A Clash of Kings - A Divided Kingdom

[xvart]

mod - not that this really matters, but in your last votecount the raise hand votecount has an error at the end where it says "Not voting to Lynch (16)" and should be "Not voting to Raise Hand (16)".

Yes, your mod's a ninja and noticed this too

Hey, guys! I have an awesome idea. We should have a mass nameclaim today! That will totally catch all the scum, by...um, forcing them to use their fake claims. I mean, the one who suggested that plan in

A Game of Thrones

Mafia went on to win the game, so it will be a total success.

lol. Can I just say I'm as staunchly against the idea in this game as I was in that one? With 26 players I can't imagine the colossal waste of time it would take to discuss a name claim.

Everybody raising themselves is stupid for trying to say others are scum. Not everyone can raise themselves, or nobody will get the double vote.

But not everyone is raising themselves... And, I don't see anyone that is raising himself/herself to try and say others are scum. They may be doing it to say "I'm not scum" but not the other way around.

(5) being RichardGHP

What does this mean?

Otherwise, I'm on board with the Deer wagon.

Vote: Deer

xvart.

[xvart]

I'm not going to agree to a contract I will potentially break (see: bandwagoning), nor am I going to agree to a contract proposed by the only person in the game who is pushing on me. When, and only when, you are dead, I will agree to the contract.

Wait a second... You are not going to agree to the contract because 1) you might break it, and 2) the person who proposed it thinks you are scum? Then you say you will agree to the contract once the person who proposed it is dead? So you obviously think there is some benefit to the contract, but only after the person who proposed it is dead? I don't understand. Once CMAR is dead, will you not break it even though you suggested you might? This is convoluted fence sitting at it's finest. It appears to me that you think that opposing the contract will make you scummy, but you don't want to support the person who proposed it even though you will agree to it. What in the contract makes it more valuable or more pro-town once CMAR is dead?

IIoA is a nulltell, too, along with contradictions.

Contradictions do not give any information about alignment? Town is just as likely to contradict themselves as scum?

But not everyone is raising themselves... And, I don't see anyone that is raising himself/herself to try and say others are scum. They may be doing it to say "I'm not scum" but not the other way around.

Sigh. I'm not saying everyone is doing it. Try reading my post again assuming I'm not saying that. Also, try reading post 23, which FoS's everyone not raising themselves. Reading comprehension ftw.

unvote vote: xvart

Because of this and the fact that he's already bandwagon voting.

Interesting vote, and especially weak. In addition to early bandwagoning being scummy in your eyes do you think I was misrepresenting you or something? See comment right below for more info on my original comment.

Everybody raising themselves is stupid for trying to say others are scum. Not everyone can raise themselves, or nobody will get the double vote.

But not everyone is raising themselves... And, I don't see anyone that is raising himself/herself to try and say others are scum. They may be doing it to say "I'm not scum" but not the other way around.

Yeah, I totally FoSed people for it. So, does that change things?

I was more concerned with the idea that was presented that people were only raising themselves to make others look scummy, which seems more like a semantic problem in the original quote.

@Xvart, animorph - Why posting and not raising?

I didn't feel the need to immediately vote to raise someone, and frankly I didn't really feel comfortable haphazardly raising someone on the third page with so little to judge genuine townie-ness on. I also wasn't expecting to get a couple of votes (if any) to raise me so I didn't see the necessity at the time. At the time of the post, raising myself seemed equivalent to not raising anyone.

Raise: xvart

So we can self-raise, right? In that case...

Unraise: MagnaofIllusion

Raise: Super Smash Bros. Fan

The question about self-raising here reads to me to be not genuine. By this time it was obvious that self-raising was allowed, so why the need to confirm question it and then self raise yourself? Are you scum that needs to reaffirm that it is okay to self-raise yourself? The same goes for IDI.

I see some stuff stays consistent between player sets.

Ok, I'm obviously a mafia because of my stance on randomly voting people. Kill me.

/sarcasm.

Um... wtf?

On another front, I have no clue what the hell animorph is doing and am anxious for some coherent posting as opposed to quoting himself to the attention of the mod.

The case on Richard and the subsequent wagon is much more solid.

Unvote
Vote: Richard

I think there was something else I wanted to comment on (probably in one of the quotes above that I deleted) but can't remember now, so I'll try and get back to that later.

preview edit:

I still suggest raising the one we are lynching

Then what is the point of going through the raise motions if that person is going to instantly die?

@drippereth: If you once again say that deer is scum I for one will vote for you and either if you or deer flips scum I will held a crusade to lynch the other

Hmmmm...

xvart.

[xvart]

Yes. Why are you talking at plural?

Drippereth is a hydra (multiple heads) account for two players: DrippingGoofBall and Ellibereth. They both play under that account in this game with the same role and same win condition.

xvart.

[xvart]

I agree with Drippereth, for the record. I have no reason to dislike their play, and find what RichardGHP is doing somewhat scummy.

fos: RichardGHP

I'm still waiting, xvart.

Someone is a little impatient! Why do you think I am more scummy than Richard?

@xvart
I do not find your answer to my case on you satisfactory or clear. Please make it more so.

That's probably because your "case" on me is so unclear; which is exactly why I asked you the follow up question, which you did not answer.

The first reason you are voting for me because I bandwagon, right?

The second reason is because of my post saying I don't think people are raising themselves to make other people look scummy, right?

I'm baffled because I don't see anything scummy about my post, unless you think I was somehow misrepresenting you, which is why I asked the question earlier. So, please clarify what is scummy (and vote worthy) about the second part of your case and then I would be happy to give a more detailed response to you. Otherwise, I can't really give you an "answer to your case" and won't really care.

xvart.

[xvart]

unvote

vote: richardhgb

I like a good bandwagon

Weaksauce... The bandwagon had been good for quite a while.

Who would be in favor of raising the Drippereth hydra? Who would be against? Please explain your decision.

I am not in favor of you being Hand of the King. Your (hydra) playstyle can be, at times, erratic. I also think that if you two are scum, you could be more dangerous with a double vote than anyone else in the game.

2. I'd like for you to explain why I parroted Vezopiraka. I haven't seen my reasons for suspecting RichardGHP being explained by anyone else really.

Why would you want Mina to explain why you did something?

People People...the scum last game had safeclaims, unless provable claims, nameclaims really shouldn't dissuade scummness.

This is why we should have asked everyone how familiar they were with the books in the RVS stage of the game.

Okay, I will get caught up soon, but to those voting to raise axelrod, I would just like to say that whoever gets the double vote will likely die quickly and axelrod already endorsed me getting the double vote. I'm willing to take that sacrifice for town. I'll admit axel seems to be a very good player and I'll likely take his advice into consideration when using a double vote. Just putting it out there.

This could be the single scummiest post of the game.

I'm most concerned about the people that unvoted prior to the claim: danakillsu and I Doubt It.

Starting to look more like VI to me as well.

Unvote

I'm not convinced Richard's the best lynch any more, and I

really

don't like the last three votes on the wagon.

FoS: animorpherv1, Mikujin, Migwelloni

More thoughts tomorrow, dead tired now.

IDI - at what point to Richad become VI as opposed to scummy like you originally thought?

And why would you unvote now, pre-claim, after we all put Richard to L-1?

Why do you find it scummy that I ensured RichardGHP would not be quicklynched? LOOK WHO HE TURNED OUT TO BE! We also hadn't decided who to raise as Hand yet. I help town a lot and it's scummy. Go figure. I will do this again next time I have the opportunity, despite what others might think.

Quicklynched? Seriously? This wagon had been building for quite a while now. Are you routinely worried about people sitting at L-1? It's fairly common practice to only claim at L-1. And for the all caps statment, what was the point? Are you trying to justify your premature unvote by the claim that came after your unvote?

