It feels like you exploited that strategic point to push your agenda, which was to get FL lynched. Defending Sens as town falls into line with that agenda.

trying to get FL lynched without pointing out to FL-scum how he could screw us was tricky. Trying to get it done occupied most of my brain cycles.

Finally I had to spell it all out to get it done. I identified a 6 hour window when FL is almost never online, and posted my detailed post at the begininng of that window.

I'm pretty demoralized by some out of game events right now, and how much time I've wasted on this game. After not getting lynched for a year, I was lynched early in my last two games, and now I think that I'm also going to get lynched early in this game. Fuck mafia.

Not a lot I can say to this post, since Adel quit the game. I agree with most that his melt down was a null tell. However, I think Adel knew that I had him pinned against the wall with my case. Instaed of addressing my case, he flips out. I like adel. I think he is a good mafia player, but I think that his ego took a beating and I think I caught him with my case.

When pressed by the semi confirmed scot and goat. He really flips (730) and votes Sens for the same fucking reason that he defended him for earlier. I think this was a last chance maneuver to get anything rolling instead of his lynch.

Ha!, Scot says it better here:

I'm going to say Adel, your vote on Sens really contradicts a lot of shit that you have said so far in this game.

I am mostly just pissed Adel refused to address the majority of my points before flipping out.

==

I don't have a meta on Adel, but his play hasn't struck me as that different from normal.

Wow really? How many games have you been in with him? In my opinion, this is not typical Adeltown play. At first, I thought it was because of structure of the game, but after his wide net I am certain Adel is/was scum. Not to mention later he then abandons that net to try to discredit one of his opponents.

Also, the game mechanics has mainly been in the choosing role stage (when we definitely want game mechanics discussed) and in relation to FL.

So? He used it to lynch a townie. I understand it was “tactically” sound. But still does that make it a pro-town move? I think Adel exploited the game mechanics to push his agenda.

==
TDC killed 755

Just a thought here, why would Budscum kill his only way control powers? This makes Yos, Sens, Adel, look worse in my opinion. It is all WIFOM of course, but should be considered.

==

...How exactly does the Sens vote make sense to you Yos? This is the same person that said on several occasions that he believes Sens to be town. I don't really see how Sens not posting for about a day would make him change his mind. His Sens vote is bad, and I don't know how you can view it a sensical.

I agree....this make absolutely NO sense.
==

I'm not at all convicned by CKD's case against Adel; more to the point, if I'm right and Adel is town, the timing of CKD's case, coming after OGML got the wagon moving, makes me think he's likely scum here.

Really? What if I told you in the QT thread, I was the one that got the Adel wagon "moving"? What if it was Ren? Have a feeling you would be pushing us as scum but providing different reasons.

My best guess is that what happened here is that the scum saw the two most active townies butting heads and saw the entire town starting to splinter into two groups, and they didn't want to prevent that from happening, so they killed off someone was uninvolved in the whole mess; TDC's one of the few active players who didn't take a side in the fight.

sure, his position has nothing to do with it. again scot is right...it DOES make you (and adel/sens) worse. No way am I believing that you dont see that.

==
Jesus Christ MS brings math….not pretending to understand any of that post. To me there seems to be a ton of assumptions in it.
==

At this point I am still good with my vote on Adel/MS. Sens is also looking shitty again too. He is posting everywhere else, but now that Adel gave him his free pass(Senstown probably would not post), he is using it. I also think Yos is particularly scummy as well.

I think that Adel’s break down is a null tell, but his lack of addressing my points is again telling.

Mod it is time to prod Sens.

[curiouskarmadog]

At this point I am still good with my vote on Adel/MS. Sens is also looking shitty again too. He is posting everywhere else, but now that Adel gave him his free pass(

Senstown probably would not post

), he is using it. I also think Yos is particularly scummy as well.

Explain?

that was what Adel was saying...that sens lack of posting is a town tell for him.

[curiouskarmadog]

Yos' lurkervote is

so lame

right now.

(nods) Thank you, OGML. Yeah, he's not lurking anymore, obviously.

Unvote

Vote:CKD

I'd be willing to lynch CKD, Bruja, or Sensfan today.

why does the timing of this vote not surprise me? Why does the lack of reasoning not surprise me? Why is the avoidance of my question not surprise me?

case please.

or do you not feel is important to supply?

