Xyl's Anime Bastard Chaos - Game Over!

[Unright]

But, for this game, we instead go with

Vote Xyl

.

Does not compute. And Xyl is not in this game. Double Fail.

Sajin & Xyl are obv-scumbuddies.

vote: Xyl

[Unright]

EBWOP: I also need glasses. Where do I get them?

[Unright]

I'm against whatever Tar is for and for whatever he is against.

[Unright]

I've said enough I think.

Uh, yeah. Let's totally ignore the BLATANT SOFT CLAIM.

vote: chamber

Spill, buddy.

[Unright]

Do either one of you want to fill us in why you are at each others throats? Or are we supposed to pick sides on this issue just because of soft claimed role related reasons?

We're neighbors. Nice, huh?

Tar's "I already had a role-based reason not to trust him" is based on a confirmation bias fallacy: that all neighbor pairs are town/scum. That's the foundation on which he's going to interpret everything I do as scummy.

[Unright]

Tar's "I already had a role-based reason not to trust him" is based on a confirmation bias fallacy: that all neighbor pairs are town/scum. That's the foundation on which he's going to interpret everything I do as scummy.

Why do you think he is suspicious of you whereas you're not so suspicious of him? Why isn't the neighbour-suspicion-relationship reciprocal?

There's some reciprocation. I'm just not taking it to the level of fallacy.

[Unright]

I'm against whatever Tar is for and for whatever he is against.

Same fallacy you're accusing me of, as far as I can tell.

I don't feel the same way. I agree that being a neighbor makes you a little more likely to be scum than anyone else (if only in perception) and my quoted statement was my way of communicating that directly to you.

Please note that my words hold much less power than your vote. So stop with the false equivalencies.

I've said enough I think.

Uh, yeah. Let's totally ignore the BLATANT SOFT CLAIM.

vote: chamber

Spill, buddy.

FISH MOAR HARDER PLOX.

At this point in the game, those two posts, when combined with the fact that you *are* a neighbor, are enough for me to vote on.

Look, chamber said he supports a mass origin claim. Then says he doubts there is a punisher mechanic for it because he knows there is a deathnote (which I interpret as: can kill if he knows role name).

What he did wasn't a breadcrumb and it wasn't subtle. If there is a deathnote ability in the game, I find it very likely to be a scum or a SK ability. So if he has information that that reveals said person with that ability (be it chamber or someone else), then he needs to spill the beans.

Note: I acknowledge that it's possible for the deathnote ability to be part of a vig's arsenal, but I'm currently hedging my bet that it isn't.

Note 2: being that there is a player named DeathNote in this game, I will probably use the name punisher instead of deathnote from now on.

[Unright]

Sorry for the hold up. Thought I had already posted, but it turned out I didn't. I'm sorry for holding up the game. Here's my list of a few players who I feel have been scummiest in the first seven pages (in alphabetical order).

Bogre - 2 posts so far. Jumping on the only bandwagon with just a short parrot of other's reasons.

Chamber - overall cagey-ness and I really don't like his role reveal. I can't see who mentioning there is a punisher ability based on rolename helps town *more* than it helps scum or third parties.

Empking - Buddying, doesn't even seem to be remotely considering the possibility of Tar-scum.

Tarhalindur... Not willing to lynch today.

[Unright]

Empking - Buddying, doesn't even seem to be remotely considering the possibility of Tar-scum.

How so?

How 'bout instead of me showing where you didn't do something you show me where you did?

[Unright]

Empking - Buddying, doesn't even seem to be remotely considering the possibility of Tar-scum.

How so?

How 'bout instead of me showing where you didn't do something you show me where you did?

You're the one making the claim.

Times where Empking has buddied to Tar:

46 - "I support a MOC because Tar suggested it."
52 - "In Tar I trust."
85 - Ort: "Why do you trust Tar?" Emp: "No scum motive that I can think of."
iso7-10 (90, 160, 168) - Argues that Tar wouldn't ask for a mass origin claim if he were scum because it would mean the game was broken. Basically it sounds like he clearing Tar by sheer virtue of setup.