@xvart
Yes. You misrepped me. I said that it was stupid to raise onesself and then say others are scummy. I didn't say that making others look scummy was the reason they were doing it. That is the second part of my case. Mainly my vote was a protest, and there's a lot more information to go on now, so

unvote

But that's not what you said at all. Here's your post. Show me the conditional "then" part. I would've accepted your part about not saying that making others look scummy was the reason they were doing it (the whole semantics thing) if it weren't for you dodging my follow up question and now your contradiction the quoted post. My original post wasn't even accusatory nor did I say what you originally said was scummy. You appear pretty defensive about it.

Unvote
Vote: danakillsu

xvart.

[xvart]

Just want to make this clear to everyone. I am not defending Benmage, I am just trying to find faults with I doubt it's case on Benmage.

I have a huge problem with this post. If you aren't defending him why are you trying to undermine other players attacks on him? Furthermore, why are you

seeking

faults in a particular players arguments? Especially I doubt It, whom you are only slightly suspicious of?

Is that not a town read? "Not lynchworthy?"

No it's not a town read it's a not-as-scummy-as-CMAR-read

Are people who are scummy but not as scummy as your top read not lynchworthy?

@Mikujin (419)

- In those 15 or so pages you found nothing but scummy behavior on Vezo?

@CCARaven4 (368)

- And that post is still coming soon I hope?

---

@danakillsu -

This only says "If he flips scum" (which btw, is pretty much impossible) "you're scum"

Do you mean "look who he claimed to be"? Why do you assume he's telling the truth?

No, I mean who he turned out to be. There's no way he's lying when he claimed whom he claimed without a C-C. Do you doubt his claim?

And how are you so certain that it is

impossible

for him to flip scum? Especially considering you were voting for him. His claim is guaranteed town how?

Kleedrac needs to be lynched folks. We aren't getting any younger, and for some of us that's a real problem.

QFTQFTQFT!

Then why aren't you voting him?

Excellent question.

xvart.

Preview edit:

I think you're making a mountain out of a molehill. All I had at that point was gut, and that wasn't enough for me, not knowing how Kleedrac plays. Sorry if that's a problem for you, but it's certainly not acting like I'm a newbie.

Yes, it may not be how newbie's play but it is acting like scum. Pretty much all of your votes have been either exceptionally weak, bandwagoning a likely lynch (with a nice little ramp up FoS shortly beforehand), or only when called out on scummy behavior.

Scum positively identified. Case closed.

xvart.

[xvart]

EBWOP:

Because Finkle is Einhorn, and Einhorn is Finkle.

And on an irrelevant note, I meant to give a shout out to the Ace Ventura reference.

xvart.

[xvart]

EBWOP2:

Woah. I'm still in this game? Shows how impessionable this game is on me.

I can't begin to explain how annoying I think animorph is. Ani - replace out if this game is so unimpressionable. Also, if I can grab your attention long enough, why did you quote yourself to the mod in your ISO1?

Also -

Drippereth

- can you explain where your town read of danakillsu is coming from?

xvart.

[xvart]

On Richard's claim, I'm guessing his character is actually his character because Renly is a fairly prominent character and would fit well in this game in terms of flavor. As other's have said, that does not determine alignment. I could easily see this set of characters and abilities fitting in with a scum faction. His ability claim may very well be true. If anyone in Renly's camp (including Ser Loras) flips scum then Richard should be auto-lynched the next day.

@Mikujin (419)

- In those 15 or so pages you found nothing but scummy behavior on Vezo?

I thought it best to make my case against the person I was most suspicious of rather than try to address every individual instance of suspicion I'd have come across in my 17 page read. I figured my most relevant thoughts would be the important ones to share.

When exactly did you become most suspicious of Vezo? If it became midway through your reading wouldn't you already have other thoughts compiled? It appears to me that you went through the ISO of someone and just commented on that person. If you really did a read through I would expect some other analysis besides pretty tame topics of the Raise candidates.

re: Paranoia (436) - I'm really suspicious of this post and the alleged preview edit, especially after it occurred shortly after my preview edit (which I think was the first stated one of the game). I think LMP hit the nail on the head with his comment on the preview edit, but I would like some more explanation on the timeline of this post and the justification behind voting two people in the same post. Were you just trying to give a nod to your agreement on the Kleedrac wagon without actually participating in it?

Why would you want Mina to explain why you did something?

Mina accused me of copying reasons from vezopiraka. I do not see where I parroted vezopiraka. Therefore, I'm wanting evidence from Mina to prove that I was parroting vezopiraka.

But you didn't ask Mina to provide evidence. You asked her to explain why

you

did something, which is close to impossible unless you share a brain or worked it out in scum chatter beforehand.

Now I'd like for you to answer this question. When they're called out for a scummy move, sometimes they don't see it and they need evidence to see that they actually commited a scummy act. What makes this post so different?

The wording of your post.

1. I was attacking the case that I doubt it made on Benmage, not defending Benmage in general.

Potato, pahtato. Is there some reason you think that Benmage can't defend himself?

2. I was explaining to I doubt it that his case on Benmage was very poor. I asked for evidence and he gave me a quote from one of his posts. I then searched Benmage's ISO and found that I doubt it's case on Benmage was mostly flawed and thus I went after I doubt it. Not because I thought Benmage was pro-town (I do, but that wasn't the reason why I attacked I dobut it's case on him), but because I didn't like I doubt it's case on Benmage.

Does I doubt It's recent poor argument change your opinion of him from only slightly suspicious to more suspicious or is your opinion of him the same?

btw, anyone notice how scummy xvart is acting in relation to me? I make three excellent points (if I do say so myself) some of them with questions, and when he pops up again, he talks about only two things.

Hm? Are the three "excellent points" you made the ones in your ISO 15? If so, and even if I agreed that your three points were excellent, does that one post overrule all the scummy votes you've placed and the other things I've laid out?

One was my paranthetical statement in the first point, not the first point itself, and the other was my response to a point somebody ELSE made about my post. In other words, he never dealt with any of my three actual points. Talk about selective responses. Wish I could vote for both him and Kleedrac.

You forgot that I talked about your scummy votes, which you failed to even remotely address. Were those three actual points to me? Either I am not seeing which three points you are referring to or you think that one excellent post should change my opinion of your alignment.

xvart.

[xvart]

Stalling? lol. I didn't realize you expected me to respond to your response to SSBF without being prompted. You do realize that your three points were to SSBF and not me, right?

However, my response that I have apparently been actively trying to avoid:
1. I don't see the link that SSBF claimed at least as far getting Richard to claim. If you and Richard are scumbuddies I would think you would unvote to make sure he didn't claim. In terms of your response, I already said: your confidence that Richard will not flip scum is most concerning to me.
2. Scum wouldn't just haphazardly and immediately hammer someone just because he had the opportunity.
3. I couldn't be more disinterested in debating OMGUS and whether something is or is not OMGUS. I'll leave that up to the people involved. I will ask you why you think his opinions of you are "inherently scummy"?

xvart.

[xvart]

On Richard's claim, I'm guessing his character is actually his character because Renly is a fairly prominent character and would fit well in this game in terms of flavor. As other's have said, that does not determine alignment. I could easily see this set of characters and abilities fitting in with a scum faction. His ability claim may very well be true. If anyone in Renly's camp (including Ser Loras) flips scum then Richard should be auto-lynched the next day.

This seems off to me. What if someone from Renly's camp fits scum, but the faction is something Renly wouldn't fit in? Should we still lynch him?