[curiouskarmadog]

xpost

Ok, so what if a person isn't making "townie actions", as you call them, but you think they're town for some other reason? Are you supposed to just shut up, sit back, and let them get lynched without saying anything? Of course not. If you think that a certain wagon will result in a town lynch, you should oppose it; I'm not really sure how that can even be up for debate.

there is a big difference from someone saying "hey I think X is town" and saying "I am not willing to let X be lynched today". Sens was not doing anything town. Even Adel stated in his QT that Sens was acting strange. SO if Adel REALLY thought that, why would he go out of the way to defend Sens ONLY when Sens was getting serious heat?

Why? What's wrong with Adel voting sensfan there?

Are you reading that game? Adel was voting Sens, for exactly the same reason he was defending him earlier...and only after avoiding my case.

I'm not at all convicned by CKD's case against Adel; more to the point, if I'm right and Adel is town, the timing of CKD's case, coming after OGML got the wagon moving, makes me think he's likely scum here.

Eh, I doubt it. It's pretty clear OMGL game into the game with a new perspective that was quite different from anyone else's, and that he came to different conclusions that were different; before OGML replaced in, I really think everyone thought Adel was town. I do think oppertunistic scum would take advantage of, and hide behind, an agressive player like OGML if he's wrong.

yet you didnt answer the question...before I post the QT, I want to know the fucking answer to my question, if it is discovered that I (or Ren...or vollkan) was the first person in the QT with suspicion of Adel....are you going still push that I am scum....answer now please...or is OMGL now scum for following. hint: your bullshit case is about ready to fail

Who would you expect scum to kill?

Dont know, you do have a point here....but the fact doesnt change...the TDC DOES make you, Sens, and Adel/MS look worse, if just by being alive...his kill also (in my opinion) make Bud look better

[curiouskarmadog]

Well, I actually partially disagree with it now too.

I just read (remembered) you have the ability to reassign pairs....so it doesnt make Bud look any better.

if it makes Yos look bad, why doesnt it also make Sens/Adel look bad?

[curiouskarmadog]

That's the second time you said that, CKD; why do you think Adel was defending Sensfan BECAUSE he was lurking? Adel never said anything of the sort.

so the answer is you are not reading

curious adel, what has sens done or not done that has given you such a town read on him (pre whiny townie post)?

not played up to his level, and I take a lack of investment as a town tell for him.

[curiouskarmadog]

also, what is your case again?

[curiouskarmadog]

not going to have time for any long posts until Friday

[curiouskarmadog]

(best friend's wife is giving birth today..going to try to update this today, but no promises, posting in all games)

in reference to his game...I am about 4-5 pages behind, I have been skimming but not in depth reading.

[curiouskarmadog]

ok, updating from page 34 (I think)..typing as (re)reading. Probably will be a longish post.

also, what is your case again?

(shrug) I took a good look at the game dynamics here, and tried to figure out where the scum would be. Where they would be is where you are; buddying up to OGML and perhaps Ren, generally being more of a follower.

You posted a huge case against Adel, but most of it was garbage that had nothing to do with his alignment. Changing your mind is not scummy. Defending someone is not scummy on it's own.

Basically, I think you're opportunistic scum pushing a bad wagon. You didn't give any sign in thread that you had a problem with Adel's play, until Adel seemed vulnerable. Then you jumped on him in with a huge 5 point case, but one that said very little, and frankly much of it looks like filler to me; it looks like an attempt to fake scumhunting by posting a lot of words.

First I am opportunistic for being a follower. When I suggest that maybe I could have been the first one in the QT to start heavily suspecting Adel, you ever so slightly change “opportunistic” to also mean I sensed Adel to be vulnerable? When exact was Adel vulnerable? Also, how am I buddying up with Ren and OMGL, but the reverse cant be true? Interesting how lopsided and blind your “case” is.

Unvote, Vote: Yosarian

Michel can have a day's reprieve while we take care of this.

10 bucks says CKD has no problem with you or Ren attacking me with absolutly no reason or case, despite his earlier post.

again, what makes you think they dont have a reason or case.