Times where Empking shows he doesn't trust Tar:

*crickets*

--

So you think its best I kept this info to myself and let the punisher role feed of name claims that are sure to come? I mean, I don't think this specifically helped either major faction, I image it just hurt the holder. But how does that make it anti-town?

I want you to explain more about how you know about the existence of a punisher role. Because right now you sound like a Serial Killer claiming to be a psychiatrist.

--

Also is anyone else considering the possibility that both Tar and Unright are scum and they're distancing the shit out of each other?

I'm not considering that possibility at all.

--

Unright is there anyone apart from Bogre, Emp and chamber who you find scummy, townie or emphatically null?

Is there anyone in particular you want my opinion on? I tend to treat mafia like poker in that I like to keep my cards close to my chest.

[Unright]

Really? Considering who you're an alt of (found you admitting it while checking a newbie during total read)... that doesn't strike me as accurate at all.

LOL!

Less alt-y, more hydra-y.

Figured that KK would get busted as it's his old account.

And no, I'm not revealing who I am. That would negate the whole point of hydra-ing.

[Unright]

@Unright- What is the point/benefit of hydraing as opposed to an alt account?

Dunno. I've seen other people doing the hydra thing, so I figured I'd try it out. Might spice up the game of mafia, might be a bust.

[Unright]

Hey chamber,

You've stated that you support a mass origin claim (in your first post). When asked to explain why, you said this:

I know that there is a deathnote in this game and find it unlikely that there would be 2 punisher mechanics out of 16 people, even in a bastard setup.

So you figure that an origin claim is fine because you know there is a role name punisher (a deathnote) in the game.

Yet you didn't say anything when Tarhalindur revealed:

One of my abilities depends on role name to function

(it's more complicated than that, but I'd rather not inform scum about exactly how it works). That ability isn't a kill per se... but it does have the potential to be hideously powerful if used correctly, and

can kill under certain circumstances.

So either:
A) You know that Tarhalindur isn't the punisher role that you know is in the game. Which means:
i) So either you know specifically who the punisher is or
ii) You're the punisher role. (and given post 175, I think you're likely 3rd party)
B) Tarhalindur's reveal didn't surprise you because you already knew what her role was (i.e. scummates).

So like I said before. Spill.


---
Not sure how I feel about ZazieR just yet. I'll meta-read when I've got time.

mod: Prod Cobalt

(Probably not much point since he hasn't posted anywhere on the site since Nov. 5, but what the hell)

Cobalt still hasn't picked up his prod.

[Unright]

So you think its best I kept this info to myself and let the punisher role feed of name claims that are sure to come? I mean, I don't think this specifically helped either major faction, I image it just hurt the holder. But how does that make it anti-town?

I want you to explain more about how you know about the existence of a punisher role. Because right now you sound like a Serial Killer claiming to be a psychiatrist.

This wasn't at all an answer to my question.

Answer me this: Why is it clever for a Serial Killer to fake claim a role of Psychiatrist?

[Unright]

oh good, unright already claimed scum

vote unright

LOL!

Soooo worth the wait.

[Unright]

unright, you're attacking chamber for telling us there's a punisher role related to name-claims.

I would like unright to explain how it is bad to call to fact the existence of a punisher role. I think this is a far cry different from a SK claiming psychiatrist...mostly because the SK in your scenario does gain advantage by claiming such. How would chamber, assuming he does possess a punisher mechanic, gain advantage by telling us of its existence at this time? In fact, would it not be harmful to said punisher mechanic? I think your logic is flawed here.

Are both of you missing the fact that chamber only disclosed the fact that there is a name-claim punisher role in order to support the mass origin claim that Tarhalindur was suggesting?

(Hint: Iso-read chamber)

[Unright]

Someone explain the Unright case to me please.

vote Unright

cause hes the only person I don't know.