I guess there could be exceptions as I don't really recall all the people and the family structure of Renly's claim to the throne, but I meant that if we lynch Ser Loras or anyone that would obviously be on Renly's faction and that person flips scum then Renly should be auto-lynched. I was thinking that Renly's faction was more clear cut than some of the other houses where some characters could flip scum and others could flip town (or opposing scum).

xvart.

[xvart]

@xvart
You're right... it was SSBF that was ignoring my points. Sorry for the misundertanding. But didn't you get involved in that conversation, anyway? Or is that just me?

I don't remember but it is possible I got "involved" in the conversation, at least in commenting on something you said. I don't see how commenting on one aspect of someone's post requires me to respond to the

entire

breadth of the post.

CATCHING UP!

Call me a sucker, but I believe Kleedrac here. He seems to be genuinely pissed.

Scum can be genuinely pissed too. Anyway, I recall thinking you were scum somewhere earlier but I forgot why. I'll figure it out later.

Did you ever figure out why you thought Raivan was scummy way back when? Also, how does this argument play into your recent shout out that Raivan is sooooo much more town than Kleedrac?

Sorry I read Dana's post wrong, I'm buzzing pretty good right now.
I thought he meant even if he's town it wont hurt us and typed scum because of a scumslip.... ugh.
I would rather we lynch Richard, but it doesn't seem to be going that way, so I hopped on popular wagon. Do I believe we have better chance of hiting scum with Richard lynch? Yes. But I'll go with the flow D1.

So your reasoning behind your vote was incorrect, yet you leave the vote anyways? Please explain.

Standing by for hammer duty I prefer raivann lynch. He was the original scum deer and still is

This looks to me as scum acknowledging a scumbuddy with a wagon, but only going to jump on the wagon when it is too late to turn it around. In the event that another wagon forms, the bus was already noted as being supportive of the lynch.

xvart.

[xvart]

Sorry about my absence; I've been swamped at work. I'm going to be rereading my games and posting later tonight/tomorrow.

xvart.

[xvart]

@danakillsu: You started with an "IF you find Raivann as scummy as Kleedrac", a hypothetical. You also say his messing up is a null tell.
Then, you say you would be down for a Raivann lynch - you guess.
And now: your scumread on Raivann has always been equal to your scumread on Kleedrac?
You're retconning your read here. I also don't like this:
danakillsu wrote:
Raivann is at least almost as scummy as Kleedrac
At least almost?! More weaselling.

Yes, my scumread on Raivann has always been approximately equal to my scumread on Kleedrac. There's nothing false there. And as far as "at least almost", you got a better way to say that? I think Raivann could be said to be as scummy as Kleedrac, but not scummier. I personally think he's a little bit less scummy, which is why I'm voting for Kleedrac. Why can't you seem to wrap your mind around that? Since everyone's calling you smart town and raising you, you seem to have gotten a bit cocky and seem to think you can just call the shots and everyone will follow you.

Sigh. Why doesn't anyone get what I've said from the beginning? MY POINT IS THAT KLEEDRAC-SCUM is roughly equal to Raivann-scum, and both have good reasoning for their wagons.

The point, at least as I read it, is who gives a shit if two people are

at least almost close enough but a little different

in terms of their scumminess?! Scum is scum. You ought to be actively trying to get either lynched if you are confident in your reads. The only reason I can think of that it might matter the order you lynch them is if you see some reason why one of them might have a scum power role. The fact that you are so ambivalent about their relationship and wishy washy about who is scummier and who is more lynchworthy looks to me like you are leaving yourself outs if/when any of this goes south.

Therefore if Kleedrac is replaced, making "Kleedrac"-town at least as good as Raivann-town, then I'd be fine with lynching either.

And what is this now? One minute they both are scum and the next they are both town? Based off of one person being replaced? I think you fabricated this point about Raivann and Kleedrac so you could interject some new material for the wagon so it didn't appear that you were merely bandwagoning; then you got called out on it and now can't even explain it yourself.

I'm starting to wonder something about Loras. PLEASE READ THIS: DO NOT CLAIM The question I'm wondering is if Loras knew before Richard's claim that he would get a Venge kill if Renly died, or if Loras either A) Is vanilla, or B) Had other abilities besides this.

I had actually wondered the same thing, but I don't see any benefit to discussing it until Loras comes out (pun intended).

However, I did forget to write down notes, so I'm going to just try to remember what my reads were.

First let me explain that I am not complaining that you didn't take notes; but my interest in your post is that you

forgot

to take notes? You were planning on taking notes on a 26ish page game and what, got to page 25 and thought "shit! I was going to take notes"?

Bolding mine; no reasons were given for the flip-flop, and no reasons for thinking SSBF scum were given either.

JVW - I had a similar concern a while back (not specific to your example) but I asked about a specific read and never got an answer. (hint hint Drippereth)

Just a question. Do you think CMAR is scummy because he was conveniently around to react to Richard's claim, or because his "unvote" reaction happened so quickly?

I was wondering the same thing because if you think CMAR is scummy because he was around to react to Richard's claim that would mean some level of daytalking ability and if that is the case then this would have been a planned thing, and wouldn't the plan be so obvious as to outweigh whatever perceived benefit? I do find it odd that the unvote came so quickly; I would have expected an immediate unvote to say something along the lines of "I'm going to unvote while I consider this claim." I'm leaning towards CMAR being scum and wanting to look town and didn't even evaluate the claim at all.

Why couldn't it be a fake claim and the power be completely bogus? If he is the leader of a scum team, and his fake claim is Renly, couldn't his partner's fake claim be Loras? And couldn't he have just made up the power? It would explain him having to PM the mod multiple times to "clarify" how it worked. And "his play has been underwhelming"? That's an underwhelming statement from you. Here is the entireity of his participation SINCE his claim:

I never really thought the pm'ing the mod was even necessary. Seriously, wtf are we pm'ing to mod to find out what killed means and if "lynching killed" is the same as "night kill killed" in terms of killed-ness? Why would he have to pm the mod if the ability was made up? To feign not understanding the pm?

xvart.

[xvart]

EBWOP:
Forgot to do this.

Unraise
Raise: Percy

xvart.

[xvart]

lol, EBWOP:
Also forgot to do this, my reasoning mentioned in my original post above:

Unvote
Vote: CMAR

xvart.

[xvart]

@xvart
It was hypothetical. Talking about "Kleedrac"-town doesn't mean that I think he is town, it's just saying if he WAS town, etc. This is how the phrase is used across the board, so I really don't know where you got your crazy ideas.

The problem as I see it is that you aren't even confident in either of the lynches you propose. You leave yourself outs by saying "these are the only three options: however, if X is town we are still in good shape; if Y is town we are still in good shape; etc. I also don't like the fact that you are basing your lynch strategy on the basis of considering both to be town or both to be scum. It just doesn't make sense because you are saying that the lynch should be Kleedrac because if Kleedrac is town it's not as big a deal as opposed to lynching town-Raivann. Is that a correct interpretation?

SSBF was town with that massive wagon analsys post from way back when..

Scum can't analyze wagons? You are basing your whole read on SSBF based on one post?

BAM! There's scum on that. Tons of 'em.
SO Lynchme's tow, we're town, dana's town, vezo's town, miku's town.

I'll ask again: where does your town read on dana come from? I don't recall you posting anything...

anything

about dana other than "dana is town." Please enlighten me.

xvart.

[xvart]

There was probably more, but what's wrong with getting a read off one post? I do it quite often with a fair amount of accuracy.

Okay. Now what one post gives you a town read of danakillsu?

-CMAR is on 9 votes. Raivann is on 7. And yet you leave your vote on Budja, saying "a lynch on CMAR is better than NL".