Unfornately, it is statements like this that slows me from voting Yos or pegging him as scum. It seems to me that Yosscum is very uninformed as to the going ons in the Acct thread. So either the QT thread is scum free or Yos is town. His play certianly doesnt seem like he is town, but this has me still leaning (atm) toward an Adel/MS lynch.

==

For what it's worth:

Everyone needs to chime in now and say if they think it was obvious that I was going to give Goat-Yos Bulletproof/Tracker.

During my read I thought it was fairly likely.

I thought it was fairly likely as well. Or at least you were going to give them BP.
==

But SensFan you've been posting all over the site.

QFMFT
==

But SensFan you've been posting all over the site.

I am assuming that the rest of the site doesn't have about six pages with massive posts he hasn't read yet.

umm, how do you know what he has read and what he hasnt read?
==

Wow really? How many games have you been in with him? In my opinion, this is not typical Adeltown play. At first, I thought it was because of structure of the game, but after his wide net I am certain Adel is/was scum. Not to mention later he then abandons that net to try to discredit one of his opponents.

Adel casts a wide net as scum? This is a game where Adel didn't seem to really have any extremely strong suspicions (understandably, imo) and so I don't think it is unreasonable to think that Adel may have been dealing with that by trying to go as broad as possible.

Then what was the point of tell us who he was willingly to lynch today, then go back on that when someone outside of the net attacks him to discredit. His suspicion list was just fluff.

I don't like Michel's vote on Ren at all. He simply pulls out a lot of calculations and assumptions, none of which are concrete.

Have you understood my reasoning? If you did, I would really like to know what part you don't consider concrete. I have explained each calculation and each assumption.

You made that post with an agenda in mind. No matter what, you were going to vote Ren at the end of your post.

I think that is what bothered me about his post. there were so many assumptions in that posts, all pointing to Ren.

He has been posting elsewhere on a REGULAR BASIS, right? Why assume that he has not read all of 6 pages with massive posts? Is that what he told you in the QT? That he hasn't read the last 6 pages?

No, he didn't tell me that. I assumed because I find it very bad taste to read the thread and not post. Being intentionally inactive is behaviour that is, in my opinion, unacceptable. Therefore, if you don't post, I'll assume that you haven't looked at the thread at all.

More assumptions to serve your purpose. You cant really believe that? I have read the thread, but lack the time to post more than just a sentence or two.

MS post (882) still seem chalked full of assumptions (and lack of assumptions) to serve an end goal.

==

Budja isn't scum. It makes no sense for BudjaScum to kill TDC.

I stated this is the QT thread as well, but downgraded the statement, forgot you have the ability to change up the teams. It is not an optimal pay for Budscum to kill TDC, but it should rule him out either. I agree however, that there are scummier players here and that the Bud vote is a waste.
==

Budja isn't scum. It makes no sense for BudjaScum to kill TDC. Even with my ability to choose new pairs it still doesn't make sense. Your Budja vote is a waste Ren.

Oh alright then.

unvote

Here' the informal count of the willing to lynch:

Yos (2) = OGML, Ren
Adel/MSH (2) = OGML, Ren
SensFan (2) = Ren, Goat
vollkan (1) = Goat

MS/Adel is scum....right now, I am only willingly to lynch Adel/MS.
==

Posting this in my sig and all ongoing games:
I just got fired from my job. V/LA until further notice.

Fuck that...he inned into another (mish mash) game.

==
Vollkan,

I took “lack of investment” to mean lurking and lack of meaningful posts. So what is your point? It certainly has nothing to do with my point. The point is that Adel and Sens clearly had an agenda. When I attacked Sens stretchy attack of FL, Adel came to Sens defense. I thought that was overly bold and asked what about Sens made Adel think he was town. That was the answer. I don’t believe it and think was a terribly weak defense. I think that Adel was going out of the way to defend Sens because he was in line with Adel’s agenda and Adel didn’t want another wagon starting. Or maybe they are scum together. But that too is overly bold to tie himself to Sensscum with such a flimsy defense. I cant see Adeltown, making such a overly bold statement for someone he is suppose to not know the alignment of.

==

[curiouskarmadog]

(got a busy week, look for a post on Friday)

in reference to this game....I dont care if someone puts up the QT thread...lack the time at the moment.