Later amended and updated to uh.. because I don't like the fact that he could potentially have more information about the name-claim punisher.

Something tells me your taking it to at least the same, if not higher level of fallacy.

Your 2 quotes do not match up.

Vote: Unright

Later amended and updated to uh.. lack of any other alternative.

@Unright: Why do you want chamber to claim?

Vote: Unright

. For now.

Note the misrep (I never asked for a full claim).
Then this:

How about we lynch obvscum unright first?

I second this.

Didn't really explain how she came to view me as "obvscum".

the Unright wagon looks really scummy

Uhm, why?

Your post looks like, really scummy.

Unvote, Vote: Unright

What do you think about that, Talilan? How afraid are you now that I am voting your scumbuddy?

Unright: Fishing, bandwagoning mod, posts looking constructed, not out of feeling.

This was very early in the game. Didn't update it since.

--
Note that the ZazieR bandwagon is just as bad. Half the people on it said "Meta!" and the other half just said "Meta? Ok!". Nobody has answered any questions as to specifically what about ZazieR's meta is wrong.

On re-read and reflection my pushing of chamber may be a little misguided.

unvote
Vote: Snow_Bunny

[Unright]

unright voted chamber for giving us information about a punisher role
there's no protown reason for doing that

So chamber states that he got a role PM that says "Hey chamber, there's a role in the game, of unknown alignment, that kills people if they know their name."

..and I'm scummy for questioning that?

Plus when I do question it, all I get is this:

From the towns perspective I could very well be the one with the deathnote. I'm not asking for amnesty. What I am asking for is what you expected me to do given that I am town and only have knowledge of its existence like I claim?

Which is nothing more than a fancy WIFOM.

The person who claims Psychiatrist early is usually the Serial Killer because it's a brilliant ballsy gambit.

[Unright]

A fancy form of WIFOM? You have yet to answer me. If I am town and have the information I claim to have what did you want me to do?

Its already been talked about but this is inherently different from claiming psychiatrist. By claiming what I have I've made it significantly harder for the holder of the deathnote to do as he pleases. Claiming psychiatrist has no adverse effect on the sk who claims it.

An SK claiming psychiatrist has a definite adverse on the SK because it reveals that an SK exists (and not a vig, for example). The situation in this game works exactly the same way.

Your telling us not to reveal our rolenames is not the grandstanding pro-town move that you claim it to be. I hopefully doubt that nobody is dumb enough to need a proper warning about the dangers of revealing their role name in a Bastard mafia game.

Plus you didn't reveal your information out of the goodness of your pro-town heart, you only did it (in a roundabout way) to defend why you were pro-mass origin claim. This continues to be a reason why I don't trust you. Why didn't you state your warning about a name-claim punisher role in a clear fashion in your very first post of the day?

[Unright]

Well, after reading Zazie in iso, I can't say I found something inherently scummy. Just tons of questions, no much other than that, but it's more like active lurking than scumminess per se. Not that that isn't worth, but I prefer Unright now. Also, his reasons to vote me (if there are any) doesn't help him either.

I'm voting for you because you made an opportunistic vote on convenience. You've voted for me on a misrepresentation (I never asked chamber for a claim--I asked him to explain how he knows about a deathnote killer) and you've not asked me any questions that could be described as "scum-huntingesque". You're very, very much active lurking.

How about you explain how to went from "Leaning towards an Unright lynch" to "unright is obvscum"?

--

On a related note: Unright, you are one of the vote leaders with two days left to deadline. Please claim series and abilities (I'm not sure whether we should claim names at this time).

LOLWUT?

I'm positive you already know what series I'm from... Why do you want me to claim?

Also:

unvote: Snow_Bunny
Vote: ZazieR

Yeah, yeah.. A self-preservation vote. But it's also a good anti-lurker vote.. Zazie hasn't posted here since Nov 8th yet he's posted elsewhere on the site. He's abandoned the game whereas I'm still here posting and willing to play.