Right now

is the time to be pressuring Raivann or pushing the Raivann wagon over the CMAR wagon, rather than throwing up your hands, sitting out and pouting about it. You have never had any conviction behind your Raivann read, and it shows. Same goes for your CMAR read.

Solid catch there.

@dana

- any comment on this assessment?

unvote
vote raviann

Everyone from CMAR wagon switch here. I don't want this day to end in a no lynch

Obv fakeclaim.
You were voting to raise CMAR.
I don't want to lynch a vig now.
If CMAR flips scum raviann should be obv scum.

Someone asked who I believe scum.
I believe both of them are scum.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CMAR

I'm really starting to get a scummy vibe off of vezokpiraka. Vezo - why is it so obvious? And if it is so obvious it is obviously fake, why did you switch your vote?

unvote vote:Budja

I don't know that Richard's claim is conflicting, could someone please explain that to me?

The gist of it seems to be that it's implausible that there's a full vig and a one-shot vig on the same alignment. I don't think it's impossible but yeah, now that I think about it, it would make more sense if one of the claims was false, or if Richard's claim is true too but he actually belongs to a Renly-based faction.

Eagerly awaiting whatever CMAR has to say for himself, although I doubt it will make a difference at this point.

I could see it as town having a full vig with the other factions having limited vig powers since there is probably multiple non-town factions (I say non-town because as someone mentioned there might be a faction that has an alternative win condition but is not anti-town, which I hadn't thought about. I don't think this is likely, unless it is a very small faction).

Eagerly awaiting CMAR's post and claim.

Potential vig targets: CMAR, Richard, danakillsu, vezo

xvart.

[xvart]

That being said, yes we must assume the scum have fake claims

Why must we?

Because it would be foolish to blindly accept every claim given. The best position is a skeptical position. What is the alternative?

I'm not sure I really buy this answer. Being foolish and blindly accepting claims is irrelevant to the assumption that the moderator provided fake names to scum.

I said fake claim cause I thought he was scum with CMAR. After what axel said I come to think I might be wrong.

No; you said obvious fake claim, which is independent of other people and their alignments.

FYI - I will have Limited Access from Friday, June 25th through Thursday, July 1. I will be on a cruise for my anniversary and I plan on signing on occasionally to stay caught up, but won't be posting a ton.

xvart.

[xvart]

I find the timing and the massive amounts of posts recently by CMAR to be especially damning. I want him to answer why he didn't claim yesterday with his "Oh shit rereading post."

1) In the mini, scum were given the ability to PM the mod for a fake role claim, with abilities and flavour text. In fact, the fake claims were often consistent with the real claims (e.g., both "fake" Jon and "real" Samwell having references to the Night Watch having a stake in King's Landing). I see no reason to think it would be different now. CMAR would have needed to have asked for one right at the beginning of the game to fit with his breadcrumbs, though.

Unless he was waiting until now to get the pm from the mod with his mod-created fake claim for the flavor, which is why there was a delay in the response.

Potential vig targets: CMAR, Richard, danakillsu, vezo

Forgot about Kleedrac/Budja on this list.

xvart.

[xvart]

Back in the states. Will be posting later this afternoon once I get back home.

xvart.

[xvart]

Playing catchup here, so sorry if I'm redundant in some areas. First, though, I'm happy to see more people are realizing the danakillsu scum idea. I felt like I was taking crazy pills yesterday hammering away on that case. I agree with everything that has been added to that case since the start of day.

Finally, the way that dana has done nothing but scream "NO U! U MISREP ME! YOU HAVE NO EVIDENCE! LALALA" ever since I started my case on him just makes my case stronger.

And this is exactly what he was doing D1 when I was grilling him.

Vote: danakillsu

The fact that we managed to get rid of a Mafia Godfather is fantastic news for the town.

HI THERE MR SCUM HOW IS YOUR BLATANT SCUMTELL TODAY?

lol. Agreed. It is so obvious that having a NK'ed godfather is good news; anyone that needs to announce that is just looking for town points.

There is nothing, and I repeat, nothing wrong with the death of a Mafia Godfather. As a matter of fact, town should be glad that we have a Godfather dead. So tell me, what is so wrong about that quote you've made?

Your over the top response is mildly concerning, too. The fact that you are dissecting your own statement into a multi-facet counter argument is scummy, like you need to try extra hard to make everyone realize that it isn't scummy to be glad a godfather is dead; especially when there is no immediate follow up or even an attempt to root out some of those connections. I would think a town person would be more interested in proving their observation than wasting time defending

how town

the original claim was.

Also, I like the what IDI is saying here regarding SSBF.

My reason for defending Benmage was not because I thought Benmage was pro-town, but because I at the time thought I doubt it's case was pretty poor.

I think I asked this before but I don't remember the answer. I'll look back later after I'm caught up, but did you think IDI was scummy? Do you always defend people who aren't

necessarily town

when pretty poor cases are presented?

The reason for that Random Vote was because he played very well as a scum in Newbie 934. That vote was to rest assure I would not overlook him again. I'm glad I didn't, as he did flip scum.

More patting on the back. How does an RVS vote signify that you won't overlook him again? Did you think Raivaan would take that vote seriously as "OMG I better watch out! SSBF has outted me!"

Overall:

Give me

one

good reason to keep him around. Just

one

.

Because he is not you or danakillsu?

He has been scummy all over the place and he needs to die ToDay. Unless vezokpiraka improve his game Day 2, this stance will stay.

So you believe that Vezo can still redeem himself? I never understand it when people say that someone has been sooo scummy all over the place but that might change depending on future play.

I think SSBF is town (gut), though the case is convincing (head).

Just like you thought Raivaan was town?

Also, before Raivann's flip, your read on dana was town. So town in fact that you stated your town read on dana in no fewer than

nine

posts yesterday.

And, I specifically asked on at least three separate occasions where Drippereth town read was coming from, all of which were ignored. My thinking, because there was no evidence to support a dana-town read and trying to concoct a town case on dana would look

super

scummy and contrived.

We're working on Percy case but it probs won't be up for a few days.

Working on a Percy case because you don't want to contribute to the cases on your scumpals?

Has

anyone

read my case on CSL? Anyone at all? It's not just a lurker lynch. It's a lot like the case on danakillsu, except my wagon has butterflies and rainbows!

Yes, and I agree with you. I think your records here about the wagons being in a dead heat and the backpeddling is the most telling. Unfortunately, we only have one lynch and I am more convinced that danakillsu and SSBF are scum than CSL, so that is where my vote is staying; but this is definitely worth pressing.

CSL

- any response to any of Mina's posts?

At this point, I'll vote to lynch danakillsu or SSBF. Coming in a close second: CSL. Needs more pressure: Drippereth.

xvart.

[xvart]

Soooo how long can I keep this lurking/active lurking going?? How have I not been lynched yet ....I just finished catchinup the end of D1...what a mess...

I do not like this post at all. It looks to me like a preemptive acknowledgement for future reference if a case ever gets built on Benmage. Any case that might be built would most certainly include lurking D2 and now he has a post saying he realizes his active lurking.

Vote me all you want. I usually get lynched all the time, actually.

I dislike this post as well.

Don't lynch me because I always get lynched. It's my meta!

Note to self: ISO someone first before calling them lurkerscum.

Back peddle much? And at the weakest rebuttal regarding your original claim?

I understand why dana and SSBF are getting votes, but do you think that only the VIs and poor debaters are scum while all the strong reasonable players are town? In a game with multiple factions, it's easy for scum to genuinely scumhunt.

Are you saying that you think dana and SSBF are VI/poor debaters?

No, you did not directly say that. But the "very convincing argument" is all about bullying people into getting onto one of those two wagons. And we are not at that point in the Day yet.

A game I played with LynchMePlz recently ended and I recall him being pretty annoyed at/aggressive about lulls in the game.

also side note, why is LmPls green?