[curiouskarmadog]

two games updated...this is the last...working on it.

[curiouskarmadog]

from phone.

goat, i have never replaced out of a game before. i have been keeping up (mostly) just not enough time to post more than a sentence or two. i usually update my games on the weekends. got 2 of the 3 done before i left...will get one on sunday.

[curiouskarmadog]

Ok (re)reading and updating as I go.

In any case, I'm really wondering why no one else pointed out your statement was basically untrue. Especally CKD, who's been quite active both in this thread and that one since then. Especally considering my earlier concerns that if you are town he may have been trying to buddy up to you, I find that problematic. CKD?

I am missing this, what was the untrue statement(963)?

==

I kind of see what you mean about Adel laying back on day 1, but it seemed more like an information gathering stratagy then anything with anti-town motives to me.

I'm beginning to form the impression that it may well just be a consequence of people not liking Adel's playstyle combined with (as reflected in some of the comments I rebutted) a gut-based suspicion arising from the FL lynch result. Adel is hard to read at the best of times, let alone when he is giving extra attention to game-theory.

I disagree with you here vollkan. I have played with Adel numerous times and never have I seen him play this way. At first, I was suspicious but chalked it up to Adel trying to bust the game mechanic (or at least work it). They his later played got super wishy washy, used a huge net, then was OMGUSy. then there was the flake. Perhaps his play was strange because events in RL was leading up to the flake. But I was getting decent scum vibes from Adel right about the time he was heavily defending Sens....the FL result only added to that.

==

Concluding: Based on my current reads, I would say that CKD, Budja and SensFan are the most likely scumteam. This conclusion is not at all well researched though.

Curious now that Sens has flipped town, how has this conclusion changed?

==

I, for one, am basically waiting to hear some real content from CKD before we end the day, and especally to hear what CKD thinks about Sens at the moment.

strange comment...you didnt know my opinion of Sens yesterday? How so? I basically thought he was town...however, toward the end of the day, his lurking started to put him back on my radar because I had a feeling that Adel's comment about him not being invested in the game gave him a free pass to lurk (yeah, I know he didnt say lurk, but can you trace when Sens started lurking heavier?) At any rate, he flipped town.
==
Goat kicks ass. I am fine with Goat’s plan. VERY interested in who Yos/MS chose to investigate and how they chose who gets the role.

==
Once Korts confirms Vig, will vote cop.

[curiouskarmadog]

vote cop

[curiouskarmadog]

I'm up for a MSH lynch, but I don't see what would be upsetting about a Yosarian lynch.

qft

[curiouskarmadog]

update post coming on friday......my week days seem super full as of late.

[curiouskarmadog]

Updating game from about page 44.

When I examime the whole game, when I FEEL the game as a whole, I can tell that the town is being manipulated by scum. Specfically, that faction I was talking about, the accounting faction,, led by OGML, Ren, and CKD, is leading the town and consistnatly pushing in anti-town directions, and I doubt it's a coincidence. I am sure that there is scum there, and I'm almost sure it's CKD.

OMFG, Adel MANIPULATED the town in a anti-town direction....if I was leading shit anywhere, we would have lynched MS yesterday. I completely love how you gloss over that fact.
==

MSH, would you be willing to lynch Yosarian?

At this point in time, no. I haven't seen any compelling evidence that he's scum, I find myself agreeing with almost everything he says, I believe his stance of defending Adel is not one scum is likely to make, and he is the other member of my creative team.

curious, do you see yos following you in any manner? Do you think he is buddying with you in any way? Can you see how we think he is?

==

The FL lynch is horrible if people actually dig deeper into it. Had FL been scum, he would have switched me out before he was lynched.

exactly my point days ago.

==
Ok I am confused…did goat track vollkan as scum or not?

So vollkan, tell us who you tracked!

Wait what?

==
Also, not liking Budja’s, participation in this game lately.

==

[curiouskarmadog]

nice.....good job team.

[curiouskarmadog]

I agree, the QT posts shouldnt been shown in game....

[curiouskarmadog]

thanks for the nom....glad to be part of such a good team...I think everyone played their part well and everyone equally put in ideas.