[Unright]

its a stance on the unright-Tar neighbours.

Hmm.. You're taking a stance on something you didn't have an opinion of Day 1. I want to be grateful, but I'm still paranoid.

It also underlines I dont believe either DN or orto should be lynched.

Both of those two acted pretty peculiarly yesterday. Chamber is right about DeathNote contributing very little to the game, and ortolan's certainty of my towniness is... somewhat unnatural and out-of-character for him.

[Unright]

sources? both for my certainty of your towniness and the fact this is "out of character for me".

Maybe "certainty" was a little strong, but the following quotes reek a little of buddying.

Unright's 244 looks so town.

Unright is doing a very good job of looking pro-town right now, his vote on Snow_Bunny looks legit also. Voting him is real scummy.

As for "out-of-character"...

I'll use KK's history with you to bring up:
Open 96, Mini 711, and Prisoner's Dilemma II as examples where you were town, yet refrained from making pro-town declarations on Day 1.

I have a similar read, but not as numerous examples. Keep in mind, you're not my top suspect at the moment, I just think you were a little off your usual pro-town read.

[Unright]

Damn it, why did you have to die, FL! No fair!

So, we want people who want to hear from Emp and Orto, right?

It'd be great to hear more from Snow_Bunny as well..

Mod: Vote Count

[Unright]

I'm not saying this automatically makes Tar scum BTW. At first I thought it did and then I thought about it and I realized it doesn't automatically make him scum because town would protect themselves as well. However, I feel scum may be more apt to save themselves.

I'm leaning towards Tar being town..

Tar using an ability on himself is not a scummy action. I agree with Pomegranate.. in a bastard game (especially a Xyl Bastard game), it's very possible that there are redirectors, bus drivers, reflectors, deflectors, or some other mechanism that makes Tar not responsible for his ability use.

If you can state for certainty that none of these possibilities exist, then I'll consider voting for Tar.

[Unright]

I'm thinking that the scum are those that are standing by and saying nothing while claims are going on..

mod, please prod:
Boxman, Bogre, DeathNote, Snow_Bunny, Pomegranate, chamber...

Ortolan and dramonic need to post analysis and thoughts..

[Unright]

Results, schemults. How does that even jibe with flavor?

[Unright]

Why are people voting Empking? Shouldn't we just have our resident DeathNote guy prove his towniness by eliminating him? I mean, we have his name & series and all...

I know, I know.. I'm vig-directing.. But as far as I can reason, scum has no reason to hammer a claimed super-saint.

If Empking is scum and hammerer is scum. Hammerer will refuse to hammer and would rather be lynched instead. This move forces town to use up two lynches to kill Empking.

If Empking is town and hammerer is scum. Hammerer will refuse to hammer as he/she will be much happier forcing the town to use up two lynches for no reason (and possibly having another townie die by hammering).

If hammerer is town, then they should hammer because a one-for-one trade-off is always good for town.

Keep in mind that I think Empking is scum. A 1-shot unlynchable super-saint sounds ridiculous. I'd have believed one or the other, but both is just too powerful.

Well, I picked up my suspicious of D1 about Unright, and well, they were not as strong now that I read Unright in iso. I still think is suspicious he wanted chamber to "spill it out", but his latest posts give me a different impression. I also note that his feelings towards Tar change in D2. Me wonders why.

Nice casting of aspersions. Or fishing for role information. Whichever.

Also, I think you're playing dumber than you really are.

Vote: Snow_Bunny

[Unright]

er.. That's 'deathnote' not 'DeathNote'..

[Unright]

Unright, this is all invalidated because I can force someone to hammer.

So you said...

My bad.

I'm good with either SB or DN hammering.

[Unright]

Ha... I generally don't make it to lylo anyways. Although, after reviewing my role, I realize that I should not claim and that I am town in this game. I am not saying I shouldn't claim because I want to be a further burden to the game, but that I shouldn't claim for the town's sake. If this is not good enough for you... then sorry.