You're right, he replaced Paranoia. So why did Raivann want to cast aspersions on an insignificant player that no one noticed? For town cred, because that player is prob scum.

LynchMePls is town. Read his posts. Shining beacon of townie-ness, every single one of them.

Then why aren't Cow, Richard, Miku, and vezo green as well since you claim them town in your wagon analysis post? Furthermore, how can you claim Vezo is town and then claim Vezo is scummier than SSBF? For the record, I could see Richard being green due to his claim and the flip of Loras; so you think unconfirmed LMP is more town than nearly confirmed Richard?

Your wagon analysis seems pretty subjective and manipulated.

FoS: Drippereth

xvart.

[xvart]

Drippereth? Any comment on being jailkept last night?

xvart.

[xvart]

Or if they are scumbuddies.

xvart.

[xvart]

I like dana's answer, but now I think about it, he could be a scum jailor.

The only way to find out if he's telling the truth is to lynch him, tbh.

UNVOTE; VOTE: danakillsu

If my math is correct, he be at L-2?

No it's not.

Learn to read. He had eight, then Benmage placed a vote on him, then I did, and it's 12 to lynch.

I think he meant it's not the only way to tell if he's speaking the truth; and your justification is terrible.

xvart.

[xvart]

@xvart - why do you like dana over SSBF?

I wouldn't be heartbroken if we lynched SSBF today as opposed to danakillsu; but I think my preference for dana can largely be attributed to my feelings for him being scum yesterday when yesterday I had a neutral read on SSBF. Dana's voting record yesterday just screams scum to me and his argument focusing on us not being able to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that he is scum is scum-city. He's trying to argue the semantics and logistics instead of defending his behavior. Those are two pretty solid scumtells in my book.

I stabbed CSL,he claimed VT. I was just bummed when i saw the stabs weak effects, it would have been a cool mechanic as a instant-kill

Hmmm... This is interesting. What do you mean you were bummed when you saw the stab's "weak effects"? Did you not notice this until after you stabbed CSL? And I would hardly consider the stab being weak. If CSL is scum PR then it is hardly weak because we negate his ability to vote manipulate and remove his PR abilities. It's only weak because you targeted an alleged VT.

xvart.

[xvart]

dana is clearly scum.
the only way CSL got wounded is because people from dana's scum team stabbed him. This just proves that dana is scum.

So you think Percy, Thor, LychMePlz, Rifka Viveka, MagnaofIllusion, and Mikujin (maybe) are all on dana's scum team?

If I was scum, I would have a fakeclaim of Tulley, Jailkeeper, and would have to give someone's name, so I would give the name of the player whom I had called a townie the most, which is the same person. So either way, I would say the same thing. How does saying it make me scummier?

WIFOM much? Once again, similar outcomes by scum and town does not make you auto-town. If anything, you agree that your claim is easily likely to be a scum fakeclaim.

Also, LMP is still scum.

Please provide more information or link to the place where this case is presented or made obvious.

However, the things I have said are NOT inconsistent. I thought Raivann was scummy, but didn't make that very obvious. I asked everyone why they were voting for him INSTEAD of Kleedrac, with the implication that Kleedrac was a better lynch. The responses I got convinced me that Raivann was scummier than I originally thought.

So what does that say now that Kleedrac/Budja flipped town and Raivann flipped scum?

xvart.

[xvart]

Unsight I want you to answer his questions too please.

And I want you to answer my question in post 1170.

Vezok doesn't active lurk. He just doesn't like to make cases so far in the game.

You don't like to make cases as the game progresses? Or you just don't like to make cases thus far in this game?

Number 1 scum: vezokpiraka
Votes for Raivann, unvotes him because of his claim, even though he thinks it's fake, then votes for someone else, while saying Raivann's still probscum but he might be wrong. Wow.

Vote: Vezokpiraka

Oh, yeah, but THIS. This is why I had a scum read on vezo. I can't convince Elli... but I think that's scum knowing the claim is fake.

Vote: Vezokpiraka

Agreeing with your scumbuddy that you have a magical town read on that nobody else seems to understand?

xvart.

[xvart]

Is it just me, or is vezo at this point obv-Joffery from a Lannister-type scum group or Stannis from a Melisandre-type scum group? Claims "next in line to throne", then retracts the following day with a character so far from next in line, it's laughable. As much as I was reading vezo as super VI, this whole claim-and-retract business makes me think that a scum buddy slapped him down overnight and he got stuck with a crappy fake claim.

Unvote. Vote: vezo.

I'm starting to think the same thing. I'm wondering if Vezok might have confused his original role with a fake claim. Actually an heir like ML mentioned but had the fake claim of Meena. And the claim premature claim. Something is not right here. Correct me if I am wrong, flavor wise, but in the Seven Kingdoms daughters aren't heirs to the throne, right?

You do realize that my first post with the throne was in RVS.

As mentioned, you were obviously out of the RVS stage when you claimed heir to the throne. So saying nothing matters in RVS is irrelevant regardless if the statement about RVS is true or not.

I was scum in that game, if anyone is looking for a good laugh.

Nice contribution. You actually want to help out?

Okay, then.

xvart

, do you disagree that danakillsu and SSBF are VIs?

-That said, I suppose calling dana and SSBF "VIs" is a bit unfair considering the competition...

I do (disagree). I find VI's generally across the board frustrating but I do not find SSBF or dana frustrating to that extent. Up until recently, Vezok has been frustrating (and he still is, but now I'm sensing some scumminess underneath that).

xvart.

[xvart]

Liking this post by Mikujin, especially the exploration of SSBF/Drip/dana connections.
Still need to re-read SSBF in full. At the moment, gut is telling me that SSBF's interactions with danakillsu and Drippereth are scummy. Here's a post from more than two weeks ago:

Right now, I think danakilllsu is possible, but I haven't searched for connections yet. After my case on vezokpiraka, I will get working on that.

... and especially considering the big deal he made out of exploring the connections, the fact that he hasn't looked into this is looking pretty damning right now. All he's said on the case has been:

Obviously, you were pushing Kleedrac harder then Raivann Day 1. There are numerous evidence supporting that you are scums and I believe the case. You said that having Town-Kleedrac/Budja is worse then Town-Raivann. Guess who flipped town and who flipped scum?

What "numerous" evidence is there, and when did you start to believe the case? The last two sentences are also .

I had forgotten about that. Let's hear it SSBF.

xvart, I've already said that I have nothing more to say until dana is lynched.

Do you think that dana is the only scum member left in this game?

xvart.

[xvart]

Nope, but there's no use in going after two or more people at the same time when there is a clear wagon in the lead and only one lynch to be had per day.

Yes, we can't force reactions or get people to weigh in on other things because that would make the scumhunting to easy in future days, right?

xvart.

[xvart]

Either way, although I'm uneasy about I doubt it, I agree with him that I'd rather leave dana alive to eat a nightkill. Hey, scum! The protown jailkeeper just revealed. Even better, if you're being sincere about your opinions in the thread, at least 75% of you think dana is scum. And if you're a Greyjoy and dana isn't one of your buddies...well, don't you want the Lannister roleblocker flip to distract everyone from looking for Raivann's buddies? Of course, it's probably too late for this plan to work, since everyone in the game has vocally declared how much they want to lynch him.

Actually, this is an interesting point. I'm going to think on this.

Also the promised case on Percy that never came seems like it might have some scum motivations. Take a strong stand against the Hand to set yourself up for WIFOM "Would I have been so anti-Percy if I were scum?"

Yes, and I'm starting to think that the disagreement among hydra heads is a little

too

convenient. It seems to me like the Percy case when the other two wagons were taking off was a distraction that was never able to get to fruition. If anything, I almost wonder if it was a case that was supposed to look like genuine scumhunting that would never take off, giving Drippereth town cred while not instigating a lynch. At least in my opinion, I couldn't see a Percy bandwagon going anywhere today. Drippereth has been repeatedly ignoring nearly all (if not all) questions posed to them by me.

By the shear volume of times I have asked Drippereth about their read on dana I believe there is a connection there. Either their town read on dana was complete bullshit and they can't possibly back it up or they don't want to defend their buddy when he is getting closer and closer being lynched. Either way, the behavior is scum-city.

xvart.

[xvart]

Wow. Benmage goes on a posting spree... Regardless, it's hammer time.

xvart.

[xvart]

Step Forward

I see no good reason to try and clear a townie with this action.

No point to me stepping foward. I suggest Percy.

How about you let the mob decide that? Also, I appreciate your most recent contribution; I only hope that expecting that level of play will continue throughout this day?

Vote: SSBF

xvart.

[xvart]

Good enough for me. If you'd claimed something other than Sandor I would have gone after you. As it is I'm dubious because Joffrey turned out to be scum but we can deal with that later.

Yes, does anyone remember when he leaves King's Landing? Is it

Clash of Kings

or

Storm of Swords

. Also, "hacked to pieces" could be flavor around The Hound's ferocity. But yes, we could figure this out after Percy gets buried.

Also, his "Tell me how many shots you have!" question is scummy to the maxxxxxx, and his first question of the day is just so weird.

@SSBF

: Why did you ask whether I can facilitate a double-lynch?

I think SSBF should be our target for Investigation. I think it will provide much more useful information to the town than an investigation on me.

Post vig claim this almost reads as trying to hunt someone he knows will flip scum to get him out of hot water. I quickly skimmed Percy's ISO and there is relatively little in terms of actual substance referencing SSBF other than giving props to other people's arguments or finds, an occasional question or follow up (possible coaching).

1. How many times are you able to shoot? I ask this because you claimed the role, but have not used it during Day 1 or Day 2.

Do you want to know so you know if you need to kill him tonight or not?

Locke - why did you pick diddin N1?

xvart.

[xvart]

Unvote

More coming later.

xvart.

[xvart]

As I was browsing this thread today, I found something peculiar.

Every page I read, I found at the bottom that SSBF was on the active list.

I expected a huge post by him, but no.

Activelurker = scum!

Vote: SSBF

DIESCUMDIE

Also, Percy's flip was surprising. I had him pegged as town. Whoever shot him, good job!

Woah. Isn't this like calling the kettle black? You are accusing someone of active lurking and then you go off on not knowing who killed Percy, congratulating them, and not seeing the last few posts saying "hold off on the SSBF votes?" And the cheerleading...

With that thought while withholding my SSBF vote:

Vote: CSL

Regarding the cop investigation scan, the scummiest person should be investigated while the second scummiest should be lynched and vice versa.

I disagree. I think the scummiest person should be lynched and the second scummiest or even someone moderately scummy should be investigated.

So take back what I said about the Greyjoy kill being blocked.

But drowning sounds more like a Greyjoy kill flavor to me. They worship the drowned god, etc. Since there is only one drowned kill so far this game I would agree that the Greyjoy kill was blocked the first night. The hacked to pieces flavor is more of a renegade flavor, and the only person I can think of is the Hound, but again as was pointed out, he didn't part ways with the Lannisters until the end of the book, and if he was a Lannister aligned then that would give them two kills, which doesn't seem likely.

I know this post is more of flavor speculation, but there's a lot more I want to take a look at in Mina's account of the Knightguard QT, but that's going to have to wait until tomorrow.

xvart.

[xvart]

Has SSBF claimed yet? I am too lazy to go looking it up, but if he hasn't, I'd say that's what needs to happen next. And it would be great if that happened before we had to pick who to investigate.

No; he hasn't. And just by the fact that I think he would be at L-1 I think it is appropriate to get a claim.

Mina (or anyone in the Kingsguard) - when did LMP's invitation get sent out to the first group? That would be good to know for context in reading those that are in the Guard.

xvart.

[xvart]

I got it basically as soon as night started, iirc. He seemed to have most of his picks settled right away. Except for jvw

Thanks, I now see that Mina said during N1. I was starting to wonder as I was ISOing you as to the nature of some of your interactions with Mina and being in the Kingsguard.

xvart.

[xvart]

First, does anyone on the Kingsguard have anything to add to Mina's account of the N1 transcription? Anything she missed or forgot to mention?

He

[Percy]

advises Raivann to shoot one of {danakillsu, SSBF, vezopiraka, CSL, Kinetic}. Considering he knew Raivann's kill was fake,

there is a high chance that one of the people on that list is his scumbuddy

(Caveat: since his targets were all group suspects, it's nothing conclusive). Says that four of them are better off vigged than alive, but that perhaps SSBF is better off keeping around for another day. (

I'd say this counter-intuitively makes SSBF a less likely Greyjoy. Would Percy bother to subtly defend a buddy when he knows the kill won't go through? But again, it's not conclusive either way.

)

What is the difference if he subtly defends SSBF in this way? The kill is not going to go through regardless so I don't see the problem of scumPercy saying anything. Unless SSBF dies later (which during N1 was not obvious, I think; SSBF starting raising big suspicion D2) it would have no effect on scumPercy since the kill wouldn't go through. Did he give any justification for keeping SSBF around?

2)

Hascow

says it's okay, he was also geeking out, more welcoming stuff, etc. He says he'd have to look at the game again to see who he'd pick as the seventh. Says we have a pretty good group so far, and that Raivann was a good choice whatever you thought of his play. Asks if we should trust each other to nameclaim or roleclaim, or if we should keep it a secret just in case there are scum in the QT.

(That rose a minor red flag at the time.)

This is concerning to me. I believe that scum have a greater benefit in having a name claim in the closed situation like the Kingsguard. If Cow is scum and has a fake claim he is essentially safe and has more knowledge of possibly spotting fake claims, or worse, fishing out power roled flavor (especially considering that he seems pretty knowledgeable about the flavor). I can't think of a benefit of town at that point to know everyone's name, especially under the pretext of "trusting each other."

@Mina: I understand your CSL case, I think it has a lot of merit, and I know you don't want us to forget it. That said, CSL is looking very unlikely to be the lynch right now. Why not help us and get behind dana or SSBF?

Mostly this. It's almost definitely not happening today, because I think SSBF is much worse, but if that breaks down for some reason, I'll gladly look closer at CSL. SSBF is just so incredibly scummy right now it's insane.

This strikes me as weak justification for not being on an alternate wagon to SSBF. I agree with Benmage about Cow not really having a solid case or being able to articulate it. I'm starting to believe that this wagon might have been just an alternative to either the CSL or the dana wagon; but more than likely the dana wagon since CSL was obviously not going anywhere. And, Cow doesn't even mention anything about dana; the offer to switch to either wagon is presented and he'll look at CSL (not dana, the other leading wagon) if the SSBF wagon breaks down.

Also the point Benmage raised about Cow active lurking and Cow coming back to say he wasn't "active lurking" but just not posting (lurking) is odd. Why split hairs about this unless he was trying minimize the perceived scummy behavior?

I think it is likely that Cow could be a Lannister. I do think that some of this evidence might be circumstantial, so I would support having the God's investigate Cow today. Cow, what town benefit do you think would have been gained for the KG to know everyone's role name or role?

xvart.

[xvart]

3) as of right now, me. I want your fears assuaged, and it seems like a bunch of other people want to be sure I'm town to pay more attention to my reads. Other than me, xvart. I don't have a clue what I think of him.