.... Really? That's your only defense? That claiming is worse than surviving?

I may not be sure about Empking, but I'm positive that DeathNote is scum (see my previous post about the motivations behind scum and town hammerers).

@Tarhalindur: Empking's already at L-2 (or presumably is so considering it's 8? to lynch). I hold off voting until we're sure of the plan.

Although, to tell the truth, I'm not sure why you'd be worried about Empking self-voting. Empking-town has no rational motive to do so. And Empking-scum would do it only to save DeathNote-scum a certain death (though DeathNote (scum or town) would be the major suspect tomorrow anyways).

[Unright]

And Empking-scum would do it only to save DeathNote-scum a certain death (though DeathNote (scum or town) would be the major suspect tomorrow anyways).

That was what I was trying to avoid, actually.

Eh.. Worse case scenario isn't that bad then. If Empking self-hammers and doesn't die, then the vig has an obvious choice. DeathNote could then be investigated at night to remove the WIFOM.

End result: 1 dead scum.

Easiest course of action looks to be the following: Slicey votes Empking then immediately forces DeathNote to hammer. Given this, nobody other than Slicey should vote for Empking now.

Agreed with this.

[Unright]

Or Slicey is just flat-out lying here - we'll see what Unright has to say.

Slicey has a pro-town win condition and no alternate win conditions. I see no reason to expand on anything else in this thread.

[Unright]

Unright, answer this for me please. Do you have 1-shot kill immunity?

I do. But please don't tell me that you're working on some sort of theory that says that all scum have a 1-shot kill immunity. Because that's a dumb theory.

I rather hear the rationalizations of those who are quote-box asking for a Pom claim.

[Unright]

Day 4 Vote Count

Slicey -

3

(Snow_Bunny, Boxman, Cobalt, dramonic)

Goddamn. Could you four quit running up and lynching people before we actually talk during the day.

[Unright]

Have you forgotten the fact that Ort could have been recruited? I am 99% sure Slicey and Ort are scumbuddies.

Stop that. Slicey is 100% town. Pretty sure that Ortolan is near that percentage as well.

You, on the other hand, are not likely to be town. At all.

[Unright]

protip: I have no vote today.

Then why did you vote? Just to test?

Your protection towards Slicey is noted.

Yes, please note that I am just crazy enough to protect those that I have a INNOCENT INVESTIGATION RESULT ON.

4) Unright, I may not trust you completely, but I trust you enough for this: Results on Slicey, please. I KNOW you used a very strong inspection on him, and I think we just caught a scumbag.

Slicey has a pro-town win condition and no alternate win conditions. I see no reason to expand on anything else in this thread.

If you paid more attention, you wouldn't expose yourself as scum. Same goes for Boxman and dramonic. And maybe Cobalt.

Consider my vote to be on Snow_Bunny pending results of mass-claim.

[Unright]

The really fun part: Unright claimed that the Mafia consisted of himself, a Mason Recruiter that had recruited Slicey and Ortolan, and a Mafia Roleblocker. Pomegranate's claim supports that... which means that if we can Geass Unright to be unable to kill and Geass lasts past Slicey's death (which it should AFAIK), we should be able to *test* Unright's claim of an alternate win condition creating a Tarhalindur/Ortolan/Unright endgame (preferably taking down his kill shield first, but as long as Unright cannot kill or ortolan has the Death Note then we win even through the Immortal shield) - at this endgame, either Unright fulfills his alt win and leaves the game or town lynches him ftw.

We can't let Slicey win, for good or ill (since both myself and ortolan should be Immortals), and we need to lynch the Mafia Roleblocker (probably Boxman given claim, though Snow_Bunny and Cobalt are possibilities) ASAP to lock down the game, but we can pretty much autowin at this point.

Right. Hello everyone.