I'm the only person in the entire game that you have a neutral read on?

Because CSL was the one being discussed? I was already looking at dana due to him being the other leading wagon. I should think that would be obvious.

But, up until that point, you had made no comment to or about dana other than a self voting hand of the king comment. So, no, it wasn't obvious that you were looking at dana in addition to CSL.

Cow, what town benefit do you think would have been gained for the KG to know everyone's role name or role?

It locks them into a claim, whether rolename or role. Claiming something that, if you change it later, there are 6 others to call you out on is an incredibly powerful tool.

I don't think that tool would have been especially effective considering the claims we have gotten so far from people. And considering name claiming (and the reference to the GoT mini and the name claiming debacle there) was already thrown out the window before any of you were recruited is troubling to me. I don't see how if everyone name claiming is not being a good idea then how good idea for a smaller group of people to name claim.

xvart.

[xvart]

EBWOP (forgot to copy and paste from another tab):

@hasdgfas: Okay, wait a minute. You said that you would want to investigate someone you had no clue about. One of those people you want want to investigate is xvart, saying you had no clue about him. But then you put down a FoS on him. Putting down a FoS on a person indicates that you find the person suspicious in some way or form, so it kind of moots the point about you having no clue about xvart.

This is an awfully big stretch.

xvart.

[xvart]

EBWOP x2:
I believe Cow to be the best person to be inspected by the gods.

xvart.

[xvart]

Sorry peeps. I'll get a post up tonight sometime.

xvart.

[xvart]

First: props to the mods for the hilarious title.

Since I'm the most likely person to die today, I might as well claim:
I am Arya Stark, the Town Vigilante. I watched my father die and escaped to the wilderness. I was wild enough whe maids and septas tried to put me in dresses, but I have since gone feral. I have a sharp sword.

I am able to kill every Night and if successful, the person will die.

Night 1, I killed Raivann. I knew that he was lying about his claim and since I was the most suspicious of him, I decided that he needed to die. Night 2, I killled I doubt it due to gut feelings that he was scum. Something about him really didn't sit well with me.

I for one do not believe the claim. First, the AtE in the first sentence. Then, the whole I am able to kill every night and if successful, the person will die? No kidding? Sounds like some fluff added in to make it more credible. I suppose hacked to pieces could fit flavor wise, but it doesn't feel right. Are any of the people that die in the book by Arya's sword are hacked up? Arya seems more like the precision over brute force. From what I remember she is more of a one and done sort of sword fighter. I'm thinking more of a Mountain that Rides flavor.

Rifka, why did you light a candle for yourself?

This question is full of win with sprinkles. I think only myself and maybe one other player (Benmage?) even had Rifka on our 5-6 names we would be okay with investigating lists. Also, she's certainly felt like she was drifting in the middle of the pack overall as far as people's town/scum take on her. I'm not sure what prompted her trying to lead a charge for her own investigation.

This is a valid observation; especially the point about only being on two people's short list. I'll have to go back and read Rifka in ISO since Rifka hasn't really been on my radar.

I don't know how I feel about the whole Unsight/Benmage interaction, but I definitely think Unsight is looking scummier. Some interesting things have been pointed out.

Note: I have a couple doctor's appointments this week with a possible shoulder surgery on the horizon, so my posting will be less frequent with a possible short V/LA on the horizon.

xvart.

[xvart]

Reread Rifka; I don't like post 559 and I don't like post 1573. Post 559 isn't necessarily a scumtell. I think it could be a way of bussing a partner without fulling supporting the case. More of a fallback plan to make sure rifka was on the lynch. I really don't like the immediate self light candle, especially when only being fingered by a couple of people. But the rest of rifka's posts are not screaming scum to me, of either alignment.

Are you saying that dana couldn’t strongly argue against a link between himself and Raivann if it had been true? Because that’s a necessary requirement for you to identify that dana was being voted for the ‘wrong reasons’ without having inside knowledge.

The tell, as I see it, is when a scum is busted for something that he/she does not consider scummy. Busted for the wrong reasons. I don't see the necessity of having inside knowledge for this tell.

Question to everyone: how many scum do you think the Greyjoys/Lannisters have? We have 2 dead on each side right now, from 26 total

I'm guessing three or four for the Lannisters or Greyjoy's plus SSBF as the SK, depending on if they have any other PRs. I don't think they both have to be the same number, again, depending on if they have any PRs or not.

Regarding SSBF, I think it's pretty risky trying to direct a SK. He has no reason to follow along with us and if I was pretty much a confirmed anti-town faction with a near impossible way to win I would probably just start killing people to create the most chaos. I the people that are defending a SK because he killed a Lannister and Greyjoy? If I was the SK I would do the exact same thing, to try and buy town cred when I was forced to claim. Yes, he's helped us, but I don't think it is a safe assumption to think that is/was his primary objective.

Mina - how are you doing on the N2 QT paraphrase?

xvart.

[xvart]

Sorry everyone. Have been super busy with doctor's appointments and work. My plan is to look at Unsight and Macavitar later today and hopefully have something to contribute tonight or tomorrow.

I'll also need some V/LA coming up as I am having surgery a week from today.

V/LA: 7/10 - 7/13

(variable depending on how doped up I get on painkillers).

xvart.

[xvart]

Sorry again, peeps. I have been having a difficult time with this game due to my mild pain killers that have been dulling me down and having a hard time focusing on the multi-scum facet of this game, plus the large numbers.

This is mostly gut and partly based off of who is voting what.

Thor - could you explain what you mean by "based off of who is voting what"? I don't understand the context.

OMGUS is lame. I called you on being scum with SSBF day 1 and you're pushing my lynch harder than ever since SSBF was gathering votes proving the point so I have a better idea--lynch SSBF and his faketastic claim and lynch you when he flips scum.

Maybe I'm not seeing it, but this seems far fetched seeing as how there is little to suggest there is an entire third scum faction. The flavor suggests two: poisoning and drowning, both indicative of flipped scum. Hacked to pieces is certainly not flavorized to one of the main king forces in the books. I'm starting to think since you are pushing this third scum team so hard that you are just trying to appear to be scumhunting. I support the Unsight wagon and will vote once Mina gets the N2 paraphrase down.

I'm getting a little frustrated at the delay in the Kingsgaurd N2 QT. Especially considering there is apparently "juicy" stuff in it I think it would be good to have for consideration. The lack of it being posted is starting to appear scummy in my eyes. Cow - do you know what Mina was referring to with the juicy comment?

Unvote
Vote: Mina

I'll think about it. migwelloni was scummy and Kinetic did little to recitify that. diddin sounds towny, but I need to re-read his ISO to see if he's a good lynch or not.

Further evidence that SSBF is not innocent aligned.

Regardless of the lazy votes on Unsight, it's still not a bad lynch. The people who concern me are CSL, vezo and diddin, but all of them are probably not scum. At most I'd say two. So, meh.

I would support a miku lynch today still if people really aren't going to get behind Unsight. Or we could lynch one of the above three and let SSBF vig one out of the remaining two.

wtf? I can't make heads or tails out of this post in terms of your priorities. Unsight isn't a bad lynch but you don't sound convinced; yet you would support a miku lynch if the Unsight wagon fails? Sounds like you are just fencesitting for any possibility.

Unsightplease claim. If not I am voting you.

Vezo, you're already voting Unsight.

lulz.

1. He's scum and is part of the team that hacks stuff - we now control an entire team's kill targets and as soon as we lynch part of this hidden third team then we know SSBF is scum - win for town.
2. He's scum and isn't part of the team that hacks stuff - that team now controls when/if SSBF is lynched and they don't like him very much and have no reason to protect him - win for town.
3. he's unkillable at night and is a SK - we already suspect this as a possibility, and it has little to do with you calling him scum

Maybe I'm being dense, but I just don't follow the logic. What am I missing?

This is the best explanation I've seen for keeping SSBF alive. Despite my previous hesitations, I'm on board with this plan now.

xvart.

[xvart]

This is mostly gut and partly based off of who is voting what.

Thor - could you explain what you mean by "based off of who is voting what"? I don't understand the context.

I don't feel like going back and looking, but as I recall basically both CSL and vezo were voting for Unsight at that time and formed half the wagon, and people were talking like it was the runaway win wagon of the day. I didn't like having the wagon of the day 50% dictated by ruddy vezo's and CSL's lynch preference. Meanwhile Locke was on the Rifka wagon alone. I had said I had uneasy reads on both Rifka and Unsight - I chose Rifka partly because of who was voting for what lynch between those two wagons.

Thanks; that makes sense. The way it was phrased (voting what) was confusing to me because it gave me the impression that people voting for someone other than Unsight had something to do with it, too; and I wanted to know what that was.

wtf? I can't make heads or tails out of this post in terms of your priorities. Unsight isn't a bad lynch but you don't sound convinced; yet you would support a miku lynch if the Unsight wagon fails? Sounds like you are just fencesitting for any possibility.

lol, wut? I'm "fencesitting for any possibility" by stating that Thor's opposition to the Unsight wagon isn't all that founded and by saying that if the Unsight wagon were to fall apart, I'd still support the wagon of my other top suspects? That makes absolutely no sense. Additionally, my vote hasn't moved. Your comment is a pretty ridiculous reach of the imagination by any means.

Perhaps fencesitting was not an accurate description. I was more interested in what I perceived as confusion in priorities. You said there were lazy votes on Unsight, but the lynch would be okay. It seems you are suspicious of the lazy votes, but don't mind going forward anyway (you didn't question any of the lazy votes). Then you say if the mediocre wagon of laziness doesn't go through you will support a lynch on Miku. I just got the impression that you were going for any of the possible wagons and setting them up as failures since there was little conviction.

xvart.

[xvart]

I say that although Raivann

could

have been trying to indoctrinate a buddy into the Kingsguard, it's far more likely that we helpfully advised the Greyjoys into killing jvw instead of xvart.

Huh? Please elaborate. How/why did you think that the Greyjoy's were going to kill me?

xvart.

[xvart]

Alrighty; the time has come. I'm having reconstructive surgery on my shoulder tomorrow morning. I will more than likely not be able to post at all tomorrow, and depending on the pain meds and how the surgery goes I might not be able to make a quality post for a couple days after. Since it is getting close to deadline, I've asked Eddard Stark if I can proxy my vote, and he said that was fine. So...

V/LA: August 10 - August 13
Proxy Vote to: Locke Lomora

I'll try and get a final post in tonight but I wanted to get this done now just in case.

xvart.

[xvart]

This was a great game; probably one of the most fun games I've played, if not the most fun. I also followed along closely the entire game after I was dead. Having an active graveyard is helpful in that regard. I also want to echo Elli's question about how either Macavitar or MoI would have felt had they been backstabbed and NK'ed.

I'm a little upset that I got killed because the Greyjoy's thought I was a doctor, but those are the breaks. My forgetting that dana was my scumbuddy through all of day one helped me out a ton (as evidenced by Mina's read on me) and probably would have helped more had I survived to later in the game.

I voted for stabbing CSL because, although unlikely, I wanted to try and get rid of support for dana's lynch by removing his vote. I knew it probably wouldn't work but that was my reasoning behind stabbing him.

I have no problem sharing the Lannister QT (if it hasn't already been shared; can't remember). Did the Greyjoy's share theirs?

Excellent flavor; but I think my absolute favorite thing was the thread titles. They were hilarious and very clever. This is probably one of the only games where I actually read every word of flavor.

xvart.

[xvart]

Nevermind, found the scum QT's in the roles.

xvart.

[xvart]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Budja kill. I felt terrible about that because it was such an awesome role. I felt like getting the kill was a curse because of my tunneling on dana all of D1 and if I didn't kill dana that person could out me; even if in a very convoluted way (this was discussed in the Lion's Den). Sorry, Budja! And sorry mods for killing such an awesome role.

Also, I really enjoyed playing scum with MacavityLock. I learned a lot from playing with him and look forward to being scum again should the gods put us together again.

xvart.

[xvart]

Thor - I assumed you were purposely leaving whether or not you were one shot ambiguous because that is what I would have done. Also, my knowledge of Budja I didn't think there would be multiple kill vigs in the game.

xvart.

[xvart]

Give me a better claim that I could have made under those circumstances.

I think the hider claim

might

have worked, although that could have been more suspicious since it would have been too convenient for a Lannister to be a Lannister hider.

xvart.

[xvart]

Oh yeah. Duh...

xvart.

[xvart]

3. The decision to NK xvart – I regret this most of any of the night moves we made. We knew xvart was on Locke. It would have been much better for Miku to claim he watched xvart to Locke and for us to push for a lynch on the basis of xvart being a scum role-blocker. Nightkilling either Mina or Cow would have been a much better choice, IMO.

I was "upset" about my NK, not because I'm selfish or anything, but because of the amount of confirmed or mostly confirmed townies and how the numbers were increasing in town's favor for eventual PoE. I thought the Greyjoy's possibly really blew it for either team to become victorious by not killing someone in the confirmed category. I believe we discussed in the Lion's Den about targets we would like to kill or would be better kills that night, but had to go for some of the obvtown to avoid problems in the future. When I got my pm telling me I sent a response to the mods ranting about how stupid the Greyjoy's were. Although I do recognize that it was getting to a point in the game where it was becoming a dangerous balancing act between scum possibly identifying each other and town identifying most likely scum (regardless of faction) through PoE.

Also, I mentioned this in the Dead QT and I don't think anyone responded (or at least I didn't notice) but I would like to hear thoughts on the balance between the Greyjoy's and Lannisters with the Watcher/RBer difference in team makeup. I personally would have rather have a watcher than a RBer because the watcher role is so much more aggressive in terms of overplay. Maybe watcher is just more conducive to my playstyle, but I'm curious what others think about this. The Greyjoy's caught two of us (Macavitar and me) with the watcher, and even if alignment wasn't obvious by the watch we still got busted.

xvart.

[xvart]

For future reference, a hydra that contradicts itself needs to be lynched asap. They are probably lying scum or VIs (and I hope I'm not considered the latter too much).

I don't think this is true at all.

While I wouldn't take it so literally, I don't think people should let hydras off the hook on contradictory posts/thoughts. It is just toooo convenient of a claim and if the team is playing together it shouldn't happen in the first place.

xvart.

[xvart]

Yeah, it would have been fun to be in the Kingsguard. I was glad to read that I was considered. A little boost to my self esteem. I think it would have been interesting to have a member of both scum teams in there to see how the game dynamics might have changed.

xvart.

[xvart]

Yes, because it can easily be faked to cover up some bone headed play by scum.

xvart.

[xvart]

Best scene: the attack on the wall. Favorite character: Jon Snow (duh). I'll have to think more on this because I can't remember what plot lines are in which books.

xvart.

[xvart]

yeah, but doesn't Dany just cruise around on her ship watching the dragons eat fish in SoS? Or does she also conquer the slaves and rally and start building her army in SoS? I don't see how flavorwise Dany can interact continuity wise with the Westeros characters. I think charcters should be able to be banished to the wall, or have a charcter that stays the execution or can limitedly send them to the wall (or something).

xvart.

[xvart]

Oh, and we can't forget the duel between the Red Viper and Ser Gregor

Yes. This.

xvart.