Now that everything and everyone is out in the open. Let's let the maximum amount of people win, yes?

Now nobody listed what their win condition were before Tar went and announced all this, so it's a bit of a pickle.

Yes, I am mafia, but I do have an alternate win condition that allows me to win with the town (as Tar already mentioned). If any of you are doubting my desire to achieve this win condition, then talk amongst yourselves as to who has a Giant Mecha to crush Pom with... no one? That's because I made the kill with the Deathnote (if you remember the anime, then you remember that I can choose the kill method if I have the character name).

Now I've played this game very badly. I've trusted Tar when I had no real leverage on him. My hydra partner is gone for all intents and purposes. Real life is going to interrupt my ability to play in a dramatic fashion. My last remaining partner is probably hating my guts right now and will push hardest for my lynch.

So with everything on the table. The only people I care about are my minions and getting the altenate win. Now I've assumed that Slicey, Ort, and Tar are town and can win once I fulfill my win condition and leave the game. Slicey has already listed his win condition as being incompatible with Ortolan and Tarhalindur surviving. So the town has the following options.

A) Go with my plan. Kill off everyone but Me, Ortolan, and Tarhalindur. I leave the game and asuming that Ortolan and Tarhalindur have plain ol' pro-town win conditions, then all townies (and me) win.

B) Go with a Slicey plan. Kill off all immortals (Which incluces me, ort, & Tar). Slicey will presumadly win along with whoever he cult-recruits. (Note: you're not a vig Slicey. You just happen to have bad luck)

C) ???

Now remember that the bonus with going with plan A is that I control the night-kills. If you kill me today, then that gives my partner a fighting chance.

[Unright]

Let's get it done, folks: Geass Unright, then lynch Boxman.

Uh... WTF? You're supporting the move to tke the ability to kill away from me and to give it to the guy who's win condition is to kill both you & me?

Absolutely fuckin' a brilliant, Tar.

[Unright]

Hmm.. I'm fairly certain that Tar is lying his ass off.

I asked Tar what his win condition was and he took a long ass time to answer. When he did answer, he said that he had the normal 100% town win condition.

Now I've pretty much handed him the game on a silver platter. But he's not bitting, instead he's doing backflips to try to help Slicey win.

I Role Inspected Slicey and it said nothing about his cult recruit win condition and certainly nothing about needing to kill immortals. So WTF is going on...

Silcey claims to be a cult recruiter with the goal of killing off immortals. This agrees with his discarded earlier game-theory that all immortals are scum. Tarhalindur admits to being immortal (plus is mod-confirmed as immortal because he survives a super-saint attack).

This is about the point where I note that it's suspicious that Slicey is claiming that all of his cult recruits happen to match up with mafia NKills and has a "failed" recruit on Tar.

So far the play today is looking like Tar is helping Slicey. And vice-versa. I've handed the game to the town on a silver platter and instead of going for it, the town is scheming to eliminate me. WTF is going on?

@Tar:

What is you win condition?

@Slicey: I know you're lying about your win condition. I doubt that Xyl set up a game where you need 8 kills to win. I'm sure you can win if your cult recruits out-number the immortals. It's still winnable for you, but it's counter to my win condition. However, I need you alive. Funny, huh?

Oh, and your Geass won't work the way you worded it, so good job on that.

[Unright]

How about this:

Unright reveals 3rd scum, then we let him fulfill his alternate win con.

Yeah... Since you guys are doing your best to eliminate my ability to kill people and achieve my ALTERNATE win condition, exactly what incentive do I have to help you ruin my REGULAR win condition?

Besides, I've already made my move of good faith (remember Pom?). I may be playing badly, but I'm not going to play *THAT* badly.

@Tar: Ah, I see what you mean about the 3-1 endgame with a voteblock ability in my pocket. I've been a little distracted lately. This is going to be my last scum game for a while and I'd like to go out with a win. You've already got your town auto-win, so how can I get my win in return?